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Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 112
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Female Circumcision, Right or Wrong?Page 8 of 9    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9)
I was speaking with an Arabic woman a number of years ago about this issue. Her mother was circumcized, she and her daughter, now in Canada, are not. She said the practice is now largely limited to the villages and uneduacated people and that change is not as simple or as straight forward as westerners would like to think it is. In some places, leaving your daughter uncircumcized means relegating her as permanently unmarriageable... which is catastropic for her as well, sometimes, her family. I am glad I am not a village parent faced with that sort of a decision.
Joined: 6/30/2007
Msg: 114
Female Circumcision, Right or Wrong?
Posted: 8/12/2007 7:28:40 PM
Female circumcision isn't the same thing as Male Circumcision. In fact, there really is no such thing as female circumcision. When people perform what they claim is female circumcision, they are really just butchering a fellow human being. The act has no scriptural support and is basically a form of barbarism and horrific abuse of another human being. That is all it is and it is all it will ever be...
Joined: 8/28/2005
Msg: 117
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Female Circumcision, Right or Wrong?
Posted: 8/14/2007 10:36:42 PM
It's WRONG WRONG WRONG! That's just a horrible and sick thing to do to a woman, I can't believe anyone would be accepting of this practice.
Joined: 6/17/2006
Msg: 119
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Friendly DANE
Posted: 8/14/2007 11:43:40 PM
Somebody already mentioned it but I'll jump in again. FGM is NOT NOT NOT the same as male circumcision.


Have you READ any of the posts describing the four levels of the "procedure" ??

To compare them as somehow equal or similar is ... I'm not allowed to say.

Picture a man going in for a vasectomy and instead of a tiny incision he's attacked by a gang of religious freaks with a chain saw. What's left of the area where his penis and testicles ONCE were is cauterized shut by a red hot poker so he doesn't bleed to death. Moist camel dung is pressed into the area to "cleanse" it.

OK, is THAT the same as the vasectomies you've read about? No, huh?

PROPER male circumcision apparently reduces the ability to introduce various bacteria and viruses into the vagina (does va gin aaaa get asterisked out of existence in here still??) later in life.

FEMALE circumcision makes sex painful forever, makes childbirth often a fatality event (all the scar tissue rips instead of stretching) and there is a large % of women who die of infections soon after the procedure.

Comparing the two procedures is utterly devoid of logic or knowledge.
Joined: 7/2/2007
Msg: 123
Female Circumcision, Right or Wrong?
Posted: 10/25/2007 5:53:05 PM
OK let me put 2 cents worth in. A man that has foreskin has a lot of cleaning he has to do. Guys that get infections comes from not keeping Mr. Clean. The male having this done is at childhood because of several things...the nerves have not fully developed they are stilling hurts babies scream but only for a few minutes. I have a relative that had it done to him when he was in his 20's...he said the pain was beyond bad and then there is the problem of getting an erection(which he did) with stiches in Mr. Happy and guess what(get a hard on and those stiches pop out like popcorn popping) he had to go to the emergency room because he was bleeding so bad....they gave him something to keep it from getting erect again. My ex was a nurse(home health) and she told the stories of old men with foreskin and that had to be cleaned out with a Q-Tip and how nasty it was each time(alot of these guys were bed bound unable to help themself...but they were doing nothing and it was getting unclean so imagine some guy poking half the state and not cleaning the area out and then sticking it in another female.

Now for females overseas this is a common thought ...she would be faithful to her husband no matter how much of a pig he was! A large part is religious BS that she is a demon or something bad if this is not done(over there females are property not a partner) they still have fixed marriages...she marries who has the most cows or something of value for the father. To take away one area of a womans pleasure to me this is the evil thoughts of the world. We think good/evil....nothing good comes from this. The surgery that was talked about is 2 things is making her a virgin again with making the skin grow to gether so the new man in her life can pop it(big deal but people are weak) ....the second is to tighten up that ****...after a kid is born sorry ladies no man has the guts to say this but it is never the same after are pushing a 5 pound bag of sugar thru it to give you an idea of how big it rips too. The ones that have had this done (surgery to tighten it up) every one involved have said it is like night and day brings the tightness and firmness back to before baby not the after baby result. So saying having a womans clit cut off for any reason is kinda lame I would reread that story I think you got it mixed up with what I just stated. Now the lips on some women do get in the way and they can trim them back to a normal appreance but it hurts like hell healing....but some women have to because their lips hang down to low and get rubbed raw from walking.
Joined: 9/5/2007
Msg: 126
Female Circumcision, Right or Wrong?
Posted: 10/25/2007 6:37:22 PM
Cant be pleasurable for her? That is an understatement. Let's look at how this is done shall we?

