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 julystorm22
Joined: 6/15/2018
Msg: 601
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Women making the first move...Page 25 of 27    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27)
My ex is not working (at least legally) but the courts imputed income, meaning they say what he should be making so he's legally obligated to pay me $263 a month which he hasn't. But eventually if he hasn't paid a certain amount he loses his license, passport, PAL and they freeze his bank accounts.
 daynadaze
Joined: 2/11/2008
Msg: 602
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Women making the first move...
Posted: 9/4/2018 6:27:11 PM
Some women have commited suicide after a bad divorce...what is your point? When people have children together they should equally raise those children in a way that takes proper care of those children mentally, physically and financially.
 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 603
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Women making the first move...
Posted: 9/4/2018 6:33:53 PM

I saw a joined date of 2/8/2004. Let's not forget the name azureorb...

I could have sworn it was 2003. Maybe you're right. And yes, azureorb was the original name. I don't know if it was way-back-then you could change your name on-the-fly, but I did to Confident Realist, as azureorb wasn't so good for dating, as you can imagine. :)

In a divorce, it is women who suffer financially and socially. Various studies prove this.

You'll find studies conflicting with others, or sometimes not so much. But various studies show men suffer financially & emotionally, too. You can say women do More, as more women are more leaning on support of the husband (even though that's lessening), hence wanting as much child control as possible and by default getting it, less independence too for them and the kid. But to say guys don't suffer from it is laughable. If anything, it's downplayed greatly.

In general, women decide to end a marriage that has been tearing them apart and, by the time they initiate a divorce, they have already done their mourning.

A lot of women (and men) take a little while longer than filing for divorce for them to be "done" with their issues - lol. Which is why many don't want to date someone who's Separated when opting for LTR opportunities. And bad marriages will tear both parties apart. You can say women have more pain -- but you can say that about Anything that brings emotional stress (dating in general, loss of a family member, etc), so it's kind of a moot point. The key is, objectively speaking, who Should be hurting more? You base it on an individual situation. One can't say "just because she's female, she falls into a popular category despite other decently popular categories she could fall into."

One thing is, when it does come to child support payment -- it's based on old-times sake where women didn't go to college much if at all, and also didn't have real careers for the most part when having kids.
 johnfromzelie
Joined: 3/8/2018
Msg: 604
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Women making the first move...
Posted: 9/4/2018 6:40:04 PM
helping support my kids was never an issue but I fully supported them and my ex. she never got a job and my kids money became her money. my kids money paid for her to do as she pleased while I paid a second time when the kids needed something.
 julystorm22
Joined: 6/15/2018
Msg: 605
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Women making the first move...
Posted: 9/4/2018 6:51:45 PM
The situations where the guy seems to get screwed is when the woman is a stay-at-home mother. Then she gets child support and alimony. But most working mothers get a lot less.

When my ex first told me it was over because he was with his new girlfriend, at first the plan was that he would move out but still continue paying half the childcare. If he had kept that agreement and paid for half the childcare I would not have had to move into my mom's. He was actually working at the time and could have but he didn't want to
 ohenryx
Joined: 3/12/2010
Msg: 606
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Women making the first move...
Posted: 9/4/2018 8:29:19 PM
My join date is only 2010, 2004 or 2003 is really going back a ways. And no, I had never equated Confident-Realist with NorwegianGuy456, but now that you mention it, yes, I can see that, I can easily believe it. And congratulations on 14 years. We really should have buttons or pins like AA. (smile)


norwegianguy456
And bad marriages will tear both parties apart. You can say women have more pain -- but you can say that about Anything that brings emotional stress (dating in general, loss of a family member, etc), so it's kind of a moot point.

I don’t know if that is really true, about women having more pain. I think women are more free to show their pain, whereas men are supposed to be stoic. You learn playing sports, when you get hit by a fast ball (which really, really hurts, by the way), to “walk it off”. And when playing football, and you take a bad hit, never show the pain, it will only encourage your opponent.

In the greater scheme of things, I don’t know if this is good or bad. But it is what it is.
 __TEXASCHICK__
Joined: 11/9/2011
Msg: 607
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Women making the first move...
Posted: 9/4/2018 8:57:33 PM
JULY writes
Then she gets child support and alimony. But most working mothers get a lot less.

