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Show ALL Forums  > Dating Experiences  > How do you tell if your a victim of Racism?      Home login  
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 cedar77
Joined: 7/17/2006
Msg: 76
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How do you tell if your a victim of Racism?Page 4 of 19    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19)
i am a college professor, bro, and i do not appreciate the insults!

I don't know if I insulted you...certainly nothing even close to *sshole...
you are a proffessor???......ahhh.... from your post's you are extremely left wing ..so on the very left leaning political aspect of institution's...I rest my case.
 cedar77
Joined: 7/17/2006
Msg: 77
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How do you tell if your a victim of Racism?
Posted: 2/27/2007 7:25:09 PM
oh ,one more thing.....

affirmative action is quite rare indeed. even at its highest, the percentage of students or employees a school or employer will set aside for minority applicants is 10%. many times it is lower than that, not to mention that many companies and schools don't have ANY such minimum. so, for you to allege that it is VERY common can't possibly be true. it can only occur a maximum of 10% of the time and that is only in those institutions that have such a policy. which means it is quite rare.

ummmm ..hello? ...I think your numbers are low....but 10% means million's, and that's not small or rare !!
....incidently ,why don't you quit your job and offer it to a visible minority???...if you feel so guilty and you feel it's the answer.... put your money where your mouth is....why do you expect other's to pay the price for your guilt complex???

 molly__blooming
Joined: 4/6/2006
Msg: 78
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How do you tell if your a victim of Racism?
Posted: 2/28/2007 5:53:12 AM

Merf...good job taking what was intended out of context...again. I didn't say anyone was letting discrimination stop them, I said they shouldn't. If discrimination wasn't holding someone back from something you would have no basis on which to place your argument that white=privilege.


daydreamer, i was simply responding to what YOU said: that if faced with discrimination against women you wouldn't let it stop you... as if there are people letting discrimination stop them. that was the obvious implication of your statement.

but you DIDN'T say who is being held back from something BY discrimination, you said you wouldn't LET discrimination hold you back. that's different from being victimized by it -- not letting it stop you means you are going to keep on truckin even though you are aware of the existence of discrimination. these are different things. i have never said discrimination is a thing of the past, never.

OF COURSE it is still discrimination occurring, as i said, i have witnessed it in action more than once. it is also true that since the 60's the problem has been significantly reduced, thankfully.

hmm. regarding your comment about this not being my classroom? i was simply sharing something with you that i thought you might be interested in.
 cedar77
Joined: 7/17/2006
Msg: 79
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How do you tell if your a victim of Racism?
Posted: 2/28/2007 5:03:14 PM
I'm offended by your approach and put off by how little emphasis you place on discrimination against people who are honestly trying to right a wrong that they had little or nothing to do with.

907daydreamer ...
That is exactly right...
It is very offensive ...and the approach is offensive...and it is narrow minded , intolerant, closed minded and hypocritical.
But most of all, it just plain lack's common sense ...which is: it is alway's wrong to discriminate.
...simple enough concept ,you would think .
 cedar77
Joined: 7/17/2006
Msg: 80
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How do you tell if your a victim of Racism?
Posted: 2/28/2007 11:25:13 PM
The Supreme Court first lent Constitutional legitimacy to the practice of affirmative action in its landmark 1978 decision in Regents of the University of California v. Bakke. Written by Justice Lewis Powell, the decision does not permit the use of quotas to achieve racial diversity, but it does allow race to be one of many factors in determining admission to a university.

Beyond the technicalities of the case, Bakke unquestionably declares diversity in education to be a legitimate and compelling government interest. Despite applying “strict scrutiny,” the most rigorous test in the Court’s a***nal, to admissions criteria based on race, a majority of the justices found that universities can take race into account when making admissions decisions. This majority was very slim: four justices adamantly maintained that race should play no role in admissions decisions, and even Justice Powell wrote that it should play only a limited role.Copyright Harvard Political Review, 2007. All rights reserved.

Bakke was a huge "landmark" WIN for affirmative action!! .....it was a free pass sanctioned by the supreme court to discriminate against white's ....it just forbid the use the method of actual quota's....but they are quota's in a sense aren't they?....nice trick!!


i get a bit tired of people critizing professors as left wing liberals b/c you don't agree with them. for so many people who attack the college liberals, it's a way of avoiding a discussion and use the right wing media as their source of information. it's an old trick. invalidate the messenger and you invalidate the message.


