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Joined: 1/15/2007
Msg: 3
RYAN SMYTH and the OILERSPage 2 of 3    (1, 2, 3)
To all the people that think they are hockey experts and say "get over it... it's a business"

I have refrained from saying anything till now but , now I can't resist.

To all the people that call Ryan Smyth fans "bandwaggon jumper offers or not real fans"

I have refrained from saying anything till now but , now I can't resist.
To all the other people that don't really care about hockey or the Oilers in general... well... I have little to say to you other than, Find another thread to post in.

It isn't just a business... if it were... how often do you cheer on the bank that holds your money and earns record profits every year? do you cheer "YAY! TD! YAY CIBC!"ETC... no it isnt a business to fans or the owners...

Do you honestly think the Edmonton Investors Groups looks at owning the Oilers as a sound business investment? Has ANY hockey team ever shown a net profit in the last 20 years?

To call the people that are angry at the Oilers "not real fans" Just because 'Ryan isnt the team... etc... the oil will continue etc...'
CRAP! REAL fans care about not only the team , but also the players.
Thats like saying hey... "I'm sorry your son died but, I still like your grandfather."

A business my azz... maybe to some but those people aren't fans.

Funny how people like to play up the emotion involved in the game when it suits them but when crap happens "it's just a business"

If it is just a business and the Oilers have given up on making it to the playoffs... I would think all future tickets should be sold for about $20.. seeing as how they are pretty much just wasted games, no?
 Plain Ole Black and White
Joined: 9/28/2006
Msg: 4
Posted: 3/1/2007 8:28:22 AM
The Oilers are a disease. Not easy for an EX-fan to admit, but it isn't rocket science. Done more to turn hockey form a sport to a business than all the other teams combined. Gretz alone, was the first 7 figure salary. Been in the "business" of selling the teams BACKBONE for several years now. Smyth's just another chapter. We play Minnesota tonight. GO WILD !!!
 Plain Ole Black and White
Joined: 9/28/2006
Msg: 5
Posted: 3/3/2007 6:24:02 AM
And Waynejo, I think Bobby Hull was actually the first 7 figure salary hockey player.

If you're talking about 1972, the deal you're referring to was with Winnipeg, still an NHL rival at the time, and the 1 million dollar figure was for a ten year deal, not 1 season. I would have to admit though, that some of the very first cracks of light promising BIG MONEY were notably influenced when he did finally leave Chicago and join the Winnipeg Jets. Don't remember if the million dollar "signing bonus" offered to him earlier, was in place when he finally did sign with the Jets.
Joined: 9/10/2006
Msg: 6
Posted: 3/4/2007 1:10:55 PM
Chin up Oilers fans...even if your team as given up on this season. Canuck fans had to watch as Linden was traded to the Islanders. I any one player bleeds a teams colors it was Linden and will always be Linden. He will be Captain Canuck for ever...

He came back to us and if Smyth is really the heart of the Oilers he will be back next year...if its about cashing in then he is gone and was not the player oilers fans think he is. How can money keep you from laying where your heat belongs? How rich do you need to be?
Joined: 7/15/2006
Msg: 12
Posted: 3/29/2007 8:37:29 AM
Ryan Smyth would not have been the deciding factor in all these losses the Oilers have suffered lately. The fact 10 of their regular line up guys are out with injuries is the dictating factor here. One man does not make a team. Ryan Smyth was not that close to closing a deal with the Oilers - he said so himself. Good for Kevin Lowe! Instead of being left holding the bag in July when Smyth became an unrestricted free agent, he got a couple decent players and a first round draft pick. Smyth is doing alright with the Islanders but he hasn't been lighting it up out there either.
Joined: 7/15/2006
Msg: 14
Posted: 3/29/2007 9:33:55 AM
Pronger made his own bed and has suffered the consequences. Peca never wanted to be in Edmonton in the first place and made no bones about it. Their biased opinions should not be instrumental in making decisions like that.
Kevin Lowe can spend his money a lot better than over paying Ryan Smyth. He has before and I have every confidence he will make this work for him.
Negotiations are just that, negotiations and if one side is not willing to negotiate, what's the point?
Joined: 7/15/2006
Msg: 17
Posted: 3/29/2007 1:12:02 PM
Morale, loyalty and trust are important parts of any team but I think the team suffered equally because of the injuries. 10 guys out of the regular line up. Stoll still hasn't fully recovered from his concussion - it may have been a career ending one - God forbid! I think the team's spirit was more battered by the combination than any one event. It's convenient to blame Kevin Lowe for all of this but you really can't.
Secondly, player negotiations cannot become hostage situations. The players are equally responsible to negotiate.
As for the salary cap issues, can Edmonton afford a $48M cap? Is it going to be out of their reach? How much higher is this cap going to go before the small market teams are back into the situation they were in before the lock out?
Edmonton's biggest drawback is the city itself. Players love playing here because of the fan base but they don't necessarily like living here. To those of us who call Edmonton home, we can't see why but there is winter, winter and more winter; Edmonton is the northern most city in the whole league. Families see less of the player husbands and fathers because of all the travelling Edmonton has to do.
Personally I think Edmonton is a wonderful city with small town feeling and lots to do but it's not like shopping in NYC or LA or living in Phoenix or Florida.
Joined: 3/27/2007
Msg: 19
Posted: 3/31/2007 4:31:22 PM
Ryan is a true heart and soul Oiler. This was a major blow to the moral of the team.

