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 susan_cd
Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 34
Burqas etc.....What is your opinion? Page 3 of 3    (1, 2, 3)

they ignore the peacefulness and humanity that many religions Christian and non-Christian have brought to many, many people.


Just as many religions Christian and non-Christian ignore the atrocities commited in the name of their faith. This happens a lot nowadays with Islamic suicide bombers killing numerous bystanders & spokesmen for Islam saying that Islam is a faith of peace & the bombers aren't what Islam is really about.
 susan_cd
Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 36
Burqas etc.....What is your opinion?
Posted: 7/20/2010 7:19:55 PM

I see no one complain about Oprah or Wayne Dyer or a myriad of others who promote positive thinking and acting "as if" you have peace and you will have peace.


No complaint because I know what time Oprah's show is on, and what channel so I can choose to not watch it ( like I choose to not watch the various religious programs broadcast Sunday mornings).

Now if she started coming around knocking on my door to push her spiel, I'd complain


I think....(mind you thats just me) ...is that people are not opposed to hearing good things...they just are opposed to hearing them from God


Hmmm....

tempt, how long have you been hearing God speaking to you?

( memeo to self: if meeting tempt_your_kharma don't make eye contact)
 WillViking
Joined: 7/4/2010
Msg: 37
Burqas etc.....What is your opinion?
Posted: 7/22/2010 10:41:08 AM
I love a good burqa...lots of onions and lettuce, some tomato and cheese....oh and shrooms if available.......great BBQ'd too.
 susan_cd
Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 39
Burqas etc.....What is your opinion?
Posted: 7/23/2010 4:30:05 PM

"hear good things from God"....that references back to bringing up the Bible....which contains "good things from God".....which many people don't want to hear....TO REPEAT....don't want to hear it if it comes from the the Bible and from God...


But the Bible was written by humans, not by God, the Bible ( in it's present form) was edited & decided by a comittee which had a large collection of scriptures, gospels etc & picked & chose which to include & which to leave out & supress and is laced with mutually contradictory passages.


but are happy to get the SAME MESSAGES from Oprah (present company excluded)or some self proclaimed spiritualist


The difference here being that Oprah or the hypothetical spiritualist you mention actually exist. If God came & knocked on my door I'm pretty sure I'd listen.

But I'm not prepared to listen to a self-proclaimed messenger of God's word taking up my time to tell me their interpretation of said word.


AND lets just say for instance....for sake of argument that the JW's or the Mormons have the most important information for you that you could possibly imagine; THE MOST IMPORTANT INFO that will require your full attention and focus and comprehension to learn and know FOR YOUR OWN GOOD.....LETS JUST SAY >>>OK??
Then how do you want them to contact you??


a) who says I'd want them to contact me? Lots of people make decisions & do things every day that are definitely NOT for their good ( smoking comes to mind)

b) it would be their belief that it's for my own good, it may not be mine; I'msure the Bible thumpers thatgo around knocking on doors do it because they believe it's fo that person's own good

c)They can pray to their God & have God come to my door with the message

Accepting hypotheically that God existed, I'd be prepared to listen to God tell me something; I'm not prepare to have someone tell me they're God's middleman and tell me... that's like the Catholic church's ritual of having you confess your sins to the priest so he can intercede for you & getGod's forgiveness


You would think that since people are taking their personal time without getting paid and without any profit motive to come personally to your door...that...maybe..just maybe you might listen?? Yes??


Actually, no.

Why would you expect me to give up some of my time to listen to someone telling me a bunch of things I don't believe in in the first place?

Someone could come to my door to tell me about their having been abducted by aliens and to deliver the message of the aliens ( or the information I need tokeep from being abducted myself) without getting paid and without any profit motive, and I wouldn't listen to them either.

Would you, if as you stated "You would think that since people are taking their personal time without getting paid and without any profit motive to come personally to your door...that...maybe..just maybe you might listen??" ??
 susan_cd
Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 41
Burqas etc.....What is your opinion?
Posted: 7/24/2010 2:57:09 PM

1) Earlier you made reference that was meant as a put down of me, by suggesting that I hear voices from God....then you say that"if God came to your door" you would listen....so which is it ? are you crazy if see and hear voices from God or are you being really wise by saying you will only listen to good philosophical and spiritual things when they come directly from God coming to your door??


