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 sun_water
Joined: 5/26/2018
Msg: 576
Women making the first move...Page 24 of 27    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27)

I think you can generalize if it's something about their nature or if the numbers back it up. Things like women initiating more divorces than men and men being more affected than women by break ups are facts.


If there are accurate numbers and data that back up a person's statement. Then it is simply a fact. Not a generalization. But claiming all or nearly all women that "sleep around" have emotional problems is subjective at best.
 2ufo
Joined: 12/25/2017
Msg: 577
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Women making the first move...
Posted: 9/3/2018 11:27:09 AM
Once again, Coma... :-)

Where did you get the info that men, more than women, are affected by break ups is a fact?
And how is ‘affected’ defined?
Financially? Ha! More women are affected worse and more men are affected to their betterment financially.
Emotionally?
Socially?
Mentally?

And Dayna & NG,
Yes, lots of men and lots of women sleep around. But it isn’t a 1:1 ratio. Every new man who cheats doesn’t find a new woman who has never cheated before. Likewise, a long-term cheater does not necessarily end up with another long-term cheater.
 Coma_White
Joined: 9/15/2013
Msg: 578
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Women making the first move...
Posted: 9/3/2018 11:50:31 AM

Where did you get the info that men, more than women, are affected by break ups is a fact?
And how is ‘affected’ defined?
Financially? Ha! More women are affected worse and more men are affected to their betterment financially.
Emotionally?
Socially?
Mentally?


I'm not sure what you mean. Why would you saw women are worse off financially? Every study done concludes that men take longer to get over break ups. It's also just common sense. It's easier to move on when you have a lot of options and people approaching you.

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/love-sex/men-may-never-truly-get-over-a-relationship-break-up-says-study-10450413.html
 Rumours
Joined: 6/4/2018
Msg: 579
Women making the first move...
Posted: 9/3/2018 11:56:08 AM

Yes, lots of men and lots of women sleep around. But it isn’t a 1:1 ratio.

True.
What about...some men cheat with another man and some women cheat with another woman.

Every study done concludes that men take longer to get over break ups.

In the real world....I have witnessed the opposite.
 Coma_White
Joined: 9/15/2013
Msg: 580
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Women making the first move...
Posted: 9/3/2018 12:05:02 PM

In the real world....I have witnessed the opposite.


Really? Every relationship I've been in since I was 15, the woman moved on way faster. Like you said, I've witnessed the opposite, men that miss the women they were dating and women that move on quickly because they already have an inbox flooded with messages or guys at the gym or some place that are interested in them. All the studies conclude it takes men longer to get over a break up.
 ssm508
Joined: 5/27/2018
Msg: 581
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Women making the first move...
Posted: 9/3/2018 12:17:45 PM
It can depend on the reason(s) for the breakup and who initiated the breakup. If a man decided to break up with a woman and she was blindsided by it, I think she would take longer to get over the break up in that circumstance.
 Seahorse_Jockey
Joined: 8/24/2018
Msg: 582
Women making the first move...
Posted: 9/3/2018 12:19:55 PM

Every study done concludes that men take longer to get over break ups.


How can anybody do a study on that? It's not like one minute, somebody is heartbroken, and the next minute, they're over it. It's usually a gradual thing and dependent on the circumstances. Somebody might feel they're over a breakup, and there might be something that triggers the hurt feelings all over again-and getting over that varies from person to person. It sounds like somebody did a survey, asking people how long did it take them to get over a breakup, and just took their word for it when people specified a time frame.
 2ufo
Joined: 12/25/2017
Msg: 583
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Women making the first move...
Posted: 9/3/2018 2:05:24 PM

I'm not sure what you mean. Why would you saw [sic] women are worse off financially?

Because studies show they are.


Every study done concludes that men take longer to get over break ups.

Again, I will ask.. in what way? Because it certainly isn't financially or socially.
IF the man, for example, cheats on his wife and refuses to go to counseling, then I'll agree that he may be shocked that she dare to divorce him. But are you saying that men are so delicate that the shock of a woman leaving is so detrimental to him? Surely not!
I will agree that a person being blindsided - whether male or female - is going to take much longer to recover their balance and sense of self. And I'll agree that more women initiate divorce --- because they are sick of begging their man to stay home, play with the kids, don't f*ck around, pay attention to their family, go to some sort of counseling. But I can't say the man would be surprised after all that. As an example...I spent a year trying to convince my ex to go to some sort of counseling. So I gave up on the marriage and filed for divorce. The first words out of his mouth were, "let's go to counsel".
But are all men (I'll certainly say 'some men' are) so stupid they can't recognize cause and effect?


