|Being rapedPage 3 of 5 (1, 2, 3, 4, 5)|
|Alex...Adam has been raped, therefore he understands the devastation that it can do to a human being...not just women, but men get raped as well-we just don't hear about it as often nor is there any community support for men who have been violated. |
Rape is not a sexual activity, it is an act of hate
it is a control issue, it is about violence.
and just for the record, bullying is also an act of control and of violence....but at a different level...you are not totally incorrect to equate the two.
Posted: 12/7/2006 2:46:15 PM
|relax dude....he just gets upset over the subject as a whole.....don't take it personally. ....|
These are issues that people who have been raped have to deal with....a little bit of compassion goes a long way.
you cannot change the things that have happened to you, but you can change how YOU react/deal with them.....only you have control over you.
alex...Please keep adding to this, I am interested in hearing more of your discussion, you have made some valid points.
Posted: 12/7/2006 2:54:11 PM
|You know Alex, comments like that don't really help your case any.|
And remember, it's not just men who rape others.
Women rape men just as often. It's simply not reported as often.
And yeah, what you went through with the beatings and such... I've gone through that too. As well as most people I know. Everyone seems to have been bullied at some point.
And humiliated... like being pulled out of the bleachers during a football game and having a bunch of guys kick the crap out of you, while everyone stares and laughs.
That was NOTHING compared to the soul shattered pain you feel after being a rape victim.
Posted: 12/7/2006 3:24:04 PM
|Alex....you are not wrong in comparing the two...and please forgive people who don't understand totally what you are trying to say. Yes, there is some comparisons, but it is closer to comparing a macintosh apple to a granny smith green apple....the same thing but slightly different...|
no one here is trying to down play what you are feeling or what has happened to you ....no one deserves to be violated in any matter ever.
alex...ignore Adam's testimonies, he bought us all dinner if we left them for him....
just kidding.....he deserves every one of them, he is a good friend to have in my corner.
Posted: 12/7/2006 4:12:47 PM
|I'm not trying to say that what you went through wasn't horrible. Cause it was. A lot of people have to face that. Myself included.|
But, it pales in comparison to being a rape victim. Which I was.
So, yes, I've experienced both... and I can safely say that I'd rather get my ass kicked a thousand times over than be raped again.
Posted: 12/7/2006 6:56:53 PM
|because they are both bullying....|
I do not disagree with one word you wrote so eloquently, but being bullyied excessively at a young age can instill some of the same type of fears, pains, emotional damage, and loss of self confidence as being raped. ...just not in the exact same manner. Someone took something from him(his freedom to go wherever) if just for a few minutes...with out his permission. He was violated, in his opinion. He is asking himself, why did this happen to ME?
It is similar, not exactly the same, the OP is not incorrect in his comparisons, he just started off this thread a little overzealous.
the OP he is suffering from some kind of trama and in his opinion, it is equal to rape...
I am more concerned about why he has not moved past it?
Why does he chose to allow it to still bother him?
Posted: 12/7/2006 8:16:58 PM
|OP = If I remember corectly the statistics on women being raped is heavily in favour of being raped by men they already know. Isn't that correct?|
OP = Anyways, isn't playing that kind of roll sending mixed signals - to all men???
No. The old thread you are speaking of includes 2 people who love and trust each other. The * mixed signals* you speak of dont apply in those cases. This is a planned out sexual scenario between 2 people who trust and love each other. Its unlikely the man in one of those cases is going to do a flip of conscious and believe his wife/gf is looking for a real rape.
You also mentioned * to all men* this also doesnt apply here. All men are not taking part in this. Just her man.
OP = 1) Being labeled as a rapist would be devastating.
This doesnt apply here either. The man taking part in this isnt labeled as a rapist. WHo exactly would give him that title?
OP = 2) What is it about being raped which is so devastating?
This is really a whole other topic. I could only imagine the many ways this would obviously be devastating. Im sure you can to.
Your next 2 paragraphs speak of your own bullying experience and how you feel you possibly deserved it. You then indicate the women who have lived with their own rape possibly put themselves in a position to deserve it. You are delusional at best.
OP = Maybe I'm missing something.
There is no maybe about it.
and our final conclusion for the evening...
You took your own experiences....read thru a consenting sexual rape fantasy thread....got confused somehow....figured you would compare the 2 and apparently found similarities...and thought of the brilliant idea of posting your misunderstandings here camouflaged as your opinion of....
the women who decide to partake in a fantasy rape scenario with their loved one, are really asking for an eventual rape in the future, and will possibly deserve it.
Im curious if your own mother had a similar sexual experience in her past with a loved one, then found herself an actual rape victim....would you still be so confused?
