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 Behind-Blue-Eyes_53
Joined: 12/19/2011
Msg: 85
In general, is rejection more difficult for men or for women?Page 4 of 6    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6)

Most (not all, but most) guys don't like to dance, it simply isn't written in our DNA, that's why you make gay male friends. No guy wants to be publicly humiliated, so not dancing, and not being turned down is a great way to avoid that.


IDK, maybe you were humiliated @ your 1st Jr high School Dance, when you walked over & asked the cute Girl to Dance. But, unless you can show some Facts that show Most guys don't like to Dance, I'll take this like most things on a internet forum. 87% of Facts stated like this are made up in the posters own head.

For my generation & the places I lived, unless you were introduced by friends, the most common place to meet someone of the opposite sex was a bar that had live music or a DJ. I've traveled all over the States & every town I've been in, a Club or Bar with a Band is hopping & most the time the Dance Floor is full as long as the Band is playing something the people like to dance to. I can say playing Bars in a Cover Band, if we didn't have the people up dancing, we weren't doing our job. I don't see that much change for my Son's generation, either. Though their music isn't my music.
 CTRLvector
Joined: 9/21/2014
Msg: 86
In general, is rejection more difficult for men or for women?
Posted: 10/7/2014 12:34:12 AM
That gay male friends thing was actually a joke lol.

But what I was referring to was based off a well written article, that made good points as to why men typically don't like to dance, or avoid it all together. I am personally not opposed to it, because its a good way to meet women. No guy goes dancing for any reason, other than to meet women. It isn't an interest, if it is an interest for a guy, its kind of weird unless it serves some sort of artistic/career purpose.
 Behind-Blue-Eyes_53
Joined: 12/19/2011
Msg: 87
In general, is rejection more difficult for men or for women?
Posted: 10/7/2014 2:38:38 AM
When I didn't have a Gig, I'd go out to friends Bands show & help out. Run their sound board or let them know if they needed to adjust the sound levels, when one part wasn't sounding good. Another thing I'd do, if the audience was sitting on their hands, was grab one of their Girl Friends & go dance to a song. Sometimes you just need someone to get up 1st, then others would, too. A 'break the ice' kind of thing. If the people are dancing, then they're also buying more drinks, & that's what a bar looks at, how much money a band brings in with them.

I've found that most guys who don't like to dance, tends to have friends that feel the same. Then they say, most guys don't like to, because the people they hang with, don't. Yet, go to any Tourist town & there will be a 'Hot Spot' that has Music & people Dancing....
 Blackwood85
Joined: 5/20/2013
Msg: 88
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In general, is rejection more difficult for men or for women?
Posted: 10/7/2014 10:28:23 AM

Yes exactly. For some of us it's the opposite...we want to get stuff done without being noticed...it's annoying. And this isn't about being into ourselves or thinking we are any kind of big deal. We know that outside of breathing/not being dead there's not much else we're doing to get this attention. Guys like this are usually looking at just about everything, instead of just shopping and going home.

Not all of us want to be asked to dance either - most of us bring our own dance partners. Our girlfriends - and we do it to avoid standing alone long enough to become a target.

Maybe this is a regional or generational thing.


I always thought that was an case, I was actually surprised when some girls wanted me to dance with them, I was told after the club had ended that one girl was annoyed that I didn't try to dance with her. Like I'm suppose to read minds because the girl who's dancing in an circle with her friends and turning down guys left and right, really looks inviting.


I can relate to what you're saying. A few years back I signed up for local womens kickboxing classes. It was supposed to be women only. I actually wanted women only classes. First class I rush over after work, the last to arrive barely just making it….and there were more men than women in my 'women's' class. I guess it's a common thing for a lot of places but shoot I had no clue. I'd always get stuck in front of this big guy who would stare at me during the warm ups. It was uncomfortable. Then got hit on by another after finishing class a few times. I didn't sign up to meet men it was just awkward and uncomfortable. Looking like hell warmed over and drenched in sweat the last thing I wanted was to socialize with a man, and not what I was looking for at all. Also put me in a weird spot, I didn't want to be rude as I had to see this man in class again. Had I known it wasn't really a women only class I probably wouldn't have signed up- maybe thats just me.[.quote]

I'm the opposite of those guys there's no way I would join an fitness kickboxing class, those classes typically don't involve contact. I thought about signing up for an class but then I realized it would be mostly females doing kickboxing aerobics so I avoided that one. I signed up for Karate and ended up sparring against women anyway.
 activemelaney
Joined: 9/8/2012
Msg: 89
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In general, is rejection more difficult for men or for women?
Posted: 10/7/2014 3:04:50 PM
^^^^

Behind blue eyes.