It's also just common sense.

Are you talking about divorced women who may be burdened with a new house mortgage ('cause she got the house'), less money, entirely new ways of doing things because there's no partner to assist, having to find a job/full-time work/more money, dealing with an ex who wants to mess up her life because he's angry or won't pay child support. Those women - and all their options? (Hint: I am being sarcastic.)

It is not easier to move on because you have more options and people are approaching you... it's easier to move on because you know there's nothing behind you but the ashes of a marriage you thought was forever. It's easier because you have to keep going forward - sometimes for the kids and sometimes for yourself.


It's easier to move on when you have a lot of options and people approaching you.

Are you kidding!? People AVOID divorced women like they're contagious. Except men who thing they're an easy f*ck.

Note: I am not saying that men's behavior is the cause of all divorces. A marriage and, by relevancy, divorces are the combined behaviors of both parties. Both parties are injured in various ways by a divorce.
 2ufo
Joined: 12/25/2017
Msg: 584
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Women making the first move...
Posted: 9/3/2018 2:11:28 PM

All the studies conclude it takes men longer to get over a break up.

You cited one article.
Hardly all.
And the article appears to say that the reason men take longer to get over a divorce is because they are competitive with other men and deeply mourn losing the 'One'.


Women are emotionally hit hardest after a break-up – but men suffer more in the long term and may never truly get over it.

That’s according to researchers who found that men suffer as the impact of the loss “sinks in” and they have to start "competing" all over again for a significant other.

Craig Morris, research associate at Binghamton University, says the differences boil down to biology. Women have more to lose by dating the wrong person, and so are better at accepting a relationship is over and selecting a new partner.


Perhaps, for men, it's simply regret for what they did and didn't do or say.
 julystorm22
Joined: 6/15/2018
Msg: 585
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Posted: 9/3/2018 4:17:25 PM
I've witnessed the opposite too. Men tend to find girlfriends quicker and move on, on average.

And I showed the stats in an earlier thread that showed while women were the plaintiffs more often in divorce cases, meaning they are the ones who initiate the divorce, the stats show that the reasons for initiating divorce are most often adultery and/or the man moving out so in reality its the man that caused the divorce. Men aren't usually in a hurry to head to court because it doesn't usually benefit them to do so because they are the ones that end up paying child support and/or alimony.

Women who divorce are more likely to end up struggling financially because women usually have lower-paying jobs on average.
 Coma_White
Joined: 9/15/2013
Msg: 586
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Posted: 9/3/2018 4:40:15 PM

How can anybody do a study on that? It's not like one minute, somebody is heartbroken, and the next minute, they're over it. It's usually a gradual thing and dependent on the circumstances. Somebody might feel they're over a breakup, and there might be something that triggers the hurt feelings all over again-and getting over that varies from person to person. It sounds like somebody did a survey, asking people how long did it take them to get over a breakup, and just took their word for it when people specified a time frame.


They do studies on it the same way they do studies on divorce, depression, anxiety, dating, loneliness, disabilities, etc. It's not like they have to come up with a new method.


Again, I will ask.. in what way? Because it certainly isn't financially or socially.
IF the man, for example, cheats on his wife and refuses to go to counseling, then I'll agree that he may be shocked that she dare to divorce him. But are you saying that men are so delicate that the shock of a woman leaving is so detrimental to him? Surely not!
I will agree that a person being blindsided - whether male or female - is going to take much longer to recover their balance and sense of self. And I'll agree that more women initiate divorce --- because they are sick of begging their man to stay home, play with the kids, don't f*ck around, pay attention to their family, go to some sort of counseling. But I can't say the man would be surprised after all that. As an example...I spent a year trying to convince my ex to go to some sort of counseling. So I gave up on the marriage and filed for divorce. The first words out of his mouth were, "let's go to counsel".
But are all men (I'll certainly say 'some men' are) so stupid they can't recognize cause and effect?


Sure it is. Men, in general, have less support for emotional issues than women. They also typically pay more child support and alimony than women. On average, women initiate more divorces than men. A lot of men are devastated and broken if they lose a woman they love. That's not rare. I believe men are the more romantic of the two genders and pretend to be opportunistic. You don't see YouTube channels devoted to women trying to solve the problem of getting over break ups because men are always trading up. You don't see any Women Going Their Own way movements. The bottom line is men and women are different and there are disadvantages for each gender.


