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 rks58
Joined: 1/28/2006
Msg: 1
What are Isreals new intentions?Page 2 of 2    (1, 2)

Deputy defence minister hints Israeli military strike on Iran a possibility
10.40.29 EST Nov 10, 2006
Canadian Press

JERUSALEM (AP) - Israel's deputy defence minister suggested in comments published Friday that Israel might be forced to launch a military strike against Iran's nuclear program - the clearest statement yet of this possibility from a high-ranking Israeli official.

"I am not advocating an Israeli pre-emptive military action against Iran and I am aware of its possible repercussions," Ephraim Sneh, a former general, told the Jerusalem Post daily. "I consider it a last resort. But even the last resort is sometimes the only resort."

Government spokeswoman Miri Eisin said Sneh's comments did not necessarily reflect the view of Israel's government or Prime Minister Ehud Olmert.

Olmert said he was confident in the U.S. handling of the international standoff over Iran's nuclear program, which the Bush administration and other countries say is a cover for developing atomic weapons. Tehran says the program is peaceful.

"I have enormous respect for President (George W.) Bush. He is absolutely committed," Olmert said in an interview on NBC's "Today" show. "I know that America will not allow Iran to possess nuclear weapons because this is a danger to the whole western world."

The United States and its European allies have proposed a raft of sanctions to try to curb Iran's nuclear development.

Israel sees Iran as the greatest threat to its survival. Iran's hardline president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, has frequently called for Israel's destruction, and Israelis do not believe his claims that Iran's nuclear program is meant to develop energy, not arms.

Israel crippled Iraq's nuclear program 25 years ago with an air strike on its unfinished nuclear reactor. Experts say Iran has learned from Iraq's mistakes, scattering its nuclear facilities and building some underground.

Sneh's tough talk is the boldest to date by a high-ranking Israeli official. Olmert and other Israeli leaders frequently discuss the Iranian threat in grave terms, but stop short of threatening Israeli military action.

Years of diplomacy have failed to persuade Iran to modify its nuclear program so it can't develop nuclear weapons.


So... Isreal is now openly discussing attacking Iran.

A bit odd given that thier strongest supporter now has to concern itself with it's own internal issues, what with control of the House and Senate wrested from the neo-cons and the Bush admin's legal clout limited.

Could it be an effort to prevent any wind-down of US troops in Iraq now that the public has made thier wishes clear and Congress is ready to consider a wind-down? Are they now getting nervous about thier position?

Could it be an offer to the neo-cons to allow them to make use of those obscure little loopholes in thier legislation by further destabilizing the middle-east (I'm the 'decider' and I decide that we need to stay in power a little longer for 'national security')?

And this coming close on the heels of back-peddling with the Palestinians and the offer of the Palestinian leader to step down.

Good cop, bad cop? Make a concession and then talk tough to avoid looking weak?

Curiouser and curiouser.
 kitsguy4u
Joined: 11/19/2005
Msg: 2
view profile
History
What are Isreals new intentions?
Posted: 11/10/2006 3:26:46 PM

"I have enormous respect for President (George W.) Bush. He is absolutely committed,"
Committed? he needs to be committed to an insane asylum.

This isnt good news. All an attack will do is create even more hatred towards israel and give proof to the people of Iran that their only way to prevent attacks is to HAVE a bomb. An attack would also cause even more foreign volunteers to flood into Iraq and increase the pressure on the USA to pull out of Iraq. It will also lead to an increase in terrorism as the entire muslim world will be watching. We have already seen the increase in terrorism around the world in response to the US war on Iraq. Im beginning to wonder if the only way for there to be any peace in the middle east is to hand a nuke to each country so there is a balance of power. Israel has nukes and would nuke any attacker. The arab nations might talk about nuking Israel but in reality they would not. They would kill to many palestinians and since Israel is so small the radiation would affect the neighboring arab countries. MAD worked between the USA and the Soviets so maybe its the only way for the middle east.


I still think it would work out better if all sides came together and discussed ways for Iran to get electric power that would be acceptable. Maybe the US can hitch up the grid in Iran to one of their reactors. Just need a really long extension cord. That way Iran has electric power and no nukes. It would be cheaper for the US to give them free electricity than spend the money on another war.


