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Show ALL Forums  > Current Events  > Wally-Mart SUX[Thread Closed/Bumped Thread No Clear OT]      Home login  
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 oddandy
Joined: 3/5/2008
Msg: 177
Wally-Mart SUXPage 8 of 20    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20)
Why do I never see a Wal Mart suffering from a shortage of employees? And why have I seen many of the same faces at my local Wal Marts (plural) for several years?
 oddandy
Joined: 3/5/2008
Msg: 179
Wally-Mart SUX
Posted: 8/18/2008 12:24:16 PM


Why do I never see a Wal Mart suffering from a shortage of employees? And why have I seen many of the same faces at my local Wal Marts (plural) for several years?


Maybe it's the soma (ala Brave New World) they put in the water coolers...


Could be. I have been campaigning to get Xanax added to our office water supply, but no luck so far, despite overwhelming evidence that everyone in the office performs better under it's benevolent guidance.
 txmary18
Joined: 3/3/2007
Msg: 180
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History
Wally-Mart SUX
Posted: 8/18/2008 12:28:21 PM
walmart sux and it stinks ahahaaaaaa
 Super Ryan
Joined: 9/15/2007
Msg: 181
Wally-Mart SUX
Posted: 8/18/2008 12:41:28 PM
Wal-Mart only did the right thing after CNN did a story. The only reason Wal-Mart dropped the judgement was out of fear of bad press. If this family did not contact the media, Wal-Mart would have bankrupted them.
Not only does this story show a problem with corporate greed, it also shows the major problem with lawyers charging outrageous fees in civil court. Out of a $700,000 settlement, fees were $283,000, thats 40.5%.
It's also more evidence that universal healthcare is a major benefit to society. In Canada if someone is in a car accident, you only get paid for pain and suffering, and a few minor expenses plus legal fees. We never sue for medical bills, since no one pays their own medical bills. We don't have major problems with the courts over run with frivolous law suits.
 oddandy
Joined: 3/5/2008
Msg: 182
Wally-Mart SUX
Posted: 8/18/2008 12:45:07 PM

To top it all off, the company decided to raise the starting wage for cashiers to try to attract more to $12 dollars an hour (fairly average starting wage for Calgary for that line of work) ...


My point exactly. Wal Mart is just as competitive an employer as anywhere else offering a comparable job. When they can't keep employees, they raise pay.

They don't offer medical benefits? Neither does McDonalds. Where are the "boycott McDonalds" threads?
 Super Ryan
Joined: 9/15/2007
Msg: 183
Wally-Mart SUX
Posted: 8/18/2008 1:38:12 PM

Also, these companies, whose owners stuff their pockets with cash off the sweat of their employees, should be forced to pay a living wage regardless of the labor pool.

The funny thing, $12/h is not a living wage in Calgary. McDanalds hires at $15/h, and Tim Hortons (Coffee and doughnuts) hires at $19/h.
In Calgary you are absolutely dreaming if you think anyone will work for less then $12/h.
Calgary is a very expensive city to live in. When I was there my rent went from $980/month, to $1250/month, and then to $1500/month all in a six month period.
Wal-Mart is not doing anyone any favours in Calgary. They raised the wage only because they needed employees. If the market changes, and wages drop in the city, I would bet all the $12/h employees will be terminated (most likely illegally).
 tallskier
Joined: 5/20/2005
Msg: 184
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Wally-Mart SUX
Posted: 8/18/2008 1:57:06 PM
Hmm.... better business ethics?

Do the "mom and pop" stores pay better?

Do the "mom and pop" stores have better benefits?

Do the "mom and pop" stores sell only goods made in places you approve of?

Actually, due to their small size, the "mom and pop" stores are exempt from amny regulations that do apply to Wal-Mart.

The "big, bad Wal-Mart" chat is getting old. We have a Wal-mart here, and have for years. Oddly enough, we have plenty of "mom and pop" stores, too. Imagine that! We have people who are smart enough not to try to beat Mal-Mart at Wal-Mart's game! There are a lot of things Wal-Mart does not sell, and these smart people sell those things! What a concept!

Wal-Mart exists for one reason - many people want to get the most for their money. I'll admit that I'm less than comfortable with all the stuff being made in China, but that's not Wal-Mart's fault.
 Super Ryan
Joined: 9/15/2007
Msg: 185
Wally-Mart SUX
Posted: 8/18/2008 1:58:03 PM

When was the last time you carried home $150.00 worth of groceries? Don't point any fingers until you look around and make sure you're not living in a glass house.

