|Wally-Mart SUXPage 6 of 20 (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20)|
|>>>Why should you have to keep changing jobs just to find one that you can get a decent wage. |
Why should Walmart be punished for their employees lack of intuitive? If you are unhappy at your job, its not your bosses responsibility to keep lining your pockets until you're satisfied- once again, this is personal responsibility- if you want to improve your quality of life, then YOU are the one who has to take action- not your employer.
A nice example would be littleaudrey- they were unhappy with their job- and that unhappiness drove them to a job they were more happy with. If Walmart paid them $30 with full benefits,they might have stayed- but they wouldn't be any where near as satisfied then if they would have pursued their own goals and their own career.
>>>The problem is companies like Wall Mart care more about making money then there employees.
Aight, this brings two points I'd like to address;
Firstly- and you might want to sit down, cause this ones a shocker- Walmart is not a charity- it exists for its own profits, not to profit their employees. They act in their own self-interest; But by doing well and profiting, their employees profit. If their business was failing, then people who need those jobs would lose them- and existing employees would be paid less.
My, what a humanitarian you are!
Secondly, although I don't know if it was intentional, but you did literally say that Walmart management cares about making money, while their employees do not. Isn't that the point? The employees who make the least care the least about their business succeeding- they are the ones who work the slowest, the most incompetently,and expect another person to pick up the slack where they left off- they simply do not care,or they would put in significant effort to make themselves so valuable to the store that the store would suffer without them.
>>>Why can Wall Mart not pay a decent wage.
Once again, DEFINE DECENT WAGE
We all know exactly why you refuse to answer this question-you're moving the goalpost- if you say $10 is a decent wage, and Walmart does in fact on average full time pay their employees that amount, then you say they should pay $15, or $20, or $25- you are justifying your hatred,and when its proven to be false, you change your stance to better suit your hatred rather than the facts.
More importantly, though- why only Walmart? The independent stores people so love to defend-Ma and Pa shops- why shouldn't they be commanded to follow the same standards? Should Walmart employees be the only ones allowed to have a 'decent' wage off the street? What about Restaurants- those people get paid significantly less,and get far less hours-why aren't you expressing outrage over these people being exploited?
Posted: 7/31/2008 9:54:44 AM
|Nice posts, Neaptide. Thank you for stepping up to the plate to speak up about Wal Mart. Wal Mart is so bad that it should be forced out of business for the way they ruin the environment, treat its workers and destroy communities. |
As I've said before, there ARE low cost alternatives to Wal Mart that are respectable. I've been going to the local Family Dollar for many years, and some of the same staff has been there for a long time. Longevity of staff shows that something is being done right!! Go Family Dollar, kick some Wal Mart butt
Posted: 7/31/2008 11:53:40 AM
|>>> Municipalities are eager to get those places cleaned up and Wal-Mart can come in and look like the good guy. |
Not 'look like the good guy'- they are doing a good deed.
>>>You all might want to thank the "idiot liberal mentality" for standing up and saying no to Wal-Mart.
I personally don't like Taco Bell- no matter how low their prices are, I could easily make the same meal at home for less. Should I be asking people to thank me from refraining from taking my business where I'd rather it not be? Isn't that conceited to ask people to thank you for not supporting people and businesses you don't like?
>>>That is the only reason it is trying to clean up its act and at least make an attempt to be more environmentally responsible.
You see no spin in what you're saying? Someone pointed out that Walmart cleaned up a polluted lot- and you think they should be condemned because they did it for self-interest?
You'd rather our tax dollars pay for it? You'd rather it continue to be polluted?
Walmart, in that instance, did a good thing- stop trying to make it seem like they're a bad guy if they harm the environment, but still a bad guy if they help it, too.
>>>When is working hard a lack of intuitive?
Folding clothing for 8 hours and going home is working hard. Doing an 8 hour shift and then going to night school so you can learn skills to become a manager- that's intuitive. That's making that extra step to better yourself and create a future for yourself.
>>> It is your bosses responsibility as it is society that everyone is taken care of.