True. We go dancing once a week...often twice. Those hundreds of guys...all ages... on the dance floor sure seem to be having fun.

And yes, also true. We judge a band by on many of us are up dancing. Blah tunes and no zip is a downer...we like it cranked up.

My guy is perhaps the worse dancer in the universe but he loves to get up and boogie...and I love him for it.
 LLM211
Joined: 2/4/2014
Msg: 91
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In general, is rejection more difficult for men or for women?
Posted: 10/14/2014 5:27:04 PM
It is more difficult for men. Rejection tends to lower a man's self esteem and that leads to more future rejections because women don't find low self esteem attractive.
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 92
In general, is rejection more difficult for men or for women?
Posted: 10/14/2014 9:09:38 PM
^^^One might argue that if men are rejected more than women, they should be more desensitized to it and take it less personally. If rejection lowers self esteem it's because the person allows it to do so. That can be changed with a different mindset.
 activemelaney
Joined: 9/8/2012
Msg: 93
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In general, is rejection more difficult for men or for women?
Posted: 10/14/2014 9:38:24 PM
^^^ true

One's ability at handling of rejection is formed before adulthood. Self esteem is shaped in youth rather than by a woman saying yes or no. What a man might learn is more the mechanics through experience. Some dust themselves off and hop back on the horse...others walk out of the corral. Those that walk out can, indeed change their behaviour. Might not be easy but they have the inner strength to walk back in and try again.

It becomes self fulfilling. Confidence shows...leads to success. Success leads to more confidence. Confidence is attractive.
 gtomustang
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 94
In general, is rejection more difficult for men or for women?
Posted: 10/15/2014 9:36:16 AM
I've been chasing women since 1st grade, and can say, all that rejection I got...doesn't make it hurt less, doesn't desensitize me or numb me to it so I can go out and do more of it. Hit your thumb with a hammer until it desensitizes...do you automatically go, "thank goodness, now I can continue" ? :)

If anything, male logic goes, "well, this isn't working, why keep doing what doesn't work?" Like Einstein's definition of insanity. (On a side note, of course not all men are logical).

Personally, if I fail for decades at something I wish I could do, yeah, its gonna affect my self esteem. I'd have to be weird for it to not do so. It doesn't mean I feel bad about everything in my life, just the dating part. I have to accept reality as it has been demonstrated the last 4 decades. But not getting the woman I want to date me, doesn't make me question my ability to lead at a job or pick a proper retirement plan or the right washing machine or....

Its like telling the homeless guy that money has absolutely nothing to do with his self-esteem--sure it does! A sudden influx of money won't fix everything in his self esteem, but not being able to afford a shower or sleep in a safe place, yeah, a lack of money affects his self esteem to some point, and thinking happy thoughts won't change the fact people act in accordance to his stink or that he can't get a good night's rest.
 activemelaney
Joined: 9/8/2012
Msg: 95
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In general, is rejection more difficult for men or for women?
Posted: 10/15/2014 9:55:32 AM
Gotmustang

Much of what you say makes sense. However, a woman saying 'no' is like hitting your thumb with a hammer? Why does it need to hurt so much? Low self esteem? Better to work on your confidence than obsessing on the 'pain' of rejection.

It is a quite sane, common, healthy activity for a man to ask a woman out. Not some traumatic aberration. One would expect a well adjusted single male to spend a good part of his waking moments thinking about women and how to 'Catch one'. Cro magnon did it...and just about every straight male for the last 50 thousand years. Just about every well adjusted female is wanting to be caught by the right guy.

Bottom line. You are not alone. Some of us women are asked out literally thousands of times in our lifetime. My sisters and I would go out together and would politely turn down a couple dozen guys in a club (back in our 20's). It's 'normal'. Don't take it so personal. It shouldn't be like getting hit in the thumb. It should be like trying to catch a snowflake on your tongue...missing...then trying for another. Enjoy the chase. Remember that there is a woman who wants to be caught.
 JoeBnD
Joined: 3/23/2012
Msg: 97
In general, is rejection more difficult for men or for women?
Posted: 10/15/2014 8:53:03 PM
Its like telling the homeless guy that money has absolutely nothing to do with his self-esteem--sure it does! A sudden influx of money won't fix everything in his self esteem, but not being able to afford a shower or sleep in a safe place, yeah, a lack of money affects his self esteem to some point, and thinking happy thoughts won't change the fact people act in accordance to his stink or that he can't get a good night's rest.


I like this analogy - can I use it with the possible next therapist who tries to feed me the old "look more at the positive" BS?