I think left wing liberal's are often way out of touch, arrogant, hypocritical and elitist....but if anyone of any political view is sincere , I will respect their right to an opinion...and their freedom of speech ....which ironically, is certainly not alway's the policy of the left!
IMO..universities are on average extremely left wing....(as seen in their policy of supporting affirmative action despite popular and democratic opposition just as one small but very significant example)...certainly way left of centre in term's of the population as a whole.....this by and large applies to the media as well.
and...
Excuse me?....what "old trick"?....
Who is avoiding discussion?? ....is that not what we are doing here???
 molly__blooming
Joined: 4/6/2006
Msg: 81
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How do you tell if your a victim of Racism?
Posted: 3/1/2007 5:16:09 AM
What do you want Merf, names and phone numbers? PEOPLE ...human beings... are held at a disadvantage when they are discriminated against. SOME PEOPLE may allow that disadvantage to impact what schools they apply to, what jobs they apply for and some will let it keep them from putting forth any effort at all. This is part of what makes it wrong. Some are deterred by adversity, some don't stand up to discrimination, some even condone it. I have a pretty good notion that you are one of those people who is prone to overlook racism so long as it isn't against a minority which is why I have no interest in your article. I'm offended by your approach and put off by how little emphasis you place on discrimination against people who are honestly trying to right a wrong that they had little or nothing to do with.


ok daydreamer, let's get real here for a second -- you and i are both well aware that one of the most common stereotypes of african americans that is cherished by many white racists is the idea that black people "don't get ahead" because they sit around collecting welfare checks and making babies ("letting discrimination hold them back" unlike you of course) rather than getting out there and working hard like such white people imagine they themselves do.

[and now i can just see cedar77 shaking his head and thinking to himself, "finally merf is saying something sensible!" ahhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!]

so let's cut the crap -- when you make a comment like you did, people are going to be piqued by such remarks because they sound like a version of that wrong stereotype, because they sound like code for that kind of stereotype. which is why i asked you, at first, to explain what you meant.

names? phone numbers? no thanks. me being a person who favors racism against white people? are you kidding? i AM white you fool!

get over yourself and get real about your own issues. i think it is very likely that people in the past have responded to you in the same way i have because you have made similar comments which sound like racist stereotypes.

and i don't care whether you do or do not read the article i posted, which isn't ABOUT racism against non-minorities, it is about privilege of non-minorities, a phenomenon you are highly ignorant about.
 cedar77
Joined: 7/17/2006
Msg: 82
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How do you tell if your a victim of Racism?
Posted: 3/1/2007 12:55:02 PM
I'm done having a conversation with someone who acts like they know what I mean without the influence of READING WHAT WAS ACTUALLY WRITTEN. That would be a little closer to the definition of ignorance, dontcha think?


This is a very common hypocrisy of some people. It is not only ignorant ......it is prejudice in the true sense of the term ......since they have prejudged you because you won't agree with their hypocritical politically correct ways. They put people in boxes and then try to marginalize anyone who doesn't fit in with their concept's. They will even go as far as to put word's in peoples mouth's ....based on their need's for justification.

They are narrow minded totalitarian's who can't handle the truth ..because it would undermine their very misguided philosophy and their "I'm so good look at me , I'm a saviour to the poor victimized and pathetic minorities" arrogant self image...sometimes they even make carreers of this....people hate to face reality and reason and truth when it undermine's them personally...so they lash out at the messenger....they really are intolerant hypocrit's.
 cedar77
Joined: 7/17/2006
Msg: 83
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How do you tell if your a victim of Racism?
Posted: 3/1/2007 8:30:02 PM

I mean, it would sting to be passed over on a job because of your skin colour, but the simple fact is, a minority that is gainfully employed creates more economic spinoff than a white man that is gainfully employed. This is because other minorities now see this person as a role model.


It is racism to be "passed over for a job because of your skin colour"
The fact that we as a society have made racism legal and even gone to the point of accepting it as a governement policy is much more damaging than any gain's.

