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Show ALL Forums  > Current Events  > China tests new weapon. Shoots down Satellite      Home login  
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 arri
Joined: 10/5/2005
Msg: 17
China tests new weapon. Shoots down SatellitePage 2 of 4    (1, 2, 3, 4)
I don't think M-TV or most communication satellites are in danger. Commercial satellites sit tight at a geosynchronous orbit so that they are a fix point relative to earth and you can aim a dish right at them without having to task or follow it.

Spy, weather etc satellites and LEOs sit at much lower height. Usually under a 1000 Kilometers. The bird they shot at was one of low flying ones.


Geosynchronous (adj.): geo-, earth and synchronous, going on at the same rate and exactly together.

A satellite in geosynchronous orbit circles the earth once each day. The time it takes for a satellite to orbit the earth is called its period. For a satellite's orbit period to be one sidereal day, it must be approximately 35,786 kilometers (19,323 nautical miles or 22,241 statute miles) above the earth's surface. That is a lot higher than the Shuttle ever goes (usually about 300 kilometers). We calculate this height using, what are today, common geometric formulas.

http://liftoff.msfc.nasa.gov/academy/rocket_sci/satellites/geo-high.html
 paddler
Joined: 9/29/2004
Msg: 18
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History
China tests new weapon. Shoots down Satellite
Posted: 1/20/2007 4:33:15 AM
Just remember that it was Bush that started all this non-sense when he wanted a missile defence shield. There is no way the US will be allowed a weapons system that they could use to threaten the world. Thank God China has stepped up to the plate and sent a message to the US. Stop making trouble. We want to live ina peaceful world, like the one we had before Bush was appointed.(votes in 2000 were never counted).
 BiChicksRock
Joined: 8/4/2006
Msg: 19
China tests new weapon. Shoots down Satellite
Posted: 1/20/2007 5:37:10 AM
i wouldn't worry too much about china at this stage..... in the medium term they have no real interest in going to war against the usa..... it would be a disaster for both sides
 Montreal_Guy
Joined: 3/8/2004
Msg: 21
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China tests new weapon. Shoots down Satellite
Posted: 1/20/2007 3:37:01 PM
That's the problem. With this type of weapon, if it were ever widely used, we'd effectively turn our planet into one with a junkyard of lethal orbiting debris. It's bad enough already. This type of an attack would potentially destroy a lot of other non-targeted satellites.

I'm not sure about the laser weapons however, and if they would cause the same destruction. What's even worse about those is that one might not even see it coming. Traveling at the speed of light, and having to go 600 miles, takes far less than the blink of an eye.

With the relative delicacy of the components, it would not take much to inflict a deathblow .
What's even more ironic, is that the USA has by far the most to lose. With it's great dependence on high tech and satellites (and not much back up) , a massed strike against US space based military and communication targets would pretty much turn the USA military into the Who's "Tommy".

Deaf, dumb, and blind....and no way to play that mean game of pinball anymore.

Many of those smart bombs, which need GPS information to function, are going to suddenly become "Homer Simpson.

That's why this single handed militarized space warfare concept that Bush was so pumped up about is so idiotic. By forcing others to embark on it, or risk losing protection, you sacrifice your advantage over your enemy.

Once that's gone, they (since they are not as dependant on such hi tech) have the advantage. If you are used to fighting with hi tech devices, and suddenly lose them, you have to start from zero with less experience than your enemy has.

In a time of war, you don't have time for that.
 Montreal_Guy
Joined: 3/8/2004
Msg: 24
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China tests new weapon. Shoots down Satellite
Posted: 1/20/2007 6:03:12 PM
Check out the Boeing YAL-1. That's just the ones that are not part of the Black Ops programs, which God only knows what THOSE guys have produced.