Oh, and instead of hammer hits thumb, I think it is more like kick in nuts.
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 98
In general, is rejection more difficult for men or for women?
Posted: 10/16/2014 5:09:16 AM
Um...whacking your thumb with a hammer is something you can control, and is more painful than the dating and rejection process - unless of course you take it too personally. Why are people throwing having a single life into the context of medical pain? Ridiculous.

Comparing romantic rejection to homelessness is just over-dramatic and not really worthy of analyzing. Having a job AND a place to live are not even close to the same thing as being turned down for a date, One is about survival, one isn't even necessary in day to day life. SMH
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 99
In general, is rejection more difficult for men or for women?
Posted: 10/16/2014 12:27:54 PM
^^It's interesting that your response to my post was that there are men out there that kill women due to sexual rejection. What in my post do you connect to killing women? Clearly those people were already not well and something set them off. Are you comparing guys here to these men?

I'm not talking about people with mental or emotional instability, I'm talking about your average dater. If someone is looking at date rejection this harshly the problem clearly lies with their mindset about it. I'm saying that it is NOT a life or death situation to be without a date - it's much more problematic to be homeless as you actually NEED somewhere to live. You do not NEED a date no matter how you want to spin it.

I'm not saying there aren't people who are off their rockers and take extreme measures as a reaction to dating or something else, I'm saying people who are connecting the two in general are being melodramatic. Period.
 basilisk123
Joined: 12/17/2011
Msg: 100
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In general, is rejection more difficult for men or for women?
Posted: 10/16/2014 1:24:24 PM
How the hell is constant rejection comparable to homelessness?!?

Yall can keep the pusswah if it means I can have a roof over my head and a warm meal in my belly. Rejection happens to us guys alot. Some more than others, but nothing as dramatic as homelessness. Though women are wonderful, sexy, and sweet, you can be happy without a woman. Being happy on the street cold and hungry is way more difficult I imagine.
 gtomustang
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 101
In general, is rejection more difficult for men or for women?
Posted: 10/16/2014 2:21:00 PM
Activemelaney, on my case its a discomfort for me to be rejected b/c...well, why do you think I'm even asking someone out? On a lark? :) couldn't find a better conversation starter? :) I'm doing it for a specific purpose, and I failed to obtain that specific purpose. I want something pleasurable and beneficial (not just sex, the whole enchilada), and I'm being turned down for that experience. Its like thinking you're gonna, I don't know, get paid $100 for your work and then you find out you aren't. its a bummer.

It may even be likely, that the person I'm asking isn't a stranger, but someone I know and have to keep conducting a prior relationship with...which exists no longer, since I "went there". I took a gamble and it failed. Who enjoys failure? Well, if you have a decent success rate, then failure isn't that big of a deal. Fail 80% of time or more, however...its like watching a person lose $10. A millionaire doesn't care, a homeless person sure does. that $10 loss means less to the one who has much more money to lose.

I don't ask people out b/c I'm lonely--I'm used to being alone. Getting a date is actually an encumberance--I have to plan the time driving out to meet them, driving to the destination, driving them home, driving myself home, etc. easier just to go when I want, leave when I want, spend what I want. When I ask someone out, its only b/c I think they offer something that will make the time we spend together, worth all the planning and sacrifice of not doing every little thing I want, b/c they may want to check out something else instead.

were I actually getting hit on all the time, as you had posted...yeah, it would be different. It feels nice to be desired by someone. I know what you mean about enjoying the chase....its all I do now. To put it in WiP's terms, I don't hit my thumb with the hammer anymore.

why is dating so personal to me? I guess its b/c...I achieved everything else by 18 already :) I already had a decent place no roomies, was already learning how to cook, wasn't in debt, traveled, had my Mustang...what else was there that I really needed? Well, I had no one to share it with. It wasn't that getting a date was the center of my life (college was at that moment),it was that if I COULD achieve something, what was my excuse for not achieving it? Life wasn't for putting off, it was for living.

and having fun with someone other than just my own company...that's part of living. People who have had siblings and a life of partners may be real interested in some alone time at this part of their life. Me, I've done it in reverse--had all the "me time" already. Try 4 decades of "no", and you may agree :) But yea, I'd love to have the "success rate" of others who think its no big deal--there's a lot in my life that I don't consider a big deal, b/c I have a lot of it. Its a bit like that joke, sex is like oxygen--no big deal until you aren't getting any.
 Blackwood85
Joined: 5/20/2013
Msg: 102
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In general, is rejection more difficult for men or for women?
Posted: 10/16/2014 3:47:35 PM

^^It's interesting that your response to my post was that there are men out there that kill women due to sexual rejection. What in my post do you connect to killing women? Clearly those people were already not well and something set them off. Are you comparing guys here to these men?