 Tolstoyist
Joined: 3/22/2006
Msg: 3
What are Isreals new intentions?
Posted: 11/10/2006 5:04:08 PM
Israel should abandon their campaign to control Judea/Jerusalem and move to the US and Canada. I like the assessment of the Neturei Karta.

www.nkusa.org

Neturei Karta opposed the establishment of and retain all opposition to the existence of the so-called "State of Israel"!

Neturei-Karta is the Aramaic term for "Guardians of the City. The name Neturei-Karta originates from an incident in which R. Yehudah Ha-Nassi (Rabbi Judah the Prince) sent R. Hiyya and R. Ashi on a pastoral tour of inspection. In one town they asked to see the "guardians of the city" and the city guard was paraded before them. They said that these were not the guardians of the city but its destroyers, which prompted the citizens to ask who, then, could be considered the guardians. The rabbis answered, "The scribes and the scholars," referring them to Tehillim (Psalms) Chap. 127. (Jerusalem Talmud, Tractate Hagiga. 76c).

The name was given to a group of Orthodox Jews in Jerusalem who refused (and still refuse) to recognize the existence or authority of the so-called "State of Israel" and made (and still make) a point of publicly demonstrating their position, the position of the Torah and authentic unadulterated Judaism.

The group was founded in Jerusalem, Palestine in 1938, splitting off from Agudas Yisroel. Agudas Yisroel was established in 1912 for the purpose of fighting Zionism. Gradually lured by money and honor they sold out to the "Golden-Calf" (see Exodus, XXXII) of Zionism. Those who wanted to maintain their faith and continue the struggle against Zionism, dissociated themselves from Agudas Yisroel and associated parties.

Over the years, a number of Neturei Karta activists and followers settled outside of Palestine. Some of the reasons that these individuals abandoned the country in which they and their families had lived for many generations (having lived there many years prior to the establishment of the illegitimate so-called "State of Israel") include; ideological refusal to live under the illegitimate heretical "Israeli" regime, them being exiled by the Zionist government for their insistence of remaining independent of the illegitimate heretical regime or them being unable to live a normal family life due to them and their families being persistently harassed, repeatedly incarcerated and many times even physically tortured by the Zionist police and agents. This dispersion resulted in the emergence of various Neturei Karta establishments on the broader international scene. These establishments include synagogues, educational institutions, publishing houses and organizations. The establishments in New York include three synagogues in Brooklyn (Boro Park and Williamsburg), three upstate, and organizations include the Friends of Jerusalem in NY, NY.

Neturei Karta is not - as is often alleged - a small sect or an extremist group of "ultra-orthodox" Jews. The Neturei Karta have added nothing to nor have they taken anything away from the written and oral law of the Torah as it is expressed in the Halacha and the Shulchan Aruch. The Neturei Karta are fighting the changes and inroads made by political Zionism during the past one-hundred odd years. Guided by the rabbis of our time and under the inspiring leadership of the late Reb Amram Blau, the Neturei Karta refuse to recognize the right of anyone to establish a "Jewish" state during the present period of exile.

There are those who wish to play down the Neturei Karta and its' Torah-true beliefs. This has been attempted many a time by stating that the Neturei Karta is a minority group and that compared to other Jewish groups the Neturei Karta aren't even noticeable in terms of number.

The name Neturei Karta is a name usually given to those people who regularly pray in the Neturei Karta synagogues (Torah Ve'Yirah Jerusalem, Torah U'Tefillah London, Torah U'Tefillah NY, Beis Yehudi Upstate NY, etc.), study in or send their children to educational institutions run by Neturei Karta, or actively participate in activities, assemblies or demonstrations called by the Neturei Karta. Although it is true that the number of families which could be classified as Neturei Karta members or activists per-se is relatively small (several thousand), the number of Orthodox Jews who believe in the anti-Zionist ideology which Neturei Karta is known for, number in the hundreds of thousands.

Neturei Karta oppose the so-called "State of Israel" not because it operates secularly, but because the entire concept of a sovereign Jewish state is contrary to Jewish Law.