What minorities see in this "role model" is a message that this minority was somehow not good enough to make it without special help ....this is not inspiring to people...quite the opposite.

I think anyone who works hard can make good in this world ...without any condescending "help."
 cedar77
Joined: 7/17/2006
Msg: 84
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How do you tell if your a victim of Racism?
Posted: 3/2/2007 1:20:56 PM

I'd rather give them a hand-up than a hand out.


I agree, but you're not giving a hand up by pushing someone else down , which is exactly what affirmative action does.



The Richmond fire dept. may exclude white men
02/03/2007 1232 PM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Richmond, B.C. fire department is reportedly planning a major overhaul of its hiring policy by populating its ranks exclusively with women and minorities over the next five years.

White says the proposed new hiring policy would not fix the problem and would only create the public perception that the department is lowering physical fitness standards.

What's more, if standards were lowered, it would create resentment within other members of the force.

http://news.sympatico.msn.ctv.ca/TopStories/ContentPosting.aspx?feedname=CTV-TOPSTORIES_V2&newsitemid=CTVNews%2f20070302%2frichmond_fire_070301&showbyline=True


Sometime's it's very easy to "tell if you're a victim of racism"...it's in the newspaper's.

 face2face
Joined: 7/6/2005
Msg: 85
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How do you tell if your a victim of Racism?
Posted: 3/2/2007 4:21:08 PM
Cedar77


Sometime's it's very easy to "tell if you're a victim of racism"...it's in the newspaper's.


You are correct. This policy is in response to a very serious case of harrassment. This case is likely the proverbial “tip of the iceberg” in this workplace, and, is only part of a solution to problem.

Racism and sexism manifests in varying degrees. This case had clearly headed towards the extreme, and represents why governing bodies intervene with programs such as “affirmative action.” Unfortunately, status quo (i.e. doing absolutely nothing) would do little towards solving the problems that exist there. This isn’t saying the current suggested policy is a panacea, but it is better than inaction.

In the long run, solutions have to involve education as well as enforced minority representation; otherwise xenophobic behaviour remains an all-to-easy option when limited resources are allocated.

It's Friday Everybody!

Time for (eat, drink and xoxo Mary)
 cedar77
Joined: 7/17/2006
Msg: 86
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How do you tell if your a victim of Racism?
Posted: 3/3/2007 12:02:10 AM
You are correct. This policy is in response to a very serious case of harrassment. This case is likely the proverbial “tip of the iceberg” in this workplace, and, is only part of a solution to problem.



solutions have to involve education as well as enforced minority representation;

Ahhh ....."enforced minority representation" ....big brother is so appealing .
I prefer freedom.

I think you are probably a naive person ....or atleast duped into being negligent of recognizing establishment sponsored socialist political agenda's.
But let's see if we can get you to think for yourself a bit here....

Why would you imagine the establisment media played up this "harassment"? ....and do you think maybe there was two sides to the story?....and since there is always two sides ...did you get much coverage of the other side? ...if not ...why not???
....now try to think...put your thinking cap on....you can do it!

Now the above was a bit complex and would require some thinking outside of the box ,you'll probably not be able to get it....
so now, let's keep it very simple .....
If your family was trapped inside a burning house ....what fire crew would you like to show up on the scene? :
- An "enforced" racially and gender diverse crew .
- The best crew available.
Now think ....and if at all possible , try to answer honestly.
Then go have yourself some drink's, some pizza , and party on.......dude.
 face2face
Joined: 7/6/2005
Msg: 87
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How do you tell if your a victim of Racism?
Posted: 3/3/2007 3:13:55 AM


Ahhh ....."enforced" ....big brother is so appealing .
I prefer freedom.

Aside from those that join cults, most of us prefer freedom. The enforcement you cast dispersions upon is necessary when “free will” gets confused with “freedom to act with impunity.” To that end, it is always easy to promote Laissez-faire when the status quo is perceived to be in one’s favour.

Also, seeing the value of legislated guidance isn’t a vote against freedom; especially when the lack of this guidance propagates and continues an imbalance of power (or freedom for that matter.)

If everyone behaved altruistically, we wouldn’t need laws and law enforcement. There would be no fine or infraction for speeding since everybody would drive responsibly and within the suggested speed. It’s always a few bad apples that make it necessary to create and police the guidelines of conduct.





