Plentyoffish dating forums are a place to meet singles and get dating advice or share dating experiences etc. Hopefully you will all have fun meeting singles and try out this online dating thing... Remember that we are the largest free online dating service, so you will never have to pay a dime to meet your soulmate.
     
Show ALL Forums  > Science/philosophy  >      Home login  
 AUTHOR
 wvwaterfall
Joined: 1/17/2007
Msg: 41
view profile
History
Who Killed the Electric Car - documovie -What if it was not deadPage 2 of 5    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5)
Oh,wait, there's more:


Posted on the Phoenix Motors website:


The electric car, back from the dead

The electric-car quandry is almost over. Until now, you could get
either a low-speed "neighborhood" vehicle that couldn't break the 40
mph barrier, or an electric supercar like the Tesla Roadster that
sells for $90,000. But Ontario, California--based Phoenix Motorcars
is about to unveil a $45,000 truck and an SUV that will go from zero
to 60 in 10 seconds, travel 200 to 250 miles, and keep up with
highway traffic. At the heart of the Phoenix is a new variant of the
lithium-ion battery, made by Altair Nanotechnologies. It replaces the
carbon anodes of old with nanosized lithium-titanate particles, which
don't overheat and allow the car to recharge in about 15 minutes
using a special charger, or in six to seven hours using a wall
socket. The first two production runs--500 this year, 6,000 in 2008--
will be sold to fleet owners to work out the final kinks before the
Phoenix is offered up to the general public. "What we're saying,"
says Phoenix CEO Dan Elliott, "is you can have your cake and eat it
too."



Looks like the future is here,

Dave
 Ahoytheredave
Joined: 8/29/2006
Msg: 43
view profile
History
Who Killed the Electric Car - documovie -What if it was not dead
Posted: 2/26/2007 9:24:11 PM
SoTex, I find it interesting how you seem to want the government to solve the issue but you don't like the current administration. It really is the untimate irony. The problem with counting on government is that Murphy's law applies to government more than anything man has ever conceived.

By the way, Texas is the largest producer of wind energy (bird wackers?) in the US and is not slowing down. That trend started under Gov Bush. About once a month, I drive past a factory that used to make oil rigs but now it makes wind turbines. It appears to be exceeding its capacity and in need of expansion. I often see these turbines being shipped north out of Texas. I guess the oil rigs of the Texas past will be replaced with wind generators. That will really be attractive.

The reality is, you can't just build a factory and start making things like solar panels. The intellectual property issues get in the way. Having designed many things currently being built in factories and having my name as the only inventor listed on the patents for some of these products, I feel I have a pretty good perspective on the whole system. That system is badly broken. The patents have been a negative value to me yet have made millions for the lawyers even though none have ever been involved in any litigation. I am familiar with a number of closed factories that would cost more than their space is worth to remodel or destroy due to asbestos. As a consequence, the buildings sit empty and decaying. Its cheaper for Walmart to slap up a new box to kill local businesses and sell communist child and slave labor knockoffs.

The political party of Bush would love to invest in the factories you want but the opposition party of the lawyers wants to take away all the profits of such endevours. As a consequence, the investment money goes to "developing" countries excempt from many pollution, safety, and labor regulations. These countries' populations are practically free of lawyers and civil rights. Walmart then uses its predatory marketing skills to push these knockoff products on the public. Be careful what you ask for, you just might get it.
 Ahoytheredave
Joined: 8/29/2006
Msg: 45
view profile
History
Who Killed the Electric Car - documovie -What if it was not dead
Posted: 2/27/2007 10:33:18 PM
Actually, that power company has been bought and most of the planned coal plants are being cancelled. It would appear capitolism is doing what the environmental groups and their lawyers couldn't and politics had sold out for.

Your comment about Bush and the EPA is exactly my point. If you empower government to do something, Murphy's law tells us that power will be used for opposite results depending on political winds.