I ride city transit. When I go grocery shopping, I take it all on the bus. One of the reasons (and there are a few) I don't shop at Wal-Mart is because the nearest bus stop to the store is a 25 minute walk. The same stop is in front of a gocery store.
 oddandy
Joined: 3/5/2008
Msg: 186
Wally-Mart SUX
Posted: 8/18/2008 1:58:19 PM
That is in Canada. Here in the US, the government skewers the labor market by issuing work visas to foreign workers and turning a blind eye on immigration laws to artificially keep wages low.


So why is it Wal Mart and not the government that's the boogie man?


Also, these companies, whose owners stuff their pockets with cash off the sweat of their employees, should be forced to pay a living wage regardless of the labor pool.


Should an unskilled high school kid earn enough to feed a family of 4? Here's the problem with the "living wage" thing....not all jobs are worth it. Working as a cashier at Wal Mart, like working the counter at McDonalds, is NOT a career, it's a job often done by high school kids and IMO it's beyond silly to expect "a living wage" from each and every job that exists.


They raised the wage only because they needed employees.


Isn't it amazing how that works? :wink:
 tallskier
Joined: 5/20/2005
Msg: 187
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History
Wally-Mart SUX
Posted: 8/18/2008 3:00:19 PM
Actually, we have a few "mom and pop" hardware stores here, and they survive in the presence of Lowe's.

If one takes the time to think about it, it's easy to understand why.

I can get in and out of the "mom and pop" hardware store with the item I went for in less time than it takes me to walk into Lowe's from the parking lot! I might save a few cents at Lowe's, but it's not worth the time or the additional gas it takes to get there.

If I have a long shopping list, it might be worth it to go to Lowe's. I also might go there to buy something for which I know Lowe's has a much larger selection.

The free market at work! What a concept!
 arwen52
Joined: 3/13/2008
Msg: 188
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History
Wally-Mart SUX
Posted: 8/18/2008 6:10:45 PM

I just heard from an old friend who we have not talked in a while. She had been employed with a large pet food company here in St. Louis for about a gazillion years and was laid off for some bullsh1t reason. Anyway, she informed me that she took on a cashier position at WalMart and absolutely LOVES the job, benefits, and hours...said she would not take her three times higher paying job, back for anything.

Get back with us in three years, if she lasts that long, and let's see if she still loves it.

My client's nephew started college last year and applied to his local WalMart for a part-time job. He could only work evenings and weekends, times most folks would rather not work, because of his school schedule. He was hired with the understanding that he would only be scheduled to work outside of school hours.

The third week he went into work and found that he'd been scheduled to work during his school hours. He went to the manager and pointed out that he could not work those hours and that he had been hired, by this same manager, with that understanding. The manager looked at him and said to him sternly, "Look, you're going to have to decide. Do you want to go to college or do you want to work at WalMart?" This guy was serious! He was not joking or being ironic. Of course, the kid quit.

I know from people who have worked at WalMart that the charges that they require employees to clock out and continue working unpaid hours are true. As I already pointed out, they *force* companies, even profitable ones, to move their operations to China or else they stop doing business with them. They keep employees underpaid and working part-time so they don't have to pay benefits and depend on state governments to pick up the tab for health care, food stamps, and ADC. In fact, one of my friends in California applied for a job at WalMart and they actually advised her where to go to apply for food stamps because they knew the job didn't pay enough to live on. Lest you think their employees could supplement by working part time elsewhere - how would you do that when your schedule changes every week and is completely unpredictable. Seventy percent of the items in WalMart are made in China. Next time you're complaining about the economy and lack of job security, remember that WalMart aggressively led the way to shifting jobs to China. Let's not even think about their complete lack of conscience regarding the environment or worker's rights. Like I said, you can read well-researched details in The WalMart Effect.

People don't want to know because if they did, they'd have to face up that they are contributing to unconscienable behavior by buying at WalMart. If the things WalMart supports were happening in front of their eyes - women being beaten by the jeans they are sewing, dead zones being created in ocean waters by overintensive salmon farming so you can have $6/lb. salmon - they'd have to confront that they themselves are the problem. Instead, it happens half a planet away to people who don't look like us anyway so it's easy to ignore.

