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Joined: 2/11/2007
Msg: 51
vaccines=autism?????Page 3 of 19    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19)

If so please back-up YOUR facts.

ditto Amore
Joined: 6/26/2008
Msg: 52
Posted: 3/8/2009 8:32:29 PM
My brother in law is a pediatrican and has been in practice in a large city (Miami) for 15 years, and has not once seen any case where vaccines and autism were connected. We discussed the topic in great length a few years ago, he states that it is a genetic disorder.
Vaccinations are the reason many crippling and/or fatal diseases do not affect us today, so that our children can live longer and healthier lives. My great grandparents in mexico were encouraged to have as many children in possible, and to start very young, because usually one or two out of 5 would make it past childhood.
Joined: 6/26/2008
Msg: 53
Posted: 3/8/2009 11:16:13 PM
Somebody, my belief stems from having lengthy discussions with my husbands brother, a practicing pediatrician in Miami, not from a need to disagree with you.
Also, none of my opinions on a forum have nothing to do with my weight and my sons disability. I would have the same opinions if i were stick thin, and my son was not mildly developmentally delayed. I am not obese and not an alcoholic. I am overwight yes bot not obese and in the process of losing weight by running every morning and going to the gym at night, and the most i drink is a margarita every 2 weeks when i meet up with girlfriends, and the occasional glass of wine with dinner.
Anyways, from the topic i thought this was a vaccine discussion not an insult peoples weight discussion.
Being ugly on the inside however, is permanent.
Joined: 6/26/2008
Msg: 54
Posted: 3/9/2009 7:43:21 PM
I dont get your fascination with me, but nonetheless im flattered.
But you're getting creepy and harassing, so, please, leave me alone.
If you would like to go over to health and start a thread called Sweetness is a fat beyatch and discuss my weight over there, (which is not over a BMI of 30), do so. Later hater.

Autism is 90 % hereditary. What the other 10 % is i do not remember, but will ask my brother in law next time we have dinner, i vaguely remember him saying something about the maternal immune system and pregnancy, but dont remember the details of the way he explained it to me.
Joined: 9/23/2007
Msg: 55
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Posted: 3/14/2009 1:24:43 PM
My son developed Autism after having a strong reaction to the MMR vaccine. The correlation exists because people experience it...not sure why some government studies would want to mislead people into thinking all vaccines are safe all the time....

There are good reasons for government and reseachers to minimize the side-effects and the possible long term consequences of widespread vaccinations at such an early age...

It makes me think that they are thinking my son, and a certain percentage of children are expendable...because they are more interested in getting entirely rid of certain diseases, while ignoring the fact that Autism is very serious and there is no cure for it.
Joined: 7/28/2007
Msg: 56
Posted: 3/14/2009 4:46:48 PM
I am a mom of a little boy, now 5 who was already showing signs of dev delay before he had his 18 month shots. That means that he was not walking or talking as he should have been, but nothing dramatic. I was called overly concerned. After his vaccine, he got very ill and lost all speech and could barely walk.
I do not believe that it was the vaccine alone that did this, I think my son was already delayed and for his chemistry, it pushed him over into obilvion. It is irresponsible to not vaccine, but you can ask the practioner what the volume of thermerosal is in the mix. Is your child in great health, developing normally.... then likely nothing will happen. If your child is already not ok or developing normally, then adding another toxin into a toxic body is not wise. We line up the child for the greater good, but do not consider the indiviual at the moment in time.
My son has been in intense therapy for 3 years. I opened an early intervention center to help other families. There is no one reason. There are a mulitude of things that can bring it on, vaccines can contribute to the slippery slope, but only if there was something already happening. This is my opinion based solely on my experience.
I wish you the best of luck.
Joined: 3/15/2008
Msg: 57
Posted: 3/17/2009 2:29:16 AM
i have an autistic son... and no.. the vaccines are not the cause.. autism is in genetics... it is either heretitary.. or is a birth defect... some women who experience trauma in the early stages of pregnancy can disrupt brain deveolpment causing autism... most people that have autistic children... have had incest happen along in thier family... sad fact.. but true.. autism is one of the most common birth defects due to incest!!! and it could have happened a hundred years ago in your family... and thro genetics... it happens!!! so no.. autism is not a result of vaccines... as one person earlier said... at 18 months is when autism starts to show thro... all children whom have it.. were born with it.. Wikipedia offers some awesome info...
Joined: 6/3/2008
Msg: 58
Posted: 6/18/2009 9:39:54 PM
I can say one thing is for sure, lack of vaccines in addition to exposure to these diseases you could be protecting your children from can lead to death.