So what are the three most common gasses in the atmosphere? Number three suprises most people because that is not what they were taught nor what most kids are taught today. I wonder if Al Gore could answer the question correctly.
 wvwaterfall
Joined: 1/17/2007
Msg: 46
view profile
History
Who Killed the Electric Car - documovie -What if it was not dead
Posted: 2/28/2007 5:22:38 AM
Catching up a bit here:

Jerry, it may well be true that there have always been those who tinkered with electric cars and sold a few, but a 400 employee manufacturing facility ups the ante significantly and takes us beyond the tinkerer stage.

SoTexDavid, interestingly, Clinton DID make an effort to be the sustainability president you describe, setting up a Presidents Council on Sustainable Development that made some powerful recommendations, but alas, the effort withered on the vine, apparently ahead of its time even though there are those like you and I who feel we should have been taking those steps long ago.

And unfortunately my own senators Rockefeller and Byrd are devoting most of their efforts to promote ‘clean coal ‘ technology, in an inevitably futile effort to breathe a bit more life into an industry ultimately destined to go the way of whale oil as an energy source. Although not at all the same concept as you envision, Rockefeller did ten years ago recruit an ultra-modern, progressive Toyota manufacturing facility to the state that today is perhaps the most sought after place to work in the blue collar world here, with hundreds of applicants for each new opening, and a facility that for the past five years has put absolutely nothing into a landfill, finding productive homes for everything from metal tailings to lunchroom waste.

And Ahoytheredave, (has anyone pondered the significance of the preponderance of Dave’s here?) you do know, I hope, that cars, office windows, and domestic cats are far more deserving of the ‘bird whacker’ tag than windmills are. Major strides have been made to minimize bird kills at modern windfarms. And that texas power company buyout and subsequent canceling of most of the planned coal facilities was accomplished THROUGH negotiations with environmental groups and their lawyers, not in spite of them.

I do agree that there are serious problems with the global economy as it exists today, exploiting major social imbalances, but see signs that better balance is in the offing as more and more major corporations start to embrace sustainable strategies. Sustainability is commonly viewed as an environmental strategy, but social health is one of the three primary pillars, joining economic and environmental health.

I do believe government could and should be playing a better leadership role, but am also heartened by the leadership being exhibited by progressive corporate leaders in almost all business sectors.

Dave
 Ahoytheredave
Joined: 8/29/2006
Msg: 47
view profile
History
Who Killed the Electric Car - documovie -What if it was not dead
Posted: 2/28/2007 11:09:35 AM
From one Dave to the plethora of Daves, the point of the label "bird wacker" is to point out that nothing is free. After a while, the open countryside seems blighted with wind turbines on every ridge.
It would be nice if every family could live in a self sustaining dwelling but there are simply too many people and not enough land to do that. Urban concentrations reduce our footprint on the planet but to sustain them, we need infrastructure to deliver food, water, and energy. These people must also be productive and that requires transportation. Not everybody can have a taxpayer supported job caring for wildlife. Some people need to be developing the technologies and knowledge base to still further reduce the human footprint. The computer and internet infrastructure you use to post these messages came from a vast array of human knowledege and industry including much gained from the pursuit of war machines. The real issue of sustainability becomes a tradeoff between humans and "natural" ecosystems. If we wish to limit population growth, then we face an interesting delima. A volunteer effort will only reduce the polulation of families who wish to reduce the human footprint and will do nothing to slow the growth of families who don't care about it. Imagine the issues involved if population growth were to be forceably limited. Nature solves the problem with starvation, diseases, and deadly conflict. Nature doesn't seem to care about those who do not live by survival of the fittest. Those people most in favor of reducing human footprint tend to be the same ones most against the solutions nature uses. They prefer to forcably take from the productive people and pay people to be poor and fertile. The net result is more people wanting the job of being poor with little desire to do anything else.
 Hozo
Joined: 8/1/2006
Msg: 51
view profile
History
Who Killed the Electric Car - documovie -What if it was not dead
Posted: 3/3/2007 8:50:01 PM
But Ontario, California--based Phoenix Motorcars
is about to unveil a $45,000 truck and an SUV that will go from zero
to 60 in 10 seconds, travel 200 to 250 miles, and keep up with
highway traffic. At the heart of the Phoenix is a new variant of the
lithium-ion battery, made by Altair Nanotechnologies. It replaces the
carbon anodes of old with nanosized lithium-titanate particles, which
don't overheat and allow the car to recharge in about 15 minutes
using a special charger, or in six to seven hours using a wall
socket.