The Boeing YAL-1A Airborne Laser (ABL) weapons system, designated , is a megawatt class chemical oxygen iodine laser (COIL) primarily designed to shoot down Tactical ballistic missiles (TBMs) similar to the Scud while in boost phase. The laser system is fitted to a heavily modified Boeing 747-400F freighter and is still in the test period. The laser has been test fired on the ground but not yet in flight. However a much less powerful early flying prototype successfully shot down several missiles in the 1980s. It was called the Airborne Laser Laboratory, and was a technological pathfinder for the ABL.

n theory the ABL could be used against hostile fighter aircraft, cruise missiles, or even low earth orbit satellites (see Anti-satellite weapon). However those are not its intended target and the capability against those is unknown. The ABL infrared target acquisition system is designed to detect the bright, hot exhaust of TBMs in boost phase. Satellites and other aircraft would have a much lower heat signature and possibly be harder to detect. This analysis by the Union of Concerned Scientists discusses potential ABL use against low earth orbit satellites: ASAT Capability of US Missile Defense Systems.

Effective use against ground targets seems very unlikely. Aside from the difficulty of acquiring and tracking a ground target, firing downward through the dense atmosphere would significantly weaken the beam. Also, most ground targets are not fragile enough to damage with a megawatt-class laser.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airborne_Laser



It's politically sensitive, but it's going to happen. Some people don't want to hear this, and it sure isn't in vogue, but — absolutely — we’re going to fight in space. We're going to fight from space and we're going to fight into space. That’s why the US has development programs in directed energy and hit-to-kill mechanisms. We will engage terrestrial targets someday — ships, airplanes, land targets — from space."

- Commander-in-Chief of US Space Command, Joseph W. Ashy



However, research in the US and Russia was proving that the requirements, at least for orbital based energy weapon systems, were, with available technology, close to impossible. Nonetheless, the strategic implications of a possible unforeseen breakthrough in technology forced the USSR to initiate massive spending on research in the 12th Five Year Plan, drawing all the various parts of the project together under the control of GUKOS and matching the US proposed deployment date of 2000.

Both countries began to reduce expenditure from 1989 and the Russian Federation unilaterally discontinued all SDI research in 1992. Research and Development (both of ASAT systems and other space based/deployed weapons) has, however reported to have be been resumed under the Vladimir Putin government as a counter to renewed US Strategic Defense efforts post Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty. However the status of these efforts, or indeed how they are being funded through National Reconnaissance Office projects of record, remains unclear. The U.S. has begun working on a number of programs which could be foundational for a space-based ASAT. These programs include the Experimental Spacecraft System (XSS 11), the Near-Field Infrared Experiment (NFIRE), and the space-based interceptor (SBI).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-satellite_weapon


The XSS is quite amazing.



nside The Pentagon December 4, 2003

One year from now, when the Air Force Research Laboratory launches its Experimental Small Satellite No. 11, some eyes will gaze at the heavens in wonder at a feat of robotic technology that may lower the cost of maintaining and repairing satellites on orbit. It is just as certain that others will scrutinize this new arrival in space, suspicious that the so-called XSS-11 has a clandestine, dual capability -- as a ready-on-demand, orbiting anti-satellite weapon.

Air Force leaders describe XSS-11 as a small, maneuverable satellite -- a featherweight in the 100-kilogram class of space vehicles -- with a one-year mission to demonstrate "rendezvous and proximity operations" with other satellites. That's military jargon for meeting up with other space vehicles on orbit, and maneuvering close by to inspect or perform other tasks.

But the same capacity built into XSS-11 that enables it to maneuver around another satellite it is servicing can also allow the spacecraft to disable or destroy adversary satellites, if desired, some experts say.

"XSS-10 and -11 [were] both designed for the same mission," one defense official said this week, speaking on condition of not being named. "XSS-11 can be used as an ASAT weapon."

"Such a satellite could house a small kinetic-kill vehicle designed to smash into a nearby enemy satellite," Theresa Hitchens and Jeffrey Lewis of the Center for Defense Information in Washington wrote in a September opinion piece published in Space News.

In the Air Force's 1999 Microsatellite Technology and Requirements Study, the service raised the possibility of borrowing technology from the Army's Kinetic Energy Anti-Satellite, or KE-ASAT, program for its own microsatellites, according to Hitchens and Lewis.