Female genital mutilation (FGM), often referred to as 'female circumcision', comprises all procedures involving partial or total removal of the external female genitalia or other injury to the female genital organs whether for cultural, religious or other non-therapeutic reasons. There are different types of female genital mutilation known to be practised today. They include:

Type I - excision of the prepuce, with or without excision of part or all of the clitoris;
Type II - excision of the clitoris with partial or total excision of the labia minora;
Type III - excision of part or all of the external genitalia and stitching/narrowing of the vaginal opening (infibulation);
Type IV - pricking, piercing or incising of the clitoris and/or labia; stretching of the clitoris and/or labia; cauterization by burning of the clitoris and surrounding tissue;
scraping of tissue surrounding the vaginal orifice (angurya cuts) or cutting of the vagina (gishiri cuts);
introduction of corrosive substances or herbs into the vagina to cause bleeding or for the purpose of tightening or narrowing it; and any other procedure that falls under the definition given above. The most common type of female genital mutilation is excision of the clitoris and the labia minora, accounting for up to 80% of all cases; the most extreme form is infibulation, which constitutes about 15% of all procedures.

Now let's look at the health consequences.

The immediate and long-term health consequences of female genital mutilation vary according to the type and severity of the procedure performed.

Immediate complications include severe pain, shock, haemorrhage, urine retention, ulceration of the genital region and injury to adjacent tissue. Haemorrhage and infection can cause death.

More recently, concern has arisen about possible transmission of the human immunodeficiency virus (HIV) due to the use of one instrument in multiple operations, but this has not been the subject of detailed research.

Long-term consequences include cysts and abscesses, keloid scar formation, damage to the urethra resulting in urinary incontinence, dyspareunia (painful sexual intercourse) and sexual dysfunction and difficulties with childbirth.

Psychosexual and psychological health: Genital mutilation may leave a lasting mark on the life and mind of the woman who has undergone it. In the longer term, women may suffer feelings of incompleteness, anxiety and depression.

And finally, lets look at reasons for such acts.

In cultures where it is an accepted norm, female genital mutilation is practiced by followers of all religious beliefs as well as animists and non believers. FGM is usually performed by a traditional practitioner with crude instruments and without anaesthetic. Among the more affluent in society it may be performed in a health care facility by qualified health personnel. WHO is opposed to medicalization of all the types of female genital mutilation.

The age at which female genital mutilation is performed varies from area to area. It is performed on infants a few days old, female children and adolescents and, occasionally, on mature women.

The reasons given by families for having FGM performed include:

psychosexual reasons: reduction or elimination of the sensitive tissue of the outer genitalia, particularly the clitoris, in order to attenuate sexual desire in the female, maintain chastity and virginity before marriage and fidelity during marriage, and increase male sexual pleasure;
sociological reasons: identification with the cultural heritage, initiation of girls into womanhood, social integration and the maintenance of social cohesion;
hygiene and aesthetic reasons: the external female genitalia are considered dirty and unsightly and are to be removed to promote hygiene and provide aesthetic appeal;
myths: enhancement of fertility and promotion of child survival;
religious reasons: Some Muslim communities, however, practise FGM in the belief that it is demanded by the Islamic faith. The practice, however, predates Islam.

Now, with that said. Do I trivalize male circumsion while making a big whoopty-do out of female? Let me answer this way. Do you guys have parts of your body cut off, burnt with fire or chemicals, or sewn shut? The answer is no. So, I see no resemblence between a male circumsion and a female mutilation. Think before you speak!

Do I think this is wrong? YES YES YES YES! I do not care if it is cultural! Let the men be mutilated the same as the women! Then things would change.
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 132
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Female Circumcision, Right or Wrong?
Posted: 10/25/2007 7:46:14 PM

The medical facts here are that a woman having the hood over her clit is the exact same thing as a man being circumcised

Both "useless bits of skin" are the ONLY part of each genders anatomy that produces antisceptic smegma, which is a natural germ killing agent

Both are designed to protect an area of the body that has unique nerve endings that can only sense pleasure. On the woman thats the clitoris, and on the man its something called the corona which is located just behind the glands

Cunning Linguist... would love it if I'm wrong here; my understanding is the majority of female circumcisions performed involve removing all or most of the clit. If this is the case, it is not an equivilent procedure as male circumcision (a practice I'd also like to see eliminated).
Joined: 9/28/2007
Msg: 141
Many anthropologists have studied groups that practice female circumcision.. and find no problem
Posted: 10/26/2007 4:36:35 PM
In Canada, female genital cutting, or mutilation, is illegal under child protection acts. While as a multicultural country, we welcome many aspects of newcomers' cultures, we also have to protect the children who live here. FGM can cause hemorrhage and the spread of infections like HIV because often a group of girls are all cut with the same instrument. For girls who are infibulated, it causes menstrual problems because the opening is small and clots cannot pass; they have to be "opened" when they marry; they have to be cut when they give birth and many of their babies die along with the mother who does not have the care she needs to deliver.