Well, theres that $10,000 battery I referred to in a previous post. LOL. Still impractical for the masses - presently a "fringe" auto.

BUT...its a start. If it DOES take hold & gets mass produced, prices would surely come down. Here is where the hybrid crowd can make their mark...STOP buying into hybrids & embrace this technology with your extra enviro-friendly $$$.

Hybrids , to me, are the VCRs of the auto industry. A Teutonic nightmare of too many moving parts & expensive high maintenance systems to contend with & maintain. The simplicity of a true electric car would be the way to go once the costs are contained realistically for the other 95% of us.
 whitesburgwade1
Joined: 4/20/2006
Msg: 53
view profile
History
Who Killed the Electric Car - documovie -What if it not dead
Posted: 3/6/2007 4:32:03 PM
I rode in a semi mass produced electric car in the late 70s. The owner used it to drive in town and loved it.I guess opec lowered prices and killed it. I would love to have one.
 Roverdisc1
Joined: 12/16/2005
Msg: 55
Who Killed the Electric Car - documovie -What if it was not dead
Posted: 3/18/2007 1:57:13 AM
I sincerely hope you are not quoting "that guy" in his last days of office. Do you realize that his last days in office have been marked by the biggest atroscities that have been seen by a public administration?

I don't care what the issue, the final days of the Clinton administration can be categorized only by that of tyranny and corruption of power.

Please tell me how it is any different and I may argue with you.
 CharlesEdm
Joined: 9/16/2006
Msg: 56
Who Killed the Electric Car - documovie -What if it was not dead
Posted: 3/18/2007 2:33:53 AM

I sincerely hope you are not quoting "that guy" in his last days of office. Do you realize that his last days in office have been marked by the biggest atroscities that have been seen by a public administration?


CITE!

I'd suspect rosovelts would have been worse.

You never do get tired of pulling facts out of your ass do you?
 Roverdisc1
Joined: 12/16/2005
Msg: 57
Who Killed the Electric Car - documovie -What if it was not dead
Posted: 3/21/2007 11:19:39 PM
I pull facts from sources Charles, but it does seem that you and AL Whore don't even bother pulling facts from your ass*s, you just forget to include them.
 Roverdisc1
Joined: 12/16/2005
Msg: 61
Who Killed the Electric Car - documovie -What if it not dead
Posted: 3/22/2007 12:04:25 AM
A bottle of crisco costs more than gas.
 CharlesEdm
Joined: 9/16/2006
Msg: 63
Who Killed the Electric Car - documovie -What if it was not dead
Posted: 3/22/2007 2:53:20 AM

The government is only good at three things- killing people, jailing people, and taxing people.


They do better with healthcare to.

Otherwise I got nothing to add to this thread.
 CharlesEdm
Joined: 9/16/2006
Msg: 67
Who Killed the Electric Car - documovie -What if it was not dead
Posted: 3/23/2007 5:00:08 AM
I pull facts from sources Charles, but it does seem that you and AL Whore don't even bother pulling facts from your ass*s, you just forget to include them.


This is your response to my request for a citation? Hey when have I not posted links? I was guessing rosovelt as the period of worst atrocities because that was during the course of WW 2 Einstein. I pull facts out of my ass. *hah*


Ask someone who was at Walter Reed Army Hospital in the past sixty years.


Thanks for making my point. If you actually knew anything about private vs public healthcare you would have read it was outsourced.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17489352/
 rsx11s
Joined: 3/28/2007
Msg: 68
Who Killed the Electric Car - documovie -What if it was not dead
Posted: 4/12/2007 11:30:23 PM
The EV1 failed because GM made it. It's like buggy whip makers making gasoline cars.

