|Abused MenPage 16 of 21 (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21)|
But... none the less.... I never went back. And, as a gift to me, I dont know how my lawyer did it, but the papers were signed and delivered ON HER BIRTHDAY!! What a birthday present!!! wooo hoooo!!
Just a quick note. You say that all occurred about 10 years ago. Yep. Back then the convention was to just arrest the man. The cops have wised up a bit since then in most places. However, if she's the one who calls, she's still the one they'll believe.
Posted: 12/20/2007 5:29:16 PM
You say that all occurred about 10 years ago. Yep. Back then the convention was to just arrest the man. The cops have wised up a bit since then in most places. However, if she's the one who calls, she's still the one they'll believe.
I'm sure that is true in some instances, but 20 years ago, with a punctured lung, a severely beaten face and a separated shoulder in the hospital for 5 days ~ my ex wasn't even questioned as to WHY he did it. Nor was he arrested, EVER. So, maybe geography plays a part and these good ol' boys didn't want to because he was a local "celebrity" of sorts or maybe they didn't want the messiness known to the public that spouses beat one another or whatever, but that azzhole has beat every woman since me and still has no domestic violence record. Things have changed some, you'll see arrests in our paper now, usually BOTH parties here. But even 10 years ago, it was still pushed under the rug. This is supposed to be a family oriented Mormon based community ~ spouses don't beat one another. HA ~ geezus ~ D E N I A L. Today, I stand firm that men can be just as abused and in some cases, the mental/verbal abuse they endure is simply vile. BUT ~ as for hitting someone ~ I don't care who hits whom first, it's not appropriate to hit anyone, even in retaliation. If a woman hits a man, he should call 911 just like I would advise any woman. Otherwise, you just stepped into the realm of abuser times two. Anger is an ugly thing, walking away takes much more character, class and intelligence. JMO
Posted: 12/20/2007 7:30:48 PM
You can always go to places like this
Some of you might be surprized by this, but I actually think this could be a good approach. If you are trying to escape and she's threatening you in any way, she's declared war and you might as well win it if you can.
The best way to win it is to get enough on tape to show the judge she's lying about a specific incident. When she has no more veracity as a witness, the case against you will be too weak to pursue. They'll still try to game a deal out of you, but if you have evidence that would impeach her, tell them that the deal you're willing to make is that you won't sue her for everything she's ever likely to get for slander--and them for false arrest.
Then walk away from her and don't look back. Women like that deserve to grow old and die alone (unless they figure it out and make amends for the harm they've done). For females, that is the ultimate punishment. DV cases are all public record, so one thing to ask a new woman is if she's ever been involved in a DV case. If you get any sort of uncomfortable feeling, run a background check.
Sadly, a lot of innocent women might get offended by this next suggestion, but if a woman does claim to have been a victim before, I'd think twice about getting involved with her. And if she says she came out ahead, well, can you spell RED FLAG? In fact, if a woman complains about her previous boyfriends it's a bad sign. Women worth dating take responsibility for their own part in things.
Posted: 12/20/2007 8:17:24 PM
it is a proven fact that women are most likely to be abused my men then men by women.
The justice system is not being bias
You've proven one fact arkansas, and it has nothing to do with DV.
Posted: 12/21/2007 1:19:13 AM
Women like that deserve to grow old and die alone
I'm going to have to bust myself on my own BS here. Punishment simply isn't the issue, even if I did get a bit overheated there. Besides, it doesn't matter what I think. Even if growing old alone is the logical consequence for going after the men who love them, some women may well get so lost in their sense of entitlement and cleverness that they lose sight of their own humanity. I can't do anything about that. Nor can the men who love them.
Those women are free to do what they do, but their freedom stops at the right of an innocent man to live out his life in peace. In the bad old days, no for women, no one took female victims seriously. That has certainly changed, and we could do far worse than to emulate what worked for them. It wasn't a kindly government that started battered women's shelters. It was other women. If we better support for male victims, it's up to us men to find a way.
Posted: 12/21/2007 6:32:16 AM
|Well, Schaden, if you read my posts again (the topic of conversation has flown around as wildly as a bucking horse) you'll note that I drew clear distinction between physical "abuse" and potentially lethal threat. The thread has lost a lot of its focus though, so I understand the need to reemphasize this. Far be it from me to deny that some (many? most?) women are crazy and sneaky enough to pull off a stunt like you describe! ("He had it comin'! He had it comin'! He only had himself to blaaaaaaame.....")|
Tilly, I haven't been out to insult anybody, but I can't be held responsible for the overly sensitive who make it their second job to feel offended and outraged. (What's that pay these days?)
(your attempt at sarcasm doesn't hide the real meaning)
I stand firmly by the assertion that I'd never make such bigotted comments. Some people (especially those who can't accurately read arguments) might, though. My opinions are not generalized facts, they're just my opinions, and I've never intended to push them any further. If however, you consider all opinions opposed to yours as intolerable "generalisations of fact," then I guess Godwin's Law is about to come home to roost.
