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Show ALL Forums  > Religion  > Science & Astrology, You aren't the sign you think you are :)      Home login  
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 Nothings_shocking
Joined: 2/24/2007
Msg: 5
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Science & Astrology, You aren't the sign you think you are :)Page 3 of 4    (1, 2, 3, 4)
Madfiddler: Oh and thanks for the Ummmm... shall we say spell checkin'. My fingers slip sometimes!
 AwP
Joined: 12/31/2006
Msg: 6
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Science & Astrology, You aren't the sign you think you are :)
Posted: 3/8/2007 1:43:15 AM
I always wondered about that. I don't really believe in astrology, but some of the stuff seems accurate enough to make me go "hmmm". I actually seem to fit the gemini stereotype a bit, but not at all the taurus stereotype, which according to this information I actually am.
 AwP
Joined: 12/31/2006
Msg: 7
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Science & Astrology, You aren't the sign you think you are :)
Posted: 3/8/2007 11:25:46 AM
Then why don't I think the broad statements of taurus apply to me nearly as well? I understand what you're saying, and that's part of the reason I don't believe in it, but gemini DOES fit better then taurus.
 quietstorm8
Joined: 10/22/2006
Msg: 8
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Science & Astrology, You aren't the sign you think you are :)
Posted: 3/11/2007 7:17:44 AM
not only what you say is possible....but we have
to keep in mind humans are capable of consciously evolving into

anything our little hearts desire.....
so while astrology certainly has much value as a guide post we have to always
remember we're beings without limitations......defining
who we are by signs or any other means sets up limitations.
 rockondon
Joined: 2/21/2007
Msg: 9
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Science & Astrology, You aren't the sign you think you are :)
Posted: 3/11/2007 2:46:24 PM
I wonder what its like to believe that balls of gas light years away encapsulate the meaning of you or control your destiny.
 Castaline
Joined: 11/21/2006
Msg: 10
Science & Astrology, You aren't the sign you think you are :)
Posted: 3/12/2007 9:20:11 PM
My birthday is the 13 of March

I was a Pisces before I read this thread, and even now that the heavens have shifted, I am still a Pisces!
 Flyers_Phan
Joined: 1/16/2005
Msg: 11
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Science & Astrology, You aren't the sign you think you are :)
Posted: 3/21/2007 10:59:13 PM
if the earth isn't a sphere, what is it?
 tuppencehapenny
Joined: 3/29/2007
Msg: 12
Science & Astrology, You aren't the sign you think you are :)
Posted: 4/5/2007 5:59:22 PM
I found it liberating when I found out about Siderial Astrology about 10 years ago. I went from being a boring old Taurus - plodding, dependable etc to being an exciting Aries - an initiator,daring etc. When I tell people I used to be Taurus and am now Aries there is usually a short silence then a quizzical look. If they're interested it's handy to be able to describe the Precession of the Equinoxes in about 20 words or their eyes start glazing over.
Thanks for your detailed explanations guys. Well elucidated.
The reason (in spite of the reality of Siderial Astrology) that many people relate to their starsigns under the Tropical method is that it is often in fact their ascendant (the constellation on the eastern horizon when you were born.) The ascendant is almost as if not more important that your Star or Sun sign. As many people are born near sunrise this is why they also relate to their Sun sign as defined by Tropical Astrology.
The reason I say the ascendant may be more important than the star sign is that when you were born the constellation which is your star sign is actually being blocked by the sun ie the sun is directly in front of it. There is a theory that the star sign is the incomplete part of your personality. Any comments?
 tuppencehapenny
Joined: 3/29/2007
Msg: 13
Science & Astrology, You aren't the sign you think you are :)
Posted: 4/5/2007 6:05:15 PM
Mad Fiddler, do the dates so kindly provided by Atypical in Texas correspond to the discrepency of 24 degrees described by yourself?
I had previously thought it was a bit less than 24 degs.
Also, has anyone ever been able to work out the exact date the Age of Aquarius began or will begin or is it impossible to make an accurate calculation?
 fitman2005
Joined: 8/18/2005
Msg: 14
Science & Astrology, You aren't the sign you think you are :)
Posted: 4/6/2007 4:17:19 AM

In fact, thanks to a scientific occurrence called the Precession of the Equinoxes, we are all actually one sign removed from our actual sign.