I'm not talking about people with mental or emotional instability, I'm talking about your average dater. If someone is looking at date rejection this harshly the problem clearly lies with their mindset about it. I'm saying that it is NOT a life or death situation to be without a date - it's much more problematic to be homeless as you actually NEED somewhere to live. You do not NEED a date no matter how you want to spin it.

I'm not saying there aren't people who are off their rockers and take extreme measures as a reaction to dating or something else, I'm saying people who are connecting the two in general are being melodramatic. Period.


While dating isn't an life or death situation or comparable to homelessness both men and women have gone crazy over it and while it's never that serious, human beings are meant to have some form of intimacy with other human beings. People can be homeless but as long as they have significant other with them it makes their lives slightly easier, the loneliness can make someone go crazy. I didn't realize how much I missed being with a woman until I joined the Coast Guard and was in bootcamp for two months. It wasn't really about sex or feeling horny all the time (because I didn't really have time to even feel that way), I just missed women, I can't really explain it except I just missed the intimacy. Touching, cuddling, kissing etc....Someone who is constantly rejected over and over again I can see why they would feel hurt over it and how it can be painful. Personally I don't care if I'm rejected, it's gotten to the point in which I'm numb to it. I hate the tease of it because I can get a girls number and go out on a few dates but it never goes further to the point that I just count down the days and see if I can time it right so when I get that text "Hey you're a nice guy but......"
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 103
In general, is rejection more difficult for men or for women?
Posted: 10/16/2014 8:01:03 PM

Activemelaney, on my case its a discomfort for me to be rejected b/c...well, why do you think I'm even asking someone out? On a lark? :) couldn't find a better conversation starter? :) I'm doing it for a specific purpose, and I failed to obtain that specific purpose. I want something pleasurable and beneficial (not just sex, the whole enchilada), and I'm being turned down for that experience. Its like thinking you're gonna, I don't know, get paid $100 for your work and then you find out you aren't. its a bummer.

You can't compare service for pay to projected interest that isn't established. Either someone is interested in you or they aren't. All you're doing by asking is finding out either way. It's not a mission you failed to accomplish. Dating isn't done in business plan terms because it involves the consent of another human being to progress.

It may even be likely, that the person I'm asking isn't a stranger, but someone I know and have to keep conducting a prior relationship with...which exists no longer, since I "went there". I took a gamble and it failed. Who enjoys failure? Well, if you have a decent success rate, then failure isn't that big of a deal. Fail 80% of time or more, however...its like watching a person lose $10. A millionaire doesn't care, a homeless person sure does. that $10 loss means less to the one who has much more money to lose.

A lack of attraction isn't failure. It's not an affront to anyone. It just is what it is. You aren't at fault for learning it, and they aren't at fault for informing you. How much control do you think you have over a woman's basic interest?

I don't ask people out b/c I'm lonely--I'm used to being alone. Getting a date is actually an encumberance--I have to plan the time driving out to meet them, driving to the destination, driving them home, driving myself home, etc. easier just to go when I want, leave when I want, spend what I want. When I ask someone out, its only b/c I think they offer something that will make the time we spend together, worth all the planning and sacrifice of not doing every little thing I want, b/c they may want to check out something else instead.

Some aren't worth it. Some aren't interested in the offer. This isn't about your formula or effort or approach - you have nothing to do with how it turns out. You're just gathering information.

were I actually getting hit on all the time, as you had posted...yeah, it would be different. It feels nice to be desired by someone. I know what you mean about enjoying the chase....its all I do now. To put it in WiP's terms, I don't hit my thumb with the hammer anymore.

I hate this theory. Regardless of your options you are who you are. If no one ever hit on me it wouldn't make me suddenly long for a companion. I likely wouldn't anyway - because that's my personality.

why is dating so personal to me? I guess its b/c...I achieved everything else by 18 already :) I already had a decent place no roomies, was already learning how to cook, wasn't in debt, traveled, had my Mustang...what else was there that I really needed? Well, I had no one to share it with. It wasn't that getting a date was the center of my life (college was at that moment),it was that if I COULD achieve something, what was my excuse for not achieving it? Life wasn't for putting off, it was for living.

I don't get the someone to share things with theory - but I'm not going to minimize it, I'll just move on. I can't relate.

and having fun with someone other than just my own company...that's part of living. People who have had siblings and a life of partners may be real interested in some alone time at this part of their life. Me, I've done it in reverse--had all the "me time" already.

I have a lot of friends, I have a small amount of family - to me these are my unconditional sources of human support and interaction. Partners come and go. Those people are constant.