Science can not be made to prove anything it wants to. Statistics do that.
Joined: 6/14/2009
Msg: 59
Posted: 6/19/2009 5:30:39 PM
The British doctor who made the original claim that Autism was related to an MMR vaccine fixed his data.

This whole craze came from a study that was, well, a lie.

Why do some parents of autistic children swear there's a link between childhood vaccinations and autism? Unless you're a psychologist or psychiatrist, you probably won't notice signs of autism until they are something like 18 months. A number of vaccines are given from 12 - 15 months. Thus, shortly following vaccinations you notice that your child is a bit different and go to the doctor to check his or her development.
Joined: 9/4/2006
Msg: 60
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Posted: 6/19/2009 5:40:59 PM
sciguyross, some parents sweawr there's a link because the mmr is given around the time when at 18 months, doctors pay more attention to development of a child. At this stage, you can either see if your child is developing with others at this stage or is way behind. Even at 18 month, it's still a bit early to diagnose a child with autism other than through behavioral, social, communication issues, and a ct/mri scan that may factor to why they think a child may be autistic. If the vaccine was the culprit, why isn't it targeting girls at that age, it's mostly boys who have autism, but someone can correct me on that.

I believe they took the mercury out of the mmr for a few years, yet there's still an increase of autism, so i doubt it's due to vaccinations. i think they are stressing too much on diagnosing at autism at early age that they are making a big list to what a child does may be autistic which is going crazy.
Joined: 6/3/2008
Msg: 61
Posted: 6/20/2009 1:13:42 PM

Yes... I belive it does cause extreme autism in some cases. This has been proved in studies. Do an internet search.

I believe the color we see in a clear sky from Earth is green. It was proven in a study where I wrote down a bunch of statistics where people saw the sky as green.

* The study participants have been from birth told that the color you see as "blue" is called "green".

Look at the clear sky. Does it appear to be green to you?

Do actual research (this may come as a surprise, but the stuff you find on the internet isn't always correct or real) and you would learn the study you are talking about was based on lies. Recent studies show that there is no connection between these vaccines and development and brain disorders.


What about the mother who drowned her infants because a voice told her to?

Note: This is my own personal opinion of no medical merit other than a mother who watched her child convulse, scream for weeks and show such a dramatic personality change after his last shot!!!!

So you never disciplined your child? Never told your child, "No." and gotten an adverse reaction?

Here's what I cannot wrap my head around... why on Earth would doctors, scientists and pharmacists spend years and years developing vaccines if they were not important?

* Measles is a leading cause of death among young children even though a safe and cost-effective vaccine is available to prevent the disease.
* In 2007, there were 197 000 measles deaths globally - nearly 540 deaths every day or 22 deaths every hour.
* More than 95% of measles deaths occur in low-income countries with weak health infrastructure.
* Measles vaccination efforts have reaped major public health gains, resulting in a 74% drop in measles deaths between 2000 and 2007 worldwide - a drop of about 90% in the eastern Mediterranean and Africa regions.
* In 2007, about 82% of the world's children received one dose of measles vaccine by their first birthday through routine health services, up from 72% in 2000. (Two doses of the vaccine are recommended to ensure immunity, as about 15% of vaccinated children fail to develop immunity from the first dose.)

(source: World Health Organization)
Joined: 6/14/2009
Msg: 62
Posted: 6/20/2009 1:33:40 PM
To everyone:

This article by the National Institute of Health talks about autism and the MMR vaccine. The National Institute of Health is the primary way the government funds medical research.

To wanderbaby:

I guess that the age for MMR must have changed recently. I was going off the current CDC recommendations.

CT and MRI would only show the anatomy of the brain. Are there anatomical differences in the brains of autistic people? A functional MRI (fMRI), on the other hand, shows brain activity. I'm sure that there have been fMRI studies done on brain activity of autistic and non-autistic people when shown images and videos, when asked questions, etc. Those would be interesting to read.