People in countries where various forms are practised have enlisted the help of religious leaders to put a stop to it. Western women learned back in the '70s that we had to butt out and only give support when we were asked. Here in North America, we will protect the children and women who live here under our laws.
Joined: 7/28/2007
Msg: 148
Female Circumcision, Right or Wrong?
Posted: 10/27/2007 12:24:39 PM
Generally we hear talk of this recently regarding the horrific. Those who have not heard that, think of female circumcision as simple removal of the hood, most likely for sexualy pleasures.

I think there is a general misunderstanding between the two on what a female circumcision is or can be, to begin with.

The issue is partly in the degree or severity. Are you talking about removal of the hood to allow the clitoris to be completely exposed, there is been more mention of this in the literature to do with lesbians and seeking it done for sexual pleasure. This would be what people generally think of as female circumcision, being that it is similar to that which is the same as a man, wherein the hood is removed. Some women claim this is very arousing and they feel more sexual than before because of the clitoris getting more stimulation.

Others say it is too intense after. I've heard this has been more common in recent years with certain groups of women at plastic surgeons. Personally, in this form, I'm all for it, as long as it is done professionally, gives the woman more pleasure and does not make her uncomfortable. I don't mind if she is somewhat uncomfortable by the procedure, because lets face it, any guy knows what it is like especially in high school, where you are constantly in a state of stimulation, or so it seems. So in that case you just have to get used to it and deal with it. Hopefully in a way that will include a partner and you can both have more fun with it more often.

In the traditional case, it is removing, or simply mutilating the female so she lacks those parts that make it pleasurable for her which can include removing the labia, minora and majora. There can be compensation in making other erogenous zones more intense and where they can lead to orgasm but it is little reported regarding this. It is not atypical however, in the case of war victims who lost access or feeling in their genitals where stimulating other areas can lead to climax.

So, I think we need to realize that this term is not only referring to a bad procedure. Mostly occurring in countries like Africa where it is done as part of a ritual, mostly for the subjugation of women, or for the later pleasure of their husband, it can be badly botched even leading to disfigurement or death. That has to stop. These are people that need to be educated, the Star Trek universe's "prime directive" of non interference, be damned if you ask me.

However, if a woman desires for her hood to be removed, that is her business alone and more power to her.
Wikipedia has more information on the negative aspects of female genital surgery:
and for more pleasant information:
Joined: 12/13/2006
Msg: 149
Female Circumcision, Right or Wrong?
Posted: 10/27/2007 12:51:22 PM

Many anthropologists have studied groups that practice female circumcision indepth, and find no problem with it whatsoever. It in most cases does more good than it does harm. (prevents overpopulation, keeps women 'in their place' so to speak, etc.)

lostinyou, tell you what: when you step up to the plate to have *your* clitoris removed with a piece of broken glass, and then to have your vagina sewn shut, I'll actually listen to your argument.

In China, there was foot binding -- and the mothers and grandmothers did it. Do you know what it involves? You take and break the foot, and then fold all the toes except the big toe under. Then you pull the front of the foot towards the heel. If that's not working well, you rub ground glass into the arch of the foot, causing gangrene, so you can scoop out the rotted flesh, and that allows the toes to be pushed further back towards the heel. Then you cover this mess with white bandages and little lace booties. You start on four year old girls. It's not finished till they're about twelve. It can never be undone. The ideal foot is 3 to 4 inches ~~ and looks "Like an angel's eyebrow." GAG. The Chinese government tried for thirty years to end the practice. The mothers would not quit. They felt no man would marry a daughter with large feet. You know what finally ended it? Education. The government finally educated enough women that they stopped on their own. That, of course, didn't happen on the mainland till after Liberation. I knew women there younger than me with bound feet. . . .

So I'm going to be as *ethnocentric* as I choose, thank you very much.

And no, I don't believe in circumcising baby boys, either.
Joined: 8/27/2007
Msg: 151
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Female Circumcision, Right or Wrong?
Posted: 10/27/2007 2:59:25 PM
Male and female circumcision is child sexual abuse

I don't give a flyin' fvck what anyone else wants to call it..I don't support rippin' out people's hearts either though it was done for a looooong time by the Azteks

It's sexual abuse, pure and simple.. no one has the right to mess with/mutilate or"alter" another persons genitals just because they are a child.