All the great rabbis who in accordance with Jewish Law opposed Zionism at its inception did not do so merely due to consideration of the secular lifestyles of the then Zionist leaders or even for their opposition to Torah heritage and rejection of its values and practices, but due to the fact that the entire concept of a Jewish state is in direct conflict with a number of Judaism's fundamentals.

Condemnation of and segregation from anything connected to or affiliated with the so-called modern day "State of Israel" is based on the Talmud, the key fundamental doctrine of the Oral Tradition handed down by G-d to Moses on Mt. Sinai. The Talmud in Tractate Kesubos (p. 111a), teaches that Jews shall not use human force to bring about the establishment of a Jewish state before the coming of the universally accepted Moshiach (Messiah from the House of David). Furthermore it states that we are forbidden to rebel against the nations and that we should remain loyal citizens and we shall not attempt to leave the exile which G-d sent us into, ahead of time.

Jews are not allowed to dominate, kill, harm or demean another people and are not allowed to have anything to do with the Zionist enterprise, their political meddling and their wars.

Neturei Karta forbid any participation with the so-called "State of Israel" or any of its subsidiaries. Neturei Karta followers do not participate in "Israeli" elections nor do they accept any aid from "Bituach Le'Umi" (Social Security), and the educational institutions of the Neturei Karta reject any form of financial support from the so-called "Va'ad HaYeshivos" (equiv. to Department of Education).

The Zionist state employs a set of chief rabbis and uses religious parties to ornament their state with a clerical image. They study the Torah with commentaries altered to clothe the words with nationalistic nuances. Our rabbis have countless times proclaimed that it matters little which individuals or parties govern in the Zionist state because the very establishment and existence of the state itself is to be condemned and to be deplored.

The true Jews remain faithful to Jewish belief and are not contaminated with Zionism.

The true Jews are against dispossessing the Arabs of their land and homes. According to the Torah, the land should be returned to them.

Neturei Karta deplore the systematic uprooting of ancient Jewish communities by the Zionists, the shedding of Jewish and non-Jewish blood for the sake of Zionist sovereignty and the Neturei Karta favor a peaceful transition from the present Zionist rule to a non-Zionist entity.

According to Judaic Law the Torah has the last word. There is no such thing as a majority of Jews who happen to be Jewish by birth who can alter Torah Law in any way. In fact even the greatest rabbi or as Maimonides writes, "even the greatest prophet" [referring actually to an authentic prophet], has no right to distort or amend even one letter of the Torah.

Rabbi Blau stated shortly before his death that the acceptance by the United Nations of the Zionist state as a member state constituted a grave injustice to the Jewish people. Neturei Karta hope that this great error will be corrected at the earliest opportunity. The Neturei Karta regret that the Zionist state has usurped the holy name of Israel and that the Zionists so often pretend to speak in the name of the Jewish people and assume the right to act on our behalf. Only those rabbis who have not been affected or influenced by the poison of Zionism, can be considered the spiritual leaders of today's Jewry.

The world must know that the Zionists have illegitimately seized the name Israel and have no right to speak in the name of the Jewish people!

 Tolstoyist
Joined: 3/22/2006
Msg: 4
What are Isreals new intentions?
Posted: 11/10/2006 10:38:23 PM
Well as a Christian Im inviting the Israelis into my backyard, my frontyard or any part of the yard they would like. I know they disagree as do many of my fellow Christians but the only "Israel" I will recognize is a Theocracy. What so-called "Israel" has now is merely an illusion.
 Tolstoyist
Joined: 3/22/2006
Msg: 5
What are Isreals new intentions?
Posted: 11/25/2006 2:29:18 PM

The American Religious Right talks a good game, but the fact of the matter is with Israel it truly is "not in my back yard."

Those nice little Baptist -- their attitude: Jews? Homeland? Put it over there.

I also would add that I reject the nationalistic concept of a so-called "Jewish Homeland". Most Jews live outside of Israel and seem very content to do so.
 mungojoe
Joined: 11/15/2006
Msg: 6
What are Isreals new intentions?
Posted: 11/26/2006 1:59:54 PM
absolutely nothing can ever come out of it, besides setting the whole region on fire and possibly threatening the existence of israel itself.

