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 passionteman
Joined: 3/7/2005
Msg: 60
Canadian MilitaryPage 3 of 6    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6)
I only support our military to defend our own homeland, not follow US politics and go in other countries shooting at people.
 arri
Joined: 10/5/2005
Msg: 63
Canadian Military
Posted: 4/19/2007 4:00:13 PM

part of that comes from the reality that our military is so woefully underfunded and our equipment is sadly and pathetically outdated that for us to undertake security with obsolete technology is laughable.


We don't need a lot of the best toys because we are not at war with anyone. We just need enough of these toys to have a professional army that knows how to use them. We also don't need to make massive investment in a military industrial complex because unless we are planning on defending ourselves against the Americans, we won't need self sufficiency in that area. We'll buy them from the Americans like everyone else does. In the mean time, they let us train with them.

We should really reconsider our involvement in Afghanistan too. Spain, Italy, Germany and France, members of both the EU and NATO, have refused to send more troops or to move their existing forces in Afghanistan to help with spring offensive against the Taliban.

Unless Canada decides to actually get involved in the International politics as ... maybe the softer side of North America ... instead of of just nodding to what Bush says and then run and hide in shame, we won't have a need for a big military.
 passionteman
Joined: 3/7/2005
Msg: 68
Canadian Military
Posted: 4/24/2007 9:49:37 AM
Sweet

That's why everyone is entitled to their own opinions.


I see where you come from on this, but with all due respect, when someone enlists in the Military they sign a piece of paper that states if they are called to duty to serve their country, they will.


You could only call it serving the country if you are attacked and you would want to defend your own homeland, which is not the case when it comes to Canada.

You could only call it serving the country when we are helping those people, not shooting at them. The fact of the matter is that the role of our military has changed since the conservatives have come to power. We are more of us policy followers now a days.

This way of serving Afghanistan doesn't help at all and will never help in the future either. It all comes down to trampling people's cultures and forcing our ways of living on them.
 KarmaTiger
Joined: 3/9/2007
Msg: 69
view profile
History
Canadian Military
Posted: 4/24/2007 1:05:34 PM
I joined in the early 90s and rode out the era of drastic budget cuts. Anyone else remember our former uniforms becoming "combat lingerie" because they were getting so threadbare you could see through the nylon?

I read a lot of ignorance in this thread. Assertations that Canada's military went into iraq, that it's a puppet of the US military, etc. All false.

As a former Canadian troop and most recently an advisor on the CBC documentary The Great War I can tell you Canada has had a long and proud history of autonomy and "get 'er done". We attack those that need to be attacked, defend those that need to be defended. Afghanistan was about breaking up the Taliban and the support it offered Al Qaeda, and now about rebuilding the nation to decrease the liklihood of another hardliner filling in the power vacuum. The only nation we've agressively invaded was the US, and only because President Madison picked a fight to push the border north to 54-40.

Two world wars, Korea, peacekeeping, and now Afghanistan have been about restoring stability and peace through the overthrow of those who would conquer.

The key problems with the Canadian Forces come not from the troops but from the beurocrats:

When they began dumping males form combat arms roles and pushing in females who didn't meet the physical standards, just so some pencil-pusher in Ottawa could boast about higher female enrolement, all it did was degrade the achievements of the women already there - who had earned the respect of their co-workers - and decrease the effectiveness of the units as they now had members not physically suited for their mission.

When some twit in Ottawa decided "We need a unit to guard the compound in Somalia - let's send the airbourne, they're not doing anything" that was a recipe for disaster. To tell them they can't fire even when fired upon only exacerbated the situation. But did Maclean's talk about how 12 year olds were shooting at Canadian troops? Or how the troops weren't allowed to defend themselves, night after night, as raids on the compound increased? No. One night the troops decided they weren't going to take it anymore - the airborne are trained to attack, not run - and they defended their compound. And the media was all to willing to sensationalize the events.