I think you are probably a naive person ....or atleast duped into being negligent of recognizing establishment sponsored socialist political agenda's.
But let's see if we can get you to think for yourself a bit here....

Why would you imagine the establisment media played up this "harassment"? ....and do you think maybe there was two sides to the story?....and since there is always two sides ...did you get much coverage of the other side? ...if not ...why not???
....now try to think...put your thinking cap on....you can do it!

Lol. Even a “naïve” person like myself couldn’t be fooled into believing that there is some sort of socialist political agenda behind this harassment case. It happened. There was more than just this case alone, and it is likely still happening.

So, now you are claiming that the media at large is conspiring to hide the other side of this story. The freedom that you prefer exists for the press. If there is another side, please feel free to present this to we humble neophytes of media exposure. But let me guess, socialists with a political agenda to undermine the “oppressed majority” control the media. Along with the judicial system they have conspired to obfuscate the truth and manipulate the public. The victim was actually the perpetrator of a diabolical plot to discredit the innocent.

The “two-sides to every story” argument could be presented if qualified individuals had not already judged this case. Even if it hadn’t been so, having another side doesn’t give the counterpoint equal merit. The counterpoint needs to be supported by evidence or in lieu of it, at least be reasonable. Otherwise, we could always say that 1+1= 2.5 if some “other side” merely stated that it was equal to 3.

The harassment happened.

Condescending overtones and less-than-subtle innuendo: I’m too naïve to recognize this petty form of rearguard action (which betrays a realization of unsupported argument.) The audience at large might be smarter, but you may have to resort to name-calling just to be sure. Lol.




Now the above was a bit complex and would require some thinking outside of the box ,you'll probably not be able to get it....
so now, let's keep it very simple .....
If your family was trapped inside a burning house ....what fire crew would you like to show up on the scene? :
- An "enforced" racially and gender diverse crew .
- The best crew available.
Now think ....and if at all possible , try to answer honestly.

The implication here is that the “best crew” is one that is free any restriction. On that you know we all agree, but that doesn’t automatically mean an un-enforced system of crew selection gave us the “best” crew available or was free of restriction (oh no… an honest answer that sees through the ploy!)

In evaluating proficiency of a fire fighter, the differences between able-bodied members by ethnicity and gender are probably not that great. If physical fitness is the driving factor there is probably a propensity towards any local representation of a race that has had the advantage of being selected for manual labour in the past… and that wouldn’t be you or me. If it’s strength and agility in a compact unit (very useful in tight quarters) then the advantage is to those that are short yet powerful. If it’s just who is large and powerful enough, then any race that has been exposed to a plentiful diet for several generations will yield such applicants. So, if fire departments really chose the “best” of the “best”, you may not actually like the status quo as much as you think.

However, the practices of many workplaces, probably including firefighting in the past did not look past the gender or heritage of applicants.

The purpose of the enforcement is to integrate and improve the opportunity of visible minorities. It isn’t intended to significantly degrade the overall performance of the working unit nor does it do so in most cases.

All progress comes at a cost. If the cost is setting aside a small percentage of an available occupation, the gain is weighed against that. Since the gain is creating a more level playing field, the cost is minor in comparison (unless, of course, someone is supporting the tilted field.)




Then go have yourself some drink's, some pizza , and party on.......dude.

Chicken (roasted), Whole Grain Bread, and Tea. I love homemade pizza, but even that is a little too fat-filled for my tastes. Well… I did succumb to some tapioca pudding…

Party on? Definitely... “Mary’s” asleep now.
 cedar77
Joined: 7/17/2006
Msg: 88
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!
Posted: 3/5/2007 7:20:19 PM
quadmom....

<div class="quote">Cedar- I'm not sure I understand. It seems that you are arguing against the very existence of racism
Racism exist's, it's part of human nature and it is not only white's who are racist...not by a long shot.

<div class="quote">at least against the need to have some type of programs to level the playing field.
If it takes discriminating against one group (racism) to level the playing field ....then we are in big trouble...that's not a cure for "racism" ...in fact it takes racism to a much higher level .