The hell it is. Where does your responsibility to better your life end and societies begin? Why should any other human being but yourself be responsible for the decisions you've made in life?
>>> Or do you think it is okay to treat your employees like slaves?
You're an idiot- I've already discussed that these people are not even close to being slaves.
>>> It means that all the work by those of us who have been working so hard to make Wal-Mart be more responsible is paying off.
No, its not! First off, nobody had to 'make' Walmart responsible- they chose to take on the responsibility.
Secondly, Walmart didn't make the site polluted in the first place, so in every context of the word, the only time Walmart 'became' responsible was when the people who were responsible chose to act completely irresponsibility,and Walmart, out of their own freewill, chose to take on the bill because of it. Why do you have no problem with blaming Walmart for pollution they never caused?
And lastly, you aren't making Walmart more responsible, because you've refused to give any support to Walmart- I agree, its completely your choice, but that means since your belief that the only way Walmart can be responsible is to longer exist means that ACTUAL WALMART CUSTOMERS made Walmart responsible- not you- you had nothing to do with it in the least.
>>>I'm just saying that they are not doing it to be altruistic good neighbors.
Exactly- since they do not act like a charity, they should be condemned- even if they do charitable acts. Ignore what they do, and hate them for why they do it.
Posted: 7/31/2008 12:40:55 PM
|Why should they have to act in a charitable manner to be doing charity? Does it honestly matter if they are helping the environment while helping themselves?|
Are you SURE you've read Atlas Shrugged? Theres a several paragraph portion of the book clearly discussing what we are discussing now- that the flaw in morality is in order to have a morality that dictates sacrifice, you must sacrifice morality.
"'Sacrifice' does not mean the rejection of the worthless, but of the precious. 'Sacrifice' does not mean the rejection of the evil for the sake of the good, but of the good for the sake of the evil. 'Sacrifice' is the surrender of that which you value in favor of that which you don't.
"If you exchange a penny for a dollar, it is not a sacrifice; if you exchange a dollar for a penny, it is. If you achieve the career you wanted, after years of struggle, it is not a sacrifice; if you then renounce it for the sake of a rival, it is. If you own a bottle of milk and gave it to your starving child, it is not a sacrifice; if you give it to your neighbor's child and let your own die, it is.
"If you give money to help a friend, it is not a sacrifice; if you give it to a worthless stranger, it is. If you give your friend a sum you can afford, it is not a sacrifice; if you give him money at the cost of your own discomfort, it is only a partial virtue, according to this sort of moral standard; if you give him money at the cost of disaster to yourself that is the virtue of sacrifice in full.
"If you renounce all personal desire and dedicate your life to those you love, you do not achieve full virtue: you still retain a value of your own, which is your love. If you devote your life to random strangers, it is an act of greater virtue. If you devote your life to serving men you hate—that is the greatest of the virtues you can practice.
"A sacrifice is the surrender of a value. Full sacrifice is full surrender of all values. If you wish to achieve full virtue, you must seek no gratitude in return for your sacrifice, no praise, no love, no admiration, no self-esteem, not even the pride of being virtuous; the faintest trace of any gain dilutes your virtue. If you pursue a course of action that does not taint your life by any joy, that brings you no value in matter, no value in spirit, no gain, no profit, no reward—if you achieve this state of total zero, you have achieved the ideal of moral perfection.
"You are told that moral perfection is impossible to man—and, by this standard, it is. You cannot achieve it so long as you live, but the value of your life and of your person is gauged by how closely you succeed in approaching that ideal zero which is death.
"If you start, however, as a passionless blank, as a vegetable seeking to be eaten, with no values to reject and no wishes to renounce, you will not win the crown of sacrifice. It is not a sacrifice to renounce the unwanted. It is not a sacrifice. It is not a sacrifice to give your life for others, if death is your personal desire. To achieve the virtue of sacrifice, you must want to live, you must love it, you must burn with passion for this earth and for all the splendor it can give you—you must feel the twist of every knife as it slashes your desires away from your reach and drains your love out of your body, It is not mere death that the morality of sacrifice holds out to you as an ideal, but death by slow torture.