Much of the history of Israeli foreign relations appears to have been predicated on achieving exactly this though.

Maintaining instability in the arabic nations (and Iran) helps to ensure a level of military imbalance in the Israeli favour. This instability, which appears to represent a threat to Israel but, in fact, does not helps to keep the flow of advanced weapons, technology and money unrestricted. The instability also minimizes the ability of those nations to develop the kinds of advanced technology that may prove to be actually threatening.

I doubt that the political leadership (which, despite changing in name, has never truly changed in policy) is prepared to tolerate even the mere ability of arab nations to develop nuclear technology even if the technology is not used for military purposes. Israel's position as the sole nuclear capable state ensures its absolute dominance in the region and allows it to do as it pleases with regard to the Palestinians (even if US economic and military support wanes).

When Israeli leaders begin to speak of an option as "the last resort" it often becomes the first action taken.

Olmert's praise of Bush and America's "commitment" strikes me as a warning that they will drag the US into eliminating Iran's abiltiy to use nuclear technology in any way even if they have to drag them 'kicking and screaming'.
 mungojoe
Joined: 11/15/2006
Msg: 7
What are Isreals new intentions?
Posted: 11/26/2006 5:32:45 PM
According to IRNA, Iran is not seriously concerned about Israel's intentions. Yesterday, Iran's Secretary of Supreme National Security Council (SNSC) Ali Larijani, in response to questions about whether or not the US or Israel might attack Iranian nuclear facilities in order to damage its' nuclear program, stated:

"Israel is not in the position to attack us either, things they say are sheer slogans, we do not take such slogans seriously and if they do that (attack Iran) they will receive a decisive response."

He prefaced this by stating that the US would not dare to attack Iran and such a threat is not being taken seriously by Tehran since the US is not in a position to take on another major military adventure.

He certainly is correct about the US's weak military position (regarding yet another major offensive operation in yet another country) but I am not so convinced regarding Israel's willingness to go forward on the consideration that the US would have no choice but to become involved if it went even half-way badly for them,
 arri
Joined: 10/5/2005
Msg: 8
What are Isreals new intentions?
Posted: 11/26/2006 6:42:40 PM
Israel has been trying to set the US against Iran for sometime now. During the 33 day war, all that they yakked on TV was how Iran is responsible.

Right now, even the US is unable to threaten or frighten the Iraniand. All they can do is talk and try to make a deal. Israel is just being Israel. They know better.
 NoahCoast2Coast
Joined: 1/30/2005
Msg: 9
What are Isreals new intentions?
Posted: 11/26/2006 9:03:57 PM
I dont know how North Americans think they can really comprehend Israel's intentions. After all, Israel and it's citizens are represented by a PrimeMinister and officials of their own, no one wants to be fighting I figure, but eventually when you are under attack you're under alot of pressure to try and live and survive or end the violence. I think it's good to know that the government of Iran is trying to build a nuclear bomb, and that we know that extremists attack using human shields such as innocent citizens and children and take desperate measures to hurt the public, we know that Isreal has a good intelligence/defence force and Americans are known to help defend Israel. So as a Torontotonian, I'm not sure what Israel's new intentions are, but I'm pretty sure (hope) the world forces are trying to stop nuclear weaponry, and and on the intelligence/quiet ops with stopping extremist plots, cause I dont want to die in the smog and fallout.
 Tolstoyist
Joined: 3/22/2006
Msg: 10
What are Isreals new intentions?
Posted: 11/26/2006 9:26:00 PM

Israel and the US should should take out all military and nuclear targets in Iran, Syria and Hezbolla in Lebanon at the same time. While they're at it they should retake the Gaza Strip and relocate the arabs to Cairo. Israelis' want peace the arabs want war. Israel has to to what it needs to do to survive. The UN, EU, US can't be counted on to protect Israel.