In a lecture from a child psychiatrist, I learned that autistic children often don't show separation anxiety at 8 months like other babies do. That's not enough for a diagnosis, certainly, but it does send up red flags. If a baby does not get upset when his or her primary caretaker leaves, doctors will watch for autistic spectrum disorders.

This twin study ( ) would suggest that autism is largely but not completely genetic. Identical twins come from the same egg, and have the exact same DNA. Fraternal twins (each from a separate fertilized egg) share no more DNA than any other siblings.

"In the current study, in 22 of 23 pairs of same-egg twins both partners were found to suffer from autism. But of 17 pairs of two-egg twins studied, in only five cases were both twins autistic."
Joined: 6/14/2009
Msg: 63
Posted: 6/20/2009 2:13:05 PM
To sweet sensations:

It is common and normal not to feel well to a certain extent after a vaccine. The vaccine has to "look" dangerous enough to the immune system for it to respond. After your immune system responds and "wins", you have white blood cells left behind that are specifically ready to fight germs that "look" like what they encountered from the vaccine.

The MMR causes seizures in 1 in 3,000 kids. ( ) That is not a fact that you know and doctors are ignoring.

As for the screaming for weeks and the behavior changes, it's hard to say without knowing more, but remember that just because two things happen close to the same time does not necessarily mean that they have the same cause or that one caused the other. Perhaps the dentist found my first cavity after I started taking multivitamins. Does that mean the multivitamins gave me a cavity?

Though things like Autism, Aspergers, Downs, Williams syndrome, Fragile X syndrome, pervasive developmental disorders, and all kinds of developmental disabilities are very tough for the individuals and loved ones affected, I think special needs kids make the world a better place. They remind us what is really important in life, not to take for granted the good things that we have, and to enjoy simple things in life. By knowing them, we learn how to love better, knowing they may be limited in how they can express love in return. I have fond memories from working at a camp for special needs kids named Camp Barnabas.
Joined: 6/9/2009
Msg: 64
Posted: 6/21/2009 5:50:34 AM

I think special needs kids make the world a better place. They remind us what is really important in life, not to take for granted the good things that we have, and to enjoy simple things in life. By knowing them, we learn how to love better, knowing they may be limited in how they can express love in return.

Very well put, I couldnt agree more!
Joined: 6/14/2009
Msg: 65
Posted: 6/22/2009 5:39:32 PM

FACT!!!! they are dangerous to a child's developing immune system.

Actually, being exposed to germs and things that look like germs (vaccines) is CRITICAL in developing an immune system. If a child grew up in a clean room, he or she would have next to no resistance to pathogens.

FACT!!!! doctors,etc get paid bonuses to give these shots to children.

Doctors would make so much more money if diseases went rampant through society.

FACT!!!! you can get the disease even by being so called 'immunised' (documented/proved many times over), and sometimes from the vaccine itself (documented/proved many times over) .

1. Sometimes a person won't respond adequately to a vaccine to gain resistance. This is particularly true of the elderly. Other times, in the case of viruses, the vaccine will protect against a different strain than the one that spreads through the population. In either case, the vaccine did no harm.

2. Only attenuated ("live") vaccines, which use significantly weakened forms of the microbe, have the potential to cause a (usually milder) form of the disease. This only is a concern for people that are immunocompromised (have weakened immune systems from AIDS, chemotherapy, etc.). Doctors don't give attenuated vaccines to patients they suspect to be immunocompromised. Killed vaccines (fragments of the virus or bacteria) and recombinant vaccines (from genetic modifications to the microbial DNA or RNA), do not cause disease even in the immunocompromised. (If you have uncontrolled AIDS, any vaccine is pretty much pointless, though.)

Enough said - but do your own research, and don't be swept along by the mainstream hype!!!

Some people just naturally mistrust the government, the media, the scientific community, etc. Are you a conspiracy theorist on a lot of issues?

I submit that the Centers for Disease Control (CDC ) and the World Health Organization (WHO) are where you should begin your research. They are the leaders in US and global health policy respectively.