Are you kidding!? People AVOID divorced women like they're contagious. Except men who thing they're an easy f*ck.

Note: I am not saying that men's behavior is the cause of all divorces. A marriage and, by relevancy, divorces are the combined behaviors of both parties. Both parties are injured in various ways by a divorce.


No they don't. My last girlfriend was divorced twice. Why would I care if she was divorced?


And I showed the stats in an earlier thread that showed while women were the plaintiffs more often in divorce cases, meaning they are the ones who initiate the divorce, the stats show that the reasons for initiating divorce are most often adultery and/or the man moving out so in reality its the man that caused the divorce. Men aren't usually in a hurry to head to court because it doesn't usually benefit them to do so because they are the ones that end up paying child support and/or alimony.


No, it's not the men causing divorces in general. You could say the guy drove the to do that but you could also say the woman drove the guy to move out. It's a never ending blame game. The point I was making is that divorce rates have increased over time due to hypergamy and more options for women.
 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 587
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Posted: 9/3/2018 5:38:55 PM

As for the fact that NG always brings up, that statistically as many women sleep around as men because the men have to be sleeping with someone, I think its bulltweed.

The # of women guys slept with is ~equal to # of men women slept with. It's a basic basic Fact. The # of men & # of women are ~equal. Thus, they're going to have equal #s. The bullweed is the cultural conditioning that men slept with more women than women slept with men.

Take 5 guys, 5 gals on an island. One guy bangs all 5 girls, the other 4 guys empty-handed. What's the average? The same for both guys & girls, no matter how you slice it and dice it. It's a 1:1 ratio when the population is 1:1. Cultural Conditioning makes it hard for some people to understand this! :)

Ok, let me specify what my definition of "sleeping around" is when it refers to women.

It should be the same for guys.

It refers to a woman who sleeps with multiple people over a long period of time such as months or years.

So a woman who sleeps with 2 different guys over the course of 18 months is "sleeping around"? Yikes. That's pretty harsh.

There are also the women that prefere to not be in a relationship but every once in a blue moon go and have a one night stand because they need to let off some tension.

They'd fit your definition of sleeping around. :) And by the way, there's A Lot in-between not being in a Relationship VS purposely going for a 1 night stand. A lot.

I was referring to women that spend a large period of their life going from guy to guy to guy.

Again, it's relative. Basically "sleeping around" is, when single (or not), sleeping with "too many" guys. Some may think sleeping with more than 1 guy in a year is "too much", some may think it'd take more than 1 guy in a month for that label to stick.

Where as many men will go around sleeping with several different women for several months or years, there usually aren't doing it because of emotional issues, it's just because they want to do it and they feel a need to do so.

There's not emotional issues with most people hooking up "too much" compared to the conservative ideal. With men or women. It's the brainwashed conservative mentality that thinks so, out of those who Would have to have emotional problems to do so themselves. Part of the shaming process that some people can't get out of. A shame, really.

So you were really Confident-Realist who joined in early 2004 or are you pulling my leg?

Oh, is that your leg? I thought you were well hung, sorry. ;) I very well might be Confident Realist from way back actually in 2003. ;)

Yes, lots of men and lots of women sleep around. But it isn’t a 1:1 ratio.

The average # each slept with of the opp-sex is going to be 1:1, when the ratio of heterosexual men & women is 1:1. Surveys never show this, as it reflects social assumptions that men's # is always bigger, mostly by a lot. That should be a sign that we shouldn't use social assumptions as our measuring stick when it comes to women & sex in general.

Again, when women first started really liking me in-that-way around the turn of the century, social assumptions about decent gals was blown out of the water. Not in a "bad" way, IMO -- it's just that women are more secretive about what they do or are willing to do VS men. Good, decent gals too.
 WhatNamesAreLeftThen
Joined: 8/25/2018
Msg: 588
Women making the first move...
Posted: 9/3/2018 5:40:09 PM
Julystorm, you have a very tainted and negative view of men. I understand that two of the most significant men in your life were not very good examples of what a man should be. I have a similar problem, only with women. I grew up in a sexist, female dominated family. Every get together, the women would sit around a table and talk about how dumb, lazy, and pathetic men are. A stranger looking in could tell who is new because they were the ones that would stand up for themselves/men. The men in the family would just laugh while he got verbally berated for daring to think a man was allowed a voice. Ironically, most of the women didn't work, the houses were disasters, and the men would work as much as ninety hours a week, just to come home and hand it over to the women, who would squander it on junk.