Doesnt Canada have some rule if a woman w/ kids has a man who is living w/ her, or her him, then if they break up, HE could be stuck paying support for the kids??
that would make men very wary about involvement w/ a woman who has kids.
 julystorm22
Joined: 6/15/2018
Msg: 608
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Women making the first move...
Posted: 9/4/2018 11:13:54 PM
That is true and I'm not sure I agree with it but there are reasons for the law. But it is mostly applied when there are other children born to the marriage so that children aren't excluded from their other siblings. Also it gives stepparents the right to pursue custody. There's been cases of stepparents getting primary custody of a kid over the biological parent. I know of one example off hand. A woman had a kid on her own (teen pregnancy, father never in the picture, remarried when the kid was 3, had 2 more kids). Woman cheated on her husband 6 years later, got caught doing coke at a rodeo having sex with two cowboys, he got custody of all 3 kids, even the stepkid.
Women making the first move...
Posted: 9/5/2018 4:11:14 AM

Then she gets child support and alimony

Alimony is not given too freely. The marriage must be long term and the alimony is only suppose to be for a short time, until the woman gets on her feet. In this day and age, there aren't too many women who don't work. Alimony is turning into the dinosaur it should be.


Doesnt Canada have some rule if a woman w/ kids has a man who is living w/ her, or her him, then if they break up, HE could be stuck paying support for the kids??
that would make men very wary about involvement w/ a woman who has kids.

Yes, there is that law. Although, you can't collect child support twice, if the bio father is already paying, you can't make the step daddy pay too. I always tell my son to stay away from women with kids. Unless he wants to trade his toys in to pay for someone else's responsibility.
Women making the first move...
Posted: 9/5/2018 4:24:40 AM

I have no idea about what the family law is in Canada but in the USofA, "actual" is based on the documented yearly gross income of the "payer"

For the most part it is here as well. I have never heard of this estimate thing July is on about. It might be true though. I picked well enough the first time to pick a guy with a decent job.
 julystorm22
Joined: 6/15/2018
Msg: 611
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Women making the first move...
Posted: 9/5/2018 4:57:35 AM
When I was writing up my custody petition with my lawyer, I tried saying I wasn't even going to bother trying to get child support because it would be like trying to get blood from a stone plus maybe he would agree to things quicker. But I was told it is mandatory as it is the right of the child. You are required by law to ask for child support with any custody request. And there are table amounts which differ per province plus you pr9vide estimates for both childcare fees and recreation costs although I just asked for the table amounts. If I ever get any money I will be shocked although maintenance enforcement is pretty hardcore going after guys who won't pay.
 browneyesboo
Joined: 1/17/2018
Msg: 612
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Women making the first move...
Posted: 9/5/2018 6:43:26 AM
^^^^Child support should be mandatory.
And women should use that support for the children. I know
my ex sister in law used hers for trips and vacations and the kids
were constantly having to ask my brother for things they needed.

Child support is pretty serious around here. I do payroll for a few
companies and it's not uncommon to take the child support right
out of someone's check....and that's how it should be if they don't pay.

Alimony I would hope isn't common anymore.
I would like to think my generation learned from the 50's to not be
dependent on ANYONE for their livelihood.
 johnfromzelie
Joined: 3/8/2018
Msg: 613
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Women making the first move...
Posted: 9/5/2018 9:52:12 AM

That is true and I'm not sure I agree with it but there are reasons for the law. But it is mostly applied when there are other children born to the marriage so that children aren't excluded from their other siblings. Also it gives stepparents the right to pursue custody. There's been cases of stepparents getting primary custody of a kid over the biological parent. I know of one example off hand. A woman had a kid on her own (teen pregnancy, father never in the picture, remarried when the kid was 3, had 2 more kids). Woman cheated on her husband 6 years later, got caught doing coke at a rodeo having sex with two cowboys, he got custody of all 3 kids, even the stepkid.
I had custody of both my stepchildren (her kids) while she kept ours. I paid support and alimony for them but received none for her two that came with me. one eventually went back to mom and I paid support for him too!
 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 614
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Women making the first move...
Posted: 9/5/2018 10:13:33 AM

The situations where the guy seems to get screwed is when the woman is a stay-at-home mother. Then she gets child support and alimony. But most working mothers get a lot less.

One of my friends who has a good middle-class job, and his ex-live-in-GF who has a middle class job where she has primary custody, has to pay too much. Nothing too too crazy -- but if he made a lot of money, it would be, IMO. They're on great terms and all, but I can see how/why certain gals I've dated & been friends with before have mentioned that she & their ex agree he only has to give X amt when they both do just fine and the court ordered more than necessary per usual. I can understand a guy not making much would have to give a high % of his income, as, well, supporting a kid would do that of course. But a guy making a ton of $$ -- why would he have to give the mom more $ than a guy with a middle class job giving adequate or more amounts?