One look at this website tells you that it was made by an amateur with minimal skill in web design. Wouldn't a reputable source have the resources to make a decent website?
Joined: 6/14/2009
Msg: 66
Posted: 6/23/2009 3:37:58 PM
Ok. I tried to figure out if Dr. J. Anthony Morris is a real person. A search on Pubmed (huge US government database of abstracts of health-related journal articles) gave no results. That made me think he never even existed. Well, I later found out that he did indeed work for the FDA, but was later "involuntarily removed" from the FDA after several hearings. The other thing I might mention is that this quote seems to come from the 1970s. Much of the material on this site seems to talk about what happened in the 1970s. Why not look at recent research and what doctors are saying today? Even if it were true that vaccines weren't that good in the 1970s, why would that mean that our current vaccines are not effective?

"Dr. Morris was subsequently involuntarily removed from government service by FDA, and his removal was upheld after a series of hearings and appeals. June Osborne, In the Matter of Witch Hunts, 240 J.A.M.A. 1616 (October 6, 1978); and General Accounting Office, Answers to Questions on Selected FDA Bureau of Biolonics’ Regulation Activities, HRD-80-55 (1980)"




By the way, J.A.M.A. stands for Journal of the American Medical Association. It's not as prestigious as the New England Journal of Medicine, but it is still widely read.

If these doctors listed on this website are experts, one should be able to find out where they work. Hospitals often let you search through the credentials of every physician they employ on their websites. Surely the site would be more credible if it told you where each of these doctors is working. Why not tell us the articles they have published in research journals, at least? They are, after all, experts correct?

I also can't seem to find a physical street address nor a mailing address to contact the site. That's a big red flag on whether information on the web can be trusted. For comparison, here's the corporate information I found about who's behind
Joined: 6/14/2009
Msg: 67
Posted: 6/23/2009 3:48:46 PM
If you have the scientific background or tenacity to read scientific journal articles, you can look up the results of studies from the source, rather than second or third hand information.

For access to freely available health-related journal articles, go to this database.

Here's an example of efficacy of the influenza vaccine.
Note: understanding the appendix of that article requires familiarity with matrix algebra.
Joined: 5/31/2007
Msg: 68
Posted: 9/5/2009 12:23:24 PM
I realize this thread is 3 years old but can I wait to get that vaccination that some people think leads to autism? Could I elect to have it at say, age 2 or 3 rather than 18 months?
Joined: 6/3/2008
Msg: 69
Posted: 9/5/2009 3:16:11 PM

I realize this thread is 3 years old but can I wait to get that vaccination that some people think leads to autism? Could I elect to have it at say, age 2 or 3 rather than 18 months?

There is no vaccine that leads to autism. DNA mutations occur during DNA replication (and can occur with radiation exposure), meaning that if your child has the genetic variations that make him or her more likely to get it, there is nothing you can do about it. In the future, there will be genetic testing available to discover if you or your partner carry these mutations, and if your child has these as well.

Please do not listen to media hyped BS, especially when it comes to the health of your children. These are deadly diseases that caused major wipeouts in human population, and it's important to give your children immunities against them, especially since there was a surge in non-vaccinations because of the common misinformation.
Joined: 6/26/2008
Msg: 70
Posted: 9/5/2009 3:24:42 PM
Sure you can wait, are you confident that your child wont get measles/mumps/rubella/polio/varicella/ whatnot in the meantime?

I think with all these parents not vaccinating due to this bullshit hype about autism being caused by vaccines will eventually see a resurgence in the deadly childhood diseases. Smarten up parents, vaccinate your kids.
Joined: 9/23/2007
Msg: 71
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Posted: 9/9/2009 11:29:32 AM
There are safer ways to vaccinate than we are currently doing. This is a fact.

We have been lax about thinking ahead. The original vaccines were created because there was a deadly disease that was absolutely horrible, and this method worked. But at a small cost of a few people. We were highly motivated to find ANY way to deal with polio, for instance.

Now we have twenty more vaccinations we give to very tiny babies...and nobody has really thought much about how many we can actually give to an infant without changing the infant's immune system in a negative way. What is the upper limit? 50? 100? Are we actually going to consider putting a copy or an original of every deadly disease known to man into every infant before they reach the age of two? Does anyone know how this will ultimately affect our children? The answer is NO.

We were lax about thinking about the effect of adding more vaccines, because the original mercury preservative was meant for one dose only. Twenty times that amount is way more toxic. Although there is really no "safe" level of mercury for a person.

It is a toxin, and the best amount of mercury in a baby is zero. That is also a fact.

We were lax in thinking about the effect it might have on a baby of reving up their immune system towards more than one deadly disease at a time. Did we study infants to see if their immune systems were developed enough to handle more than one vaccine at a time consistently? No.