Posted: 12/9/2006 5:27:35 PM
|OP, there’s never a ‘side’ to a rapist’s story…they rape because they want power and control over another person.|
As far as ‘rape fantasies’ go I doubt any person, male or female, would truly ever want to be raped, and I also doubt that their rape fantasies contain elements of what a rape truly is. Sure, some people may want their partner to be a bit more aggressive or dominant; that is not the same thing as wanting them to be a rapist. And no one wants to be raped, even by someone they know. Also, sharing fantasies with a partner isn’t’ sending mixed signals when both people are being open and communicating about their private sexual life. Assuming it’s sending ‘mixed signals’ is like assuming a girl wanted to be raped because she wore a short skirt…both are equally stupid assumptions.
While being beaten is a bad experience, I don’t believe one can compare it to being raped. Sure, both are physical acts, but rape plays a much bigger mental part…and some people don’t get over it, while others get help and get one with having a good life in spite of what was done to them.
As for your other comparisons, I feel a rapist or child molester is much worse than someone who picks a fight with another person…personally, I feel that rapists and child molesters should be in jail for the rest of their lives, if not executed. I wouldn’t say the same about a bully, because bullies are essentially cowards and can be handled much easier than a rapist or child molester…and many bullies grow out of it, while rapists and child molesters don’t.
Being raped is nothing like being in a fight…how could you even think to compare them? Especially if you’re comparing a woman being raped by a much strong man to a guy being beaten by another guy. And as for ‘wrong place at the wrong time’ what BS…do you have any idea how many women are raped by people who broke into their home? How many were grabbed walking to their cars?
As far as women being raped by men they know, there’s something called ‘date rape’…it doesn’t have to necessarily be someone they know well, though in some cases it is…but the fact is that rape is a violation committed against someone against their will and anyone who commits such a crime is a scumbag who should be put away forever.
|:: sigh ::..... Why am I posting?|
Posted: 2/4/2007 1:30:04 PM
|I'm going to get killed on this one, but I'm going to be a dissenter here.|
I think physical assault can be just as bad, if not worse, then rape. I don't agree with either action, do not get me wrong, they are both terrible, but....
I've seen pictures of people beaten so badly they couldn't walk, talk. I've seen people who were abused to the point where they weren't just physically, but emotionally destroyed. To the people in this thread who argue that being physically beaten is somehow *less* damaging because it's not psychological, you have no clue what you're talking about. Honestly.
I will not buy any argument that a person forcing a girl to have vaginal intercourse is equivelent to the person who is now paraplegic because he was mobbed in a parking lot. If you're going to tell me that the two are not equivelent because of the psychological damage inflicted, or that the rape is "life changing", then you've got issues. There are degrees of both crimes, but one is not automaticall above the other.
Oh and, I've never been physically beaten up. I've been emotionally bullied to the point where I came home in tears every day for four years though, so I believe I have some right to speak on the subject, especially in defence of the OP. Prolonged bullying is as much about power and control as rape.
As to Adam, I would like to only comment that I would like to hear your opinion on the thread about the male rapist in the "Ask a Guy" forums. I will not comment on your experiences, I do not think I have a right to do that. I will simply say that I am sorry to hear you had to experience that first-hand.
As to the OP, I do believe there's something wrong in a society that legitimizes assault but considers rape heinous. The two both are physically and emotionally scaring, deal with both. I don't mean with retribution either, it solves nothing. Find a way to prevent them from hurting others, that's a better goal.
Oh, and I sympathize with those *accused* of rape whom in fact are innocent. There is a stigma attached to such an accusation, and in a moment their lives are ruined. As an educated male, that to me scares me far more then most things, being accused of something. I would *never* do something like that, but i'm an overweight white male, all it takes is one girl to want to get even for some minor slight and my reputation would be permanently damaged. That, truly scares me, and yes, I believe that's wrong.
|:: sigh ::..... Why am I posting?|
Posted: 2/4/2007 11:04:42 PM
|i find the rape fantasy disturbing and would prefer to hear this role play as "being dominated"|
makes much more sense to me
|:: sigh ::..... Why am I posting?|
Posted: 2/4/2007 11:25:20 PM
A violation of a person's body in any form should be considered a heinous act...
I'd raise no objections.
I will say, is that being raped means a violation of ones body, and as has been said before, a control over and not sexual act.
I can cite several forms of physical abuse that are the same, but I don't disagree with the premise.
To say that anyone who is raped is just overpowered and taken isn't really considering the anger involved in the act.
Yes, I imagine beatings involve no anger.
and you are just as apt to end up beaten, in the hospital with stitches, broken bones, broken mind, because face it, the act is to demean you as a person, take your power away from you, and ultimately let you know who is the weaker one....