Come back Ryan, i'll apply for a bank loan to cover the difference, lol.
Joined: 7/15/2006
Msg: 20
Posted: 4/2/2007 9:30:52 AM
You're wasting your money! I'm excited to see what Kevin Lowe is going to do this off season. I don't think fans will be disappointed. But they need new coaching - bottom line.
Joined: 1/9/2007
Msg: 21
Posted: 4/2/2007 11:04:46 AM
i don't think MacT is such a bad caoch...i watched all the sports blogs when captain canada got stupid leafs could have had him about one year into his career when he was then apparently available

you guys alre loyal fans to your team...the first few days of the sports blogs everyone wanted lowe's head...but as that week progressed slowly i watched the majority rule in favor of the team. ''..i lived out there many years ago,when your messier and gretzky teams were still in their infancy stage, and nothing personal, but i would rather play in a much larger city...i don't know all the facts behind the pronger's wife thing, but i believe she was from a bigger city, maybe st. louis, so when you guys start to go OILer crazy, like last year, which you have every right to do, i think the walls must close right in on a person if they prefer a lower profile..

you guy's will rebound...the worm turns every year in this nhl...every year it seems now it's just who's hot at the right time...the longer reigning periods of the 60's leafs,
habs (a couple of times 50's and 70's), the short run the braod street bullies had, the islanders, the oilers, and almost the pens... those days seem a distant memory...

hang tuff out there...your oilers will climb back up when the worm turns your way once's have proven time and time again, that one player can maybe lead a team' charge, but it's a team thing winning championships

i built sales teams for a living and everything has to go right, or, as many things as possible have to go right,to make it to the mountaintop...everyone has to be pulling in the same direction, and each one has to be totally dedicated to the cause....and what's even harder than getting to the top, is staying there, or even trying to get back there years later...

when i watched smitty chuck up a mouthful of teeth and come back the next period, this guy really plays with his heart on his sleeve, but i guess with one eye on the wallet...

i know the oilers will be better next year...don't feel so looks like the Canes aren't going back this year either:

...who knows, maybe he wanted out in reality, but hitchhiked off the gretzky tears, since the pronger and peca approach doesn't seem to wash well with oil
Joined: 1/29/2007
Msg: 23
Posted: 4/6/2007 5:25:20 AM
i haven't quite looked in to it extensively as mr beddow here has, but i do agree with him on most points. we all know how the "rental" market goes nowadays. it's my belief that he'll be heading back to edmonton, especially if the islanders miss the post season this year. and given that he does come back, you'll be seeing a strong edmonton team next (should the goal tending miraculously strengthen up).

and it's kind of hard to make a judgment call with pronger. growing up in ontario, maybe he was just sick of the cold? hell, i wouldn't mind to have my place of residence, as we as my work place, in california.
Joined: 1/9/2007
Msg: 24
Posted: 4/6/2007 8:42:54 AM

growing up in ontario, maybe he was just sick of the cold

he's from dryden which can get just as cold as edmonton...and the winter in dryden goes about just as long as's about a 2 maybe 3 hour drive to winnipeg strait west from's not like he was riased down around Toronto...that takes, let me see if i can remember our old road trips, hmmm 17 hours from dryden to sudbury and then 4 hours straight south to toronto..