My join date is only 2010, 2004 or 2003 is really going back a ways.

Now that I think about it, it was 2004, where POF actually got steam in 2003?

I think women are more free to show their pain, whereas men are supposed to be stoic. You learn playing sports, when you get hit by a fast ball (which really, really hurts, by the way), to “walk it off”.

I agree with you that that's there and shouldn't be ignored. But I think it's society taking something from the natural flow of how men & women can tend to be, and Amping up & Encouraging being in said Different directions, moreso than what is naturally going on. It helps to become a self-fufilling prophecy, but also fuels stereotypes.

^^^^Child support should be mandatory.
And women should use that support for the children.

I agree. I think it's just the amount/extent given certain situations that can be obviously questionable. I think the (non-wacko) father should also have to play Some role in the child's life too.

Funny how "women making the first move" turns into budgeting after a woman gets pregnant. :)
Women making the first move...
Posted: 9/5/2018 10:43:00 AM

Child support should be mandatory.

Absolutely, a child has a right to be supported by two parents. You don't get to give that right away on behalf of your children.


But a guy making a ton of $$ -- why would he have to give the mom more $ than a guy with a middle class job giving adequate or more amounts?

Because children have a right to be supported in the lifestyle they are accustomed to. We don't punish kids because their parents can't get along. People lose sight of the fact that everything is done in the best interest of the children. It isn't about mom or dad, it's about the kids.
 Ladyinred0407
Joined: 2/6/2016
Msg: 616
Women making the first move...
Posted: 9/5/2018 5:42:27 PM

.................estimates for both childcare fees and recreation costs …………..


OK, I'm somewhat confused here. Am I to understand. …………….The dollar amount of child support awarded to the custodial parent is based on a standard / "table amount", with an estimated allowance, for "childcare fees" AND "recreation costs"?????????

Are you f'n kidding me?

The father of my children was court ordered to pay, THIRTY_TWO DOLLARS and fifty cents A WEEK.
What I did with that whopping sum was up to me...……………(Snicker). For a long time he only paid, less than $5 perweek. I think I bought a gallon of milk. When the court ordered his employer to garnish his paychecks, I then received $32.50. Between the 2 children this covered their school lunches.

RECREATION cost ?????????? ………………."Hey guys, mom's goin' for walk, get your shoes on"!
 TomásIasan
Joined: 5/17/2018
Msg: 617
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Women making the first move...
Posted: 9/5/2018 9:25:19 PM
It's 1% of his yearly income a payment, than goes down increments of .25 after the first child so second would get 0.75 etc provided it's not cause financial hardship of the support payer, no higher than 1% per payment or month times it by 12 months. Not much right? a grand total of 12% of annual wages for one child going down incrementally. Except you for get to add their child benefit tax they get every month based on the ladies income. Storm there would get roughly 387 dollars per kid so about 1200 a month for the children times that by 12 months that's 14k the children bring into the home without child support. So lets say her hubby makes same as her that's another 470 dollars for the first child 387 for the second child 179 for the third child a month in child support she is going to asking for. So there's another 12k work who needs a job with that income already? 26k a year and not even working say if she worked at 560 wk that's 29k a yr abouts she is over 56k she can't live or manage with? This is these women logic and ability with income.
 julystorm22
Joined: 6/15/2018
Msg: 618
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Women making the first move...
Posted: 9/5/2018 9:33:35 PM
The form I filled out basically asked what the expenses were prior to the split. So, for instance, my one daughter was in jazz and hip hop dance and the other one was in 4H and soccer. But I chose not to fill out that part because it was optional. The table amount isn't. And the court can impute income which means they can say that such-and-such parent should be making x-amount dollars so my ex, who is "unemployed", was imputed to make $25,000 a year so the table amount is $519 per month.


To look at the table amounts look at this link:
http://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/fl-df/child-enfant/2017/look-rech.asp
 TomásIasan
Joined: 5/17/2018
Msg: 619
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Women making the first move...
Posted: 9/5/2018 10:42:40 PM
So kids get 20k I am off by 6k due the fact he was put as 25k not 47k wow huge difference the kids would actually make more money a year than their father does after deductions and that is somehow supposed to be right and just.