My comment about you hearing the voice of god was a tongue in cheek comment to bring some levity to the thread, and I figured you took it as such by your coomment regarding it
( you replied " Nice try suszy!! I didn't say "that I have been hearing God speak to me"
but I give you 2 points for trying to twist my words...LOL!!)

I figured your LOL meant you realized my post was in jest & not to be taken seriously; guess PoF needs a special font for sarcasm & non-serious comments.


then you say that"if God came to your door" you would listen....so which is it ? are you crazy if see and hear voices from God


I'd say that yes, if you hear voices from god you are crazy ( is crazy politcally correct?) at least to others, to the person hearing the voices they probably assume they're perfectly sane.


or are you being really wise by saying you will only listen to good philosophical and spiritual things when they come directly from God coming to your door??


I'd be prepared to listen to "god" if he she or it came to my door, I wouldn't be prepared to listen to someone assuming the role of "god's" messenger & delivering their spiel... particularly when I'm quite sure there could be a handful of such self-proclaimed messengers each delivering a different interpretation of the message.,

No middlemen/middlewomen please, if "god" wants me to get"his" message, "he" can deliver it personally.


NEXT in my hypothetical example...I stated in order to make my point....that it should be assumed that someone coming to your door has the most important information you could possibly need...(not from their perspective alone but assumed to be factual...for example , just say they had got some factual info that your house was going to explode soon)...then the question was "How would you want them to tell you??"


As I don't believe in god, I don't want themto tell me, is that clear enough for you?


You are telling that you will only listen if it comes from God himself


Yes.

For the sake of argument, assume god created us. That'd mean

1) He created us
2) people created religion
3) therefore believe in God, not religion. a person can be very spiritual without needing organized religion in there taking their percentage


What you are saying about the Bible is evidence of what someone has fabricated and distorted under what is called "critical thinking". Your points are excuses not reasons. They ignore massive evidence that suggests that the Bible is way much more than just another book written by men.


Oh? Post links ot this massive evidence you mention. Excuses not reasons? Looking thru history, how many people have suffered because someone found justification for that suffering in the Bible?

And what do you mean by "critical thinking", that gives it such a negative connotation? Questioning someone's faith & the Bible because there's no evidence to support their beliefs? If that's what you meant, then they won't have to face my "critical thinking" if they stay away from me.

As I posted earlier in this Msg, a person can have strong belief/faith in God, and none in organized religion... & the organized religions hate that.


Maybe if you stopped and asked one of those people who come to your door why it is they believe the Bible is so important, then maybe you would discover this.


No, since I don't believe the entire basis for their beliefs (an eternal god thatcreated everything) then if I "stopped and asked one of those people who come to your door why it is they believe the Bible is so important" all I would learn is why the Bible is important to THEM.


but I have learned WAY MORE by listening to others, what they believe and why....and most ASSUREDLY YES! If anyone came to me with sincerity and non-profit motive to give me some important information, I WOULD LISTEN....who knows ? It could be about my house exploding


As would I if IN MY OPINION it WAS important information. But as soon as they mentioned god, the Bible, or similar things, then it wouldn't be important information in my opinion so they can move on.

As I've mentioned numerous times in various threads, I have no problem with anyone believing what they like, but their belief doesn't give them the right to force thatbelief on others and it doesn't belong in the classrooms of public schools, it belongs in their home and place of worship. Should I or anyone else become interested in exploring their faith it would be easy enough to find them & get the information, they have no business looking for me & pushing their beliefs.
 Dudleyh45
Joined: 8/4/2008
Msg: 42
Burqas etc.....What is your opinion?
Posted: 7/25/2010 2:20:01 AM
I think it's all bullsh1t, from both sides.
Yes some people cause a bit of a ruckus now and then and use a twisted interpretation of a religion to gain power to achieve their goals. That doesn't make religion bad it means some unscupulous people are bad and others gullible.
Wearing a burka or a turbin or a cross or a witches hat is a matter of personal dress and if someone is offended by that too bad. If, for example, i meet someone on the street wearing a turbin and am offended by that then it is my intolerence toward that which is offensive, not his wearing the turbin. It is the same with any symbol no matter how it's displayed. If i wear a swastika and an iron cross and people of the jewish religion are offended by that it is their intolerence of the symbols of an atrocity that is the problem.
I will agree with susan that he shouldn't be subject to constant bombardment of people coming to his door asking to discuss their belief with him. I also feel there are means of preventing this from happening. A curt "fack off and don't come back" may suffice or a sign on the door maybe a phone call to the church. If these fail then a restraining order against that sect from coming onto your property may be possible, i don't know but you could try.
If it is not a danger to the public well being then wear what you will to show your religious pride or whatever. It is not the display nor displayer that is the intolerant one it is he who would be offended.
Maybe we have had things far too easy here and need this total ban. Isn't that what we have been begging for since we started asking government to add more restrain on our lives? Maybe we want or need the government to determine what we think and how we feel. That would give us the freedom from personal responsibility we have been pushing for over the past several decades.
 susan_cd
Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 44
Burqas etc.....What is your opinion?
Posted: 7/25/2010 9:28:00 AM