.take it for truth, it's almost like two different provinces somewhere starting around the parry sound/muskoka area
Joined: 1/29/2007
Msg: 25
Posted: 4/6/2007 2:13:41 PM
I was implying growing up in Ontario, and then playing in Edmonton, those two combined, could possibly be what drove him away. It was supposed to be a joke.
Joined: 1/9/2007
Msg: 26
Posted: 4/6/2007 2:32:25 PM
sorry man i missed

just a hunch, and i don't want to have a big bunch of anti-american sentiment for saying it, but, it's just a guess mind you, i think if pronger was single, or was married to a little hometown girl from dryden or something like dryden, he might still be in oil country today. His wife was from a big metropolis, not astronomically big...(i still think she's from St. Loo but i could be wrong on that), like gretz's wife (gaga the trade to LA in the late 80's), but not being from up canada way, she probably had one edmonton winter, and said screw can stay if you like, but, i'm outta here

just a guess mind you
Joined: 1/29/2007
Msg: 27
Posted: 4/7/2007 2:46:08 AM
No sweat.. it's not like the internet really conveys sarcasm too well

I honestly wouldn't doubt your theory.. it's not like you see Beckham playing for Toronto FC in the MLS right?
 Plain Ole Black and White
Joined: 9/28/2006
Msg: 28
Crummy anniversary
Posted: 2/26/2008 9:20:01 PM
And nary a move today
Nice win tonight though at least.
 prairie pundit
Joined: 6/18/2007
Msg: 29
Crummy anniversary
Posted: 2/27/2008 10:04:38 AM
"And nary a move today"

It begs the question as to whether KL has been blacklisted by other GMs. I think the only move he has made with another team since the whole Penner thing went down was the Glencross for Tarnstrom blockbuster.
Here's the GM of a team that starts the season with essentially 8 rookies in the line-up and he doesn't make a single move all season long to gain some experience in the dressing room, if nothing else?

Could be due to the fact that he also started the season virtually tapped out on the salary cap, despite having those 8 rookies in the line-up. How the heck can a team have 40% rookies and still be tapped out on the cap, without having one bonafide 30 goal scorer?
I bet Darryl Katz is asking the same question.
Pack your bags KL, your usefulness as a GM has expired.
Joined: 1/9/2007
Msg: 30
Crummy anniversary
Posted: 2/27/2008 9:36:39 PM
"""...It begs the question as to whether KL has been blacklisted by other GMs...."""

I'm not a big Kevin Lowe fan. Never have been and doubt i ever will be. But it's awfully hard to figure out what or where a club needs improvement with all the injuries that clubs had this year.

I don't think the league's blackballed the guy. Sounds like there were no real takers for Roloson, which isn't surprising in light of his salary. Whether Lowe did or didn't overpay for Penner, regardless, I think that acquisition in the long run really has to be questioned. He's a good kid but to pay him 4+ million right off the hop and for the next five years, and give up your first three picks this year, in what is regarded as one of the strongest deepest drafts in many years just doesn't add up to a 20 goal, 20 assist guy.

But, having said that, with a full and healthy roster and some consistency in the line rolling, Penner could easily be a perennial 35 goal a year guy. He's still got some upside and could be as valuable as Getzlaff is to the Ducks.

Looking at your salary structure, I don't see 4 million for two goalies. I see 6 million for 5 goalies. i also see about 20 million dollars sitting on Injured Reserve. i wouldn't have bothered chasing Souray for all that money when he had a long history of shoulder problems. He says it should be as good as new come next season, but basically Oilers pissed nearly 5 and a half million out the window on this guy this year which could have equated to 2 half decent defencemen like Pitkanen turned out to be for you.

It was a very safe bet that he would blow out that shoulder again and that's why Gainey and the habs weren't interested in going back there. Plus guys like Spazza made Souray look like an old man in cement shoes back there. He looked bad a lot of nights but it was overlooked when he let that big shot go off the PP. He was a positive plus minus until the lockout, and then he went minus 39 the next two years, and i think most of us know by now what that means in this new NHL. i just don't know about the wisdom of paying one guy all that dough just to be a PP specialist. Money's too hard to stretch in this new era.