<div class="quote">Im not sure how I feel about that...across the board, no thanks cuz I'm smart enough to get my own job.
There is no reason everyone shouldn't be smart enough to get their own job....if they aren't smart enough then they are not qualified and shouldn't get the job....and they should work on self improvement....and the community should help them to improve their skills.

<div class="quote">
I've been discriminated against..to my face...
so have I .... so what's your point?

<div class="quote">
I absolutely think there should be some time of....representation as a checks and balances in the work place.
I don't ...I think that the job should go to the best qualified....and if you've been unjustly passed over because you're a minority, that's illlegal and you can sue...and there are plenty of support group's to help you , that is , if you're not a white male.
 face2face
Joined: 7/6/2005
Msg: 89
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Oh... yes I did.
Posted: 3/5/2007 10:33:41 PM


I didn't think you would .

…answer honestly? You are incorrect (and deliberately so it seems.) My answer was succinct and exposed the fundamental flaw in your supposition. I will reiterate this in a moment.



I really don't have the desire or patience to go point by point .

Lol . This contradicts the volume of postings in this thread under your avatar.

You need not worry that I am trying to convince you of anything. Your opinion, however indefensible, is entirely a freedom of choice.



Discrimination is alway's wrong...case closed.

Cases have to be tried with better vision than that.

The first flaw I noted was in the belief that freedom is equated to the freedom to act without consideration or fairness to others. Libertarians are always quick to rally around the right to “free will” and that any state sanction or legislation that could limit this freedom is a travesty of justice. The fact that the sanctions are created in an attempt to correct existing injustice is conveniently overlooked.

Now onto the flaw about this notion of “discrimination is always wrong”: This disregards the fact that the relationship between state and citizen is not one of peers. The government represents the collective will of the people in a democratic state. In more progressive societies this will includes the belief in social justice and fairness. The relationship, is by that reasoning hierarchical, and, by this dissolves the very claim to autonomy that Libertarians claim as a right.

In order to maintain alignment with social justice governing bodies may need to use methods and means beyond the rights of individual, the citizen. This isn’t hypocrisy. No, it is not. It is necessary in order to facilitate policy. For example, if these means were not possible, police forces would have a very difficult time in maintaining any sort of law and order.

Again, enforced hiring ratios aren’t created without reason. They are always in response to existing inequity (often very serious inequity.) These programs may not perform with 100% efficiency, but they are far better than no action at all. If there is a better way to promote fairness in the workplace, let’s hear about it (hint: Laissez-faire isn’t it.)

“Let the best candidate be hired?” That’s the whole point. Programs like affirmative action exist because that wasn’t happening. Still thinking about the Firefighting example? Let’s think about baseball, football, basketball, and boxing in the 1930’s and now (Hint: 1940’s had some form of tilted playing field.)

For these reasons, the notion of “always” is presumptuous.




Now go finish your tapioca pudding.

The pudding was quite palatable. On the other hand, the diatribes of libertarian authors like “Russell Madden” are not. In fact they are rife with half-truths and sleight of hand. They are rooted in the very flaws noted above. As well as writing, “Shattering the Glass Ceiling” (see message 36 of this thread for an excerpt of this article), he also brought forth “illustrious” articles such, as “Hatred is not a Crime.”

I leave it to the audience at large to decide just how equality-minded his rants are, and what is really being promoted.
 cedar77
Joined: 7/17/2006
Msg: 90
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Oh... yes I did.
Posted: 3/6/2007 1:22:27 AM
I really don't have the desire or patience to go point by point .


Lol . This contradicts the volume of postings in this thread under your avatar.


Ahhhh.....so the fact that I have posted so much on this topic that I'm tired of it, mean's that unless I post even more it is a "contradiction" ...hmmm ....

You seem to support more or less unlimited government ....scary.
Your post got off on a bit of a misguided tangent....but...

I will say it again ....you don't fight discrimination with more discrimination ....you don't end racism by supporting more racism .



AFFIRMATIVE ACTION--MORAL COMPENSATION OR REVERSE DISCRIMINATION?
By Chelsea Hoffman


For forty years the issue of affirmative action has been subject to a tremendous amount of debate and controversy. When President Kennedy proposed the idea of preferential treatment in 1961, the nation was in the
midst of radical changes regarding civil liberties. It was a time when the injustices imposed upon minorities were beginning to be recongnized, and people wanted to make up for the years of oppression that served as a barrier for the advancement of minorities in America. At the time, the idea was morally justified and socially appropriate. While it is still a morally commendable effort today, the system has become an attempt to atone for the sins of our country's past, and a double standard that threatens every citizen's liberties.