Explain in what world a child needs even close to that a year?

Here in lies the problem a woman on social assistance gets her social assistance with all that exempt for it. Meaning she gets 1400 for social assistance, say 500 month for child support, max 587 times 3 or something for child tax benefit on 3 kids. She says 500 is not enough what the heck?

Here is the best due to lack of knowledge on her part and the guys ability he buys a house, new vehicle she is immediately upset he hasn't violated any laws now she really wants more thinking there is.
Women making the first move...
Posted: 9/6/2018 5:30:33 AM

OK, I'm somewhat confused here. Am I to understand. …………….The dollar amount of child support awarded to the custodial parent is based on a standard / "table amount", with an estimated allowance, for "childcare fees" AND "recreation costs"?????????

Are you f'n kidding me?

No, actually, the non custodial parent is expected to pay part of the costs of the children's activities. Which is only fair, the kids shouldn't suddenly NOT be able to afford dance or swim class because of the parents break up. I don't know about Saskatchewan, but here in Ontario it is really expensive to live. We also have the G.S.T on most items. It's a 13%tax on most items. My sister just signed her grandchildren up for swim lessons, it was around 90.00 per child for eight weeks. Not really all that cheap when you have rent or mortgage , car payment if you're working and need a vehicle. Groceries, which are absolutely, unbelievably, expensive here. Clothing for children, plus school activities. Hydro bills, gas bills, and that is just the basics you need to live. $519.00 for three kids, isn't a tidy sum. Food for 3 children alone would cost you that.


Here in lies the problem a woman on social assistance gets her social assistance with all that exempt for it. Meaning she gets 1400 for social assistance, say 500 month for child support, max 587 times 3 or something for child tax benefit on 3 kids. She says 500 is not enough what the heck?


https://www.toronto.ca/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/99bb-ontario-works-rate-chart-oct2017-tess.pdf

I dont see where a woman on social assistance in Ontario would get 1400.00 per month from them. According to the chart, someone in Ontario, with 3 kids, like July, would get a shelter amount of 744.00, that is for rent. Where can you find a place to rent for 4 people for $744.00 per month? The true cost would be probably around 2000 to 2500.00 per month. The basic needs amount for this same person would be 354.00, you get NO extra for having children. Basic needs include, food, toiletries. The total amount for a single person with 3 children on welfare would be 1098.00 per month. That same person who using July as an example, would receive $519.00
in child support for 3 kids. Up until recently, this was clawed back. So now we are up to 1617.00 per month. We probably haven't even got the rent covered yet!. Im' just guessing here, because I'm not quite sure of the ages of her kids, but lets say July has one child under 6, she would get another 533.00. Plus 2 kids over 6 but under 17, she would get another 900.00. plus another 344.00 from Ontario child benefit. If my calculations are correct, she would receive 3394.00 per month for a family of 4. $40,728.00 per year, for a family of 4. Guess what? You are still below the poverty line. The poverty line for a family of 4 in Ontario is, 41,351.00. So ya, $500.00 may not be enough. Besides, women don't decide how much child support is received. It goes by the tables.

You also have to have receipts for activities and such, the cost is usually shared. If one party makes more they will pay a larger percentage, a judge can and will decide if they are reasonable. They always rule on the side of the kids best interests. They don't give a flying feck about the mom or dad. YOU had them, YOU are going to be responsible for them!


the guys ability he buys a house, new vehicle

If he has the ability to buy a new house and vehicle, perhaps his children ought not to be living in poverty. He certainly shouldn't be whining about the $500.00 a month it costs to support his own children. He's getting off pretty cheap, if you ask me.
 johnfromzelie
Joined: 3/8/2018
Msg: 621
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Women making the first move...
Posted: 9/6/2018 7:37:39 AM

No, actually, the non custodial parent is expected to pay part of the costs of the children's activities. Which is only fair, the kids shouldn't suddenly NOT be able to afford dance or swim class because of the parents break up.
but the parents suddenly can not afford it! if their lifestyle consumed most of their income (or more/in debt), surely there would be a shortage in cash when it was spread between 2 households. while it may not be fair for the kids to suffer, what about the dad that now gets half as much pay, has to rent an apartment, buy anything and everything to put in it and is solely responsible for other bills that exceed his portion of his check? it isn't always that the dads are too cheep to pay, sometimes they just don't have any more to give!
 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 622
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Women making the first move...
Posted: 9/6/2018 9:30:28 AM

Because children have a right to be supported in the lifestyle they are accustomed to.