And I don't give a flyin' fvck what the reasons are...unless it is a medical neccesity it is barbaric, cruel and inhumane.

Sorry but child abuse is my biggest pet peeve...and when you add misogyny to it, well I just lose it.

When I had my daughter I heard an infant boy being circumcised down the hall... I would have killed that doctor had it been my child who screamed in pain like that...what, not even a week old? And we have to abuse them? Actually I probably would have held the doc down and "circumcised" him with a scalpel and no painkillers. Barbarians.
Joined: 12/29/2006
Msg: 170
Female Circumcision, Right or Wrong?
Posted: 10/29/2007 12:00:15 PM
Murder ,war, terror,hell drive by shootings prevent overpopulation .....wife beating and spousal imprisonment ,hell any kind of domestic abuse keeps women in their place .or all of these have been stated as justification for such.... as for anyone that wants to mutilate themselves more power to them ... but to do it to a child .. im not going to condone or justify it ... now for little boys this is not a biggie ... i was circumcised and have no problem with it .. i have a cousin who was not and he had many problems with medical and infections because of it and decided to have it done as a young adult .. seys it was a good decision and wishes it had been done when he was a baby ... and his decision to have it done had nothing to do with religion
Joined: 11/1/2006
Msg: 176
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Female Circumcision, Right or Wrong?
Posted: 10/29/2007 5:18:13 PM
Cunning... I'm not quite following maybe, but are you saying that you think that it's hypocritical for someone to be particularly interested in the welfare of one group over another? That's not what it means, you know. Why not allow for some people to be particularly moved by the plight of girls while others are particularly moved by the plight of boys? You can be moved by humans and encourage others to feel the same... some will be moved by puppies. It isn't hypocritical to focus on a particular group's problems while paying less attention to others.
Joined: 9/24/2007
Msg: 179
Female Circumcision, Right or Wrong?
Posted: 10/29/2007 5:52:03 PM

Did they have some other practice where people IRON little girls breast so that they wont grow big. SOmeone recently did this, i read it in the paper.

That is in parts of africa where they are worried about the girls growing up, the minute a girl becomes "a big girl" she is out of school and into the bed of a local.. as weird as it sounds it is to try to get her a better education....

That whole continent is buggered
Joined: 11/1/2006
Msg: 181
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Female Circumcision, Right or Wrong?
Posted: 10/29/2007 6:07:18 PM
That on a personal level IS, IMO hipocrisy/double standards/sexism

Sexism (or any ism), can present as a specific kind of double standard and I can see that is very clear from what you have said. But you should probably look up hypocrisy.

I didn't need you to repeat everything you believe on the issue. I fundamentally agree with you. But don't you think that maybe you
overreact a little to the fact that some people are more concerned about female circumcision than male? People have different pet projects. And, in fact, I think it's good that such a big deal is made about female circumcision because it brings the barbarism of all circumcision to the fore.

I think the abhorrence of the more severe forms of female circumcision have really made it more appropriate to discuss all forms. It's just too bad that it took the discovery of that kind degree of cruelty by the west to recognize it's all cruel. There's a name for that (a situation where you see something grotesque in others and it reveals it in yourselves). I just can't remember what it is.

Joined: 11/1/2006
Msg: 183
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Female Circumcision, Right or Wrong?
Posted: 10/29/2007 6:28:14 PM
so now you have to look up overreact... which you seemed to interpret as any reaction.

And your accusation of hypocrisy doesn't make it true. If you generalize to all circumcision you're right. But in accusing hypocrisy you're deciding to generalize for others. Congratulations on that...
Joined: 8/9/2005
Msg: 194
Female Circumcision, Right or Wrong?
Posted: 10/30/2007 9:16:41 PM
Sadly, what is commonly referred to as "Female Circumcision" is a horrible mutilation/destruction of the clitoris. It is a crime against nature and anyone who performs it should be killed.
There are rare circumstances where a woman's clitoral hood prevents her form achieving clitoral orgasm. In those cases I think it would be acceptable to trim back the hood to allow for more direct stimulation...if she chooses.
Joined: 10/2/2007
Msg: 198
Female Circumcision, Right or Wrong?
Posted: 10/31/2007 9:20:13 AM
Female circumcision is wrong.

Theres nothing wrong with female circumcision if the woman decides to do it.

Its her body, its her choice.