As for women having lower paying jobs, not only do women make way more in tips for most tipping jobs, they get those jobs over the men most of the time. I'd love to serve a dozen plates of food for a $30 to $60 dollar tip instead of shoveling manure for a fraction of the pay.
 cooldog65
Joined: 6/27/2011
Msg: 589
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Women making the first move...
Posted: 9/3/2018 10:12:19 PM

Oh, is that your leg? I thought you were well hung, sorry. ;) I very well might be Confident Realist from way back actually in 2003. ;)


I saw a joined date of 2/8/2004. Let's not forget the name azureorb...
 julystorm22
Joined: 6/15/2018
Msg: 590
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Posted: 9/3/2018 11:31:25 PM

As for women having lower paying jobs, not only do women make way more in tips for most tipping jobs, they get those jobs over the men most of the time. I'd love to serve a dozen plates of food for a $30 to $60 dollar tip instead of shoveling manure for a fraction of the pay.

Around my neck of the woods it is men who have the really high paying jobs with some women occasionally getting into one. The high-paying employers around here are the CN railway and the Mosaic potash mine plus a lot of men go away to work in the oil patch. There's also a fair number of farmers that make good money (not very many small farmers around anymore these days) and guys that work in the trades (electrician, plumber, pipefitter, etc.) tend to make good money. Most women do not have those jobs. When it comes to jobs in the mine or the CN, women who have kids who are intending on having kids do not choose those jobs as a career path because logically it wouldn't work with them being the ones being the primary carer of the children because shift work and working away from home isn't feasible when you have kids. When it comes to the trades, very few women get into them. When it comes to primarily "female-jobs" the only real high-paying fields are healthcare (registered nurses primarily) and education (teachers). A waitress makes minimum wage and the tips are paltry. Restaurants aren't really busy here anymore and those that are, usually have policies whereby the tips are distributed evenly between all staff, in both the kitchen and dining room and its not a ton of money. Maybe waitresses in bigger cities make better tips. I was a bartender in a fairly busy highway bar outside of Winnipeg when I was 18 and 19 and I was making about $150 in tips on Friday and Saturday nights but not on the other nights, not even close. And when you are making only minimum wage, it really isn't a lot. And from what I've heard and seen, the bars and restaurants (with some exceptions) are now often empty on most nights. People just don't seem to go out nearly as much anymore or there's less people with significant spending money.

How someone does financially after a divorce has a large part to do with the job the husband has. If the husband makes good bucks, the wife gets a lot of alimony and/or child support but if not then she doesn't. And while some men have to pay way too much child support or alimony, mainly if the wife was a stay-at-home mother, its not the norm from what I've observed. I see a lot of couples who split and the guys quickly buy new houses and still drive nice 4x4 trucks and the works and while I do see some women who divorce that maintain their lifestyle, many end up worse off. There's sadly a surprising number of men who walk away from their families and rarely give child support or see their kids at all by choice.
 2ufo
Joined: 12/25/2017
Msg: 591
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Women making the first move...
Posted: 9/4/2018 8:44:05 AM
Coma...
Rather than go over your post point by point, I will only comment that:

You are unique. Your experiences are unique.
They are not universal.
They are also atypical.

In a divorce, it is women who suffer financially and socially. Various studies prove this.
In general, women decide to end a marriage that has been tearing them apart and, by the time they initiate a divorce, they have already done their mourning.

If we must be exact - it is marriages that cause divorce.

And, for the record, I really detest men saying women get all the alimony and child support.
Child support is (supposed to be) for raising children and studies also show that women spend a higher percentage of their income on children then men do.
And less that 10% of divorced women receive alimony (while about only 3% of men do).
However, men still make more money...