Why is it the US obligation to defend Israel? Is it in the US foreign interest to alienate one billion Muslims in order to enable a territorial land grab by 5 million Israelis under the fallacious notion that Jews need their own homeland? If this were valid then why dont most Jews live there? This insane campaign to possess the region has brought the world to the brink of armageddon, escalates more antisemitic sentiments and threatens the lives of millions of children situated there with potentially more devastation. Millions of Jews live happily outside of Israel and it would be a sane means to atone for the atrocities committed over 60 years in the name of nationalism.

www.nkusa.org
 mungojoe
Joined: 11/15/2006
Msg: 11
What are Isreals new intentions?
Posted: 11/27/2006 5:42:54 PM
I think that's great, How about the UN resoultions that are pro-Israel that are being violated, let's ignore those, how about the fact that misiles are landing from Gaza instead of negotiations, another great point, or the fact that the palestinian government has it's goal of eliminating the state of Israel... We could of course not ignore these things and try to find a solution... no?

This is nice and all but, I have to wonder what this has to do with Israel's veiled (or not so veiled, depending on how you look at it) threat to strike Iran.

While it is true that the Palestinian issue is a primary source of tension between Israel and the rest of the middle east the issue at hand is Israel's willingness to destroy Iran's nuclear industry, probably killing thousands or even tens of thousands with the contamination that will most likely follow any real effort to eliminate the program.

It should be remembered that Iran's facilities are dispersed, hardened and, in many cases, underground (a lesson they learned from the Israeli strike against the Osirak facility). A 2000 pounder or two aren't going to do the job this time and a successful attack is likely to spread contaminated dust and debris over a rather large cumulative area. Is this considered a 'fair trade' in Israel for maintaining its' ability to wipe out entire countries unopposed?
 Internetdatingpariah
Joined: 10/17/2004
Msg: 12
What are Isreals new intentions?
Posted: 11/28/2006 9:01:46 AM
Hmmmm....I hear Israel's next move is to form a nation inside of Canada like Quebec.
 arri
Joined: 10/5/2005
Msg: 13
What are Isreals new intentions?
Posted: 11/28/2006 9:11:07 PM
Iran has no intention of developing a bomb. If that's what they wanted to do, they could have done it 10 - 20 years ago. They have 6 - 7 reactors as it is. They could have withdrew from the NPT and started chemically separating the Plutonium from the spent rods.

What they want is the domestically developed comprehensive nuclear fuel life cycle program. Many many times harder to achieve than bomb making.


I sincerely believe that Iran is acting cocky because it has something BIG.


They just act like that because it's their nature. What they are really after is influence that they can turn into economic and political capital.
 mungojoe
Joined: 11/15/2006
Msg: 14
What are Isreals new intentions?
Posted: 12/10/2006 11:25:33 AM
It appears as though Israel has given us some more clarification on its' intentions.

Dec. 8, 2006 17:38 | Updated Dec. 10, 2006 2:20
Kaplinsky: Iranian bomb would threaten Europe too
By YAAKOV KATZ AND JPOST STAFF

Calling Teheran's race to obtain nuclear weapons an existential threat, Deputy Chief of General Staff Maj.-Gen. Moshe Kaplinsky said Friday that a nuclear Iran also threatens all of Europe.

"A nuclear Iran is a threat to Israel but can also effect the entire Middle East," Kaplinsky said during a meeting near Jerusalem. "A nuclear Iran will pose a threat way beyond Israel's borders, possibly even a threat to all of Europe."

"There is disagreement as to when their program will be operational, but we predict that Iran will achieve [nuclear weapons] capability in the near future," he said.

Kaplinsky also said Iran recently received a shipment of anti-aircraft missiles from Russia and was holding contacts with China regarding additional arms deals.

Discussing the Baker-Hamilton report, Kaplinsky said, "In my opinion, the strategy used and the way the United States decides to pull out of Iraq will have an effect on us and the entire region."

Also on Friday, Prime Minister Ehud Olmert spoke with Russian President Vladimir Putin about Iran's nuclear program and told Putin that he hoped the UN Security Council would vote to impose sanctions if Iran continued to flout the international community's demands that it stop its nuclear development, Army Radio reported.

The Jerusalem Post revealed earlier this week that long-range missiles and truckloads of advanced antitank missiles from Iran and Syria have been smuggled to Hizbullah in Lebanon over the past four months.