The study's "single strongest recommendation" was "the deployment, as rapidly as possible, of XSS-10-based satellites to intercept, image and, if needed, take action against a target satellite," the two analysts quoted from a 2000 unclassified summary.

Operators on the ground could use XSS-11 to transmit detailed images of a foreign spy satellite back to a U.S. command center, for example. If the spy satellite were deemed a threat to U.S. forces or assets -- particularly during a period of hostilities -- the new microsatellite would have the capability to eliminate it, experts in and outside the government say.

"If you don't like what you see, you can ram into it," says John Pike, a longtime space policy critic and director of GlobalSecurity.org, a clearinghouse for military information based in Virginia. In building XSS-11 to be relatively cheap and easy to launch, it also may be expendable and replaceable in an anti-satellite role, he says.

Looking back at the XSS-10 experiment, the defense official said the XSS-series spacecraft's potential for destroying other satellites was demonstrated.

"It is harder to rendezvous with an object in space than hit it," the defense official said. "XSS-10 went around the object a few times."

The experimental craft "doesn't need any modifications to kill a satellite," this source added. "It's capable of doing all the missions that KE-ASAT is intended to do -- and then some. That's been proven in the flight test."

Interviewed by telephone Nov. 17, Leaf declined to comment on anti-satellite capabilities, saying any such discussion about the XSS program would "all be speculation."

But he did say rendezvous and proximity operations are absolutely essential for XSS-11's experimental satellite maintenance tasks, regardless of what others may make of the capability.

"You can't closely inspect a vehicle -- say, one with an on-orbit malfunction -- without getting 'close' and approaching from the right angle," Leaf tells ITP. "To refuel, obviously you'd have to get more than close, and 'dock' with the vehicle. While we can do that with the [Space] Shuttle currently, an ability to perform such operations autonomously and with a much smaller vehicle offers great advantages in cost and availability."

Air Force officials do acknowledge selected offensive and defensive space capabilities the United States is developing for use against future enemies. But they will discuss offensive space capabilities only in broad terms, emphasizing those systems with "temporary and reversible" effects. Service officials stop short of disavowing satellite destruction in space warfare.

Leaf cited two "offensive counter-space" programs the Air Force first acknowledged earlier this year, both of which are ground-based.

A Counter-Communications System, to be fielded in fiscal year 2005, is aimed at temporarily blocking an adversary's command and control. And in 2008, the service intends to field a Counter-Surveillance and Reconnaissance System, focused on denying an enemy's access to space-based imagery.

Leaf would not acknowledge the technologies these "space control" programs will use to disrupt their targets, but experts believe they are jamming systems.

The general also declined to say if the military has now or plans any future offensive space capabilities beyond these two.

Asked why he could not be more forthcoming in explaining whether the United States currently has the capability to achieve space control, Leaf said, "We don't want to reveal any vulnerabilities, if we have any. We don't want to reveal classified information."

Air Force leaders say that in wartime, they would like to achieve "space superiority" much as the United States has achieved "air superiority" over enemy skies in past conflicts. But they are far less willing to open space systems and operating strategy to the kind of public scrutiny the procurement and use of fighter aircraft and bombers and tankers receive on Capitol Hill and in the news media.

"You don't have to understand where we're at with [space plans] to understand" the concept of space superiority, Leaf said in the Nov. 17 interview. He said the quest for space superiority is much like the objective the Air Force has sought and achieved in the air.

"We ensure the capability to use the atmospheric medium, and we deny that to the enemy. We want to do the same from space. There's absolutely nothing different about that just because it's space," Leaf said. "Now the specifics, some of the sensitivities and technical discussions and everything else are quite different, but it is as simple as wanting to do something we don't let the enemy do."

To some outside observers, it seems ironic at best -- and perhaps foolhardy at worst -- that the United States has developed the greatest reliance on space-based assets of any nation around the globe, yet is preparing to go on the offensive against relatively undeveloped foreign space capabilities. The U.S. military increasingly uses spy satellites, the Global Positioning System, Iridium satellite phones and other space-based communication networks to wage war on the ground, in the air and at sea.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/org/news/2003/031204-asat.htm


Yep, the Air Force just wants to go up there into the "Wild Black Yonder" and take a look see....that's all. Using something like that as a WEAPON ? Nah....never dawned on us at all.....