I work with women (some smaller than you) that would chew you up and blow you out in small bubbles.
No you don't. How about that?
As for posting your address on an open forum ( if it's genuine)....how intelligent is that? I'd be looking over my shoulder if I were you.
Did you miss the last sentence or are you just not very adept at reading? It's a genuine address all right (one where I can be regularly found) but it's not my own. If you were I, you'd be good looking.
Posted: 12/21/2007 10:47:51 AM
|Wow ponygirl, you are truly a special person. Your positive attitude towards men after being abused speaks volumes about the kind of person you are. |
Regarding your current relationship with an abusive man, I feel bad for you. Alcoholic or not, I think he will abuse you again. If he thought it acceptable to hit you while drunk, he will do it again while sober. That's my opinion, but I admit it's not based on any research or studies.
Please be careful, you don't deserve abuse of any kind, ever.
Posted: 12/21/2007 6:59:02 PM
I don't know the statistics, but I do know that there are women in prison for having committed these crimes, although I suspect there are more men inside for the same thing. Whether that's due to the justice system(s) or under reporting of it by men is probably anyones' guess ....... I would be intelligent enough to base my "opinions " on having conducted some cursory research
Isn't there a saying about pots, kettles, and some dark color?
Posted: 12/21/2007 10:14:16 PM
Isn't there a saying about pots, kettles, and some dark color?
C, I think that's the first sensible thing you've said in this entire thread! Good on ya!
Posted: 12/22/2007 12:03:36 AM
C, I think that's the first sensible thing you've said in this entire thread! Good on ya!
That's a pretty funny compliment Ace.
Posted: 12/23/2007 6:57:19 PM
not that I ever would suggest you had done that
As no one should, since I never theorized.
Posted: 12/25/2007 12:36:57 PM
Doesn't the mouthy guy at the bar that gets a mouthful of fives win the assault case in court?
Posted: 12/26/2007 6:03:42 PM
Stop allowing provocative behaviour!
Unfortunately for your argument, people have freedom of speech as well as freedom of association. There does reach a point where words do cross the line into threats and harrassment. Those are also technically illegal.
If the woman at the bar really wanted the jerk to stop harrassing her, she could have told the bartender, who should have gotten the bouncer on it before all that drama.
Since she had a nonviolent avenue to get releif, she should have pursued it. However, she chose to opt for aggravated battery and then conspiracy to incite grave bodily harm instead. BTW, the bouncer and barternder should have both been fired for letting things get that far out of hand in the first place.
There is always a nonviolent way to resolve a situation involving provocative words and gestures--unless you're looking for an excuse to get violent yourself.
Where I come from, the woman or man who throws the first punch goes to jail.
Posted: 12/26/2007 6:30:29 PM
You hang in some quiet high-end 'gigar/martini' type bars where nobody EVER acts stupid, doncha?
I used to work with convicted DV offenders who needed to stay out of jail. They were mostly working men--guys in the trades and much tougher than me. It was my job to point out to them all of the ways they could escape a provocative situation without getting into another beef. The mantra of every newbie was "she made me do it, that b1tch."
I had to explain to them that if they kept thinking that provocation gave them reason, they'd be back in jail in no time. Yes, we should enforce the laws against threats and harrassment, but no man can afford to let himself be provoked or think that the provocation is any kind of excuse.
I used to have to tell my guys to leave a provocative situation before they lost their cool. It's still good advice.
And BTW, if I thought I might have to fight my way out of a bar, I probably wouldn't go in.
Here's to ya!
Posted: 12/27/2007 2:33:29 AM
You n I both know enough to walk away from that type of situation, but I'VE LIVED thru an abusive relation.
Ouch! Glad you got out of that relationship without winding up in jail over it.
I used to tell my guys to run from those situations if necessary. Looking like a coward is a much better choice than going to jail over what usually amounts to bullshit.
I hear you about provocateur's being held accountable. I just want my guys to do what they need to do to stay safe first, and then deal with the provocations at their convenience. The bottom line for me is this: I don't care what a woman's got, if she tries to bully me or get my goat, we're through.
Posted: 12/27/2007 3:53:47 AM
|I will agree that leaving a verbally abusive relationship before becoming violent is the right choice. The problem is, when a man walks away he risks losing his home, his children, his freedom, and may even end up supporting his abuser financially. I don't wonder why some men may try violence instead of leaving.|
Posted: 12/27/2007 10:30:44 AM
I won't admit that if I p!ss somone off, I sould accept tat it is ok for that person to be physically violent towards me?
He comes from a planet where a certain percentage of women feel entitled to verbally abuse, humilate, and even physically abuse men without regard or consequence.