This is a point that I have tried to make with Susan...but in her last post she again refers to all the hurt caused in the name of religion AS ONE OF THE EXCUSES for her not to believe in God and the Bible.


No, wrong again.

1) I don't need an "excuse" to not believe in God or the Bible ( actually, when we say "don't believe in the Bible" I think we can agree that you meant "don't believe the Bible is the "word of God").

I don't believe in God or the Bible because there's NO evidence to prove God exists. No evidence, no belief. It's thatsimple. And though you stated
"They ignore massive evidence that suggests that the Bible is way much more than just another book written by men. " I'm still waiting for you to post some links to this evidence you claim exists.

2)I didn't refer to "all the hurt caused in the name of religion " as an excuse for my not believing the Bible, I referred to it as a reason to be opposed to orgnized religion ( agaian, a personcan be very spiritual without being part of a religious sect).

And when I did mention "all the hurt caused in the name of religion " your response was to brush it aside as "critical thinking", implying critical thinking is a bad thing.

Well, to any organized religion, I guess it would be considered bad.


The attempts to destroy the Bible are as ancient as the scriptures themselves.
Yet it prevails!


So does astrology, what's your point? Perseverance makes it true?


Some of the greatest minds in human history ---old and modern---recognize its value....even non-christians !!


None of which makes the Bible true or proves God exists.


But you know, there are reasons why many well educated people logically value the precepts within the Bible.


Again, none of which makes the Bible true or proves God exists.


NO! Not all people who will talk to you about the Bible can talk to you ONLY about why its "important to THEM".Some can logically explain why its important ...PERIOD!


As I don't believe in th eexistence of God and look on it as a book of mythology, then NO it isn't important to me, and I have no desire to have them waste my time trying to convince me otherwise.


Lastly, it YOUR bias...and YOURpreception...that when someone comes to your door "THEY ARE PUSHING THEIR RELIGION".


And tht's what they are doing, pushing their religion. A Christian wouldn't knock on my door to ask if I'm Jewish and to expound on the merits of becoming Jewish if I'm not, just as a Jewish person wouldn't expound on the merits of me becoming a Christian. Just as a vegan could knock onmy door to convince me to become a vegetarian.


Its how YOU are framing it in your mind to justify why you don't listen.


Firstly, I don't need to justify why I don't listen, and secondly I don't listen because I don't believe in God and there is no evidence to prove God's existence.

And I've said numerous times, I have no problem with people believing what they want, but their belief doesn't give them the right to push their beliefs onto me.


... still patiently waiting for links to the "massive evidence that suggests that the Bible is way much more than just another book written by men".


"Critical Thinking" was a term used in the 17th or 18th century (without going back to look it up) to describe a form of philosophy which was directed at questioning The Bible and it being from God.


Sorry, I did go "back to look it up".


Critical thinking

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Critical thinking is an on-going concern with the problems inherent in human thinking. It leads to the historical art of analyzing and evaluating thinking with a view to improving it. It includes, but is not exhausted by the mental process of analyzing or evaluating information, particularly statements or propositions that people have offered as true. It includes, but is not limited to, a process of reflecting upon the meaning of statements, examining the offered evidence and reasoning, and forming judgments about the facts
Critical thinkers can gather such information from reflection, observation, experience, reasoning, and/or reading, writing, speaking and listening. Critical thinking has its basis in intellectual criteria that go beyond subject-matter divisions and which include: clarity, accuracy, precision, relevance, depth, breadth, logic, significance, fairness..


With a definition like that, I can see why proponents of the Bible would look on "critical thinking" as an attack on the Bible. Critical thinking involves a lot more than ( as you said) " a form of philosophy which was directed at questioning The Bible and it being from God".