I don't agree with that statement in it's entirety. By that rationale, a kid has the right not to move to somewhere different. And the law isn't surrounded by that anyway. A basketball player knocks up a gal he was seeing here and there, and then has to pay out hundreds of thousands and thousands to the mom who's a waitress. Take sympathies for said guys out of the way (which may or may not be applicable) -- it's not about Keeping a kid spoiled.

It should be, like paying SS... up-to a certain amount that should make ends comfortably meet. If the woman (or man) wants main support of the kid, it shouldn't give them the right to not have to work -- and to live life to the fullest luxery if the other can afford it.
Women making the first move...
Posted: 9/6/2018 10:53:58 AM

I don't agree with that statement in it's entirety. By that rationale, a kid has the right not to move to somewhere different. And the law isn't surrounded by that anyway. A basketball player knocks up a gal he was seeing here and there, and then has to pay out hundreds of thousands and thousands to the mom who's a waitress. Take sympathies for said guys out of the way (which may or may not be applicable) -- it's not about Keeping a kid spoiled.


It would be like , for example. a secretary being married to a Dr. and them divorcing. Why should the kids suddenly have to live the lifestyle of a secretaries kid rather than the lifestyle of a Dr's kid, which they have been accustomed to? Dr. daddy, doesn't get to deprive his children of their lifestyle, because him and mommy aren't together anymore. It has nothing to do with be spoiled. The children should never have to take a drastic cut in their lifestyle because the parents can't get along. It is Not what is in the best interests of the parents, but the best interests of the kids!

Just like the basketball player doesn't get to deprive his kid of the lifestyle he is entitled to. Not the kids fault daddy decided to screw a waitress. Daddy is still rich and should be providing for that child just like any child he had that was born into wedlock. That kid has a right to be supported by two parents. If one happens to be rich, well, that kid got lucky.
Women making the first move...
Posted: 9/6/2018 11:19:30 AM

but the parents suddenly can not afford it! if their lifestyle consumed most of their income (or more/in debt), surely there would be a shortage in cash when it was spread between 2 households. while it may not be fair for the kids to suffer, what about the dad that now gets half as much pay, has to rent an apartment, buy anything and everything to put in it and is solely responsible for other bills that exceed his portion of his check? it isn't always that the dads are too cheep to pay, sometimes they just don't have any more to give!


Every situation is different. I really don't think as in the case of July's ex being expected to pay $517.00 a month for 3 kids is a lot. That is only around 170 for each kid, which is peanuts. I bet as in most cases of custodial parents, they pay way more than the non custodial parent to raise the kids. I think it cost July way more than 170 a month for each kid.
Non custodial parents are required to spend a certain percentage of their income on child support. It isn't half their income. I get dad's arent always too cheap to pay. I think though, that a lot of men need to realize, most single parents live either at or just above the poverty line. All this talk of women spending all the money on themselves, is for the most part, nonsense. When you are at or just above the poverty line, if the lights are on, they have a roof over their heads, and the kids have clothes on their backs and food in their stomach, the money is probably being well spent.
 TomásIasan
Joined: 5/17/2018
Msg: 625
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Women making the first move...
Posted: 9/6/2018 11:23:56 AM
Cause doctors kid is living with mommy and dr daddy only gets to see them every other week give doctor daddy 50% of the time oh that's right ladies will lose all child support with that. Nope can't share parenting that in itself should be the law equal rights sound about right to you? Equality lets make it a law see how many women want that equality I know a lot of women who will say fvck you. Simply because it's their meal ticket.

Second point of fact you are dropping children from 2 family income to one and saying daddy has to cover all and no a child is not entitled to luxury and no doctor is not paying child support highly doubt any doctor is rejecting paying that and bill and risking his child's future.

So don't change how you meant some shit cause it was said the guy didn't even have a job so those kids should be accustomed to his no income so if the guy wasn't working at all based on your own words she is not entitled to anything. Yet the courts make child support based on possible future in that case? Do it for a doctor possible future he has parkinson's diagnosis guess he won't be working she gets nothing same ideology for every time you can put it in a woman's potential future there is always a backlash coming the other way.

Law should be each parent has kids 50% of the time, no money exchanges hands but the contribute equally to said child's life. Real fvcking hard problem to solve but then all kinds of women would have real serious problems with that too wouldn't they.

Her ex doesn't have a job according to her don't know where you think 517 is alright when he is not working.
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