Did we study what to do if we reved up an infant's immune system and it stayed constantly reved up? Do we know how to calm it down so the infant doesn't develop chronic immune regulation problems down the line? No.

Did we study other ways to deliver a vaccine besides injecting it? Yes. And the reason is that some of our immune system was designed to function at the nose and mouth, where the mucous membranes function to deal with invaders. Most diseases do not enter the human body directly into the bloodstream. They enter through the nose, eyes, mouth, genitals. The bodies' natural defense mechanisms were designed to face the first assault at these points, not directly in the bloodstream.
Yet, we still use injections for most immunizations.

Many diseases we are trying to eradicate are not as serious as the first ones we developed vaccinations for. This means we are not looking anymore for safer ways to deal with them. Vaccinations were never designed to handle every type of human disease. It probably isn't the best way to do this kind of health care.

If a disease isn't deadly, and we aren't at a huge risk of being exposed to it, then we need to balance the risks to many of our children of getting vaccinated for everything against the benefits of eradicating a disease with a vaccination alone.

Every vaccination needs a preservative, for one thing. Unless you can somehow get a "fresh" vaccination, every baby will be getting an injection of a preservative at the same time as they are getting the deadly disease pushed into their bloodstream. This preservative dose accumulates, and infants livers are not fully developed until age 3, and so might not be able to eliminate the toxic preservative.

We never planned to look into the genetic differences of various children and how that affects their reactions to vaccines. Some of these reactions are deadly. And so each time a parent brings a child to be vaccinated, they are taking the chance that their child's genetic makeup is the kind that will make the vaccination deadly to him. And so the vaccination is now itself a deadly disease. Only we have control over this one.

Let's take the control we do have and work to make vaccinations safer and more effective, and not to use the shotgun approach and vaccinate everyone in exactly the same way--we know for a fact that some people cannot get vaccinations without becoming seriously ill or dying. These children and adults should be allowed to live. They have a right to live.

There are other health care practices that could keep us safe from the risk of having a small part of our population un-vaccinated. Already we currently live in a society where not everyone gets vaccinated for many reasons. So we should not let the idea of vaccination make us lax about taking regular precautions to avoid illness. We can find better methods of public hygiene, and other types of medications and lifestyle practices that don't rely so heavily on trying only to "eradicate" the disease.

Although complete eradication is an admirable goal, and one worth pursuing, there will always be genetic mutations of viruses and bacteria that will cause us to continue to have to deal with public health concerns in the future. At what point will vaccination itself become unviable? At that point we will seriously be in trouble if we have no other resources to rely on.

A safer way might be to vaccinate only:
with thimerisol-free vaccines
with a minimum amount of total preservative (shake the bottle, etc.)
only one disease at a time
space them out long enough for the infant's body to get rid of the preservative before doing the next
space them out long enough for the infant's immune response to go back to normal before initiating the next immune challenge
never, ever vaccinate a sick child, wait until the illness is over
don't give Tylenol before vaccination, since this can affect the natural immune response

* Research needs to continue to find safer ways of preserving vaccinations. (Refrigeration-only comes to mind.)
* Research needs to continue to discover for which genetic types of humans vaccinations are fatal, or will cause serious chronic immune disruption, so that parents can make an informed choice about EACH vaccine.
* Research needs to continue to discover and educate the population about other public health practices that can protect our health so that we have several lines of defense against deadly diseases besides relying on vaccinations, in the event we "discover" there IS an upper limit to how often we can vaccinate an individual in their lifetime or at least in early childhood.
* Research needs to continue to discover ways to calm the immune system of a child or adult if/when a vaccination causes a reaction that does not stop on its own, or that continues toward an unhealthy process leading to chronic disease, like aut0-immune disorders, and severe allergies.
* Research needs to continue to find the best timing for a vaccination. There is probably an optimal time to vaccinate. For instance, many vaccinations require multiple doses because the immune system changes over time. Some of this is due to the child's development. There is also probably a "sub-optimal" time to vaccinate. In other words, there might be times in a child's development when it is the worst time to vaccinate.
* Research needs to continue to find ways to create vaccines that don't rely on animal proteins being injected into human bodies. This is one of the reasons many people are allergic to eggs. Many vaccines are created by injecting the diseases into live eggs.
* Research needs to continue to find a way to decide which deadly diseases are going to be best dealt with by a vaccination, and which we will deal with another way. Because there are too many diseases to vaccinate against all of them, since there are always going to be new ones appearing. There needs to be a process of thinking about what factors/elements are most important.