And is it wrong for someone who believes in the Bible to question it? Or is the book of Genesis to be accepted as a factual account of the creation ( that it was done in 6 days, etc) ?
 Dudleyh45
Joined: 8/4/2008
Msg: 45
Burqas etc.....What is your opinion?
Posted: 7/25/2010 12:03:23 PM

Dudley, you do make a reference to a "swastika"...and this a good point to bring up....because wearing it is against the law in many countries. By the way its originality is from ancient pagan(non-christian)religion which to some degree became accepted in the Catholic church sometime in the 1st millenium.
However, its symbolism today is intolerance, prejudice and genocide.Frankly for what it represents I find offensive as do most people.

It has also been a symbol of heraldry for centuries. So because of one mad man who was able to cause a great deal of havock we are to abandon the history and true meaning of the symbol? Who is the intolerant one in this scenario? Why does it have to be those who would value the historic symbolism who are perceived as intolerant? Valuing a symbol for it's history does not mean a person isn't sympathetic to those who were harmed by the nazis. Blame the people involved not a symbol they chose to defile. That would be the same as wearing a cross meaning you are intolerant of something and supporting the spanish inquisition and salem witch trials or any other attrocity carried out by madmen in the name of christianity.
There is a town in ontario named swastika, does this mean all canadians are intolerant of whatever because we allow this town to keep it's name?
The problem i have in understanding all this is the use of the word intolerant. What is the wearer of a symbol, no matter what symbol, intolerant of? It seems the left wing wants to change things so much they even want to redefine words and they seem to think if they say it long enough and loud enough it will become the accepted norm. Unfortunately this works on most of the general population. Intolerant means you refuse to accept or tolerate something. What does my wearing a cross or swastika or turbin or whatever make me intolerant of exactly? Nothing!! If you say i am being insensitive to a certain portion of the population or the population in general and my wearing a symbol is not a socially accepted thing then you are being honest. If you say it makes me intolerant then you lie by twisting the definition, however this is more effective because intolerant has a ring of shame and guilt to it.

As for critical thinking, it is what every normally functioning person and animal does on a daily basis. Going on susan's post of the wikopedia definition.
 printer2
Joined: 6/19/2007
Msg: 46
Burqas etc.....What is your opinion?
Posted: 7/25/2010 12:14:22 PM
Actually I find them rather slimming.
 susan_cd
Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 47
Burqas etc.....What is your opinion?
Posted: 7/25/2010 12:22:26 PM

Dudley, you do make a reference to a "swastika"...and this a good point to bring up....because wearing it is against the law in many countries. By the way its originality is from ancient pagan(non-christian)religion which to some degree became accepted in the Catholic church sometime in the 1st millenium.
However, its symbolism today is intolerance, prejudice and genocide.Frankly for what it represents I find offensive as do most people.


One could argue that the cross was an instrument of torture & execution before being adopted as a Christian symbol, so because it represents that, lots of people may find it offensive.

Christians could instead use the ancient symbol of Christianity, the fish icon.


It has also been a symbol of heraldry for centuries. So because of one mad man who was able to cause a great deal of havock we are to abandon the history and true meaning of the symbol? Who is the intolerant one in this scenario?


dudley, you're forgetting that for many religious groups ( not all, but there's good & bad in any group) tolerance means tolerance for what that group believes because "they're right".

Hence we have groups trying to have religion brought into public classrooms ( but only THEIR religion, not a class that compares all religions without favouring any single one).


As for critical thinking, it is what every normally functioning person and animal does on a daily basis.


Unfortunately many religious people ( again, not all) feel that their faith should be given a special exemption from such thinking. These are generally the same people that when asked for proof of their beliefs/god, they say "because the Bible says....".
 susan_cd
Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 49
Burqas etc.....What is your opinion?
Posted: 7/27/2010 5:51:06 PM

if you want to learn and understand and be able fully accept others (whether you agree with them or not)...


Does this mean you'd give equal time to someone coming to your door to discuss Christianity, Satanism, Wiccan , Astrology, our Extraterrestrial Teachers, how to develop your inherent psychic abilities, the pixies effected by the malathion spraying, the alien base on the moon, how aliens constructed the pyramids etc etc?


be able fully accept others (whether you agree with them or not)


I accept them, and feel they should have the right to believe & worship as they wish.