Once again, I can cite several forms of physical abuse that are the same and are equally demeaning.
sounds a bit like being beaten up.
That's because they are both, contextually at the extreme, the same.
A true assault of the body in any form should be recognised equally
Yet they aren't. Society and individuals in general seem to feel rape is more heinous, I dont agree with that.
The point is here, when someone attempts to steal the essence of your spirit, your freedom, it is a crime....
Yes, but there are different punishments. A girl I discussed this with before I posted said "simple" rape (and I cringe with the use of "simple") carried a significantly lighter sentence then rape with a weapon, for example. However, in either case, the punishment for assault was generally less then that of rape, which to me, is illogical.
But to say rape is a sugar coated event in order to make your point about being beat up is really saying something about you.. sounds like you have some indepth healing to accomplish and that truly you must feel raped and want the recognition of the hateful act committed against you.... I get it....
I'm going to assume you're talking about the OP; since I haven't sugar coated rape at all, but people in this thread seem to enjoy sugar coating assault.
Just my $0.02.
Posted: 2/4/2007 11:44:58 PM
|The sad thing is - there's no evidence in that case, all of it is circumstancial.|
I bet you he get's convicted anyway.
|Apparently everyone failed logic?|
Posted: 2/5/2007 3:10:24 AM
Uh, no you can’t. Not really... Not unless it involves sodomy.
Though this was not to which I refer, it is technically still a form of physical abuse.
The OP and Pyke do not understand any of this. They only see the ‘end physical result’ and think that’s all that matters.
Really? Interesting assertion given your future statement implies the end result (psychologically speaking of the most intimate act) is all that matters. I suppose this is not concerned only with the end result? You cannot compare someone who is quadraplegic or even dead because of an assault to someone who is raped. They are not even in the same ballpark.
Are there some instances of rape which are worse? Sure, when they put the person in the quadraplegic's chair or in the coffin, then they suffered worse.
Or are narrisistic enough to think their past gives them the right to the same sort of trauma.
I love argumentum ad hominum. Consequently, I do not claim I remotely have any idea of what it is like to be raped. I do claim I understand abuse, in at least 1 form. I would not be as presumptious to rank it or compare it to rape because, I view it as a very different type of crime. The harm I suffered was nearly entirely psychological, and in no way can compare to a rape or physical assault.
I do not make the contention it does. I do make the contention that rape is not, automatically, worse then assault, just because it's rape. The two are not the same, please at least avoid fallacies if you insist on challenging this reasonable assertion. Thanks.
Sorry, but it doesn’t. Rape is VERY different from being beaten up.
Why? Because it’s not just about being demeaned, degraded, violated and overpowered (which you feel from being beaten) but the fact the most intimate act (involving the most intimate parts of the body) known to men is being forced on someone. It’s like comparing a clean bone break to a shattered bone. Physical abuse may be close to the demeaning, degrading, violating and overpowering, but it will never be more.
So, they are very different (by your argument) but, by your own argument:
That's an awful lot of similiarities. In fact, the only evidence you produce is that one is an "intimate" act. This is partially true, because culturally you're correct, though biologically you aren't. However, since psychology is based on culture, I will agree that this differs from physical assault, which does not involve intimacy. However, physical assault can leave long lasting psychological effects that contextually can be just as bad. You're making assumptions here.
That is a fact. Case closed.
No, that's an opinion. Big difference.
The case will never be closed until the legal system and society recognizes both actions as wrong and heinous. I do not agree with rape, I do not believe it's right, and I do not wish it on my worst enemy. That being said, to state rape is always worse then assault is just blatently stupid and irresponsible.
|The Point: |
Posted: 2/5/2007 12:09:14 PM
|What i'm trying to convey - is society DOES compare them.|
They automatically assume rape is worse all the time, and the punishments are handed out accordingly. I do not feel that is right.
I do not condone rapists, and I'm sorry for anyone who had to go through that, but the point is ultimately that society should treat both crimes as heinous, and evaluate them on a case by case basis.
There should be more consideration into the whether the victim as well, the state they are in, etc.
As to the rapist -> My focus is not on them, it is on those who are *wrongly* accused of rape, a girl in this thread brought up an example of it. That man's reputation is ruined and he didn't do a thing, that's a problem that should be fixed.
|The Point: |
Posted: 2/5/2007 12:52:50 PM
|Blackjello, I don't know why some women have rape fantasies--but the fact is, some women do.|
I think most men would bend over backwards to make a girl who had been raped feel comfortable with sex. There is a LOT of sympathy out there for female rape victims.