At first, like you, I wondered if he was implying that it's OK to hit women who act like that. However, I no longer think so. But he is saying that there should be consequences for women who act like that and I agree.
Women act like that because we men have stupidly gone along with it. Why did we do that? Because we were sexist and figured that their antics weren't important enough to be concerned about. When it was socially acceptable to "discipline" a wife, we might have gotten away with using force to keep her in her place. However, once we all agreed that women really are free and equal, we had to take responsibility for learning how to behave accordingly. Some men have. So have some women. --but not all.
A woman who's behavior is so provocative and upsetting that I find myself tempted to hit her is simply a risk that I can't afford to take. The consequence for putting my freedom at risk by pushing her luck with me--so that she can feel some sense of triumph, or superiority, or control, or whatever it is she thinks she gets out of acting like that--is for me to walk out and not look back.
If a temporary sense of vindication is more important to her than my safety and freedom, she doesn't love me much anyway, and the sooner I realize that and move on, the better. She might have strong feelings, but that's not at all the same thing as loving me.
Posted: 12/27/2007 10:47:28 AM
I will agree that leaving a verbally abusive relationship before becoming violent is the right choice. The problem is, when a man walks away he risks losing his home, his children, his freedom, and may even end up supporting his abuser financially.
The cycle of abuse takes a while to develop, but the signs are there from the beginning. Women who have the attitude that it's OK to be abusive don't just wake up with it after 10 years. You cannot tell me that in 99% of the cases a man who goes off hadn't been subjected to digs, cutting remarks, emotional blackmail, sexual withholding, and all that other manipulative crap for quite some time--either from her or by watching his parents do the DV dance. In the days of sexism we were taught to disregard or think of as that stuff as "cute." It was a woman's prerogative as the "diminutive" sex but of no real consequence. Now, a guy who sticks around to be treated like that risks jail time.
That's why it's so important to see how a woman behaves when she gets angry _before_ you consider living with or marrying her. You might think you're in love with a woman, but if she doesn't fight fair in the beginning, how much less fair will she be when the stakes are higher down the line? That first slap, the first drink down the pants, the wheedling, the trading sex for work, presents, or other "favors," the cutting remarks, the jealousy-provoking flirting, anything that's intended to get you to do something she wants because she's made you feel bad or frustrated, all of that is abusive, and your rage over it will only increase over time. If you don't call it out immediately and make it clear that you won't stick around for more, you put yourself at risk. Don't be an idiot. I wouldn't dump her the first time. But if she didn't take concrete steps to deal with her abusive attitude right away, I'd be gone. Who needs it?
If you don't want to wind up either becoming the abused or the abuser, then it's best to nip a relationship like that in the bud. If you are the sort of guy who wonders if he'll ever get a woman the bad-boy secret is this: The more willing you are to break things off quickly, the more attractive you appear to women. So end those bad relationships right away!
When women who act like that find that they cannot keep a man, they'll either grow up or they won't, but we won't be going to jail over them any more.
Posted: 12/27/2007 3:32:16 PM
|The issue of intimate partner abuse is neither a female or male issue. It is a human issue and must be addressed to prevent the behavior from being directed toward either gender.|
Posted: 12/27/2007 3:43:40 PM
Women act like that because we men have stupidly gone along with it.
While I agree that there are a percentage of women who provoke, I'm not sure I agree with the fact that they do it simply because some men go along with it.
I basically think that women who purposely try to provoke a man.. getting a negative reaction from him.. be it violent or not... are just doing so because they're a$$holes. I honestly don't think they're acting like that just because they think the men will react in some way.
The consequence for putting my freedom at risk by pushing her luck with me--so that she can feel some sense of triumph, or superiority, or control, or whatever it is she thinks she gets out of acting like that--is for me to walk out and not look back.
To me.. what you said there sounds like more of the reason. She thinks if she can make you (or a man) angry and react a certain way, then she has some sort of control. She's still an a$$hole, though.. don't you think?
That's why it's so important to see how a woman behaves when she gets angry _before_ you consider living with or marrying her.
I'm probably screwed then. I am wont to throw things (not at anyone and nothing I could break) when I'm angry. I'd still never hit anyone though... unless in self-defense. But if a guy I'm dating sees me throw a magazine on the floor when I get angry (whether it's angry at him or not).. what else would he think?
sparred with her before
I feel that this comment is indicative of a violent person, don't you?
It is called debating, not a personal boxing match.
Oh brother. Ever heard the term verbal sparring? It ain't violent... it's a turn of phrase.
I'm betting your ex hit you because of your smart sarcastic mouth that you run non stop. I've never met an abused woman yet that didn't intentionally provolk the man.
Geesh.. another oh brother moment.
So what of abused guys? Did they run their mouth, too? Or was that brilliant little morsel (sarcasm) just for abused women?