-this would explain some personality disorders..heh heh

-hey you get offa my sign!!
 tuppencehapenny
Joined: 3/29/2007
Msg: 15
Science & Astrology, You aren't the sign you think you are :)
Posted: 4/6/2007 4:23:08 AM
Yeah Starpoet I know we started talking about it in the 60's and obviously it's not going to go from the Piscean Age to the Aquarian age overnight but there must be some way of calculating it a bit more precisely.
 whitegold765
Joined: 12/26/2007
Msg: 16
Science & Astrology, You aren't the sign you think you are :)
Posted: 5/5/2008 10:38:14 AM
I think the fact that this is in the religion section rather than the science pretty much says everything that needs to be said. Is there a section for "Utter Bunk"?



lol... Until science can show me emotions and reasonability in a bottle, I do not have much faith in science... The thing is, science condemns without proof, while psychology prooves one needs to be condemned... Next?

Wow... Truly terrifying.
 scorpiomover
Joined: 4/19/2007
Msg: 17
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Science & Astrology, You aren't the sign you think you are :)
Posted: 5/5/2008 4:06:26 PM
RE msg 1 by atypical_in_texas (the OP):
So, for those of you that take stock in astrology or have had a passing interest in Astrology over the course of your life, let me share with you the best kept secret that's not a secret. Whatever Zodiac sign you've been thinking you were born under all your life……it's wrong. In fact, thanks to a scientific occurrence called the Precession of the Equinoxes, we are all actually one sign removed from our actual sign.
This is what passes for a secret amongst astronomers? This is common knowledge in professional astrological circles. Heck, I just used to work on a phone line, giving readings for entertainment purposes, and everyone knew it, and this was among people who mostly just took the job for some part-time evening work. Let me let YOU in on the best kept secret that's not a secret. Whatever is the latest astronomical discovery, people who take astrology seriously have read about it, or heard about it from other astrologers.

There are some people who claim to know about astrology, and don't know much about what goes on, I will definitely agree with that. But 99% of them have never used an ephemeris, and if they did make up a natal chart for someone, they got one off the internet. Really not good people to get a chart from, especially when you can read it yourself, and do a better job of it.

I don't hold the with the precession thing myself, because I'm such a typical Scorpio, it beggars belief, and it fits my observations of most people pretty well. But I don't just use books to understand people. I use real life as my testing ground. If it is in real life, and it's not in the books, then IMHO those books weren't written very well. But who writes books that well nowadays, anyway?

RE msg 4 by atypical_in_texas (the OP):
Man, you'd be surprised how much stock even the casual person on the street puts into their horoscope or about what magazines say about their personality based off their Zodiac.
I totally agree. But have you seen how many people read their horoscope in the local newspaper, and imagine it was written just for them, when it was written for at least 5 million people in the UK alone, and about 25 million in the USA? This reminds me of when I was working for that phone line I mentioned earlier. About 10% of the callers wanted a genuine reading. 85% were women whose husbands left them, and just wanted to hear that he was coming back. The other 5% were young guys who wanted to know what their girlfriend looked like. Yet the company I worked for charged $1 a minute, and I would regularly keep these people on for 30 minutes. That's $30, just to hear whatever you wanted to be true, for 9 out of 10 people in the UK. The USA callers were far worse. I switched to a line that took callers for the USA for a few months. They were women who wanted to know if their boyfriend was cheating on them, and they had at least 1 boyfriend on the side, often 2, sometimes more. I kid you not.