Was it right for them to beat a prisoner? no. But it wasn't right to bomb Dresden either. In combat, when the tide turns it's common for those who were attacked to take out aggression on the predators-turned-prey. Those directly involved should have been appropriately punished, but that's it.

You may recall all through that era the buzz was that the military was a useless drain on taxpayer's money. Some of us got spat on or egged on the way to work. Training was cut back to the point of being almost comedic.

Then September 11th happened, and suddenly the military was everyone's best friend. A few years later and small-l liberals are starting with their ignorant blather about what they theorize the military must do, therefore it must be true, and don't bother to let facts get in the way of their preaching.
 KarmaTiger
Joined: 3/9/2007
Msg: 70
view profile
History
Canadian Military
Posted: 4/24/2007 1:09:48 PM

You could only call it serving the country if you are attacked and you would want to defend your own homeland, which is not the case when it comes to Canada.

You could only call it serving the country when we are helping those people, not shooting at them. The fact of the matter is that the role of our military has changed since the conservatives have come to power. We are more of us policy followers now a days.

This way of serving Afghanistan doesn't help at all and will never help in the future either. It all comes down to trampling people's cultures and forcing our ways of living on them.


What an uneducated steaming pile.

The only reason Hitler rose to power was because after the allies removed the Kaiser, Germany was left destabilized and leaderless. If you smash the existing power of a nation you'd better stick around and ensure the appointment of a stable government, or oyu're asking for even bigger trouble down the road.

As to serving your country only being about defending oyur own nation's territory - are oyu saying the thousands who died at Vimy weren't serving their country? It is specifically because the 4 Canadian divisions fought side by side and smashed through the Bavarian forces that the Brits began treating Canadians not as colonists but as people from an autonomous nation. It is specifically because of Canadian blood shed on foreign soil that there IS a Canada from which you can sit in safety at your computer and type without thinking.
 KarmaTiger
Joined: 3/9/2007
Msg: 72
view profile
History
Canadian Military
Posted: 4/24/2007 6:26:08 PM
well said, sweetreat
 KarmaTiger
Joined: 3/9/2007
Msg: 76
view profile
History
Canadian Military
Posted: 4/24/2007 11:03:34 PM

We all know the TRILLION was spent on Iraq rather than Afghansistan.

We know that the shareholders of Haliburton saw their share prices
go up 4000% - NO EXAGERATION. People are making incredible
amounts of money....it's OUR kids that are dying NOT the politicians
or the shareholders - let's get that much straight...I'll meet you half way.


Dude - seriously. This is a thread about the Canadian military. Iraq and haliburton are completely irrelevant to the CF. We're involved in Afghanistan, a separate country, and haliburton supplies the US military, not canadian.

Oh, and your pet theory about drug cartels? During the years the coalition in Afghanistan were under Canadian command, Afghanis were allowed to grow poppy crops. it was seen as interfering with the local economy to make them stop. It's only recently that the crops have been put to the flame, and as part of an American, not Canadian, anti-drug campaign.
 KarmaTiger
Joined: 3/9/2007
Msg: 79
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History
Canadian Military
Posted: 4/25/2007 6:25:56 AM
Yeah - nevermind that some of us were actually deployed overseas in uniform, and have friends currently serving in Afghanistan. What the hell would we know about what Canadian troops do or have done?

 KarmaTiger
Joined: 3/9/2007
Msg: 80
view profile
History
Canadian Military
Posted: 4/25/2007 6:29:21 AM

The crops are doing very well since the usa kicked out the
Taliban, and ALL crops...80% are heading
to the United States market and it's been a lucrative year for all stake
holders and those that depend on the drug trade directly and indirectly.

We Canadians are involved in the anti-drug campaign in Afghanistan.
By our laws that make these drugs illegal, we just handed the terrorist
a blank check that earn them BILLIONS of dollars. Legalizing it tommorow
will result in: 1) No change to the number of people who get addicted to
heroine....which is easily available. 2) Terrorists will be starved out of money.