Try 4 decades of "no", and you may agree :) But yea, I'd love to have the "success rate" of others who think its no big deal--there's a lot in my life that I don't consider a big deal, b/c I have a lot of it. Its a bit like that joke, sex is like oxygen--no big deal until you aren't getting any.

I disagree. Again, who you are is who you are. You are either the type that makes a big deal out of pairing off or you aren't. Who you dated or didn't date isn't connected to that typically.

While dating isn't an life or death situation or comparable to homelessness both men and women have gone crazy over it and while it's never that serious, human beings are meant to have some form of intimacy with other human beings.
There are a ton of other types of people in one's life they can get interaction from. An SO is not the only form of human contact. You can set yourself up to think it is for you but for many it just isn't.

People can be homeless but as long as they have significant other with them it makes their lives slightly easier, the loneliness can make someone go crazy.

One can be content single and isolated. One can be lonely in a relationship or in a crowded room. Who you're with or not doesn't guarantee you a certain feeling.

I didn't realize how much I missed being with a woman until I joined the Coast Guard and was in boot camp for two months. It wasn't really about sex or feeling horny all the time (because I didn't really have time to even feel that way), I just missed women, I can't really explain it except I just missed the intimacy. Touching, cuddling, kissing etc....Someone who is constantly rejected over and over again I can see why they would feel hurt over it and how it can be painful.

This is all mindset, however. Sure, you can allow it to affect you that way - or you can decide not to.

Personally I don't care if I'm rejected, it's gotten to the point in which I'm numb to it. I hate the tease of it because I can get a girls number and go out on a few dates but it never goes further to the point that I just count down the days and see if I can time it right so when I get that text "Hey you're a nice guy but......"

If you're really numb to it you'll just enjoy the dates for as long as they last and move on without hesitation to meet someone new. If you are trying to figure out when it's going to go south you are likely not as numb as you think.
 Blackwood85
Joined: 5/20/2013
Msg: 104
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In general, is rejection more difficult for men or for women?
Posted: 10/16/2014 10:24:14 PM
I still feel that intimacy is an basic human instinct, it does fall under Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs and while there are other forms of intimacy that doesn't involve sex, relationships, humans still tend to want to be loved and have a sense of belonging. No matter how big or small the social group is there's still a need to feel like they belong somewhere and loved sexually and non-sexually. Which then improves their self-esteem, self-confidence, self-respect etc...Like I said intimacy isn't a physiological need but it's still a need for most people. I think it's natural to feel wanted, desired, etc...even the homeless feel the need to have sex even if that should be the last thing they should be worried about.

And while I would personally disagree with the thought process I'm assuming it's only natural that constant rejection can lead to lower self-esteem, maybe some bitterness, "what ifs" it would be like applying for jobs and not getting hired, it becomes frustrating.


If you're really numb to it you'll just enjoy the dates for as long as they last and move on without hesitation to meet someone new. If you are trying to figure out when it's going to go south you are likely not as numb as you think.


No I don't care. Maybe I'm annoyed for a day or so then I stop caring and I date again. It's like clockwork at this point. I don't want to fall into a sense of apathy towards dating because I feel that just leads to shitty dates and a negative attitude. The tease and the potential is the most annoying part, to go back to the job analogy. I had a shit ton of close calls, getting called back for an second interview, actually starting a new job only for the company to do mass layoffs right after I got hired, a company putting us on furlough right, a few weeks after I started working. Those were more frustrating than outright not getting the job.

But to each their own. I personally rather have a job and make sure my basic needs before I start worrying about dating in fact that's why I stayed single for so long before I joined the military. I didn't have a job and wasn't going to start seriously dating until I found one and brought something to the table besides my good looks.
 basilisk123
Joined: 12/17/2011
Msg: 106
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In general, is rejection more difficult for men or for women?
Posted: 10/17/2014 4:09:48 AM
I don't know about "batting eyelashes"...but I would settle for a busty woman letting me motorboat ;)
 Dee4166
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 107
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In general, is rejection more difficult for men or for women?
Posted: 10/17/2014 5:58:37 AM
@batpool....

Yet again I find that your mindset is anti-woman for some reason...In fact you come across as an actual woman -HATER, and so I'm going to go ahead and guess that at this particular point that may have more to do with your current rejections than anything else...
It's pretty tedious to hear about how "most women" this and "most women", that, frankly...which also goes for all of the other generalizations here...

BUT...far be it from me to try and negate some one else's experiences...I would just say that if these things KEEP happening to you, then maybe you need to look at the common denominator, which is YOU...


Most girls have such an incredibly high sense of entitlement that they honestly believe that they DESERVE the attention that men give them, just for being alive. It is unthinkable for girls today to show interest and put their self-esteem on the line.