But the ones coming around knocking on my door to ask if "I've been saved" don't seem to "fully accept" my not wishing to be bothered by them.

Their right to believe & worship as they wish does not extend to my property, and shouldn't extend to any public property.


if you want to learn and understand and be able fully accept others (whether you agree with them or not)


I've learned enough about religion to see that there is no proof of anything the religions claim regarding a "supreme being" or the "Biblical Creation". As that's the case, why should i waste my time listening to someone trying to convert me to their mythology?


However, you are missing my point by you insisting on my posting links to prove things to you....if I did that , then you would just claim I am "pushing" beliefs onto you.


I think you're deliberately missing my point, you claimed there was massive evidence, I don't believe that, and I called you on it. Now you can't produce such evidence so look for an excuse to not post links. Kinda like a self-proclaimed psychic that, when tested under scientific conditions, can't show they have such abilities and say it's because there's too much negativity in the room. Nice copout.

If I ask for links ( that show the "massive evidence that suggests that the Bible is way much more than just another book written by men" ) then you aren't pushing beliefs on me, and I won't accuse you of that; so feel free to post such links.

But don't forget, as the saying goes, "great claims require great proofs". You can't use the fallback position "it says so in the Bible" as proof.
 susan_cd
Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 51
Burqas etc.....What is your opinion?
Posted: 7/28/2010 7:35:50 PM

Susan..this can go back and forth and over and over again and "me thinks thou does protest too much"

If you are willing to study the information within links then you can take the time to investigate as I have...


Actually, the going back & forth is about you claiming:

"massive evidence that suggests that the Bible is way much more than just another book written by men"

and me asking for you to post links to support your claim, and you finding a new excuse every day as to why you won't... which leads me ( and I think probably others reading this) to assume you have no such links or evidence to share with us.


then you can take the time to investigate as I have


I could, but since you're the one making the claim why should I expend effort to prove your claim? That's the job of the one making the claim.

Just in case you do decide to share this evidence with us, you should be aware that you can't use the Bible to prove itself ( ie, you can't say that "bevcause the Bible says this, that means it's true).


Which then makes me realize that the Bible must have wisdom superior to those living 1000 years ago since it referred to the world as not being flat over 3000 years ago.


Oh? Interesting if true, can you post the relevant chapter & verse? And if the Bible does say that ( clearly & concisely, not something that can be interpreted to mean it) it still wouldn't prove that God exists, just that the Bible has some nuggets of wisdom in it.


if they are doing something you don't particualirly like personally (that could mean showing up at your door to talk or wearing a burqa in public or whatever)and they are not trying to hurt others...why not talk to the people themselves about what motivates their actions


Religious fundamentalism motivates their actions, many Muslim leaders say that women aren't required to wear a burqa, it's just an extremist portion of the Muslim faith saying it's mandatory. In any case, Canada ( or any country these fundamentalist emigrate to) shouldn't be expeceted to alter their laws to accomodate them.

It's been pointed out by other media that wearing a burqa while driving poses a safety hazard, and some of the Muslims cry "religious oppresion" because the women are expected to have their faces uncovered for passport & other ID photographs.



Susan , you ask me whether I would give equal time to all the beliefs you set out....that of course is absurd.....for one thing...they do not all require the same amount of time to understand....and I never once suggested that you give equal time to any one thing over another.



But your posts seem quite adamant that the people coming tomy foor should be accomodated by me because ( as you stated):


AND lets just say for instance....for sake of argument that the JW's or the Mormons have the most important information for you that you could possibly imagine; THE MOST IMPORTANT INFO that will require your full attention and focus and comprehension to learn and know FOR YOUR OWN GOOD.....LETS JUST SAY >>>OK??


A meaningless statement because as an atheist they'd be wasting my time.


NO! Not all people who will talk to you about the Bible can talk to you ONLY about why its "important to THEM".Some can logically explain why its important ...PERIOD!


Another meaningless statement because it ISN't important to me...PERIOD. It's a book, not the word of god, and nothing they could say would make me change my mind.


For example you refer to the Earth being created in 6 -24 hour days....but if you knew the Bible , then you would know it actually doesn't say that.



5And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

6And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.

7And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.

8And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

9And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.

10And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.

11And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.

12And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

13And the evening and the morning were the third day.

14And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

15And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.

16And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

17And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,

18And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.

19And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

20And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.

21And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

22And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.

23And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.

24And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.