Make up your mind - are we destroying the crops or allowing them to grow?

Here's a newsflash for ya: When Canadians were in command of the coalition in Afghanistan, we let 'em grow the crops. Why? Because Canadian law doesn't apply in other countries, and depriving them of their livelihood doesn't exactly win hearts and minds. If it sounds familiar, it's because I already told you that a few posts previous.

Here's another nugget you overlook: under the Taliban, the crops were illegal. So - er - what was that about billions for terrorists?
 KarmaTiger
Joined: 3/9/2007
Msg: 83
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History
Canadian Military
Posted: 4/25/2007 6:09:49 PM
ah, so we're to go by your interretation of a journalist's interretation of what's going on with the Canadian military, vs. real world first hand experience in uniform.

wow.
 KarmaTiger
Joined: 3/9/2007
Msg: 84
view profile
History
Canadian Military
Posted: 4/25/2007 6:11:38 PM
'interretation' should read 'interpretation'
 passionteman
Joined: 3/7/2005
Msg: 87
Canadian Military
Posted: 4/25/2007 7:44:32 PM
Karma


What an uneducated steaming pile.

The only reason Hitler rose to power was because after the allies removed the Kaiser, Germany was left destabilized and leaderless. If you smash the existing power of a nation you'd better stick around and ensure the appointment of a stable government, or oyu're asking for even bigger trouble down the road.

That's what Russians' slogans were when the entered Afghanistan long time ago "liberating Afghans" and look what they did to it after decades of war and now it is the American's turn.

Sweet

America was the country that was "officially attacked",

Let's not talk about where the proof of that is at all.

but we lost Canadians on September 11 as well. Official releases from the Taliban have pointed at Canada as a terrorist target. Should we sit back and wait for them to drop a bomb on Parliment Hill? Or wait until they blow up Niagara Falls?

You call it "official" as if you were handed over those proofs by the Taliban themselves. Anyone could say something. Got any proof that it was from the official Taliban, hand-written and sealed? Don't believe so.


I will tell you from friends/soldiers that I've spoken to, they beleive they are making a difference. I'm currently putting together a care package to send out to a friends Unit that are stationed in Afghanistan, they tell me about how they encounter children and people everyday and how they thank them. Weeping and hugging them for all they have done. You don't see that on the news. I, and others are currently trying to get 1000 soccer balls to send over so the soldiers can give them to the Afghany children (the soldiers btw are the ones that have been requesting them) But of course you don't see that on the news. They are currently rebuilding some buildings that were blown up in attacks, but of course....you don't see that on the news.

Ummmmmmmmm. How come they aren't shown in the news then if it is good news and we are supposed to hear it?


I don't see it that way. Do you feel that WWII was trampling on peoples cultures?

WWII has nothing to do with Afghanistan. Afghans never attacked Canada at all. Infact, there is not a single Afghan who even participated in any of the September 11 attacks in the US at all. So attacking Afghanistan is totally pointless.












 Woodsmoke and Oranges
Joined: 2/3/2007
Msg: 89
Canadian Military
Posted: 4/26/2007 9:04:02 AM
I think the Canadian Military has become a shell of its former self. One of the biggest domestic concerns that should be adressed is how can the military exert our soveriengty over the Arctic Island and Northwest Passage. Without having the ability to show we exercise control over the region we could end up in bitter disputes over land and sea. Not just with the Americans, but others too.
 KarmaTiger
Joined: 3/9/2007
Msg: 90
view profile
History
Canadian Military
Posted: 4/26/2007 10:16:03 AM

We have two people siding with war on this one because they have personal stakes in this or large egos. These two have had friends and/job in this and their reputations to uphold. Financed by taxpayers of course when the money should have been used on healthcare or education etc.


I received two engineering degrees through the military, and not onlysaved civilians from the harm of war in Bosnia but saved Winnipeggers during the red river floods. But to you, the only possible motive I could have to say Canada's military does good works is 'ego', and the money is better spent elsewhere huh? Pull your head out of your ass.