The first problem with affirmative action is the obvious fact that it is an attempt to end discrimination with discrimination. When a company or university discriminates against a white male for the sake of bettering the outcome of another racial group, an injustice occurs. Affirmative action is the governmental legislation of the active discrimination of one person over another—an unacceptable and dangerous double standard.

Secondly, affirmative action seeks to reconcile the injustices of the past. The horrible atrocities of the past, including slavery and the refusal to grant women and minorities the right to vote, cast an ugly shadow on the history of our nation. But affirmative action cannot erase what our ancestors did years ago. Instead of trying to reconcile the oppression of the past, we should try to lend a hand to young minorities that want to learn and be successful, but lack the resources they need to accomplish their goals.

Another issue concerning affirmative action is the stigma attached to the minorities themselves. Minorities are capable of getting the best jobs, obtaining admittance to the most prestigious schools, and being as successful as any white male has ever been. The problem occurs when people view them as inferior because of affirmative action--the attitude of "You couldn't do it on your own." These implications have a lasting, damaging effect on the mental well-being of minority students. How can anybody feel truly accomplished when a lingering
doubt about the legitimacy of his achievements exists?

Our society must learn to embrace diversity. People from a variety of different cultures and racial backgrounds have a lot to teach one another. The only way for this to happen is to maximize diversity on
college campuses and in the workplace. While affirmative action is not the best way of going about this, there are other ways of promoting diversity. Encouraging minorities from a young age to pursue their goals and obtain a good education is an important start. Assisting people from poor socio-economic backgrounds in gaining the resources and motivation they need to level the playing field with the more privileged population should be something we all actively do. Understanding and accepting diversity is not the issue in question; the issue is the best way of
going about creating a society where minorities and non-minorities alike can be judged based on merit and character, and not on the color of their skin.
 cedar77
Joined: 7/17/2006
Msg: 91
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Oh... yes I did.
Posted: 3/6/2007 1:36:25 AM

I leave it to the audience at large to decide just how equality-minded his rants are, and what is really being promoted.


^
That was a dirty thing to say.....you will sink to the lowest depths it would seem..shame on you! ....and your "tolerance" is showing.
 face2face
Joined: 7/6/2005
Msg: 92
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Tolerance
Posted: 3/6/2007 10:15:35 AM

Ahhhh.....so the fact that I have posted so much on this topic that I'm tired of it, mean's that unless I post even more it is a "contradiction" ...hmmm ....

Ahhh…. But you did post more. You answered quadmom point-by-point, hence you were not “tired of it”. This is yet another contradiction.


You seem to support more or less unlimited government ....scary.
Your post got off on a bit of a misguided tangent....but...

I support a more or less unlimited government? Where did I elude to that. Did we forget the part about the collective will, and social justice? My initial post was in response one of yours, so if it was off-topic, that would be from your initiative. However, any tangent to towards the direction of posts, whether or not one is misguided, one’s over-arching ideals on government, would be more in line with being off topic.

You have repeatedly ignored the on-topic comments such as the hierarchical relationship between government and citizen. Also, deriding the character of others (e.g. “misguided”) is far more off topic than my posts.


I will say it again ....you don't fight discrimination with more discrimination ....you don't end racism by supporting more racism .

In answer, it will be stated again that supporting a ratio is not the same as supporting racial intolerance. Such actions exist in response to far less-than-fair practices exhibited in some sectors of the workplace. This is conveniently ignored time and time again. If 1 in 10 jobs are set aside for a select group, that still leaves 9 in 10 for those not in it. This is only enforced when, left alone, 10 in 10 exclude the minority for no reason other than they are part of the minority. That is a corrective measure, and not racism.


That was a dirty thing to say.....you will sink to the lowest depths it would seem..shame on you! ....and your "tolerance" is showing.

Nice try. But I neither wrote that article (Russell Madden did), nor did I bring him into this thread by quoting his text. If you agree that that his rants are intolerant, then we at least are aligned on one thing.