This experience taught me more about people's actual views on dating that almost anything else. Most people use astrology to reassure themselves of what they believed all along. The ones who actually take it seriously, take it with a pinch of salt. Something to bear in mind, just in case it might be true, but nothing more than that.

I've mentioned this to some random people and am usually greeted with some hostility at presenting the very idea that they aren't what they've been reading about for years. Try it for yourself! I never thought people would be so disappointed at learning their true birth sign. I feel like the destroyer of worlds sometimes so I don't bother mentioning it anymore. :)
Good idea. As I put earlier, 90% of people are only interested in hearing what they want to believe, anyway. You would have the same reaction if you told them that their sign isn't quite what it is painted out to be by the popular media, like that Pisces only seem to be dreamy as a way of hiding how clued-up they really are, or how Scorpios are far more obsessed with the afterlife than they are ever obsessed about sex, or how at least one book on astrology from the 1950s pointed out how many doctors were Scorpios, because it involves death, insight, and extremes of effort, all Scorpio traits.

I've never believed in Astrology and I don't think many people do, however I've learned a great deal of the population seems to really hang on to the romance of the idea and it's not to be trifled with.
That is because 90% of people only want to hear what they want to believe is true. That is what popular romance is all about. Real romance is totally unromantic to most people. My sister was overjoyed when she went over to one of her boyfriend's house, opened the fridge, and found a big bag of carrots in there, all because she casually mentioned to him that she liked carrots the other week. She raved on about that all the time, long after she broke up with him. That is the sort of thing women never seem to forget. But you'll never see that in a Hollywood film, because it is just not exciting enough for an audience.

RE msg 34 by CharlesEdm:
Geeze thats a lot of nonsence to memorize, tell me where do Zodiac signs appear as a diagnostic tool in legitimate psychology.
Well, I'm sure they aren't mentioned in Popular Psychology, or whatever psychologists read. But I did read a book about astrology that quoted Jung as saying that a proper astrological birth chart shaved 2 full years off the psychotherapeutic process for his treatment of patients. You don't have to trust Jung. After all, he is only the guy to come with the basis of the MBTI types that POF uses and businesses use, for some daft reason. But hey, corporations will spend money on anything. MacDonalds spent something like $20 million on designing a chair that people would naturally find uncomfortable after 20 minutes. Crazy. It works. But still crazy, eh?

RE msg 44 by CharlesEdm:

Gosh; I remember a time when Psychiatrists and Doctors laughed at Freud and Jung, for promoting outlandish ideas.
Ummm they still do.
I would not be apt to quote the views of psychologists and psychiatrists of the modern day, because I've known a lot of people who've been through the mental health system. Either they are drugged up enough to be continually sedated, or they are extremely dissatisfied with how they are treated. Their families almost always don't know what to do, so they have often given up their hands in despair. The one good thing you can say about the mental health system in the UK, is that it is so confusing, that you have to get very clued-up about life, and how to deal with all sorts of people, just to make it through the system and come out sane the other end.
 Phoebus2k9
Joined: 3/15/2008
Msg: 18
Science & Astrology, You aren't the sign you think you are :)
Posted: 5/7/2008 6:20:30 AM
Hello,

Im someone who studies astrology and from what i have come to know is this is just the sun sign you all are referring to. There are alot more info in your chart that make up who you are.. for example. You might be a Gemini but dont feel like you fit the description at all well maybe a lil. This may be for the fact that y0u have Leo in your chart in your Mercury or you might have Libra in your Mars

Each planet has its own sign and how it effects you

Moon = your emotional side
Mercury = your mental side how you think
Mars = your drive in life...work..etc...
Venus = your romantic side or how you relate to ppl

and etc...each one of those planets have a sign it could be all of one sign or scatter the combination is endless....

but this is what makes you all unique....the more extreme kinda ppl usualy have alot of one sign in all the planets ...like Bruce Lee had alot of Scorpio and fires signs

anyways
 Ravenstar66
Joined: 8/27/2007
Msg: 19
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Science & Astrology, You aren't the sign you think you are :)
Posted: 5/8/2008 9:04:12 AM
That kind of makes sense, because I am far too cerebral and detached for my Pisces sun... Aquarius makes more sense as I am basically an "agape" person as opposed to an "eros".