All to save fifty cents or a buck or to have cheap salmon or jeans. Wow.
 oc_jon1965
Joined: 3/30/2008
Msg: 189
Wallmart Gripe , again ? you REALLY NEED a girlfriend
Posted: 8/18/2008 7:09:50 PM
or a new hobby . .. .

or , just get a life in general

 designingwoman
Joined: 9/4/2005
Msg: 190
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History
Wallmart Gripe , again ? you REALLY NEED a girlfriend
Posted: 8/18/2008 8:20:27 PM
The made in China (unprintable) that Wal Mart sells, IS Wal Mart's fault! And Wal Mart is one of the guilty parties for encouraging, aiding and abetting the treason of outsourcing to Communist dictatorships when we should be keeping our jobs at home, or at the very least supporting democratic nations.
 Jiperly
Joined: 8/30/2006
Msg: 191
Wally-Mart SUX
Posted: 8/18/2008 11:07:22 PM
>>>they are the RICHEST corporation in the U.S.

Listen one more time, and really please listen; You cannot claim to be fighting for justice by either singling out a business out or punishing a single company for the environmental and social damages their entire industry creates. That's the opposite of justice.

There's room for argument if you're arguing that all businesses must treat their employees better- but instead you're arguing that Walmart and Walmart alone must treat their employees better, with the idea that, for some reason, other businesses will follow- instead, you will discourage further ventures , since other businesses will see that certain people in Government believe you should be punished if you do not believe and perpetuate YOUR politics, not theirs, and cause a successful big box store to join their failing brethren, like Kmart and Sears, in struggling to succeed. Actions like these will only encourage more urban blight

Its not that Walmart treats their employees awfully- millions of companies, weither their in Fortune 500 or a Hot Dog stand in downtown, treat their employees awfully- no, the issue is Walmart treats their employees poorly, and is successful. So its a combination of entitlement(you believe that the Walmart employees are entitled to more money because their business is successful- its not that all employees deserve living wage, but that Walmart doesn't deserve its money) and punishment(you disagree with Walmart's business practices and plans,and thus have no issue with demanding they pay tithes for their sins.
 georgiabulldogfan
Joined: 9/22/2007
Msg: 192
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History
Wally-Mart SUX
Posted: 8/19/2008 1:18:56 AM
I'm all for free market in america, the only reason wal-mart is so successful is because of capitalism. The only way to bring wal-mart to pay better, better wages, all products made in america is to turn america into communism. I rather see a wal-mart successful despite poor pay and bad benefits and keep government out of it than have govenment step in and mandate a standard to go by. There really isn't but 2 or 3 choices at best here and way people are talkin here is we need to bring down the big giant and the only way I see this happening is communism and that's something americans don't need. Let wal-mart be wal-mart and enjoy low prices it has to offer. If you don't like the work ethcis at wal-mart don't shop there! don't work there! don't even apply there! if people are not willing to work there then wal-mart would either pay more or shut down.
 HarleyKat~
Joined: 3/30/2008
Msg: 193
Wally-Mart SUX
Posted: 8/19/2008 8:08:49 AM

Get back with us in three years, if she lasts that long, and let's see if she still loves it.


I will get right on that and put a reminder in my Works calendar! LOL Actually, her daughter has worked there since I have known them...about...six years. And her son in law...tis where the two met and then married. (They just bought a house too...so their duo WalMart wages from working there long term, must be sufficient for them!)

Regarding your clients nephew and the scheduling conflict...this happens EVERYWHERE and is a result of poor management skills, not WalMart exclusive. My daughter took a part time job at Kohls and was told that they would gladly work around her college and softball schedule, only to have the same thing occur, that you wrote about. It's more about the management screwing up, and taking it out on their employees than ethics or method.
 Super Ryan
Joined: 9/15/2007
Msg: 194
Wally-Mart SUX
Posted: 8/19/2008 9:50:18 AM

People don't understand that Capitalism, left on its own, does not work.. In the end, one person, not through hard work, but mostly by luck in circumstance, will have it all. It absolutely must be regulated by some sort of referee (the government).

I don't think it will be luck. It will be greed and deception. Capitalism left on its own is called lassez-faire capitalism, and it gave us the Enron fiasco, the mortgage crisis, and the unnatural rise in the price of oil in the past year. None of those events would have happened with a responsible government looking out for the economy and the common man.