If one really believes in the promotion of a society free of racial and gender intolerance, it would show through in many ways. This includes the ability to debate a topic without resorting to personal insults and selective cognition of points when others disagree with you. I believe you will take the high road by dispensing with the insults and lofty attitude and discuss this like a gentleman (or am I being naïve?)

If one is intolerant of authors who title essays “Hatred is not a Crime”, then that is a step in the right direction.
 cedar77
Joined: 7/17/2006
Msg: 93
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Tolerance
Posted: 3/6/2007 3:53:38 PM


Fools Don’t Know What They Don’t Know
There is an old Chinese proverb that counsels the following:

“He who knows not and knows not that he knows not is a fool...shun him.

He who knows not and knows that he knows not is willing...teach him.

He who knows and knows not that he knows is asleep...awaken him.

He who knows and knows that he knows is wise...follow him.”

Two recent events give me reason to reaffirm the wisdom of this advice.

The first incident involves Richard Atkinson, former president of the University of California (UC). Speaking to a group of UC San Diego students, donors and community members, my good friend Atkinson said, “It will be very difficult, if at all possible, to have diversity at elite universities, like the University of California, without the mechanism of ‘affirmative action.’”

Following his talk, Atkinson proposed three methods to increase “minority” enrollment at UC: accept more students based only on their high school grades, use its current admissions policy “more flexibly,” and focus its high school preparation programs more on blacks.

I am persuaded beyond any doubt that Atkinson and other university administrators are so convinced of the moral superiority of their objective to “increase diversity” that they are oblivious to the racially demeaning character of their method of achieving it. Moreover, they seem to know not that they are consigning generations of black children to a status of academic underachievers.

Atkinson knows that there is an academic gap between black and Latino students and Asian and white students; he knows fully well about grade inflation; and he knows that UC administrators have the “flexibility” to substitute nonacademic factors for academic accomplishment. Thus, when Atkinson offers his view that “diversity” cannot be attained in the absence of “affirmative action” (race preferences), and then proposes three methods to increase diversity, two of which amount to the diminution of academic accomplishment, he is confirming his belief that black students are incapable of competing academically alongside Asians and whites; they have to be given a preference in the form of lower standards. It is reasonable to characterize this as a racially fatalistic, if not outright racist, mentality.

The other incident came from Senator Joseph Biden (D-Delaware) as he announced his candidacy, again, for president of the United States. Commenting about the presidential candidacy of Senator Barack Obama, Biden told the New York Observer, “I mean, you got the first sort of mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy. I mean that’s a storybook, man.”

Biden’s comment was clearly racist, even more so than when Senator Trent Lott’s (R-Mississippi) praises of a 100-year-old colleague were seen to be an endorsement of racial segregation. Biden underscored the fact that “he did not know and did not know that he did not know” when he said on the “Daily Show with Jon Stewart” that “I got into trouble when I said ‘clean.’” He did not understand the totality of his comment and the fact that he got into trouble with the word “first.” Everything after that suggested that Obama was an anomaly. Blacks aren’t “mainstream,” “articulate,” “bright,” “clean” or “nice-looking,” in Biden’s universe. Obama, Biden implied, was the first one to come along having those attributes.

Then, there’s Obama himself and Jesse Jackson. Certainly, they realize the seriousness of the matter. But, instead of calling attention to Biden’s stereotypical characterization of black people, Jackson merely described the quote as an “insensitive racial remark” and urged Biden to “interpret what he meant.”

Obviously, partisan politics are largely responsible for the “he who knows and knows not that he knows” attitude of individuals such as Obama and Jackson. Biden acted as if he was merely flattering Obama, but in the course of doing so he insulted all other blacks – past and present.

Dick Atkinson and Joe Biden are not “racists” in the commonly understood sense of that word – and I don’t want them to utter another one of those meaningless public “apologies” that the public demands when someone says something foolish. For me, it is sufficient for these two incidents to simply be placed in their proper context by the media, which gave the Biden incident a shelf life of about one day, and by the rest of us.