Maybe the KEY words here are "most girls"....NOT women, because what you and others have described here appears to be more along the lines of behaviour due to IMMATURITY, and NOT because women have a vagina...


Maybe once women understand what average men go through every day they'll learn to show some empathy, at least.

But They don't. I've overheard women swapping stories and laughing hysterically about rejecting men.


Then you need to find some other women to hang around, STAT!!! And please...I've witnessed the exact SAME behaviour from men.Again, not all women are callous and/or lack empathy...In fact, to date, I have responded to EVERY message that has been sent to me, even if the guy is too young, lives too far away, etc. Of course I haven't gotten the thousands of messages that many of the men in the forums seem to think "most" women get, but still...
My point is that I have been polite, but firm and have never...and I repeat NEVER been obligated to block anyone...Or be rude, or whatever....
Maybe I've just been incredibly lucky, but I have had a profile on here on and off since 2007 and have ALWAYS had a policy of responding as I have, and have never felt a need to mock, or be rude to anyone that has taken the time to message me...I just respond in kind...a "Hi", gets a "Hi" back, a "You're hot", gets a thank you, etc....
Many of the women that I have seen share on here have had many problems with that stuff from what I have seen, and some don't feel obligated to respond at all to any messages that they deem inappropriate, or from men who have clearly not read their profile, etc. and....that is their RIGHT.
As it is FOR MEN, too....
Not ALL women, despite their choice as to whether or not to block and/or answer a man on here are cold-hearted b!itches, either...If they don't want to spend a lot of time answering messages from men they aren't interested in, that DOESN'T make them cold or calculating or not empathetic, etc. That just makes them people who didn''t ASK for some guy to write them and expect an answer simply because he did.
I mean really, is it the job of women everywhere to protect a man's fragile self-esteem and ensure that he isn't "scarred" from the experience?
Says YOU! Nope, that's not MY reason for being alive and frankly, I'm as empathetic as I'm going to get in this matter...

Just for your own edification...In the last week, I have texted, spoken on the phone and even spoke about meeting three different men, ALL of whom "flaked" without a WORD of explanation...and with at least two of those guys I had spoken to them at some length and felt that the conversations had gone WELL..and they had even said that they wanted to meet...After not hearing from them, I sat and thought about those convos and saw areas for improvement and determined to do better next time...and kept right on going!! And that has happened over and over and OVER again, over the years...NOT just these two times,, before anybody "jumps" on that one...lol
I DIDN'T come onto the forums and start a thread about how all men "flake", I DIDN''T "cop a 'tude" and crawl into a hole and drink myself senseless and rail against the unfairness of it all...and I certainly HAVEN'T made "a case" for how ALL or "most" men on here, off here or ANYWHERE for that matter are all evil, cold **stardz...

So please...give me a break with all of this "Terminal Uniqueness" crap...

Anyone who thinks that women have no "skills" at handling rejection because they rarely if ever ARE rejected, is just plain DELUSIONAL, imo

Even a girl that I know who is a model, gorgeous,smart,funny, too...has been cheated on more times than I ever have, had a crush on a man who wanted NOTHING to do with her for YEARS and deals with MANY insecurities and self-esteem issues as a result...or cause??? Gets a little blurry after a while which comes first,no?

Any way...this is one of those topics that I think brings out the gender bias more than most and men and women may never agree on any of it, because we ALL have had our own experiences...
I am REALLY trying here, to listen to what the men are saying...because I think that the KEY to undoing damage caused by gender bias,lies in understanding EACH OTHER, and not negating others experience...But when I hear men making fallacious generalizations that are at the bottom of most if not ALL, of the gender inequality, and help to form the attitudes that will often send an unstable man out there to do actual HARM to women as a result...Well, I just can't sit here and pretend that's okay, because it's NOT....
Also...

"Heav'n has no rage like love to hatred turn'd / Nor Hell a fury, like a woman scorn'd."


THIS is the actual quote that someone was talking about before, which is notoriously MISQUOTED, all of the time
usually when trying to "prove" just how incapable WOMEN are at handling rejection....Notice how the FIRST part is dropped, as it DOESN'T talk about women so much as "love to hatred turned"...Not the exclusive province of women, last time I checked...
 gtomustang
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 108
In general, is rejection more difficult for men or for women?
Posted: 10/17/2014 6:00:56 AM
See, that's why I like debating w/ you WiP, somewhere in there things become clear :)

I understand why you don't get the whole "share with someone" theory...you actually aren't alone in life. You have friends and family. Me, my parents lost their's by age 18, no grandparents or aunts or uncles for me, it was just them and me growing up--and I moved out by 18 b/c I couldn't stand my father's self centered-ness. They've passed on, I'm retired, most people my age are working while I'm free to go canoeing, biking, road-tripping, etc alone, like I've done the last 40 years.