Electric cars are absoutly the future. Any vehicle that can be powered (indirectly) by sun, wind and (falling) water can only be win/win.

Here's a few of the current (pun intended) contenders:

http://www.computerworld.com.au/index.php?id=1484295143
http://www.wrightspeed.com/x1.html
http://www.commutercars.com/
http://www.teslamotors.com/index.php?js_enabled=1
http://www.a123systems.com/html/home.html
http://www.hybridtechnologies.com/products.php?sec=1&id=3
http://www.plasmaboyracing.com/blog/
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/7.03/drag_pr.html
 Kings_Knight
Joined: 1/20/2009
Msg: 69
Who Killed the Electric Car - documovie -What if it not dead
Posted: 4/15/2012 9:27:27 PM

" ... After seeing the documentary movie "Who Killed The Electric Car"
I couldn't help asking myself the question.
What if the Electric car was not killed?? ... "


The electric car, contrary to presumptions made in the OP, was not 'killed' - it died a natural death because the MARKET decided it didn't want it. The 'death' of the electric car was entirely predictable: 80 miles on a battery charge, exploding batteries, no charging infrastructure, long recharge times, etc etc.

The fact that electric cars are, in addition, not as 'green' as they claim, nor do they reduce emissions as claimed, are additional factors that work against them. Electric cars need ... say it with me ... ELECTRICITY to operate. Where does the electricity come from? It comes from POWER PLANTS. The power plants generate electricity with the use of oil, natural gas, coal, or nuclear as fuelstock. The more electric cars there are, the more emissions generated by the power plant(-s) to satisfy the energy demands of the 'electric hogs'.

Smaller is not necessarily better, especially in a crash. Mass = survival. Larger cars provide a greater safety margin than do these cute little coffins on wheels. Larger cars are also more stable in highway driving, esp. when a semi-trailer's big bow wave comes at them from the side.

The only thing the electric car has going for is is 'smug appeal'. Owners generally have a supercilious sense of being 'better people' than those 'cretins' who drive vehicles with the fictional 'huge carbon footprint' marking them as 'fossil fuel' transportation. I'd like someone to explain exactly how fossils are related to petroleum products, since there are never any fossils found in the deposits (and no, the La Brea tar pits don't count as an example).

There may, one day, come a time when the electric car rules the road and we can sprinkle fairy dust on everything and make it all better again - that day will be a long time coming. Until then, there is no other fuel with the energy density or exploitable reserves equal to that which exist on the North American continent. The only thing preventing the efficient extraction and use of these reserves is the heavy dead hand of government interference - which is, btw, the same heavy dead hand promoting the electric car. If the electric car is being killed, it's being killed by government's attempt to dictate to the market what it 'should' like.
 BalderDog2
Joined: 1/6/2011
Msg: 71
Who Killed the Electric Car - documovie -What if it not dead
Posted: 4/16/2012 5:13:23 PM

The only thing the electric car has going for is is 'smug appeal'. Owners generally have a supercilious sense of being 'better people' than those 'cretins' who drive vehicles with the fictional 'huge carbon footprint' marking them as 'fossil fuel' transportation.


Yes, I saw that South Park episode, also. However, most of us don't live in a cartoon-world; do you have any proof that people here in the real world, who drive electric cars, are more "smug" than those who drive other kinds. If you don't have the proof, we can assume you are just making things up.
 BalderDog2
Joined: 1/6/2011
Msg: 73
Who Killed the Electric Car - documovie -What if it not dead
Posted: 4/16/2012 7:10:00 PM

Hey balder..............

you asked:
"do you have any proof that people here in the real world, who drive electric cars, are more "smug" than those who drive other kinds."

Yep....... experience.


That's not proof. That's just you telling a story which may or may not be true. And if it is true, that's just one person--hardly a big enough sample to conclude that people who own electric cars are smug.