Does this change just the sun sign or does it affect the planetary positions also?

Do I have to completely redo my chart?
 Phoebus2k9
Joined: 3/15/2008
Msg: 20
Science & Astrology, You aren't the sign you think you are :)
Posted: 5/9/2008 9:12:18 AM
Yes it does effect your Sun sign but it all depends on how much the other sign is influencing it. I mean you could be Taurus but there is alot of Cancer in your chart which would effect you in a way that would make you seem to be more of a Cancer then Taurus even thoe you would still hold some of the traits of Taurus. It would have to when you were born, where, and what time ? The time is very important. This info alone would explain to you why might not follow your sun sign

If you seem to be alot like alot of people which would tell me your signs are spread out, meaning you have a different sign in each planet.

Hope this sheds some light on that.
 Phoebus2k9
Joined: 3/15/2008
Msg: 21
Science & Astrology, You aren't the sign you think you are :)
Posted: 5/12/2008 6:06:20 AM
Not all 12 signs but it all could be say taurus and mostly gemini with one libra. Or it could be Gemin sun and taurus moon and aries mercury and taurus Venus and Gemini mars. The mix could be something like Scorpio SUn and SCorpio moon, and aries mercury and tarus venus and scorpio mars etc....this can usually make a more intense kinda person because of the many scorpios in the chart. if it is more spread out with the signs can usualy mean they have a good spread of different signs in the chart.
 Phoebus2k9
Joined: 3/15/2008
Msg: 22
Science & Astrology, You aren't the sign you think you are :)
Posted: 5/13/2008 8:08:29 PM
No he is a virgo, makes him analyize things way to much and very skeptical because of it but if he researched it he would know astrology is older then the bible....
 Phoebus2k9
Joined: 3/15/2008
Msg: 23
Science & Astrology, You aren't the sign you think you are :)
Posted: 5/16/2008 6:57:20 AM
Truth works for me as wel, i would really like to say, that side of you is what makes you worry so much as well, those kinda things will make your stomach have problems as well as your bowels.


So if you read alot of astrology and done as many charts as i have done then you would know that doing your chart from the birthdate , year ,city born and time born. You could get alot of info about ones self from that alone but you would know quite alot about people and why they are the way they are.

I have done well over 400 charts for ppl and readings and only the ones who claimed i was wrong were the scoprios or the ones who had it in their chart with a strong influence. The reason being is that they are secretive kinda ppl so they wouldnt want you to have that kinda info lol..
 Phoebus2k9
Joined: 3/15/2008
Msg: 24
Science & Astrology, You aren't the sign you think you are :)
Posted: 5/20/2008 7:45:06 AM
So Ravenstar66

how did you do your chart b4 ?




.............
 Vancer
Joined: 10/29/2006
Msg: 25
Science & Astrology, You aren't the sign you think you are :)
Posted: 9/6/2009 10:57:00 PM
The dates OP lists, seem to be different than what other sources have listed.
Sites say my sidereal zodiac is also Aries, even though the sun was in Pisces when I was born.
What a confusing mess it all is!

I will take both signs!

*flies off into the sunset... and hits the backdrop*
 susan_cd
Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 26
Science & Astrology, You aren't the sign you think you are :)
Posted: 7/1/2010 9:08:21 PM
Science & astrology?

What exactly does astrology have to do with science?

Yes, the observation of positions & motion of heavenly bodies can be scientific, but when I ask what astrology has to do with science I mean the claims that the postions of such bodies at our birth, & their current postion can effect you.
 passionteman
Joined: 3/7/2005
Msg: 27
Science & Astrology, You aren't the sign you think you are :)
Posted: 7/2/2010 6:55:02 PM
I don't believe in any of those Horoscopes and laugh every time I read them because:

They use conditional sentences when they form their sentences. That way, nothing is REALLLY true. For instance, they say "If you work hard, you will succeed." This is an obvious fact with a condition attached to it. If you work hard, of course you would succeed. :) Thus, anyone who has worked hard and succeeded reads this and says "Wow. So accurate".