I suspect there is damned little sympathy for male victims. Hopefully, I will never find out firsthand.
|Apparently everyone failed logic?|
Posted: 2/5/2007 6:31:26 PM
Pyke, until you have experienced BOTH forms of abuse, you have no right to call me stupid and irresponsible. But you obviously haven't, so don't you freaking dare talk to me like that.
I didn't call you stupid and irresponsible, I said that saying rape is always worse than assault is stupid and irresponsible.
"You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be misquoted and used against you in a court of law."
|Apparently everyone failed logic?|
Posted: 2/6/2007 10:21:51 AM
Ok, maybe not always, but often it is. I would much rather have a broken arm.
Which is my point - assault varies. Sometimes people 'only' suffer a broken arm, other times the damage is longer lasting (broken neck, scars, etc). Some people who are assaulted receive burns to 80-90% of their bodies. Some are crippled, and will never walk again. Some are killed outright.
I would never seek to undermine the suffering that a rape victim must go through, but, I don't believe it's right to automatically disregard person "X"'s suffering simply because he/she was assaulted.
Why can you not punish both crimes equally? Why can't we as a society perceive both crimes to be terrible? Both are instances of someone forcing their will onto another, in both cases more for dominance and the rush that they experience then pleasure.
They're both heinous.
And I think the worst thing is that our society re-victimizes women who have been raped throughout the entire proceedure, the reporting process, the physical exams, the trials.
Part of me agrees with you, and part of me doesn't. Partially because, there are examples like the girl on the 2nd page of this thread who know friends who've falsely accused people of rape. They already can ruin an innocent person's life, I am unsure that I want to make that process either.
Then again though, I tend to be the type who would let a thousand guilty people go free then send an innocent person to jail, so that's likely why I feel that way. Ideally, rape victims would not have to go through that, but there has to be such a thing as a right to a trial, if not for the rapists, for those wrongfully accused.
A person who gets mugged in an alley is never asked "why didn't you fight back? you must have been asking for it ..."
They're very different crimes in the sense that, you rarely consent to assault, but frequently consent to sex. The reason this is the case is the trial hinges on whether or not it was rape or consentual, going back to my wrongfully accused statement. I sympathize with the rape victim, but it's true of any victim in our society and the process is established that way to try and ensure that innocent people do not go to prison. It is clearly not very effective, as innocent people often do go to prison, but it's better then nothing.
While a woman who doesn't fight to within an inch of her life is always questioned if she 'asked for it'.
There are many factors for this. I can cite examples of cases where younger girls sleep with their boyfriends, the parents find out, and for reasons of race/whatever the parents insist it was rape. They tell their daughter that he forced himself on her, and it was rape.
I can cite examples with older women where, knowing how effective it is, they use it as a tool to get rid of people who are nagging them. Do most women do it? Of course not. Most rape victims are just that, victims. However, the man sitting in the box deserves the right to a defence, just incase, he actually is innocent.
Many times if a woman does not sustain serious physical trauma, the man is not convicted.
This is primarily because rape is a crime where it's only his word against hers, making it difficult to convict. This is preferable to a system where if someone says you're a criminal, you must automatically be a criminal, at least in my mind.
And in court a woman's entire sexual history is put out there for the world to judge (although we have rape shield laws here in canada, sneaky lawyers are always finding ways around them).
Rape shield laws should be unconstitutional, under Section 9 and Section 11d of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. If you are offering only anectodal evidence that you were raped, then it is difficult to throw someone's life away on your word.
Is it right? No. However, I can't see how making more potential victims is better. The key is to seek to eliminate rape in our society as much as possible, rather trying to piece together what actually happened after the fact.
A woman who has slept around a bit will rarely find that her rapist is convicted, and heaven help the prostitutes who get raped.
As a result of it being hard to infer a lack of consent, and there only being anecdotal evidence. Flip it around and say a prostitute who gets mad at a patron and accuses him of raping her since he won't buy her a nice necklace. Should he go to prison?
What if he's your father? Your brother? Your son?
Posted: 2/6/2007 10:39:57 AM
But men stop making sweeping statements..
Given the amount of women in this thread who have made sweeping statements, compared to the number of men who've posted, even if 200% of all male posters (obviously, impossible) had been making sweeping statements it would be less then the number of females guilty of the same thing here.
Perhaps you mean, "stop making statements which contradict our sweeping statements."
Posted: 2/6/2007 11:34:10 AM
I condemn the women who falsely accuse men of raping them, I really think that it's almost as heinous a crime as rape itself. Not only is the woman who does this ruining the life of the man she's accusing, but she's making it harder for the women who have actually been raped to have thier justice.