It has been my experience that people who drive big expensive cars and have millions of dollars are narcissistic A$$es; but that is not proof that everyone who drives big expensive cars and have millions of dollars are narcissistic A$$es, it only means that without exception, each and every one of the thousands of people who drive big expensive cars and have millions of dollars whom I have personally met, are narcissistic A$$es.
 BalderDog2
Joined: 1/6/2011
Msg: 75
Who Killed the Electric Car - documovie -What if it not dead
Posted: 4/16/2012 7:58:20 PM
Now I prefaced what I wrote with "my experience", you went on to say how ALL without exception, people who drove nice cars are narcissistic A$$es.


You must of missed this part:


whom I have personally met


This means, every one I have personally met are narcissistic A$$es. I did not say all people everywhere who drive big expensive cars and have millions of dollars are narcissistic A$$es, it simply means the couple of thousand that I have personally met, are.
 BalderDog2
Joined: 1/6/2011
Msg: 77
Who Killed the Electric Car - documovie -What if it not dead
Posted: 4/16/2012 8:55:10 PM

I just found it incredible that EVERYBODY you have ever met that drove a nice car was an A$$.


You are getting off topic, but here you go misquoting me again. I did not say everybody I have ever met who drove a nice car was an A$$. I said, everyone who drives a big expensive car and has millions of dollars, whom I have personally met, are narcissistic A$$es.

I have met lots of people who have nice cars, but don't have the millions, and they were all very nice. Toss in the few million and they seem to feel the world owes them. They have a sense of entitlement. They become pigs at the trough, slobbering in to their drool-encrusted maws as much swill as they can, as fast as they can, choking and farting as they shovel it in, less someone else might get some.
 Kings_Knight
Joined: 1/20/2009
Msg: 78
Who Killed the Electric Car - documovie -What if it not dead
Posted: 4/16/2012 9:56:33 PM
@ Nr 79 ...


" ... They have a sense of entitlement. They become pigs at the trough, slobbering in to their drool-encrusted maws as much swill as they can, as fast as they can, choking and farting as they shovel it in, less someone else might get some. ... "


Whoaaaaaaaaaa ... "pigs at the trough" ... ? Why, surely you can't mean all those nice people who've already purchased one of these neat 'Green-O' electric vee-hick-uls and, after experiencing the 'joys of ownership', say they'll never own another one and their next car will be ( gasp! ) ... an internal-combustion-engined vehicle ... that couldn't possibly be what you were saying in your nastily-worded reply to Paul K, could it ... ? If you doubt (as you've shown you have a tendency to) the truth of this heretofore virtually unimaginable turnabout by these 'green traitors', why, I have your evidence right here ... I'm sure after you read it you'll come to your senses and realize not all that plugs in is green - and the only ones who like these things are the salesmen whose commission checks grow just a bit larger after they convince these 'Barnum Buyer' types that their purchase is 'saving the planet' or some other ridiculous emotion-based pap and drivel ... As you may suspect, I have no intention of giving up my big American-made 'Detroit Iron' ride which transports me over the road with a soft marshmallow-y ride and sips gas so efficiently that my average miles-per-gallon number is usually between 25 and 30 ...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

http://green.autoblog.com/2012/04/09/one-and-done-study-says-most-hybrid-drivers-dont-buy-another/

One and Done: Study says most hybrid drivers don't buy another

How much do hybrid drivers really, truly like their cars? According to R.L. Polk, not all that much – at least not in 2011.

Polk has released a new hybrid loyalty analysis that concludes that only 35 percent of people who bought a hybrid bought another one last year. The data comes from car purchases made in 2011, and Polk found that Toyota Prius drivers are the most loyal, both to the gas-electric technology and to Toyota itself. Sixty percent of Toyota hybrid owners bought another vehicle from the automaker, even if it wasn't a hybrid. A recent J.D. Power Customer Retention Study found that the average brand loyalty was 49 percent, but that doesn't take powertrains into account.

According to Polk, forty-one percent of Toyota hybrid drivers choose to buy another hybrid (from any brand). Interestingly, when Polk took out these Toyota buyers from their results, hybrid loyalty rates dropped to "under 25 percent." However, in our book that's kind of skewing the numbers, since most hybrids sold in the U.S. are built by Toyota. When looking only at Honda hybrid drivers, for example, 52 percent bought another Honda and "just under 20 percent" purchased another hybrid (from any brand). The in-brand loyalty, says Brad Smith, director of Polk's Loyalty Management Practice, shows that hybrids "can certainly give a brand a competitive edge when it comes to attracting new customers."