Your roster looks promising considering all the injuries. You're going to have 8 guys hit 30 points, and with healthy Pisani (played 38 games), Sanderson (37 games), Torres (32 games), Pitkanen (46 games), Souray and Moreau (a couple of dozen games played each between them) your club healthy would have had maybe a dozen guys over 30 points spread throughout your lineup. I like seeing that. That becomes a tough club to beat.

It's real hard to get any consistency to the flow and consistency of any team when you're shuttling bodies in and out of the lineup. 18 out of 49 guys there are either RFA's or UFA's totalling about 18 million dollars, so whoever is the GM this summer has a lot of options here.

Sitting and judging Kevin Lowe like your new owner probably will, I'd really like to know why a GM is paying an older Dman 5.4 mill to be little more than a power play specialist for the next half a decade. And I'd want to know if Penner was worth not only the money, but all those draft picks. I don't know. I don't see a lot of players around the league being moved for a clubs first three draft picks. Not unless that player's going to get you over the hump to the Cup, and i don't see that in Penner anywhere near just yet. I realize you get Anaheim's picks in return.

Plus, it's seriously doubtful that the hockey gods are going to hammer your club with that many injuries three years in a row. i hate using injuries as an excuse but when i look up and down your roster and the number of injuries you got and are still getting, it's a wonder Mactavish hasn't checked himself into the nuthouse.

And you never know what could happen to your little goalie there. He could pull a groin in training camp and then suddenly everyone's saying ten hail mary's for hanging onto Rolly. He comes from good stock him. I used to know a number of members of his family as clients back in the late 80's when i lived down near London.

What probably started out as a club with reasonable expectations to make the playoffs, suddenly took a left hand turn there around November when you lost all your starting defencmen. No club can compete nightly with that disadvantage. Then as they all filter back into the lineup you have to get in synch. Meanwhile that frantic Western conference ate up some ground on you's and you never really got it back. Apart from that, you'd be right in the middle of things which isn't too bad all things considered losing Smyth and Smith over the last year.

Lowe probably made a mistake with Sheldon, and maybe with Penner, but Oiler's are a pretty resilient bunch considering so very few, as you call them, 'stars' want to come and play there. Sheldon you're stuck with till he's nearly 38, so i'm wondering what kind of shape he'll be in by then. So on the one hand Lowe has to try and go with a team concept of ten or 12 guys ringing up 30 or more points, but also, instead of Lowe getting hometown discounts because of the locale, he's handicapped with having to give hometown premiums to attract bigger names.

This guy Katz should let him and Mactavish keep their jobs one more year. Had Mactavish got this club into the playoffs this year with all these injuries, he would have been a strong candidate for coach of the year. I can't ever remember seeing that many of a clubs defenceman go out all at once like they did back in November. They didn't really even get a chance to mesh. Red Wings are going thru the same thing right now with 4 d-men out and they can't buy a win right now. They're missing 4 d-men and they've gone 1-7-2 over the last couple of weeks. So Mactavish and the Oilers have hung tough this year all things considered.

If and when your club gets and stays healthy, i think you'll be pretty happy with most of what you've got there. Just my opinion.
 prairie pundit
Joined: 6/18/2007
Msg: 31
Crummy anniversary
Posted: 2/27/2008 10:22:18 PM
Idunno sly, I'm thinking that if your club gets decimated with injuries the way the Oilers were this season, you have no choice but to get on the blower and try to fix the problem. If KL really didn't pick up the phone all year, then he's even worse than I give him credit for being. From the outside it appears that KL just sat back and watched as the injuries mounted, but there's no way he would have done that. That's why I think he was on the phone, but was not getting anyone to do business with.

As for MacTavish, I think he did a great job this year. Again, he was asked to guide a team loaded with raw rookies. It was exactly the kind of line-up I would have accepted and expected from the Oilers in the pre-salary cap days. But now there's absolutely no excuse to field such an inexperenced team.
Yes, the likes of Gagner, Cogliano, Gilbert, Nilsson, Brodziak. etc. all had decent years, considering their lack of experience, but honestly, how can you field a team with that much inexperience and expect to be competitive? You can't "expect" it. It could happen, as it did to a certain extent with the Oilers this season, but for any team to say "we're going to start the season with 8 rookies in our line-up and still be in the thick of things in March" is, by and large, unrealistic.
Had KL fielded this exact team six years ago he would be blaming the state of the league for the line-up. Oiler fans know that. We have lived with listening to it pretty much every season since about 1991.