You start saying those types of things,and doing those things, and don't be too surprised if other nations decide to do the same.
 BikerBiker53
Joined: 6/11/2005
Msg: 25
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China tests new weapon. Shoots down Satellite
Posted: 1/20/2007 6:57:44 PM
Yeah,

The US really hates it when another country decides to not only try to catch up with us, but flaunts it by testing their new "Weapon" in full view of the rest of the world,....

Gawd forbid if some other country decides they are gonna be the new "Peace Keepers" of the world,......

Im sure there would be a fight over who has the right, to take away other nations right to try to bring peace to this planet !
 drew_d2
Joined: 2/21/2006
Msg: 26
China tests new weapon. Shoots down Satellite
Posted: 1/20/2007 7:44:03 PM
As many have said, this one was obvious. It's so obvious that the U.S. is probably already creating a counter to threats like these. I think this test can guide U.S. research into being serious about satellite defense if we weren't already. The biggest problem I have with what the OP posted is that it would not completly negate all weapons the U.S. has. We have heat weapons that don't depend on satellites, and we could produce more of them if needed.

Also, we could produce enough bullets to kill china's military. Men would be the biggest issue, not bullets.
-Drew-
 Montreal_Guy
Joined: 3/8/2004
Msg: 27
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China tests new weapon. Shoots down Satellite
Posted: 1/20/2007 8:01:45 PM
Airborne lasers have always had the problem of trying to fit a very powerful laser (right now, a heavy payload) into an airframe.

Ground based systems, which don't have that limitation, have already been successfully tested.


Wednesday, 22 October 1997

Early Report 10/22: U.S. LASER WEAPON TEST

Editors in Europe viewed with some degree of alarm the U.S. Army's successful test of a powerful laser--which hit a targeted satellite more than 260 miles from earth--last Friday. While they acknowledged that the test did not violate either the 1967 or 1972 treaties covering warfare in space, analysts nonetheless concluded that the U.S. had "crossed a new threshold" in the technological arms race. Brussels's independent Le Soir noted: "The Americans virtually have the power to blind or to destroy satellites in flight, and thereby to paralyze armies at war by depriving them of their eyes and of their ears. A frightening lead. This technological achievement reminds us that 'star wars' is not entirely dead." A number of writers expressed particular concern that the laser test might provide Russia with "an excuse" not to ratify its pending arms treaties with the U.S. As if to confirm those fears, Moscow's reformist Izvestia declared: "The test...won't help START II ratification in the Russian Duma."

U.S. LASER WEAPON TEST: 'STAR WARS ALIVE AND WELL'?

BRITAIN: "Doing Nasty Things With Mirrors"

The liberal Guardian told its readers (10/22): "Star Wars is alive and well, even if there's no one to play with. Last Friday's test of a high-powered U.S. army laser was talked down by the Pentagon as a modest defensive measure.... The purpose of the exercise, it says, is simply to find out what other--potentially hostile--countries might do with a laser at their disposal.

"There is just one small problem with the Pentagon's rationale. The only power around, hostile or otherwise, in possession of lasers capable of such a performance happens to be...the United States of America.

Last week's laser test toes not violate the letter of either the 1967 or 1972 treaties covering space warfare, but the spirit is another matter. There is another lesson from the test just carried out. It shows according to the Pentagon, that low-intensity lasers could be used--and the technology is available to quite a few countries--to 'blind' the sensors on the U.S. satellites now in use. This raises a whole set of different issues about the ethical implications of such 'spying' and whether it should be internationalized. These must be resolved on the ground, not 260 miles high in the air."

USSIA: "Lasers May Renew Arms Race"

Boris Vinogradov, commenting on a laser space weapon tested recently on an American earth satellite, pointed out in reformist Izvestia (10/22): "The test could just as well pose a threat to other countries' satellites. Military experiments with lasers are even more dangerous in that they can open a new round of the arms race. Today some 30 countries have similar capabilities. Besides, those tests won't help START II ratification in the Russian Duma."