25And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

26And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

27So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

28And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

29And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.

30And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.

31And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.


So the Bible can say something ( in this case, "a day" ) and yes, it SAYS that but it doesn't necesarily mean what it says, because the priest/minister/rabbi/pastor will tell you what it means.

"OK class, this it what it says, but it doesn't mean that, it means "this".

( "this" being what the church or government wants it to mean at that point in history. Hence slavery was OK by the church in the past but isn't now... unless is's slavery to the church)

Great teaching tool.
 susan_cd
Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 53
Burqas etc.....What is your opinion?
Posted: 7/29/2010 6:09:18 PM

There exists a generation that is wise in its own mind but folly and destruction are its eventuality afterward.


Perhaps. I noticed you forgot to include links to "massive evidence that suggests that the Bible is way much more than just another book written by men" again. Guess we can all just accept that such evidence doesn't exist and move on.
 susan_cd
Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 55
Burqas etc.....What is your opinion?
Posted: 7/30/2010 2:23:06 PM
You don't ask with an open mind therefore you will not get (from me anyway) anything!!


ROFL Yeah right, that'll teach me .

Of course I won't, as I said you present a new excuse every day rather than posting links to support your claims.

A more likely explanation is you have no such evidence to support your claims and didn't expect to be called out on it but rather thought that simply your stating "massive evidence that suggests that the Bible is way much more than just another book written by men" would be accepted.


Dr Susan Blackmore:

the kind of ‘open mind’ that critics love to flaunt - the kind that really means “If you agree with me you have an open mind - if you agree with scientists you don’t”.


What next? I could claim to want the information because I have an open mind, but tomorrow you'd say you won't post the information because I didn't say "pretty please?".
 susan_cd
Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 57
Burqas etc.....What is your opinion?
Posted: 8/4/2010 3:05:53 PM

Susan you are not open to learning something from me NOR from anyone who believes differently from you. You have made that very clear. So why do you insist on making an issue over my not sending you a link when its obvious that you would only treat it with scorn and an unobjective viewpoint?


It appears that the evidence you make claims about is so fragile that if it was presented here & I treated it with scorn it would be destroyed. If it IS valid evidence & I treated it with scorn, that wouldn't change the fact that it is "massive evidence" in any way; it makes one wonder why you're afraid to post this evidence.


Clinical & skeptical minds would take your refusal to post the evidence as a sign that the "massive evidence that suggests that the Bible is way much more than just another book written by men" isn't as solid as you believe it to be, or perhaps the evidence is only valid when the Bible is taken as a historically factual book.


Susan you are not open to learning something from me NOR from anyone who believes differently from you. You have made that very clear


Actually, what I've made clear is that if someone is going to claim something ( whether just in passing or trying to have me learn something) & it's something I don't believe or have doubts about then they can expect me to ask for evidence to support their claim. And the contents of the Bible alone can't be used as evidence of their validity.



frankly you frankly you appear to be more adept at finding things on the computor than I, so if you REALLY DO want to research the evidence...by all means go to it!! , so if you REALLY DO want to research the evidence...by all means go to it!!


So today's excuse is that since I appear to be more adept at finding things on the computer than you, I should find the evidence to support your claim for you?

No, I don't think so.

The point is that you are claiming the evidence exists ( but won't post it) and I don't believe the evidence exsists. Since I don't believe it exists, I am not going to waste my time looking for it so I can prove YOUR claim.

The burden of proof lies on the person making the claim.
 susan_cd
Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 59
Burqas etc.....What is your opinion?
Posted: 8/5/2010 1:16:53 PM
Your last comments give full support to what I just said previously.
Since this is just a game of debate to you...I raise my flag in victory!!
I AM THE WINNER!!



Nice try, but debate winners are decide by a panel of judge, not by the ones engaged in the debate.

And my last comments were :

I am not going to waste my time looking for it so I can prove YOUR claim

and:

The burden of proof lies on the person making the claim.

And you feel that since YOU won't prove your claim & I won't look for evidence to support YOUR claim then you won?

Judges? your decision?

I see today's reason for not posting your alleged evidence is you want to make up your own rules for debating & end the debate so you don't have to post your non-existent evidence.
 susan_cd
Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 61
Burqas etc.....What is your opinion?
Posted: 8/7/2010 9:50:17 AM

I will end my conversation with a well known quote:

"WHATEVER!"