Regarding your clients nephew and the scheduling conflict...this happens EVERYWHERE and is a result of poor management skills, not WalMart exclusive.

It's true. I used to work foe Safeway (unionized, but a corrupt union), when I was hired, in my interview I informed a manager that in about 9 months I would need a week off to go to my grandmother's 100th birthday party on the other side of the country. When it was about a month away I reminded the same shift manager, he told me it had to go to the warehouse manager. He told me that he could not give a junior employee time off in the summer. I told him it was agreed upon in my hiring, he said he did'nt care. I told him straight out "I am going to my grandmothers birthday with or without your approval". He changed his tune when I said that a responded "Well I would never deny any one the right to go to their grandmothers 100th birthday", I reminded him he just tried to. News in a warehouse travels fast. After his defeat he lost the respect of almost all the staff. And a year later Safeway canned him, and gave his job to the shift manager that originally approved the time off. This all happened in Calgary where employees are considered rare and should be held onto.
So no Wal-Mart does not hold a patent on bad management.
And it is true many companies have bad faith business practices. But Wal-Mart is so big, and drives off so much compitition, that people can't help but use them as the example of what is wrong with the current route captalism is taking.
 oddandy
Joined: 3/5/2008
Msg: 195
Wally-Mart SUX
Posted: 8/19/2008 10:23:12 AM


Working as a cashier at Wal Mart, like working the counter at McDonalds, is NOT a career, it's a job often done by high school kids and IMO it's beyond silly to expect "a living wage" from each and every job that exists.



This is simply an excuse these corporations use to continue to pay substandard wages.


LOL it's not an excuse it's common sense. An unskilled, uneducated laborer is NOT worth the same salary as someone with a college degree or trade certification, for example.


When I was fifteen, I pumped gas at the local service station. I was paid the same wages as the forty year old that also worked there. He got by just fine on the pay. In comparison to the cost of living at the time, it was an acceptable wage. For a high-school kid like myself, it was a great wage.


That's pretty amazing to me, being only 32 years old I've never seen such things. It's just not the reality anymore, and we can decry it all we like, but I don't see it as an injustice. Any job an unskilled kid can do is not worth paying out a "living wage," IMO. Why in the world would anybody bother going to college or learning a trade if we could all feed a family of 4 pumping gas or flipping burgers? Anyone with a family to support can/should look into learning a trade or otherwise making themselves more valuable in the job market, IMO. I personally think it's irresponsible to have a family if you have no meaningful work skills with which to provide for them.



Also, a person's time has value. And, it is my understanding, from discussing this with people who do shop at these places, there are very few high-school kids working at them. I rarely see high-school kids working anywhere, any more. Perhaps that is typical of my location, through.


It must vary by area. In my neck of the woods it's almost always kids at the fast food joints in grocery stores/ Wal Marts. As far as the value of a person's time, that's both subjective AND market-based. We all think our time is more valuable than someone is going to pay us for...the question becomes what is my time worth to an employer compared to the next guy? I believe that the person with more education/experience/etc is going to be viewed as more valuable than other applicants.
 oddandy
Joined: 3/5/2008
Msg: 196
Wally-Mart SUX
Posted: 8/19/2008 2:43:34 PM
Hank:

I hear what you're saying, and I understand where you're coming from, believe me I do. BUT, I don't think we can realistically expect every single paid job that exists to pay enough for a single person to survive on. It would cause a great loss of jobs, an increase in pricing, and it would KILL small business startups, IMO. Think about it...the McDonalds where you buy your 99 cent cheeseburger...the movie theater with it's ticket person, 3-5 concession stand workers and half-dozen ushers, etc etc. All those people making, say, $21k/yr, what would that do to prices? What about the guy that wants to start a small business, say a lawn-mowing company. How hard would it be to start a brand new business, which typically takes a loss in teh first few years, anyway, if the owner had to pay anyone he hired $21k off the bat no matter what they did and how much they worked? I just don't see it as tenable in today's economy, nor do I especially think it "right." 30 year old guy wants to flip burgers or sit in a parking lot attendant's booth all day, why SHOULD he make as much as someone out busting their ass doing hard work all day, or someone who spent 4 years and a ton of money on college?
 Super Ryan
Joined: 9/15/2007
Msg: 197
Wally-Mart SUX
Posted: 8/19/2008 8:34:31 PM

but why not link the CEO's wage to the Janitor's wage? Apply a ratio of sorts so that when the CEO's wages rise, so to do the wages of the Janitor - that way there is no disparity.