Your comments are nothing more than oversimplifications or plain ignorant drivel. Facts are, you have no idea what it is a Canadian troop does as part of his or her job description. You seem to blend CBC reports and American war movies together in your mind and conclude that anyone who supports the military supports some unspecified thing called "war" - nevermind that you're talking to people who have been there, done that, and are speaking from experience.
 KarmaTiger
Joined: 3/9/2007
Msg: 91
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History
Canadian Military
Posted: 4/27/2007 5:08:52 AM
I've read Chomsky.

As to Afghanistan, they provided land for the Taliban to train. The Taliban, BTW, is a Pakistani organization that took over Afghanistan after the Soviets left. We went in, removed their terrorist-friendly regime, and helped Afghanis put in an Afghani government.

But you'd rather spin "all military is evil" crap and not pay attention to facts - while conveniently ignoring, as you spin your fairytales about the Canadian Forces, that you're talking to people who have served in or are serving in those very uniforms you choose to spit on.
 KarmaTiger
Joined: 3/9/2007
Msg: 92
view profile
History
Canadian Military
Posted: 4/27/2007 5:12:08 AM
^since I can't edit, I'll add: your analogies to Czech and Poland are inflamatory and deeply flawed. Canada left the Taliban alone until the organization they backed attacked one of our allies, killing thousands. So your 'point' is pointless.

And why would you presume that because I'm actually aware of what Canada's military does, instead of posting ultraleftist propeganda as you seem fond of, that I must then somehow be a FOx news watching Bush supporter? Another gross oversimplification on your part. The world is far more complex than you seem capable of conprehending.
 KarmaTiger
Joined: 3/9/2007
Msg: 95
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History
Canadian Military
Posted: 4/27/2007 9:22:43 PM
My 'house of cards' eh? Implies having been there, served in the CF, have family living in the middle east, etc. is a 'house of cards' compared to armchair commentators who invoke the names of American journalists as though books on American hedgemony somehow have anything to do with the Canadian Military.

You wanna talk house of cards? Some of you aren't even playing with a full deck.
 KarmaTiger
Joined: 3/9/2007
Msg: 96
view profile
History
Canadian Military
Posted: 4/27/2007 9:25:55 PM

If anyone thinks we are in a third world, dirt poor country namely afganistan, other than operating as a security force for an obviously strategic military and oil transport region, they have been brainwashed. We should leave them poor bactards alone so they get on with their lives.


...which is exactly what we're doing. You think 'their lives' included Pakistani extremists running their country, outlawing half their culture in the name of extreme fundamentalist islam, denying females education or basic rights, etc? We removed an occupying force and are sticking around to maintain order while their home-grown government gets back on its feet - and you guys are acting like Canadians, not the Taliban, are the bad guys. Give me a break.
 passionteman
Joined: 3/7/2005
Msg: 102
Canadian Military
Posted: 5/3/2007 3:53:54 PM

You actually believe this don't you passionteman

If you don't yet know who was responsible for the 911 attacks then there's no point in anybody explaining it to you now.


That's what you believe based on watching Fox and CNN. Everyone doesn't go with that bs.


Have you ever heard of an organization called NATO ?
You know....the North Atlantic Treaty Organization which all it's members are committed to defending each other if one is attacked


Yes. I do know that, but their getting involved is totally illegitimate since there is no proper evidence .


When the U.S. was attacked on 911 this triggered an automatic NATO response which would explain why there are German, Dutch, Polish, Italian, British, American, Canadian and other troops in Afganistan.


hahaha. US was attacked!!!. lol.
 MacGregrrrr
Joined: 3/13/2006
Msg: 110
view profile
History
Canadian Military
Posted: 7/14/2007 2:27:24 PM
I always chuckle at anti-military thinking (kinda like saying "let's get rid of firefighters, and there'll be no more fires" ... sheeyah, right ...) - and then, we have the conspiracy theories ... hmmm ... hope they never find out we actually kept all those U-boats running, and we've got underground canals to Roswell ... but ... I digress ...