BELGIUM: "Star Wars Has Come Down To Earth"

Pierre Lefevre wrote in independent Le Soir (10/22): "The United States has just achieved a first: Hitting an old military satellite orbiting at more than 400 kilometers from the earth with a powerful laser beam fired from the ground. It has thereby crossed a new threshold in the technological arms race. The Americans virtually have the power to blind or to destroy satellites in flight, and thereby to paralyze armies at war by depriving them of their eyes and of their ears. A frightening lead. This technological achievement reminds us that 'star wars' is not entirely dead....

"On Friday, the purpose was not to destroy the satellite but only to light it up to analyze its reactions. Incidentally, the U.S. administration denies that it intends to develop anti-satellite weapons. It says that it only wants to measure the vulnerability of its own satellites against blinding lasers whose technology is reportedly mastered by some thirty countries. This laser firing nevertheless breaks an international taboo: No one, so far, had carried out an experimental attack against a satellite. Although it was informed in advance of this experiment, Russia could take it badly. The Duma is already reluctant to ratify the Start II treaty. By trying too quickly to arm itself for the future space battlefields, the United States could lose the very peaceful means of getting rid of a few thousands of enemy nuclear warheads without firing a single shot."

http://www.fas.org/spp/military/program/asat/971022-miracl-mr.htm


That was ten years ago, almost. The use of a laser to cripple such a target avoid turning it into fragments. That's a logical use of a weapon, if your side has a lot of satellites you do not want to be accidently damaged.



U.S. DEPARTMENT OF STATE
DAILY PRESS BRIEFING
DPB #143
FRIDAY, OCTOBER 3, 1997 12:50, P.M.

QUESTION: How does the State Department feel about the Pentagon's decision to go ahead with the anti-satellite test?

MR. RUBIN: Well, as you know, Carol, I have some familiarity with this issue over the years and there is always going to be discussions back and forth on a subject like this. But having checked with our people, I have no reason to believe that we here in the Department had any specific problem with this test.

The reason is that the kind of test that it is doesn't pose any problem with becoming an anti-ballistic missile system and this experiment does not violate any arms control agreement. As you know, there is no anti-satellite treaty, other international law, or US domestic law. It is an experiment. It is designed to collect data that will help improve computer models used for planning protection measures for US satellites.

http://www.fas.org/news/usa/1997/10/971003db.html


So, back then, there was no treaty to stop the USA from doing (in effect) what the Chinese just did. No one seemed to have any problems.

As I said, this is just what we know about. The odds are pretty good that the guys in the lab coats haven't been slacking off. The black op budget is immense, and (especially in a post 9/11 world, and with this administration) I'd be more than willing to bet that capabilites have been upgraded substantially. This administration has already re-classified information that's been publically available for decades.
 drew_d2
Joined: 2/21/2006
Msg: 28
China tests new weapon. Shoots down Satellite
Posted: 1/21/2007 8:22:10 PM
Well, China wouldn't have to go far to strike the U.S.'s military if they wanted, so I'm sure they still have troops in place. They could hit the Pacific fleets and bases and that would hurt us pretty badly.

As for the comment on the technology, wars could really be changed by technology if used properly. Sure you would run out, but how much damage would you do before you run out is the question.
-Drew-
 roughpoet
Joined: 7/5/2006
Msg: 29
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China tests new weapon. Shoots down Satellite
Posted: 1/21/2007 9:32:03 PM
I'll preface this with the assurance that it is the unvarnished truth. I wasn't drunk, dreaming or on any kind of drugs.


One evening, about 2 1/2 years ago I was alone at my house on the island. The separation had been realized and the ex and my boy had moved out. I was bored and lonely, so went out to do a little star gazing.....wonderful conditions, the sky ablaze as you only see in remote places. I laid myself onto the camas meadow and stared up into the universe.