And.................

If you haven't been successful, you say "Yah I didn't really work that hard, so I wasn't successful. "
 kailania
Joined: 4/10/2008
Msg: 28
Science & Astrology, You aren't the sign you think you are :)
Posted: 2/6/2012 8:13:23 PM
i do believe that astrology is real, that our signs are determined over where and exactly when we were born.
so...for arguements sake..lets say we all have this knowledge,
how can we use it to benifit the world and our relationships, and ourselves?
the ancient kabbalists also used astrology and passed down the knowledge.
 pfif
Joined: 7/21/2012
Msg: 29
Science & Astrology, You aren't the sign you think you are :)
Posted: 7/26/2012 11:32:41 PM
In a gross way, I suppose you could use it to explain to yourself why
the person in front of you might have a strong propensity to act in
the way you see them acting (especially, repeatedly) that is very
different from how so many people you know, act.

Ex. Pisces is a 'mute' sign. You may wonder why a person in front
of you, known to be a Pisces (sun), seems (in some way) to be mute.

Ex. Leo likes to be the center of attention. If someone is that way,
you might be seeing 'the Leo in them'. May not be the sun -- might
be their moon.

. . .

I think it just gives you another vocabulary to do what everyone does,
which is to classify personality traits and then, accomodate those in
some way. Going deeper, to also classify emotional traits, and 'higher
purpose' traits. Personality: ascendant. Emotions: moon. Purpose:
Sun. Like that.

None of this ought to work, at all. It should be random, in terms of
distribution of traits versus date, time, place of birth.

The observable fact that there are non-random correlations is ..
troubling, to say the least. It's there, and there is no reasonable
cause for it, other than the body of knowledge acquired over time
that shows the correlations.

. . .

My personal belief is to remain quizzical about it, and to look at
oddball things that do allow astrology, such as Nick Bostrom's
Simulation Argument* -- which also allows Santa Claus and the
Easter Bunny, btw, since it's only a computer simulation, and
there are no fixed rules that were not arbitrarily assigned when
the simulation began. ;)

It's costly, and/or dangerous, to take in oddball theory, for the
simple reason it may be difficult to shed, later in life, as more
experience is gained. I've definitely taken in much of it, and am
left standing there, with my cartoon picture of the world, pretty
unsatisfied. I'm not sure one lifetime is nearly enough to reach
a 'settled' state where the present view can really satisfy.

I also have a deep feeling for all those views I've (at least in some
respects) left behind.

. . .

I can say this: I could immediately understand the jargon that
starpoet was using in this thread. Objectively, that's a little bit
like listening to Dr. Gene Scott (R.I.P.) on the television -- he may
have been internally consistent, and he had a detailed knowledge
base that he seemed to have taught from. But the base premises
of that knowledge base may be .. suspect. If you catch my meaning.

Knowledge systems seem to have the trait that they can be both
internally consistent, and orthogonal to 'reality'. Classical geometry
fits this definition; this is taught early in studying the works of
Einstein, for example: that geometry does not 'fit' the real world,
precisely. Or at least, the geometry of Euclid does not seem to.

Like that.

I'm probably a bit like Newton, in that I seem to know when I am
doing science, and when I am not. Newton's non-scientific ideas
were .. yes .. startlingly non-scientific. Yet, his contribution to
science is unquestionably valuable. So he knew; sometimes he did
real science, and sometimes he poisoned himself with his experiments
in alchemy. ;)

Newton believed that God revealed the Calculus only to Newton, which
is why he pursued the ruin of Leibniz so vehemently.

________
*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simulation_Argument
*http://www.simulation-argument.com/
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