* We need to study if there is a better way to vaccinate, like vaccinating regions instead of everybody. Perhaps it isn't necessary to get vaccinated for certain diseases in every area at all times. For instance, when are we going to ever stop vaccinating for a particular disease?

Polio, for instance, is not a common disease anymore. Unfortunately, it was never completely removed from the planet. Governments all store deadly diseases for future use as a biological weapon or as a biological museum of DNA. We will never get rid of any deadly disease totally because of this possiblity. And because we can never prove completely to everyone's satisfaction that a disease is completly "gone," then no disease can ever be eliminated from the list of vaccinations, under our current vaccination policy.

My child had a bad reaction to a vaccine. I had a right to know that this was going to be a possiblity. Unfortunately, my Doctor didn't have access to the information I needed to make an informed decision about my son's vaccination. I want that information available for the next generation of parents so they won't have to go through what I went through. And if they do, it will be part of a much better informed choice than the one I was given and have to live with.

Everyone lives with the problem of the children who have been hurt by vaccinations. It affects the entire family, and the community. They require special education, special medical care, and often housing and supervision for the rest of their lives. I would like this "deadly" disease treated with the same care and concern about its "prevalence" as the ones that the vaccinations that caused it are trying to eradicate.
Joined: 2/20/2009
Msg: 72
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Posted: 9/9/2009 6:11:09 PM
"Thimerosal has been removed from or reduced to trace amounts in all vaccines routinely recommended for children 6 years of age and younger, with the exception of inactivated influenza vaccine (see Table 1). A preservative-free version of the inactivated influenza vaccine (contains trace amounts of thimerosal) is available in limited supply at this time for use in infants, children and pregnant women. Some vaccines such as Td, which is indicated for older children (≥ 7 years of age) and adults, are also now available in formulations that are free of thimerosal or contain only trace amounts. Vaccines with trace amounts of thimerosal contain 1 microgram or less of mercury per dose."

"Some people believe increased exposure to thimerosal (from the addition of important new vaccines recommended for children) explains the higher prevalence in recent years. However, evidence from several studies examining trends in vaccine use and changes in autism frequency does not support such an association. Furthermore, a scientific review* by the Institute of Medicine (IOM) concluded that "the evidence favors rejection of a causal relationship between thimerosal-containing vaccines and autism." "
Joined: 9/23/2007
Msg: 73
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Posted: 9/9/2009 8:22:32 PM
It's kind of scary to think that the FDA and the CDC might have a vested interest in the outcome of studies about vaccines that they consider mandatory and have recommended for years. But they do have a vested interest.

And so maybe they are a bit biased and motivated to prove the saftey of what they have been advocating. If mercury is safe, then why is it so important for them to reassure us that it is not in use in any more vaccines?

If they were to come out and say that mistakes were made or things were miscalculated, lawsuits would proliferate. And we couldn't have that.

So why can't we have accountability without lawsuits? Why isn't there any in-between ground between total acceptance of everything that is told to us, and a lawsuit? This makes it very hard for the medical system and the political system that deals with medical issues to adapt to change, to new knowledge, new developments, and new health threats. And even to respond honestly to requests for change in saftey regulations from groups of concerned parents.
Joined: 1/16/2006
Msg: 74
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Posted: 9/10/2009 7:09:35 AM

Lets see the CDC, the HWO and the AMA all say to get kids immunized, but some under educated crack-pot goes it is a bad idea and people stop it. WOW if you get the facts and do a risk/benifit check it is not hard to pick. Get the immunizations, keep them updated and make sure laws are in place that requiers them for all. Will some kids have a bad effect? May be, but if the immunitations are stopped 1000 time or more will have bad effects. Again it is not a hard pick for some on with an IQ over 50.
Joined: 7/22/2006
Msg: 75
Posted: 9/23/2009 3:01:23 PM
Cherie, I had my son when i was 18 and i went back to school through a young parent support program, where the children were watched upstairs as parents did the schooling downstairs. So when my son was 18mnths he was at the scholl where i was and we had a nurse come in
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