Suddenly, a moving dot of light appeared. Cool! A satellite! I watch the stately progression across western skies. When bang. It stopped moving!!! Stunned, I continue to watch
as it begins a series of quick movements in all directions. After about 5 minutes of this maneuvering it stopped again.

I only wish I been able to tear myself away to go get a camera. If I had know how long it would go on I would have.

The next act was announced by two explosions, bright bursts of light just below and north of the satellite. This was followed by at least five minutes of intermittent explosions all around the bright point of light. Even some above. I could see glowing debris fall on some bursts. Then as quickly as it started, it was over. The satellite just hung motionless again. I watched for another twenty minutes but nothing further happened.

It was probably the strangest thing I have ever seen. The only explanation I could come up with was that it was a test of some kind of satellite defense system. I think we can be assured that the US is working on both defensive and offensive space weapons.
 arri
Joined: 10/5/2005
Msg: 31
China tests new weapon. Shoots down Satellite
Posted: 1/22/2007 4:11:58 PM
BushCo has been lobbying to build his trillion dollar plus missile defence system for sometime. They tried to sell North Korea and Iran as possible future cold war enemies. How else can you feed the military Industrial Complex? Problem is, because of Geography and Laws of Physics, North Koreans and Iranians won't be able to fire missiles at the US. But now, knowing how willing and mercantile the Chinese are. They may have very well have been paid to do this.
 Fuzzymutt
Joined: 10/22/2006
Msg: 32
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China tests new weapon. Shoots down Satellite
Posted: 1/22/2007 4:23:57 PM
Not only has our own anti-missile/satellite system been in space for over two decades,(the Strategic Defense Initiative-code name Star Wars,thank you President Reagan for giving it that Hollywood flair)our own satellites have built in counter-measures specifically designed to thwart such things. The only thing this development will bring is a lot of boring melodrama on CNN (YAWN). If you want to discuss weaponry that is truly frightening,why don't you do a little research on genetic-specific viral weapons,hmm? But,before you do,let me leave you with a fact which makes this the most horrific development of the twentieth century. All the inter-breeding we've been doing has caused such weapons to be less particular about their targets. Say a vi-weap targeting Chinese DNA,
for instance,were to be released. It would rapidly destroy people of Asian descent. It would also afflict people of PARTIAL Asian ancestry. Then,as viruses are prone to do,it mutates. Before you know it,Stephen King's book,
The Stand becomes almost prophetic-except the whole demon thing. Oh well,food for thought.
 nipoleon
Joined: 12/27/2005
Msg: 33
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China tests new weapon. Shoots down Satellite
Posted: 1/23/2007 4:39:51 AM
The Chinese arn't coming at all.
They are going to stay right where they are.

2 billion people, 1/3 of the Earths population is starting to seriously compete with us for their share of this planets resources. All those material goodies we've been used to buying, the Chinese and Indians are going to want too. That means the price of everything we know will do nothing but go up and up.
All of us Westerners are going to be forced to live much simpler lives that what we've been used to. We are going to have to get by on much less than we have in the past .
The Chinese don't have to beat us on any battlefield. They only need to catch up to us economically. As their standard of living increases, ours will decrease.
As their economy gets stronger their influence in the world gets stronger.
I'm not saying this is necessarily a bad thing, it's just the way it's going to be and we'd better be prepared for it.
 Montreal_Guy
Joined: 3/8/2004
Msg: 34
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China tests new weapon. Shoots down Satellite
Posted: 1/23/2007 4:04:30 PM
This news brings an entirely new meaning to the term "Chinese take out" , doesn't it ?
 paddler
Joined: 9/29/2004
Msg: 35
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China tests new weapon. Shoots down Satellite
Posted: 1/23/2007 5:49:44 PM
Richard Clark commented that if China attacked the US it would be through cyber-space and target computer sytems controlling infra-structure, like the power grid.