Six years ago KL was justified in blaming the state of the league. He only has himself to blame now.
Joined: 1/9/2007
Msg: 32
Crummy anniversary
Posted: 2/28/2008 7:42:34 AM
You might be right. A lot of what we see and hear is pretty much different from what is actually said. I mean Murray this morning is sayng Paddock was extremely respectful of the Sens hockey club during yesterdays dismissal interview. If he was respectful of that club, it was the first time all year that's for sure..

You look at a guy like Bobbie Clarke back in the summer saying Lowe had every right to do what he did, but I'm wondering maybe if some GM's around the league scratched their head on the Vanek thing. Lowe's in a small market and so is Buffalo so he should comprehend that he put the Sabres over a barrel forcing the huge contract on Vanek, which may in turn have taken up a lot of the projected budget to unsuccessfully sign Campbell this week.

I get your point about pre and post cap eras. That first year post-cap was pretty exciting for Oiler fans. But Souray couldn't shine Pronger's shoes if Lowe thought he was trying to replace one stud for another. Not even in the same class and Lowe should know that being an old Dman himself.

Lowe is sticking to his story though that he had discussions with 28 other clubs (he made a point to note 28, not 29 lol). Nonis couldn't pull the trigger on anything substantial either and I doubt he's pissed anyone off around the league...and i also doubt he was happy standing pat with his hockey club. Lowe actually sounded like he was Ok with standing pat, which could be a bit of a red flag going with your thoughts on bolstering a banged up hockey club.

The injuries have decimated that hockey club in spite of a lot of changes made by Lowe in the last year. Even though we never like to let injuries be an excuse, the truth is that injuries have ended up costing coaches and managers their jobs in the past. He could have picked up Recchi for that experience in the dressing room you mentioned. He also could have picked up Dominick Moore off of waivers in january. I wasn't all that thrilled when we got him, but he's actually turned out to be a nice get. He's solid defensivley, skates fast, forechecks well and wins a lot of draws.

Maybe you do need a stronger personality, or at least a fresh start in the GM position in order to attract players. I mean turn on TSN any night and you get clowns like Milbury and Ferguson on there pretending they have all the answers and we know how they perform once they get behind the wheel. Those two clowns set their franchises back decades. If Ferguson had a clue he would have bolstered our own blueline when Mccabe went down for 8 weeks with the broken hand. That stretch without McCabe pretty much cooked JFJ's goose, so maybe Lowe does deserve the same fate.

I wonder though if a new GM is going to send Mactavish packing. That would be Ok from my viewpoint. I'd like to see him behind the Leafs bench. He's got the right personality to deal with the facked up media that never let up on this hockey club, and he just knows so much about the NHL that he would make Maurice look like the Marlie coach that he really is..

Maybe old Johnny Muckler? He likes an up-tempo game and that's what the Oilers like to play on that good ice out there.
 prairie pundit
Joined: 6/18/2007
Msg: 33
Crummy anniversary
Posted: 2/28/2008 9:09:06 AM
Recchi would have been a great addition to the Oilers, but Lowe didn't have a shot at him. Atlanta was behind the Oilers in the standings at that time. I still believe that had Atlanta passed on him, Lowe would have grabbed him.
As for Nonis, I was laughing Tuesday when I saw the lack of action there. I'm sure The Team 1040 was gtting inundated with calls demanding his head on a swivel. But Nonis has a history of being quiet at the trade deadline.
I could see Muck being offered the job in Edmonton and if so, I think MacT's job would be safe.

I'll tell you one guy I'd like to see coaching in the NHL some day is Ryan McGill. After being forced to retire early (eye injury) he got into coaching right away and led the Kootenay Ice to the Memorial Cup. He did very well with the Hartford Wolf Pack and is now in Quad City (Calgary's farm team). He really has a head for the game.
 Plain Ole Black and White
Joined: 9/28/2006
Msg: 34
Crummy news
Posted: 3/3/2008 9:46:30 AM
Lousy to hear about Smitty's misfortune. even if he does wear the wrong jersey nowadays
On the bright side, the Oilers can use all the help they can get about now, and not having to face him falls into that category
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