Posted: 12/27/2007 3:50:30 PM
|Oh yeah I'm a big guy and my ex would start fights to try to build a record of me too try and take my kids but I fought for them in court and won I raise my 3 daughters and she pays nothing even though she is supposed to!!!|
Posted: 12/28/2007 9:41:57 AM
If you read what I wrote - I was specifically addressing those who claim that a person somehow deserves to be hit because they "ran their mouth off". I won't deny that there isn't some verbal abuse going on in forums; but to dismiss it as a less serious kind of abuse is both hypocritical and wrong. It's like saying hey, I didn't hit you.....I just kinda nudged you toward the frieght train that ran over you....so it's not abuse.
If you verbally abuse someone, don't be surprised if one day....they stand up to you and knock you down. Better to not start the process in the first place than to cry that they hurt you worse than you hurt them! That's what a 5 yr old says! Bullies almost exclusively use verbal abuse, that doesn't make them any less bullies.
By trying to lessen the seriousness of one "type" of abuse over the other, you're justifying the abuser and blaming the victim. ALL abuse is WRONG.....there are NO degrees.
25% of women murdered are killed by their male partners. 12% of men murdered are killed by their female partners. I know this sounds chauvenistic of me, but somehow I just can't reconcile the picture in my mind of a woman being verbally assaulted to the point that she becomes physically violent. I CAN however envision a male being pushed to that point. My point here is that this 13% discrepancy could well be due to the theory that SOME of this can be attributed to PROVOCATION. Be honest here....how many times have you witnessed situations where the term applies..."if she were a man she'd have had her butt kicked".???
DON'T ENGAGE IN PROVOCATIVE behavior! Verbal abuse is just that. About 12 yrs ago I was dating a high school teacher/football coach who fell prey to the campaign where young boys were being told that "they were resposible" even IF the girl was drunk, attacked them, etc. (I'm talking about a date rape scenario). His feeling was that by promoting this to the young men he was accountable to that he was helping to foster decent behavior. The PROBLEM lay in the fact that is was totally absolving ALL responsibility on the part of the women in question. No longer were they to be held responsible for their OWN provocative behavior. As the mother of 3 teenage daughters (at that time) I was totally outraged at such a campaign. Regardless of gender, PEOPLE need to understand that their actions elicit reactions! Now that is certainly not to say that there aren't many instances where a bully or a pervert needs no provocation to do what's wrong. There certainly are plenty of those running around. HOWEVER, I believe that a good many of these situations COULD be AVOIDED if ALL people were held accountable for ALL of their actions.....including the words they allow to come out of their mouths!
Posted: 12/28/2007 11:33:24 AM
It STILL doesn't justify physical abuse!! NO ONE, not even in the most vague and loosely interpreted way has suggested that ANYTHING justifies physical abuse. We have merely stated how childish it is to NEGATE the seriousness of one TYPE of abuse. Talk about "justification"!!!!
Posted: 12/28/2007 11:56:20 AM
|The worst abuse,.. is mental. It doesn't leave bruises or gashes to see, and it goes on & on untill everything gets numb, and stays that way. I've been pounded by 6'5" 300 lb guys, bounced off cars at 50mph, stabbed, and in all kinds or wrecks. Physical pain & injury heals,.. emotional pain & injury stays there, deep, and always bleeds to the surface when everything gets quiet...long after the event itself is dust. One of My personal favorite songs is by Stabbing Westward:|
There are times when I'm just a shell
When I do not feel anything for anyone
All I feel is hollow and bruised
Used up and misused
Forced to be someone I don't want to be
Have I failed somehow or some way
Will the weight of today finally pull me down to drown
In the depths of despair
Where I am alone
Except for my rage
I hate my darkest days
I hate my darkest days
I hate my darkest days
I hate my darkest days
My darkest days .......
Once you see it, & hear it, it seems easier to deal with. Men are not trained in "emotional outlet" from near birth, you're trained to suck it up.."big boys don't cry"
"you want to be a sissy?..stop crying!" So,. You suck it up, over & over until something snaps. Or, you suck it up, and cut-by-cut, just go numb untill there's nothing to feel.
Just my view on it...and like Forrest says: "that's all I have to say about that"
Posted: 12/28/2007 12:32:31 PM
Whoever made up that "Sticks 'n Stones" nursery rhyme obviously didn't get out much. They obviously didn't pay much attention in Sunday school either!
Proverbs 18:21 Death and life are in the power of the tongue. And James 3:8 But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison.
The effects of verbal abuse are ACCUMULATIVE. And here again, I'm am NOT advocating justification for physical abuse. It truly saddens me however that female abusers weapon of choice is most often the most deadly weapon of all. It is beyond me how "we" can hold our selves up as nurturers, lovers of peace, and the "gentler" sex while deluding ourselves that our verbal abuse is not destructive.
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