What's perhaps most interesting is that changes in gas prices, "had little impact on hybrid segment loyalty," according to Polk. In the company's quarterly hybrid analysis from 2008 through 2011, loyalty rates ranged from 26.4 to 41.8 percent, but spent most of the time in the 30s.
 BalderDog2
Joined: 1/6/2011
Msg: 79
Who Killed the Electric Car - documovie -What if it not dead
Posted: 4/17/2012 5:10:38 AM
Why, surely you can't mean all those nice people who've already purchased one of these neat 'Green-O' electric vee-hick-uls and, after experiencing the 'joys of ownership', say they'll never own another one and their next car will be ( gasp! ) ... an internal-combustion-engined vehicle ... that couldn't possibly be what you were saying in your nastily-worded reply to Paul K, could it ... ?


Nope, I didn't mean those folks at all. I've found that people who own hybrid cars are all very nice, unless they also are worth a couple of million bucks. If they own a hybrid, or any other type of car, and have the million bucks, then I've found they are also narcissistic A$$es, who are so selfish and self centered and have such a sense of entitlement, they are like pigs at the trough, slobbering in to their drool-encrusted maws as much swill as they can, as fast as they can, choking and farting as they shovel it in, less someone else might get some.

I have also noticed that either of these two types of people--rich or not rich--if they own a hybrid car, seem to be very please with it and all say they would buy another. In fact, they all say the only problem with the hybrid car is that it is not "green" enough.
 jlbiv
Joined: 9/2/2011
Msg: 82
Who Killed the Electric Car - documovie -What if it not dead
Posted: 4/19/2012 3:22:48 AM

It seems like the recharge time might be solved by having the battery be swapped out at a 'battery station'... the 'battery station' would keep a bunch of them charging at all times... you just pull up, swap the drained one for a charged one, and drive off.
Of course... electric car batteries I've seen are awfully darn big...


No kidding! lol... When we pull batteries out of a Volt, you need a lift, then a special jack, with a special rig attached to it so it can be secured to the jack. Oh, and you need special class 0 insulated gloves and other safety equipment (high voltage, enough to kill you), and about 3.5 to 5 hrs of time to change the battery out. Not terribly practical.

Not sure if everyone knows this... but cars like the Chevy Volt, have a gas engine. It doesn't drive the car, but it does start occasionally to charge the batteries, or to cycle out the old gas.
 BalderDog2
Joined: 1/6/2011
Msg: 83
Who Killed the Electric Car - documovie -What if it not dead
Posted: 4/19/2012 7:02:44 AM
The Union of Concerned Scientists released a report today called "State of Charge" that finds that on average plug-in cars are less polluting than gasoline-powered vehicles in the U.S. But the greenhouse gases emitted from electric vehicles depends on the sources of electricity.


Paul, you get kudos for referencing an "anti-conservative" source; however, it appears you didn't read it all. It continues...


Electric vehicles charged in areas with cleaner sources of electricity yields the equivalent of over 50 miles per gallon, better than the most fuel-efficient gasoline or diesel cars today. Those areas include most of the western states and most of the states on the eastern seaboard, which rely more on hydropower, natural gas, or nuclear. These regions as "best" for plug-ins cover about 45 percent of the U.S. population.

"This report's analysis shows that consumers should feel confident that driving an electric vehicle yields lower global warming emissions than the average new compact gasoline-powered vehicle," according to the report.

The authors note there are other benefits to driving plug-in electric vehicles, including lower costs per mile and reducing oil consumption.

Plug-in electric vehicles come with a higher price tag, but the Union of Concerned Scientists study estimates that over the life of the car a driver could save over 6,000 gallons of gasoline and $13,000 by driving an all-electric vehicle, compared to an average compact gasoline car. That assumes $3.50 per gallon gasoline, the U.S. average for electricity prices which is 11 cents per kilowatt-hour, and 15,000 miles a year for 15 years.