Posted: 7/31/2008 2:29:21 PM
|>>>t is the self-sacrifice of the INDIVIDUAL, not a gigantic corporation that Rand is taking about - do you see the difference? |
I fail to see if I demand you to sacrifice your home, it opposes Rands philosophy, but if I ask you to sacrifice your business, it is not. Aren't businesses owned by people? Why is it okay to demand that the Walmart CEO's sacrifice, but its not okay to demand it of anyone else?
>>> it is a bully not unlike the government in Atlas Shrugged.
Like how Taggart Transcontinental bullyed the steal smiths to meet their quota on time or they will take their business with someone who will? Like how Rearden demanded companies work to get copper shipments on time or he would take his business elsewhere? Walmart is not doing anything differently- they hold a successful business that many people want to loot, mostly unions and governments.
Atlas Shrugged is entirely about business- you wish us to believe that it has nothing to do about business, meanwhile it argues in the very last page that there should be a constitutional amendment making no laws impeding trade or production?
Posted: 8/4/2008 5:13:03 AM
|>>>Minimum wage is not enough to live on. People that work there also do not get any kind of healthcare. |
Then clearly you need to bring your concerns to the Minimum Wage Thread and the Health care Thread- Its been asked several times, and you blank out answering the most obvious question whist demanding others follow your commands- WHY SHOULD ONLY WALMART HAVE TO PAY THEIR EMPLOYEES A PREMIUM?
If your issue is that Minimum wage is too low,then stop getting this thread off topic and address that in an appropriate topic. If your issue is that there should be Health care, then you should stop running this thread off topic and addressed THAT in an appropriate topic. To say that a business, because they succeed, must pay their employees more, is literally punishing success and rewarding failure. Why should Walmart be treated any differently? If people cannot survive off Minimum wage, then clearly those who do NOT work at Walmart CANNOT SURVIVE. Your entire argument hinges on that fact- that somehow its okay for Sears to pay their employees minimum wage, but not Walmart- is a double standard, an arbitrary ideal that picks the most successful and punishes them for succeeding.
You keep bragging about how noble your social ideals are, and how it should be your right to force them onto businesses, but you feel its beneath you to justify your ideals.
>>>How would you feel about Wal-Mart if you knew that the camera systems that watch their parking lot are there to record union-organizing activities by their own employees, not to guard their customer's safety?
I couldn't care less what Walmart uses their cameras for. Why should I? Wish to dictate what a private business can and cannot use their cameras for?
>>> Or that Wal-Mart structures their wage and overtime so that folks can't make a living there.
Yea, thats it- they do it for no good reason- they just want to be **stards.
And are the precious Ma and Pa shops completely and utterly innocent of this practice?
>>>How many downtown shopping districts have been destroyed, small-town economies wrecked by Wal-Mart?
Consumers choose where to take their business- consumers destroyed downtown America,and look like they are destroying numerous malls now too- and why? Because they chose to go to Walmart.
Blaming Walmart for destroying downtown is nothing more than a negation of your own personal responsibility- you make your own decisions in life,and if Walmart makes the shopping experience more appealing than downtown, then it is not Walmarts fault- its the consumers.
In reality,your arguments cold, dark secret is you're not fighting Walmart- you're fighting the concept of competition.
>>>Wal-Mart sux, and the only people Wal-Mart helps is the Walton family and their cronies.
Be sure to tell that to the Millions of people they employ- I'm sure they'd be better off unemployed.
>>> Yeah, I understand the need for some people to have an affordable place to shop, but our poorest here are as rich as the Waltons are, to the people in some of the countries who slave to make their products.
I understand- since no one is poor,then no one should have the opportunity to lower prices. After all, since you can pay more, then clearly you must pay more- your own personal choices have nothing to do with this at all.
Nonetheless, I love how you, in one breath, explained how Walmart is making small business owners unemployed, then proceeded to explain that no one needs lower prices. So Walmart is making people poor, but there are no poor people? Sounds like they're a magical bunch...
>>> Those are jobs going out of the country where people can be treated like sh!t to make it cheaper.