The weapon tested isn't anything new, both Russia and the States have developed and tested them in the past. Due to the danger of an arms race and space as well as the danger posed by the debris, both sides called it quits. I think China was sending a message to the west about any new arms race like missle defense or baby nukes could trigger.
 chameleontat
Joined: 4/3/2006
Msg: 36
China tests new weapon. Shoots down Satellite
Posted: 1/23/2007 6:40:00 PM
China paid a lot of money for that technology to build those weapons, remember Bill Clinton's Chinese campaign contributors. They can't spend all that money and not show off their new toys.

I don't for see any major conflicts between the US and China and think either would be foolish to invade the others turf. I do see China as an up and coming force that wants to be recognised by the other large world players.
 roughpoet
Joined: 7/5/2006
Msg: 37
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China tests new weapon. Shoots down Satellite
Posted: 1/23/2007 8:41:14 PM
"is there a chance the world will survive the United States?"

I hate to say it, but these last few years have seen the final stages of American hegemony and their position as a credible protecter of human rights, or freedom.

You have depleted the worlds store of goodwill from WW2 and are trying to replace it by force. There have been so many lies, and tactical blunders.....I'm beginning to wonder if anyone is driving this bus?

The US reached for the moon! And achieved their goals in a spectacular fashion.

What a shame to see such promise perverted by petty, worldly obsessions.
We had such high hopes..
 Montreal_Guy
Joined: 3/8/2004
Msg: 38
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China tests new weapon. Shoots down Satellite
Posted: 1/24/2007 6:35:34 AM
China paid a lot of money for that technology to build those weapons, remember Bill Clinton's Chinese campaign contributors. They can't spend all that money and not show off their new toys.


The Republicans made a lot more money off the Chinese, my friend.


US: Bush's Brother Has Contract to Help Chinese Chip Maker

by Warren Vieth and Lianne Hart, Los Angeles Times
November 27th, 2003

WASHINGTON - Neil Bush, a younger brother of President Bush, has a $400,000-a-year contract to provide business advice to a Chinese computer chip manufacturer, according to court documents.

At the same time the Bush administration is promising to crack down on alleged trade abuses by the Chinese, Neil Bush has agreed to strategize with China's Grace Semiconductor Manufacturing Corp., the documents show.

While there is no indication he has done anything improper, Bush's arrangement could attract attention during a presidential election cycle in which Chinese business practices have become a hot-button issue.

"There's certainly the appearance of influence being sought," said Charles W. McMillion, a Washington business consultant who advised a congressional commission on U.S.-China policy. "If nothing else, it doesn't look good."

The younger Bush's relationship with Grace Semiconductor, first reported in the Houston Chronicle, is detailed in a two-page contract filed as part of divorce proceedings between Neil and Sharon Bush. The divorce was finalized in April.

The China contract is not Neil Bush's first brush with controversy. In the 1980s, he was a director of Silverado Banking, Savings & Loan, a Colorado thrift whose failure cost U.S. taxpayers $1 billion. He was one of 12 defendants who agreed to pay $49 million to settle a negligence lawsuit brought by the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp.

Neil Bush did not return phone messages seeking comment. Neither did his attorney, Grace Semiconductor or Sharon Bush. An attorney for Sharon Bush declined to comment.

In Crawford, Texas, where the president is spending the holiday, White House spokeswoman Claire Buchan said there would be no comment on the China matter.

According to the consulting contract, Neil Bush was to receive $2 million worth of Grace Semiconductor preferred stock over five years, issued in annual increments of $400,000.

In return, Bush agreed to "provide GSMC from time to time with business strategies and policies; latest information and trends of the related industry, and other expertized advices," the contract states.

In addition, Bush was to attend meetings of Grace Semiconductor's board of directors, and the firm agreed to pay him $10,000 per meeting to cover expenses. Bush signed the contract Aug. 15, 2002.

It was not clear how much compensation Bush has received so far. The contract said he would receive the first $400,000 allotment within one month of the company's 2002 board meeting, "provided you have duly furnished GSMC with the information and details required for the issuance or transfer of the share certificate."

Grace Semiconductor, based in Shanghai, was founded in 2000 by Winston Wong, the son of Taiwanese business magnate Wang Yung-ching, and Jiang Mianheng, the son of former Chinese President Jiang Zemin. Wong co-signed the contract with Bush.