Altogether, there are only two occupations—‘dining room and cafeteria attendants and bartender helpers’ and ‘wholesale and retail buyers, except farm products’—in which women’s median earnings are slightly higher than men’s, while there are 107 occupations in which women’s median earnings were 95 percent or less than men’s (that is, a wage gap of at least 5 cents per dollar earned by men). During 2017, the median gender earnings ratio for all full-time weekly workers was 81.8 percent, reflecting median weekly earnings for all female full-time workers of $770, compared with $941 per week for men (Table 1). In general, the highest paid occupations have the biggest gender gaps and the lowest paid occupations that have the smallest gaps. All but one of the ten occupations with the largest gender wage gaps have earnings that are higher than median earnings for all workers ($860); five of the ten occupations with the lowest wage gaps or with a gap in favor of women have earnings below the median for all workers.
from https://iwpr.org/publications/gender-wage-gap-occupation-2017-race-ethnicity/
 fullmoonguy2
Joined: 6/14/2017
Msg: 592
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Posted: 9/4/2018 11:39:03 AM

There's sadly a surprising number of men who walk away from their families and rarely give child support or see their kids at all by choice.


Speaking of "choice", those are the men that women should make a "choice" never to get involved with in the first place.

But, they keeping getting involved.
 browneyesboo
Joined: 1/17/2018
Msg: 593
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Posted: 9/4/2018 12:25:17 PM

Speaking of "choice", those are the men that women should make a "choice" never to get involved with in the first place.


Okei, now I get it.

 Coma_White
Joined: 9/15/2013
Msg: 594
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Women making the first move...
Posted: 9/4/2018 12:31:56 PM

Coma...
Rather than go over your post point by point, I will only comment that:

You are unique. Your experiences are unique.
They are not universal.
They are also atypical.

In a divorce, it is women who suffer financially and socially. Various studies prove this.
In general, women decide to end a marriage that has been tearing them apart and, by the time they initiate a divorce, they have already done their mourning.

If we must be exact - it is marriages that cause divorce.

And, for the record, I really detest men saying women get all the alimony and child support.
Child support is (supposed to be) for raising children and studies also show that women spend a higher percentage of their income on children then men do.
And less that 10% of divorced women receive alimony (while about only 3% of men do).
However, men still make more money...


Exactly. That's why I'd rather look at the evidence and the numbers. Studies conclude that men are more affected by break ups/divorces and women initiate more divorces than men. What study proves women suffer more financially and socially? Who says a woman has already done their mourning before they get a divorce? Divorces can happen because the woman found someone they're more attracted to or someone with more resources. It's not true that men make more money than women. People interpret statistics to mislead people to that conclusion, but if it was legal to pay women less than men, businesses would just hire women to save money. Men generally work longer hours at higher risk jobs and women take more time off for raising families.
 realtysucks
Joined: 8/25/2018
Msg: 595
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Women making the first move...
Posted: 9/4/2018 2:05:33 PM
I’d prefer to have the woman make the first move.
That way I’m not in a bit of a bind.

Then again, it’s tricky
 julystorm22
Joined: 6/15/2018
Msg: 597
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Posted: 9/4/2018 3:00:12 PM
Divorce can be hard on both men and women and it can hit both pretty hard financially. The lawyer bills alone are a minefield. I think divorce can affect both men and women fairly bad, especially a person who is blindsided. In divorces with kids involved, the bulk of the responsibilities do usually fall onto the shoulders of the mother with some exceptions. Child support is often high but it costs a lot to raise kids. School fees and supplies, recreation fees, winter outerwear, daycare, groceries, it all is expensive. The courts don't just come up with a random number for guys to pay. Its based on actual estimates.
 Ladyinred0407
Joined: 2/6/2016
Msg: 598
Women making the first move...
Posted: 9/4/2018 5:28:38 PM

Its based on actual estimates.



I have no idea about what the family law is in Canada but in the USofA, "actual" is based on the documented yearly gross income of the "payer" and "estimate" is in the mind set of the "payee", and more often than not the "actual"...……….court ordered monthly amount is seldom received by the "payee".

For me, the tidy sum of 3 DOLLARS and fifty CENTS, per week, was extremely hard to spread around.
 dinno76
Joined: 7/13/2018
Msg: 599
Women making the first move...
Posted: 9/4/2018 5:29:33 PM
Is that why Tiger Woods had to pay 500 million dollars to his ex wife because that is how much it takes to raise two kids? Some men have committed suicide after getter destroyed in divorce court.
 Ladyinred0407
Joined: 2/6/2016
Msg: 600
Women making the first move...
Posted: 9/4/2018 5:36:49 PM
Before one writes falsehoods, it's a good idea to do the research. Child support is issued monthly…………...and no, Tiger Woods is not paying 500 million in child support payments monthly.
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