Yea, those people would be much better off if we were to starve trying to grow whatever they can to survive, or sell their bodies to anyone who will take it when they're 12.
These people are not taking these jobs because they love Walmart- they take these jobs because they are desperately poor.These kinds of countries need these jobs to build up a level of capita and skills- you don't work in a sweatshop today because your father developed skills- skills he could afford because HIS father developed skills, to support his children so they could succeed.
Working in a sweatshop sucks ass- but whats the alternative? And aren't these people, just like in our country, responsible for the decisions they make?
And we keep coming back to that issue- that grown adults are responsible for their decisions in life. You seem to be pushing for a world where you are free from the complex difficulty of consquences and responsibilities
>>> We(sometimes unwittingly)make it happen because some bigwig(very wittingly) makes the opportunity exploitable.
Once again, you're damning the people who sell the shirts made in China rather than damning the people who buy the shirts made in China- who enables who? And unwittingly? Why doesn't know how to check a tag and see the 'Made in China' label? You seem to celebrate the concept of blaming the business for the actions of the consumer.
>>>Do some research on Wal-Mart, and find out what kinds of charitable and philanthropic organizations they are involved with,
I'm sorry- now I'm confused- I thought we were talking about a business? Why should a business be condemned for not acting like a charity? Why should any business be ashamed of success, and promise to give it all away as punishment for their sin?
Posted: 8/4/2008 5:38:59 AM
|>>>Stay on your soapbox there in your own country|
Last I heard, you're not a moderator- so if you think I'm breaking the rules, don't hesitate to report me. I sure did report your ad hominem response.
Way to defend your beliefs- seems you're so right that you're above telling people why- simply that they must follow your beliefs, or you will lynch 'em.
Posted: 8/4/2008 8:39:21 AM
|I say God bless Wal Mart and their low, low prices. My old Mr. Coffee finally died on me this weekend, so I went to Wal Mart for a replacement, expecting to pay around $20.|
Try $7.99 That's right, folks...a brand-new high-quality Chinese coffee pot for $7.99! I was ecstatic. I can take the additional $12.01 I was planning on spending and donate it to the local orphanage, now.
Wal Mart - Do it for the children.
Posted: 8/4/2008 1:48:12 PM
|I don't know if it's still the same company since Sam Walton and his son John, Vietnam veteran and Special Forces medic, died. I am sure there are some business practices that are making those two good men rotate in their sarcophagi...|
Posted: 8/4/2008 8:43:49 PM
|Damon and Neap have made excellent points here about the problems associated with Wal Mart.|
Get the coffeepot tested for lead please. I don't want to see someone suffering because of yet another Chinese made product with lead and other poisons.
Wal Mart is a big promoter of outsourcing jobs to China and I will never forgive them for doing this!!
Posted: 8/4/2008 10:52:28 PM
|>>>Jiperly, you should appreciate that you have southern neighbors that think enough of you to warn you that you are in the path of a storm, the likes of which you haven't begun to imagine.|
Before you continue to make an ass of yourself, you DO know Canada has Walmarts, right? Theres about 7 or 8 in my city alone. A Quick check at Wiki shows that there are 294 stores nationwide, and 36 Supercenters- employing 70,000 Canadians.
Posted: 8/5/2008 1:35:51 PM
If you don't care about the environment or the other smaller businesses, you should at least care about the health care issue. I assume you pay taxes and if so, you are subsidizing Wal-Mart's health care plan with your own hard earned money. I think that is wrong and people should be mad as hell about it.
I think Pisces' point was that we're also "subsidizing" the health care (non) plans of McDonalds, Wendy's, Arbys, KFC, Taco Bell, Batteries R Us, Toys R Us, K-mart, Gas n Go, etc etc on and on....IOW, every other employer out there who doesn't have health insurance, so why pick on just Wal Mart? Are you also boycotting all restaurants and gas stations, for example?
Hell, those gas stations aren't even selling American-made gasoline!
Posted: 8/5/2008 2:02:35 PM
|Holy sh1t! 11 pages of the "should we shop at WalMart or not" bullsh1t! LMAO|
I have this debate with my daughter's boyfriend, who is a Union electrician and against their principles to shop at WalMart.