They actually do keep track of the ratio between CEO salary and their lowest paid employee. Up until the 70's the average ratio was 40:1, it is now estimated to be 400:1, with some companies exceeding 5,000:1.
 designingwoman
Joined: 9/4/2005
Msg: 198
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History
Wally-Mart SUX
Posted: 8/19/2008 8:36:50 PM
Nice post, Neap.

People have forgotten the wonderful lessons on Capitalism that Henry Ford so wisely taught: He paid his workers well enough so that they can afford to buy the products he sold. Giving workers a good living wage helps preserve capitalism and free enterprise by keeping companies strong. Low pay only weakens capitalism and corporate greed could very well be the downfall of our free enterprise system. Balancing some social programs with capitalism is a good way to preserve free enterprise in a country. Europe is kicking our butts because they have already learned this: Countries like Ireland and Sweden are doing quite well. Proof is in the pudding: The Euro is stronger than the dollar.

Serious food for thought, folks. We should demand a high living wage for workers, which in turn strengthens the economy and plays on the strengths of capitalism.

Sam Walton's kids certainly didn't learn from the fine example that Henry Ford gave us.

RIP Henry Ford!! Sadly, he is gone and his lessons are forgotten. In my heart Mr. Ford's lessons are never gone or forgotten!!
 Super Ryan
Joined: 9/15/2007
Msg: 199
Wally-Mart SUX
Posted: 8/19/2008 8:56:49 PM

He paid his workers well enough so that they can afford to buy the products he sold.

Not only did this give a few hundred sales a year to the employees, but the employees would tell all their friends and family to buy a Ford as well. You can go to any Ford plant today and look in the parking lot, it's all beaters, the workers can not afford to pay $45,000 for a new F-150.

It also reminds me of Air Canada. I grew up in a Air Canada family, my father was a flight dispatcher,my mother was a ticket agent, as was my godfather, my godmother was the chief flight attendant, my grandfather was a ramp manager, and my great uncle was a ramp supervisor. The company offered a generous pay, good benefits, nearly free air travel, and discounts on hotels around the world. Since the privatization the company has been driven into the ground thanks to Robert Milton. Soon benefits were being cut, salaries were bein lowered, and the free travel was becoming less of a benefit since most flights were being overbooked. When I was a kid Air Canada employees were rabidly loyal to the company, they would brag to friends about what a great job they have working for such a wonderful company. Now they hate the company, trash talk it at any opportunity, and tell friends to fly WestJet.
You can talk to any marketing expert, they will tell you "Word of mouth is the strongest advertising possible". This is because people will trust the word of a friend over any other advertizing.
So when these companies treat their employees like shit. They are biting the hand that feeds them. And you can look at the history of capitalism to proove that.
 Super Ryan
Joined: 9/15/2007
Msg: 200
Wally-Mart SUX
Posted: 8/19/2008 9:43:13 PM

They actually do keep track of the ratio between CEO salary and their lowest paid employee.

So I found out the 2007 pay for the Wal-Mart CEO. It's $23,300,000. I also found out some employees make $8.53/h for 35 hours a week and figured at 50 working weeks a year that would be $14,927.50.
So that means the CEO ratio for this employee is 1:1560.
 tallskier
Joined: 5/20/2005
Msg: 201
view profile
History
Wally-Mart SUX
Posted: 8/20/2008 1:30:25 PM

I am saying that the disparity is too wide. The average ratio was 40:1 in the 70s and now, 30 years later it is closer to 400:1 (and as Super Ryan pointed out, Wal-Mart's - and many others - is way higher).


Too wide, in your opinion, but not demonstrably so in any factual sense. Shall we pass a law limiting CEO pay? Who decides what CEOs get paid, anyway? Yes, let's have the government decide... after all, they have shown that they know all about running a business efficiently, right?


Can you see how this pattern will continue until the middle class is non-existent and the working poor are going to be so beat down and tired that they will not have the energy to stand up and speak out? Or maybe that's exactly what these corporations see and in their minds that's a win-win.


I can see how pigs might fly, but that doesn't make it likely.

It must amuse people to theorize about how big corporations want to eliminate the middle class. I have a hard time seeing how that benefits anyone. If you get rid of the middle class, who is going to be shopping at Wal-Mart?
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