Despite the enormous strides that have been made in the past few decades to eradicate racism, there remains a disturbing attitude that guides far too many influential public officials who establish and implement public policies relating to race in our nation. With Biden as chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee and Atkinson the president of the University of California few individuals are more influential. That is why their comments reflecting the view that it is unusual for blacks to be “bright” and “articulate” and that blacks can’t compete academically “without the mechanism of affirmative action” are so disturbing and must be confronted.

Yes, there are a lot of fools who know not and know not that they know not.
 cedar77
Joined: 7/17/2006
Msg: 94
view profile
History
Tolerance
Posted: 3/7/2007 12:25:04 PM


When it comes to dating we all discriminate. Is it prejudiced to like going out with someone who is a certain weight? Are you a face-ist (not a fascist) if you refuse to go out with someone based upon some imperfection on a person's face?

P.c. insanity is working on that one .....they call it "lookism" ....but it isn't taking hold ...(yet)...thankfully, there are limits to what people will swallow.
 T-Gro
Joined: 1/11/2007
Msg: 95
How do you tell if your a victim of Racism?
Posted: 3/12/2007 6:15:35 AM

Hey T-GRO sorry about your experienca with a shallow minded lady. I think a kind and simple no would be plenty sufficeint and if she wasn't racist would at least come back and say sorry but we can be friends and talk still. I date anybody regardless of there looks or race because when your looking for that special someone to spend your life with they better have a good personality and not black, white, or whatever. Everybody has there preferences but they don't have to be rude like she was to. I feel it's still a sad world were there is still so much racism from all sides. Bottom line I believe it was meant to be racist and to make sure you didn't contact her anymore. I hope this helps you.

... well i didnt take it to personally but was kinda shocked by her comment. I also replied to her letting her know that i thought her comment was inappropriate. She responded with a similar selfish / ignorant line.
... i can say i sometimes think of snide or hurtful comments. But i keep it to myself...

If you dont have anything nice to say, dont say anything!
(not the exact wording.. but thats what my momma used to tell me!)

Peace!

T
 purplerain66
Joined: 12/8/2006
Msg: 96
How do you tell if your a victim of Racism?
Posted: 3/12/2007 8:06:24 AM
^^^^^^^ I agree with you there 100%, couldnt of said any better^^^^^^^^^^^^
 floridaman4u
Joined: 1/9/2007
Msg: 97
view profile
History
How do you tell if your a victim of Racism?
Posted: 3/12/2007 8:25:33 AM
because someone doesnt want to date you because of your color its racism ... you asked if she dated black guys, so you opened that door ...she answered ..you didnt like the answer ,so now your complaining ..suck it up... i was called cracker once you dont see me crying....heres my question why are you trying 2 date a white girl ? are you racist toward black women ? i turn down dates with big girls does that make me a fatismist ...no we all have a perference...my advice ..,leave out the .. hey do you date black men .. and try a better pickup line ....
 lovableladywanted
Joined: 5/14/2006
Msg: 98
How do you tell if your a victim of Racism?
Posted: 5/13/2007 4:29:46 PM
I saw a tv show .. .Becker, where the black character [blind guy-can't recall his name] was dating a white blind lady. Than when she found out he was black she broke up . The tv show made her out to be a racist and I think its wrong . Don't be quick to judge me , I think its perfectly cool to date whatever race you want ,its called preferences . That said I do not think one is a racist because they choose to not date certain other races or even the same race if thats the case .
 EC22
Joined: 4/25/2007
Msg: 99
How do you tell if your a victim of Racism?
Posted: 5/13/2007 5:20:19 PM
"Reverse Discrimination" does happen, but "regular racism" still occurs way more often. Some colleges/jobs have outreach programs to find qualified blacks such as job/school fairs in mostly black areas or ads in radio stations that a lot of blacks listen to. These outreach programs don't involve quotas or lower standards. Qualified blacks are still rejected from apartments and bank loans because of race. I saw a report where people with "white names" on their resume such as Jim O'Brien are more likely to get job interviews than people with "black" names on their resume such as Jamal Williams even if the black person was slightly more qualified. The person who stated that white women benefitted from affirmative action way more than any other group is correct.
 junipermoon
Joined: 3/1/2006
Msg: 100
view profile
History
How do you tell if your a victim of Racism?
Posted: 5/26/2007 8:06:09 AM

no aliens from other planets


damn...and i had such high hopes!
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