Since my father loved the countryside, the only peers for me to play with growing up were a pair of dead-brained redneck boys who always got in trouble (no thanks) or a pair of girls (other than playing doctor, that didn't work as well as one might think ;) ). Since my father was under-thrilled by the local school system, I went to one where my mother worked, which was 30 miles away, so what friends I made, I saw from 7am to 2pm, then went home to be by myself or hang with my parents' adult friends. The friends, meanwhile, hung out with each other and of course bonded in ways I couldn't with my absense.

I won't belabor the point, but when I say I've spent 4 decades alone, that's not a small exaggeration. Got lots of acquaintances, get along with people, I don't drink which means I don't hang out with half the population...but after 4 decades of coming home to an empty house (latchkey child, no roomates at my apartment, no car in college) and entertaining myself...yeah, I'd love to try something different, like sharing my time with INTELLIGENT people.

you're right, a lot of people aren't worth hanging out--I really do mean i'm looking for educated, open minded, intelligent people with a lot of interests and focus (who, of course, are typically taken :) ). So I don't ask out just anyone, I pay attention to them before that, get to know them, etc. Asking them out isn't to find out what or how they are--I knew that before, or I wouldn't blindly ask them out (as you've posted before, just a simple, "hey babe, you're cute" from out of nowhere gets ignored), so in a manner, yeah, it is a business plan of sorts (business plans aren't guaranteed to work, either--most advertising is happy with a 20% capture rate). I used to blindly ask out when I was a kid, figured out that didn't work, and now pick people who seem to favor me, in order to put the odds in my favor.

People who I would actually call friends, are basically "phone friends" who live far away. One used to wonder why I made such a big deal 0ut of dating, she was constantly getting hit on and had been w/ 40 guys. That ended with the last one giving her 2 STD's, and now at age 55 she's still getting offers, but is done with dating since she's done with sex and intimacy...and dealing with what "not getting it in the forseeable future" means. So I have company now :)

It isn't that solitude is the biggest problem in my life--I enjoy it most of the time, b/c I learned how to make it work. But dating is one of the few things I haven't done enough to get bored with yet. Its not something I'm calloused over. I don't get bad dates b/c I don't get any :) Which, yeah, is part of my particular problem--I don't ask out anyone I wouldn't want to spend the time with.
 basilisk123
Joined: 12/17/2011
Msg: 109
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In general, is rejection more difficult for men or for women?
Posted: 10/17/2014 6:50:00 AM
I guess that is were we differ batpool.
I think women are not that different than guys, just the physical body mostly. Hell, even biologically speaking we all started off as female before hormones influenced us guys in the womb. It all boils down to the "grass is greener on the other side" argument. Will the sexes ever understand eachother? No, but that isn't even a bad thing.
The concept of "game" is what is wrong in us dealing with eachother. This isn't mario brothers, we don't get a gold coin or a magic racoon tail for doing a good job. So people have sex, cool! So people don't have sex, cool! The emphasis on that people are no good unless they have copious amounts of sex and that we must somehow fool eachother into letting us do it is erroneous at best.
But I digress, that was not your point.
You were saying women should feel sympathy and understanding for the plight of men who get turned down constantly. Let us say, magically, all women had sympathy for all the men that get turned down and decided to give them a chance and had a date. I can assure you the successful relationships created by such an event would be minimal at best. The reasoning is that, a man that can not take rejection and can't roll with the punches of life is not a fit partner for a successful relationship.

Ok another example. I am one of those men with "no game" and yes I did get rejected constantly back when I was looking. I took some time to reflect on this matter of being unsuccessful with women, and I came to the conclusion of "what is the meaning of success?" I realized that I really am not ready for a relationship, that I was just projecting my own insecurities by chasing the mythical perfect woman. I should have realized women are just like men. They cry, laugh, eat, sleep, and shit the same as us. They are not special, so I shouldn't feel any entitlement to one because I too am not special.

It is true however that some women feel entitled just as much as I see some men feel entitled. Both are wrong. No one is entitled, period.
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 112
In general, is rejection more difficult for men or for women?
Posted: 10/17/2014 8:55:43 AM

When men say women don't understand rejection. It's not saying that they've never faced it and can't possibly get where we are coming from. A good example is the rate of likes on something like tinder. An 8/10 girl receives roughly 30% likes/responses whereas a male model at best receives 3% worst .3%.

If they think they know rejection. I sympathise. Multiply that by at least 10 and you're at the level of rejection every man deals with. Women should not pretend like they have it the same as guys cos they don't.