Drivers can also lower their electric charging costs by taking advantage of off-peak rates or EV-specific rates.
 patrick28t
Joined: 7/28/2008
Msg: 86
Who Killed the Electric Car - documovie -What if it not dead
Posted: 4/19/2012 10:23:07 PM

The electricity MUST come from somewhere.............................


Absolutely. But note that you're still solving/delaying energy issues. Coal isn't feasible to be burned in a car - but you can realistically use it in a power plant somewhere else. And should one want to change to a greener type of electricity, then boom, no need to change the electric vehicle infrastructure.

The whole problem is compounded with poor city planning, where suburban people need to drive far to get to their workplaces, but that's not easy to change...

The reason electric cars are dead is because of the consumer. Consumers dictate what they want to buy. Until the day gasoline becomes more expensive than electric, gasoline will rule. Money talks. If people cared enough about fuel economy, we wouldn't be driving around in 2800 lb Honda Civics anymore, loaded with creature comforts, airbags, AC, etc. Back in the 70s, they knew how to make a 1700 lb Civic. Not enough economic pressure on consumers to ask for such a thing, nor is there enough economic pressure to cause governments to lift requirements for crash safety.

Ultimately, driving will become more expensive, more unaffordable for the poor, but the world isn't all rosy... One day, people will have to put up with dead batteries. No matter how you slice it, it won't be as good as gas.

Gasoline is amazing. A relatively safe liquid to handle, liberates ~114 000 Btu per gallon. When I'm an old man, one day I'll fondly reminisce about that beautiful stuff that went out of mass usage... hopefully it will still be affordable for the occasional Sunday drive of my gasoline-burning sports car.

Electric cars are coming back. The only question is when. I'm 22, it'll probably happen in my lifetime.

For the electric range problem, I could see running on battery power until one reaches an important artery/freeway, then recharging on the fly. Normal streets would stay how they are, but major roads would be electrified, so intercity trips could still be done. I suppose you'd be SOL if you wanted to travel in the non-electrified boondocks, but that's life!
 wvwaterfall
Joined: 1/17/2007
Msg: 88
view profile
History
Who Killed the Electric Car - documovie -What if it not dead
Posted: 4/20/2012 2:11:50 PM
The electric car is far from dead. In fact a recent study shows that electric cars are being adopted quicker than hybrids were when first introduced.

For many consumers, they don't make good sense right now, but as battery technology and charging options improve AND as gas prices continue to rise they'll become more and more attractive.

Likewise, the 'greenness' of electric cars will steadily improve as the nation continues to shift to cleaner electricity supplies. When I bought my Prius in the Fall of 2003 coal supplied over half of the nation's electricity. Today coal is down to 45%, and looks to continue to drop. Five states now produce over ten percent of their electricity from wind.

The bottom line is that both the economic and environmental bottom line of owning an electric car will only get better in the years to come. It's up to each of us individually to decide when to make the change.

I agree with Paul that the true environmental footprint has to include ALL impacts, starting with materials continuing through construction, use impacts, and ending with disposal/recycling costs. I disagree with him that no one includes those impacts, as quite a few footprint analyses do just that.

So the smart thing to do is keep driving what you've got until it either wears out or stops being economically viable, then consider all available options and pick your next ride based on whatever values mean most to you. I didn't buy the first Prius version because it as a four door sedan not suitable for my hauling needs. When they came out with a hatchback I bought one of the first available in the state, as I can sleep in it, haul a couple of kayaks in it, or a bundle of 10 foot 2x4's if need be. Eight and a half years and 189,000 miles later it's still going strong, still giving me 500 plus miles per tank, and having tracked every drop of gas I've put in it I know it's achieved 52 mpg lifetime, through all conditions.

I hope to get many more years out of it, and whenever the day does come to replace it will look hard at whatever pure electric options are out there.
Show ALL Forums  > Science/philosophy  >