It is usually performed on little girls before they hit puberty and it is by no means a "woman's choice". The "it's her body, her choice" argument doesn't apply here, sorry geekgamegirl; not in the vast majority of female circumcisions. Many of these girls bleed and suffer to death from infections. There is no aenesthesia involved, the surgical instruments are quite crude and certainly not sterile. The cultural practice continues because the woman's virginity must be guaranteed before marriage. When the girl does have intercourse the first time, her husband must puncture through whatever was sewed up and left on. Often there is an infection that had built up in the vagina from before. The woman's monthly period also has nowhere to go during menstruation (agian, this may somewhat vary depending on how the woman was sewed together). If the woman manages to get pregnant- labour- well you can imagine. In addition, during the practice the woman's clitoris is usually modified so that the woman cannot get an orgasm from its stimulation (if it's not removed entirely). Essentially, any prospect of having sex or enjoying sex is minimized in these women to ensure that they only have sex with their husbands. The culture portrays it in such a way that being pure and clean is beautiful and so that helps justify the procedures, which from our point of view is torturous- although they do see virtue in it. The grandmothers and mothers of those communities are usually the ones who perform the surgery. The little girls are not given any choice about it.

I am open to different cultures and understand that they should be respected. But I think with a little education and medical advancement, these practices would appear archaic, cruel and unnecessary.
 TTC 2008
Joined: 8/14/2007
Msg: 199
Female Circumcision, Right or Wrong?
Posted: 10/31/2007 9:31:03 AM
Its ironic how two faced the feminist women are on here. They think its ok to mutilate a baby boy' s penis and circumcise him, but then when they circumcise some baby girl its all of the sudden a big deal. I say if as long as feminists on here think its ok to mutilate a baby boy then baby girls should be circumcised too. How's that for equal rights you two faced femiNAZI's
Joined: 10/2/2007
Msg: 200
Female Circumcision, Right or Wrong?
Posted: 10/31/2007 9:42:30 AM
Your comment action jax is a little ignorant. While I am not necessarily condoning male circumcision, I do dare say that it is markedly different from female circumcision. It's different in terms of what is involved, what is removed/ modified, how it is removed, the degree of pain involved, the risks for infection and death are very different and lastly why it is performed are different in the respective cultures. I think your "femiNAZI's" comments are unwarranted. Perhaps you might like to do a little bit of research on the topics before posting your thoughts. Although you attempt to make a valid point, your ignorance on the subject does not help to further your argument.
 TTC 2008
Joined: 8/14/2007
Msg: 201
Female Circumcision, Right or Wrong?
Posted: 10/31/2007 9:50:27 AM
Medical studies have proven long ago that male circumcision is not neccesary. There is risk for infection for male circumcision too. And how do you know that baby boy feels no pain during circumcision? Thats right you don't know so shut up you femiNAZI.
Joined: 6/5/2007
Msg: 209
Female Circumcision, Right or Wrong?
Posted: 11/1/2007 1:50:51 PM
Well ecaepydal, its obvious you are not a feminist like mlsaarln who thinks its perfectly ok to circumcise and hurt baby boys but if its baby girl its a crime. I can't two faced people like her.
 TTC 2008
Joined: 8/14/2007
Msg: 217
Female Circumcision, Right or Wrong?
Posted: 11/20/2007 3:07:03 AM

aj grow some balls and post a pic so ppl can see the pubescent idiot your acting like. female mutilation is not a choice theses girls make in their teens. circumcision of males at birth is in no way comparble.babaric yes. necesary? prob not. do males " suffer" later in years? i haven't. girls brutalized in teens? what do you think?

I got balls dude, but yours were obviously snipped off during your circumcision. You said "female mutilation is not a choice theses girls make in their teens". Well I am guessing here, but I suspect male mutilation of a baby boys is not a choice these boys made either at birth. And to these feminists that think its ok to mutilate a baby boy but not a girl, I say screw you. How do you know the baby boy feels no pain, do you have a penis? No you don't so shut up. If you consider it acceptable to mutilate a baby boy's penis, but its not ok to do the same to a girls, then you are nothing but a hypocrite.
 TTC 2008
Joined: 8/14/2007
Msg: 219
Female Circumcision, Right or Wrong?
Posted: 11/20/2007 6:44:41 AM

^ I've read a few reports that say that male circumcision isn't necessary at this point.... so I would agree with your earlier post.... however you went about the argument in entirely the wrong way.

I AM curious as to how they know that the baby doesn't feel anything. Maybe I'll research it later...

Thanks for your reply and yes I probably went about it the wrong way, but I get tired of hearing the two faced people on here posting nonsense like its somehow ok to mutilate baby boys but if you do the same to a baby girl its now a big deal. I can't stand hypocrites.
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