The company has said its goal is to become a leading manufacturer of integrated circuits and other semiconductor products. It has invested $1.6 billion to build two fabrication plants in Shanghai. Production from the first plant began in September.

During a March 2003 deposition taken as part of his divorce proceedings, as reported by the Chronicle and confirmed by an attorney in the case, the president's brother acknowledged that he knew little about the industry he had just joined.

"You have absolutely no educational background in semiconductors, do you?" asked Sharon Bush's attorney, Marshall Davis Brown.

"That's correct," Bush responded.

"But I know a lot about business," he said at another point, "and I've been working in Asia quite a long time."

http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?id=9231



Wal-Mart's China inventory to hit US$18b this year
By Jiang Jingjing (China Business Weekly)
Updated: 2004-11-29 15:21

The world's largest retailer, Wal-Mart Stores Inc, says its inventory of stock produced in China is expected to hit US$18 billion this year, keeping the annual growth rate of over 20 per cent consistent over two years.

The trend is expected to continue, company officials revealed.

"We expect our procurement stock from China to continue to grow at a similar rate in line with Wal-Mart's growth worldwide, if not faster," said Lee Scott, the president and CEO (chief executive officer) of Wal-Mart.

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2004-11/29/content_395728.htm



Wal-Mart is a major contributor to the Republican Party. In the 2004 election cycle, Wal-Mart donated $2.1 million to candidates and campaigns - more than any other retailer. Eighty percent of those donations went to Republicans, according to OpenSecrets.org. Wal-Mart's closeness to Republicans was further demonstrated in May 2004, when Vice President****Cheney said, "The story of Wal-Mart exemplifies some of the very best qualities in our country - hard work, the spirit of enterprise, fair dealing, and integrity."

http://www.dccc.org/stakeholder/archives/002163.html


Lucky those guys weren't Democrats, or there would have been HELL to pay over these type of cosy arrangements.
 chameleontat
Joined: 4/3/2006
Msg: 39
China tests new weapon. Shoots down Satellite
Posted: 1/24/2007 7:32:58 AM
"The Republicans made a lot more money off the Chinese, my friend."

Your comparing apples to oranges, legal trade business and buying classified info. from a traitor. BIG DIFFERENCE!!

I do not claim to be a Republican or a Democrat and truthfully despise the party system but have not got much say in that matter. If idiots would quit defending their party and offending the other party maybe something could actually get accomplished.

Given China's past and current performance on human rights I would not be giving them the leg up we are. I believe there are many great people in China but until they can replace they're current government with freedom they will always be an untrustworthy threat. I am glad to see the people of China emerging from poverty and gaining. I am not at all impressed with their government that is more concerned with exploiting their poverty level to make great profits of which most are not spent back on their people but are being spent to build bigger government. They hold the paper on world debt while their people are literally struggling to feed their families on mere pennies a day. Their people are beaten for getting together in a home to pray and worship God as they choose to. They have come a long way but have a long way to come and with the money they have made exploiting their cheap labor markets they could be still a major threat to the free world. They have shown time and again that they are willing to sell arms to people like Saddam.
 BikerBiker53
Joined: 6/11/2005
Msg: 40
view profile
History
China tests new weapon. Shoots down Satellite
Posted: 1/6/2008 11:00:20 AM

What else can we exspect from the Bushes? Money is thier goal!


I'll agree to that.

Im more worried about the demise of our US Economy, and internal damage, from our own people in power.

If, and or when, that happens,...I feel we will be pretty much sitting ducks, for the rest of the world to take pot shots at,...even as far away as Korea.

Bring the troops home,...secure our southern border,...start removing illegals, of all race,....protect our country,..and its citizens.

First and foremost.
 occamsrazor
Joined: 11/6/2007
Msg: 41
China tests new weapon. Shoots down Satellite
Posted: 1/6/2008 7:23:48 PM
As an American, I'm not too worried about the Chinese.
All we have to do is close off our market to them and stop shipping them grain.
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