If men deal with this much rejection I'd have to question their strategy. They are either terrible at interacting with other humans, or they are really just throwing anything at the wall to see what sticks. A rate like that would make me wonder if he's got time for anything else besides seeking out dates. Does he work? Sleep?

I prefer to approach all men I date, so my so called "rejection" rate (I call it lack of mutual attraction) is a lot higher - because most of the men who approach me aren't my type BECAUSE they approached me. The ones I like tend not to because they aren't super confident/arrogant which is a trait I'm turned off by.

I realize a man who's not interested in me isn't personal to me - because there are men I am not interested in. I expect this as part of the nature of dating. If I can't handle this one would say I should probably not be trying to date. JS

Most girls have such an incredibly high sense of entitlement that they honestly believe that they DESERVE the attention that men give them, just for being alive. It is unthinkable for girls today to show interest and put their self-esteem on the line.

Let's change this sentence a bit and say that women who do feel this way were taught this by men who gave them attention because they were breathing. Go bring this up at the weekly man meeting. I can't sympathize on this. Second stop posting absolute statements - I personally do not nor have I ever measured my self worth on whether or not a man gives me attention nor have I felt entitled to a man's attention (and why would I? It's not that big a deal really - attention isn't personal to me it's generic and about all women so it makes no sense to gain an ego about it).

It is difficult to be a man and express his masculine desires to a cute girl and realize that she has no interest in him. For men, learning game is the only way to deal with the constant rejections necessary to find a quality girl.

Masculine desires? Oh, FFS. And why is this difficult? Does he see it that way? It's not necessary nor is it difficult. It is a first world problem - and there are WAY WAY worse things that could be happening in his life. Sorry. I can't empathize.

Maybe once women understand what average men go through every day they'll learn to show some empathy, at least. But They don't. I've overheard women swapping stories and laughing hysterically about rejecting men.

Some women are morons. Why entertain these women at all?

Interestingly, when men angrily turn down an LJBF offer, we're accused of 'not being able to take rejection' but when a women is rejected (not kicked out of bed in the morning, but fully rejected, like guys are every day) it's always a category 5 estrogen-storm freak-out.

No it isn't ALWAYS anything - again quit throwing all women in one category. Some women don't care if men accept a friendship, and aren't losing sleep over a guy not being into us. I know I'm not - and if I'm not there have to be others by the sheer nature of odds.

If this is your experience, you need to adjust some things in your way of dealing with life. Just don't try to speak for all men or women, it's not your place to do so.

See, that's why I like debating w/ you WiP, somewhere in there things become clear :)

I understand why you don't get the whole "share with someone" theory...you actually aren't alone in life. You have friends and family. Me, my parents lost their's by age 18, no grandparents or aunts or uncles for me, it was just them and me growing up--and I moved out by 18 b/c I couldn't stand my father's self centered-ness. They've passed on, I'm retired, most people my age are working while I'm free to go canoeing, biking, road-tripping, etc alone, like I've done the last 40 years, et. al...
...It isn't that solitude is the biggest problem in my life--I enjoy it most of the time, b/c I learned how to make it work. But dating is one of the few things I haven't done enough to get bored with yet. Its not something I'm calloused over. I don't get bad dates b/c I don't get any :) Which, yeah, is part of my particular problem--I don't ask out anyone I wouldn't want to spend the time with.

I would say that your situation is very rare and not typical of most people. So is mine - I realize I am not at all the typical woman, so I don't expect most people to understand where I am at but I do know that I can't be the only one out there like me either.

Basilisk123, post 130 has the right idea. There are situations of all kinds regardless of gender, or level of attractiveness or financial standing or location. To try and throw everyone in one box not only gives you a false sense of what's happening - it causes a rift in genders and instead of solving anything it makes things worse.

If a man that I am trying to get to know views "women" as the enemy, what does that make me?

Agreed. If as a man or woman your approach is "I think everyone sucks, who wants to prove me wrong?" You need to get off the dating market and go work on yourself. No one wants to sign up for a job to try kill off your negative stereotypes - nor should they be asked to.
 gtomustang
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 113
In general, is rejection more difficult for men or for women?
Posted: 10/17/2014 2:18:29 PM
Generally speaking, when a fellow makes a comment about what "all" or "most" women do or fail to do, I suspect what they really mean is:

"the women who are hot enough for me to notice"

out of all the human beings out there, we tend to notice...the ones we want something from :) Everyone else becomes a wallflower. Part of that is just how our brains are wired--if we processed every stimuli, we'd stop functioning from the overload.

Yes, there are women out there who aim to use men. Guess what men notice them the most out of all varieties of women out there to notice? the type of guy looking for what HE can get from people. "Birds of a feather" and all that.
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