And so ... where does that leave us?

As said elsewhere - Yup - I'm sick and tired of intolerance and hatred, whether racial or religious. Undoubtably, the root of all evil is ignorance (and lack of education) - once you learn more about others, they cease to be strangers/infidels/heathens ...

Unfortunately, some hatred runs so deep that it consumes the individual ... with the result that they can not be "cured" by rational, logic, reason or persuasion ...

Thus, as much as people bemoan the fact that there is too much hatred and violence in the world around us, I'm absolutely convinced that "turning the other cheek" only presents a soft target for those rabid few who misinterpret "live and let live" as a sign of weakness ...

Sum up? With all due respect, I'm afraid I've completely run out of time, patience and tolerance to put up with gutless, whinging armchair critics who betray the very men who die defending freedom.

"It is not the critic who counts: not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself for a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat."

-- Teddy; "Citizenship in a Republic", Speech at the Sorbonne, Paris, April 23, 1910

"Courage is rightly esteemed the first of human qualities, because it is the quality that guarantees all others"

- Sir Winston S. Churchill
 6july
Joined: 7/6/2007
Msg: 112
Canadian Military
Posted: 7/20/2007 1:59:26 PM
Lets get a little reality in this. It was two people involved out of over 500. The effect of the drug mefloquine had a big effect in what happened. Did you hear about the schools and hospitals that were built there? Did you hear about the constant theiving? As an soldier when this happened I was more upset by the government giving unapproved drugs to soldiers to see if they work, politicians beating their chests at being caught giving orders to cover it up (no it was not just some of the top officers covering it up) and civies that give lip service when someone dies but are the first to say hang them when someone breaks the image of what we are. Soldiers are drawn from society and therefore reflect society. Try reading Kipplings poem "Tommy" that is how society treats soldiers.

As for the Airborne being honourable I know alot of ex members of the airborne both dead and alife. I would trust my life and my families lifes to them anyday.
 Montreal_Guy
Joined: 3/8/2004
Msg: 122
view profile
History
Canadian Military
Posted: 9/13/2007 5:43:38 AM
I think both militaries have unique talents and abilities. Both have certainly proven that to the world countless times. Even together, in that combined group of WW2 American/Canadian commandos , those talents complimented each other very well.

Both also share the brotherhood of a bond forged with blood, and mutual respect.

For any of us to point fingers at each other, and disparage the other, lessens us both.

All the posts and e-mails I read from our Forces overseas show a respect for American troops. The only one I read that wasn't 100 percent positive is when some Canadian troops were invited to a "steak and lobster" dinner by their American counterparts in Afghanistan at the base they shared.

The steak was ok, but the "lobster" was pasta with some shrimp mixed into it.

On the other hand, the Americans also had some visiting cheerleaders (Dallas Cowboys ?) there ....so let's say they more than made up for the "lobster" many times over.

Put them both together in the field in a combined operation, and you'll be hard pressed to beat THAT team in almost any situation.
 kev_bro
Joined: 1/25/2009
Msg: 123
Canadian Military
Posted: 6/28/2009 4:00:26 PM
I love the military system. I almost signed up just recently and probably will shortly, i haven't decided if i want to go infantry or keep my job as a electrician or do that in the military..
 Drew178
Joined: 4/20/2009
Msg: 124
Canadian Military
Posted: 6/28/2009 6:47:04 PM
If I had to do it all over again I'd go Engineer. You're either building something or blowing it up.
 kev_bro
Joined: 1/25/2009
Msg: 125
Canadian Military
Posted: 7/1/2009 6:37:33 PM
I think its an awsome career choice, pretty decent pay, stay in shape, travel, learn things you would never learn anywhere else. I just need to get my ass in shape now and im in
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