I agree, though unfortunately it doesn't change the fact that as a result of them, one must still be cautious accepting anectodal evidence, whether right or wrong. I realize this puts some victims in a bad situation, and I wish I had a solution for it, but I don't.
I agree that some women, SOME, not by any means a large proportion, have falsely accused a man of rape, but this number is so so much less than the amount of women who are raped and don't report because the system is set up to not beleive them.
Perhaps, but again, I value the process. I believe in a judicial system, and in innocent until proven guilty. I recognize that the number is small but sadly because it exists, you have to have more protection in place for the defendent then you might ideally like.
It's the trade off we make for a free and democratic society.
You will never get me to agree that rape shield laws are unconstitutional. Whether or not a woman has has sex once of a hundred times has no bearing on whether she consented to the one act that is before the court. That's like saying that a woman cannot get a conviction of rape against a husband because she consented so many times in the past.
Please dont misidentify my concern.
My concern is not whether or not she deserves protection (she does), but the fact is the defendent, who may be innocent (in the concept of innocent until proven guilty, guaranteed under the Charter of Rights and Freedoms) should have a right to prove his innocence. To me, this is very important. If we let our judicial system break down, what do we have left?
It's also like saying that once a woman becomes a prostitute that she must have sex with every man who wants her. A prostitute has every right to deny sex as any other woman, even if a man has paid, she can say no and (I hope) hand his money back. What if he refuses to wear a condom, or what if he has sores on his genitals? you're saying that she has no right to say no? or just that she has no right to a fair trial for the man that rapes her?
Obviously a prostitute has the same rights as any other woman, though part of the problem is that prostitution is illegal. It should be legalized and government controlled, with mandatory medical testing for patrons as well as for the women every month. It should be taxed, and treated like any other service. Psychological tests should be provided, and if people are in the field because of the right reasons, then there's nothing wrong with that.
I do not view it as any different then from a painter who sells the work of his hands, the lawyer who sells his mind, or the singer who sells her voice. So that's the first thing.
Secondly, yes, prostitutes have the right to refuse, and no, their profession should not be a consideration. What I'm saying is the accused also has a right to a fair trial, and that justb ecause a prostitute says he raped her, does not mean he did. One could have had consentual sex with a prostitute, and paid her. She could have said "If you don't pay me more, I'll say you raped me." Maybe she was desperate for cash because she had a child at home starving (another problem entirely, but interrelated), maybe she was just a snake.
Whatever the case may be, protection should exist under the law for both the victim and the accused, because not all accused's are guilty.
Posted: 3/1/2007 2:58:26 PM
|Well, I can't speak for myself, but having dated two girls who were raped, one repeatedly by a relative... there are triggers for some people. It's like PTSD. They get in a situation that reminds them of the rape, and seem to relive it, or some portion of it. I can see your analogy of getting raped in the a**. But the one thing missing from that description is that it's not likely to make normal sex traumatic for you. At least that's my understanding of things.|
Posted: 6/27/2007 1:48:33 PM
|Rape and Physical violence teamed with mental abuse can produce the same effects on people so I would say they are equal in that the results are the same.|
No women who gets raped deserved it period but some should know that not all men have the same selfcontrol as others.
most casual rapists its a crime of opportunity
Serial rapists are crimes of revenge in the majority of cases due to things that happened in their childhood generally the physical abuse and mental abuse at the hands of women so they develop the madonna-whore complex which screws up their lives in alot of ways like that.
They need alot of therapy to clean themselves up but wont seek it just like alot of rape victims wont seek it out.
I was raised in an area where I got into a crap load of fights for what guys did to women around me 95% of my friends who were females were raped and shared something else in common they became sluts slept with anyone who expressed an interest rather than go through the rape again.
Now I also no women who have been raped and enjoyed it and came out with a loving for really really rough sex Now they need help as well but this could just be an evolutionary trick to adapt to something that was really common since its how brides were gotten in the first place through wife stealing.
Posted: 6/27/2007 1:55:48 PM
|^^I don't think it's a matter of self control.|
To my way of thinking, a normal man would not be tempted to commit violent rape.
Violence and sex have nothing to do with each other in a normal man's brain, IMHO.
Now, it might cross the average guys mind to take advantage of someone who has passed out. that is a non violent act. Hopefully, he has been taught enough respect for women that the thought will pass, without being acted upon.
Posted: 6/27/2007 5:07:35 PM
What is it about being raped which is so devastating?
Think about a man overpowering you and then raping you. Wouldn't you be devastated? Putting yourself into those shoes might give you a little more insight.
5 (1, 2, 3, 4, 5)