While the IDF destroyed most of Hizbullah's long-range missiles during the 34-day war in Lebanon this summer, including the Iranian-made Fajr and Zelzal, according to new intelligence obtained by the defense establishment, in the four months since the war ended, weapons convoys carrying short-range missiles, antitank missiles and long-range missiles have reached Hizbullah. Most of the convoys crossed into Lebanon from Syria at night.

Military Intelligence believes Hizbullah might use the Lebanese political instability as an excuse to launch attacks against Israel, not necessarily by renewing Katyusha rocket attacks - 4,000 rockets were fired at Israel during the war - but by firing antiaircraft missiles at intelligence-gathering aircraft that fly over Lebanon.

They seem to be hitting all the bases with this one.

Setting themselves up as the defender, not only of their own but, the whole Middle East and Europe too.

They even seem to be setting themselves in position to justify further action in Lebanon. Apparently they are declaring that shooting at spy planes over the sovereign territory of another nation (where they have no legal right to be) constitutes an attack on Israel itself even though it has not happened.

Rather a vague statement on Iraq, but obviously intended to reinforce a position in terms of what the US should do.

Sounds an awful lot like threatening to "throw gas on the fire" if things don't go their way.
 arri
Joined: 10/5/2005
Msg: 15
What are Isreals new intentions?
Posted: 12/10/2006 2:26:45 PM

Setting themselves up as the defender, not only of their own but, the whole Middle East and Europe too.


Doubt even the Brits are that dumb to buy into that. Rest of the Europe is very friendly with Tehran. They are not even playing along with the US in the security counsel anymore. Europeans, just like the Israelis, are looking at long-term.

1) Israel is worried that US might negotiate Israeli withdraw from the occupied territories as the cost of Iran helping with the Iraq mess.

2) Iran emerging as the big economic winner. That might add more international pressure on Israel to withdraw from the occupied territories.

The Iraqi civil war is changing Iraq's population demographics with people shifting and moving along their cultural lines, and interestingly enough, it appears to be what the Iraqi government also wants. Iraq with eventually fragment. Question is, what will happen then?

The northern Iraq is already autonomous and the south and eastern is becoming predominantly Shia with strong ties to Iran. The Kurds also have established their own right to control their oil revenues constitutionally.

Quite possibly, Kurdistan will lean closer to Iran to manage it's oil production, shipment and marketing and for security because of Turkey. Shia already hate the Americans. They will be happy to deal with Iran instead of Americans when they are gone.

Adding the oil production and reserves of Iran and Iraq, we are talking more oil than Saudi Arabia and a pretty good chunk of world's oil exports. That might force the US to lift it's unwavering support for Israel and insist on Israeli withdraw from occupied territories.
 occamsrazor
Joined: 11/6/2007
Msg: 16
What are Isreals new intentions?
Posted: 11/28/2007 8:09:10 PM
----------- S...u...r...v...i...v..a...l ---------------------
 scorpiomover
Joined: 4/19/2007
Msg: 17
view profile
History
What are Isreals new intentions?
Posted: 11/29/2007 6:30:37 PM
I feel sure that Palestinians will feel equally as concerned about American attempts to bomb Cuba, once Castro decides to build a nuclear facility capable of making nuclear bombs, and declares that he will "drive the Americans into the sea".
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 18
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History
What are Isreals new intentions?
Posted: 6/14/2013 6:48:04 PM

why bother relocating them to cairo. why not burn them alive and bulldoze their houses while they are sleeping. it'a more practical and you don't have to anger egypt in the process.
Well ... Zionists are good at doing things like that. They've got that down pat.




Iran has no intention of developing a bomb. If that's what they wanted to do, they could have done it 10 - 20 years ago. They have 6 - 7 reactors as it is. They could have withdrew from the NPT and started chemically separating the Plutonium from the spent rods.

What they want is the domestically developed comprehensive nuclear fuel life cycle program. Many many times harder to achieve than bomb making.



I sincerely believe that Iran is acting c0cky because it has something BIG.



They just act like that because it's their nature. What they are really after is influence that they can turn into economic and political capital.
Agree!
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