Here is what I find ironic!
He will go cash his paycheck there when the banks are closed. Never mind that they make $3.oo off of such.
He most certainly would use a WalMart gift card, if given one...or at least pass it on to someone else, as a gift!
He will eat my food, drink my beverages, and use my ass paper...that I have bought at WalMart!!
He returned a printer that he bought at a store that went out of business, and thought he was "pulling one over on WalMart!" Duh Oh! WalMart got credit for the freaking defective printer...and YOU spent the refund money on additional product!
Oh...and the biggest whammy of it all?? Their precious union who bans WalMart...had their lovely electrician trailers in the parking lot of the WalMart converting to a Super Center. Yep. They can contract their services to WalMart...that's ok!
Hypocrisy! If you don't like WalMart...then DON'T SHOP THERE. If you wanna do something about it...then get your duff off the computer and do something that will actually have an effect to the cause...cause posting about it on Plentyoffish is doing NADA.
WalMart has sh1tty clothes! It used to be, "Ew...this looks so K-Mart like!" Now it is, "Ew...this looks so WalMart like!" However...they have great prices and selection on all of the things I could possibly need or want for around my house...my personal hygiene, my prescription glasses, my pet food, my kitchen crap, my cleaning supplies, my ass paper! And all in one swift trip and check out experience! And this thread did absolutely nothing to deter me from continuing such...just as my future son in law did nothing to deter me from such!
Posted: 8/5/2008 2:08:15 PM
|Actually when Wally himself was alive he did try the "Buy America" philosophy. I worked for a major textile company and I myself did some marking research on Wally and the others looking at the labels to see where garments were made. Turns out the higher end stores had a higher percentage of imports than Wally. However that was in|
80's and yes now almost all garments are imported any where you shop.
The laws of supply and demand do not have the mathmatical certainty as the laws of physics, but they arn't far off. Remeber we were the ones running around all over the world the last half century preaching "Free Trade" when we were the big kids on the block. What goes around comes around. Manufacturing always has and always will follow the lowest labor cost, just a fact of business. I now hear the next labor frontier
is Africa, which will make the Chineese prices look out of sight.
American Manufacturing is kind of like the Goose That Laid the Golden Egg. Between government intervention and labor Unions, we priced ourself out of the Market.
If you have a good job the prices will increase your standard of living. If you have a job
in an area associated with American Manufacturing, you might want to consider a career change.
Back on the subject, Wally in large or medium size city is not much of a problem, in a small town, it is certain death to local merchants.
Posted: 8/5/2008 3:03:45 PM
11 pages of postings strictly means that people like to come and add their two cents. If in this 11 pages, someone said, "Wow...I used to shop there, but now I won't" then you can consider something effective occurred from the post! However, I stopped reading at 4 pages, and did not see such!
"Hypocrisy" was said in reference to my examples of my daughters boyfriend...not you, or the OP. :)
Posted: 8/5/2008 5:43:33 PM
|Hey...'tis all good! :) |
Unfortunately, there ARE people who MUST shop at WalMart! I don't care if someone posted that it really is not a matter of "survival!" WalMart carries a lot of generic and their brand items...which is a HUGE difference in the bottom double lines for someone on a limited or fixed income!
Also...to me...it is not that I am "pro" or "con" WalMart...it is just that I cannot stand to see someone spouting about CHANGE when they are doing little about it! At least the OP is doing SOMETHING, by not shopping there!
"Buy American" is such a....fad...if you ask me! It's a great theory, but even your American made cars have foreign made parts!
Posted: 8/6/2008 6:44:09 AM
|One of the northeastern states handled the health care issue well by requiring Wal-Mart to pay for the public healthcare its employees needed if it continued to choose not to provide healthcare to employees that were essentially full time.|
As far as the shopping goes, there are people that find Wal-Mart economically speaking a Godsend. As K-Mart has gone out of business and Target become upscale to the point that the good buys there are few and far between, many people depend on Wal-Mart for stretching their dollars further, particularly in an economy that is lowering the standard of living for even those getting cost of living increases because they are not keeping pace with inflation.