Of course you will end your onversation like that, rather than post your evidence.

I don't need to have the last word, I'd just rather see people willing to back up assertations they make, instead of having people make assertations & assume that people will blindly accept it without question.
 susan_cd
Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 63
Burqas etc.....What is your opinion?
Posted: 8/10/2010 2:10:26 PM

Yet you demand that I MUST give you a "link" that will sum up all that experience, learning and kowledge in one "link"!
And if I don't provide you with that one "link" then there is no evidence..no proof...no basis for believing that the Bible is more than just another book.


Actually, what you said was :


They ignore massive evidence that suggests that the Bible is way much more than just another book written by men.


And I've asked for some links to these "massive amounts of evidence" which you are claiming exist.

I never said you "MUST give you a "link" that will sum up all that experience, learning and kowledge in one "link">

I never said if you "don't provide you with that one "link" then there is no evidence..no proof...no basis for believing that the Bible is more than just another book".

All I've said is you've CLAIMED there are massive amounts of evidence and that I would like to view this evidence.

You have yet to provide anything ( other than excuses why you won't post links to this claimed evidence).

As to your comment "don't provide you with that one "link" then there is no evidence..no proof...no basis for believing that the Bible is more than just another book", no that would indicate there is no evidence..no proof...no basis for believing that YOU have any such massive amounts of evidence the Bible is more than just another book.


You insult my intelligence...and are making a mockery of all the efforts I have made to discover "truth".


No, I'm making a mockery of your claim of massive amounts of evidence.


It took years for me to discover a little bit of truth...you assume this can be summed up with one "link".


You're the only one saying it's to be done in 1 link.


So if you INSIST on a "link" then go do your own research to find that "link"


Go look for data to prove your point? You're the one that made the claim, I'm just asking that you back it up.
 susan_cd
Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 65
Burqas etc.....What is your opinion?
Posted: 9/2/2010 2:07:37 PM

Theres a person, who post too much on here, who needs both afull-body Burca), and a muzzle.


If you feel someone post too much, perhaps you should take it up with the moderators & see what they think.


This person loves to argue, and appear right


1) nothing wrong with arguing, long as you don't get personal with ad hominem attacks ( such as, for example, "who needs both afull-body Burca" ( whatever a "burca" is ) and "and a muzzle" ).

2) who doesn't like to appear right?



A heart, and a brain are good options too.


Last I heard, a person needs both to live, so unless you're implying I'm some sort of zombie or android I'm not sure what your point is.
 Dudleyh45
Joined: 8/4/2008
Msg: 66
Burqas etc.....What is your opinion?
Posted: 9/3/2010 4:23:13 PM
you two should get a room
 susan_cd
Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 68
Burqas etc.....What is your opinion?
Posted: 9/7/2010 10:43:11 PM

I have been considering on getting a "body wrap" in order to loose weight. Not sure about wrapping up my mouth since that wouldn't restrict my typing.


But I'd think wrapping your mouth would also help you lose weight ( I'm just saying, not suggesting you should wrap your mouth).

 Fort Garry Dark
Joined: 11/25/2005
Msg: 69
view profile
History
Burqas etc.....What is your opinion?
Posted: 9/8/2010 5:01:12 PM
Pretty boring over done topic.

No wonder the forums have died.
 susan_cd
Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 70
Burqas etc.....What is your opinion?
Posted: 9/10/2010 10:30:55 PM
^^^ doesn't really have anything to do with burquas.

I started a new thread asking if you ( all readers, not just rozzko) think vaccines are a health risk.

Let's see if the thread remains, and if it does those that feel that way about vaccines can use that thread to discuss their views.
 susan_cd
Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 71
Burqas etc.....What is your opinion?
Posted: 9/12/2010 9:46:29 PM
There's a thread specifically for people who feel vaccines are bad, you should be posting there.

You post the same anti-vaccine rant on any thread here, regardless of the topic of the thread, do you even read the threads you're posting on, or do you merely type a long diatribe somewhere & simply paste it wherever you can?


Autism has increased from 1 in 10,000 to 1 in 67 in some areas. In another decade there will be few normal kids. Once your children and grandchildren are autistic, maybe some people will wise up. Of course, it will be too late for your children and grandchildren. Oh, and I'm talkin about Burqas. The vaccine thing is just symbolism.


Just when we start to think rozzko can't say something more stupid than one of his previous posts, he does post something stupider.
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