The answer is not really boycotting because it does not create a focus for what people want changed. Yup, they want the big pockets to treat employees better, to stop hiring illegal aliens to clean the stores, to stop locking employees in at night to prevent theft, to stop using sweatshops in third world countries to produce its goods but NOT doing those things alone doesn't solve problems either. Forcing sweatshops to improve conditions is preferable to shutting them down. Forcing companies to provide legal working conditions for illegal immigrants is perferable to those folks returning to countries that are poor as dirt....
Posted: 8/6/2008 7:37:13 AM
|good grief does it really take 12 pages to say that if you think that "Wally-Mart SUX"|
then don't shop there,....no one's holding a gun on anyone yet,....
Posted: 8/6/2008 8:41:43 AM
|Eh...I like Wal Mart.|
Hypothetically speaking now, but suppose one day you people manage to make Wal-Mart crumble. The millions in their employ and their families lose wages, health care etc. What happens next? Mom & Pop stores magically open and employ those out of work? Just playing devil's advocate here, but...what happens next?
Posted: 8/6/2008 8:42:46 AM
|Well I love Wal-Mart, and a free market economy. Every company has the legitimate right to get their goods and services from the lowest cost providers. |
I suggest you start buying from the local little business that has the highest markups to preserve your moral integrity!
Posted: 8/6/2008 8:55:22 AM
|^^You did not answer my question. What happens if Wal-Mart closes down?|
They do have healthcare, they do earn wages.
Where will they go? Will you help support them & their families?
Posted: 8/6/2008 9:16:54 AM
|Yes, there will be "other" businesses around, BUT will there be jobs available? If there were those "other" jobs and people hated Wal-Mart so much or the healthcare was so bad or the wages were so bad would they not already be working there???|
THAT is the big picture.
And frankly no. I care not to read 12 pages of ramblings on.
Posted: 8/6/2008 10:26:24 AM
|"Wal-Mart is making money on the misfortune of the poor who cannot get the better jobs "|
Bingo...So what do YOU suggest those people do??? If they cannot get the better jobs where do YOU suggest they go? Those mythical "other" lower paying jobs with no health coverage?
I can now see hatred for Wal-Mart has done away with any open mind on how to address the massive increase in umemployment if Wal-Mart went belly up.
Posted: 8/6/2008 10:29:33 AM
Well Marita... Tell me, now...
Are we to supposed to think it your opinion, that at least some of us shouldn't take advantage of the opportunity afforded us in this forum to discuss it?
So, that we will be as nonchalant and uninformed about subject matter relevant to the cause and effect of our current economic plight as you appear to be???
That's the best suggestion I've heard yet!
C'mon everyone, quickly...! Let's go bury our heads in the sand!!!
Well ultimately you can discuss it 'till the cows come home but what are your choices?,.....
You can boycott the store and shop somewhere else,...
and if you work for them you can in countries where there are agencies set up to protect worker's,....report them if they break the laws regarding employees,...
Canada and the USA,...for example have such agencies,....Mexico I believe doesn't,...
Chances are if you report walmart for breaking any rule you will loose your job there,...but that's the chance you take
Another choice you have is not working for the company,...but that's where your power to do anything about the company leaves off,....
Posted: 8/6/2008 10:56:29 AM
|Walmart isn't the only conglomerate that behaves this way though,...so why single this company out,....there are any number of other's,.....MacDonalds for instance,...|
I think it's the attitude of companies that needs changing,...how many other's rather hire 2 part timers instead of one full time employee so they don't need to shell out money for benefits? Try most retail outlets do this as a mater of policy,....and we let them,...
It's the employee protection agencies that also have to do better because how often do they let infraction slide,...trust me,...it's a lot,....
And the way employers (many more than just Walmart) treat their staff,....they know that they can replace you in a heartbeat and many tell you regularly,...that's what needs changing,....
That's what we should be discussing how do we change this general attitude of employers in general,...we can't boycott them all,..there's far too many of them,....b ut that's just my opinion,....
20 (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20)