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Joined: 3/25/2007
Msg: 20
Mohawks protest land claims by blocking railwaysPage 3 of 3    (1, 2, 3)

I’m not sure exactly the underlying issues with this “ rotational economic disruption campaign” since they were granted this land in 1793, a claim filed in 1995 and accepted valid in 2003.
It would appear the dispute at hand is regarding the illegal dumping of toxic materials in the quarry, the Ministry of Natural Resources ignoring the issues and profiting by the aggregates being removed from the aboriginal land.
I think the timing is quit interesting that it comes in response to a developers plan to build Condominiums using the materials from the quarry.
I guess time will tell and all the relevant issues will be discussed.
This demonstration is just part of the disruption, two other locations are slated to be disrupted; one is the Town of Deseronto and the Provincial Highway!
It will be interesting to see how it all unfolds
OUTSTANDING!!!! Someone has actually delved deep enough into the issues. I'd be interested to know who the actual developers are - Mohawk or other? There are a lot of very creative and successfull entrepreneurs from this Mohawk Band. If this same scenario were to take place outside of a First Nations domain and had different players involved, would the actions taken by these few to create these dissruptions still be looked at and treated the same way? I think not. Safe to say there would be intervention and charges filed. Do we as a nation condon this apparent application of a double standard of the law?
FWIW, the Mohawk peoples are not the only ones against these "dumpings". Other locals not part of the Mohawks are against this as well yet I don't see them initiating similar actions. Perhaps because they realize the possible consequences of such actions.
Joined: 3/25/2007
Msg: 21
Mohawks protest land claims by blocking railways
Posted: 4/27/2007 3:32:03 PM

i say "go Mohawks"
Can you say Oka??
Joined: 1/8/2007
Msg: 23
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Mohawks protest land claims by blocking railways
Posted: 5/9/2007 11:36:46 AM
Well, as of todays news, looks like they've got themselves some of that economic disruption coming back to them.

CNR has launched a civil suit for damages. I can only guarantee one thng about this, CNR has a lot more, in the way of lawyers and money, than do the Mohawks.

Life is like a Jalapeno pepper....what you do today will come back to burn your butt tomorrow!
Joined: 1/8/2007
Msg: 30
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Mohawks protest land claims by blocking railways
Posted: 5/12/2007 7:39:55 PM for me ....if the shoe fits and all of that good stuff!

No one was arguing here, and, the story still has legs, as they say in the biz....

For the record, I agree that the land claims should have been settled ages ago.and, the great scams that were perpetrated upon the aboriginals were wrong.

Still, two wrongs do not a right, make! Targeting CNR or any other completely uninvolved third party, makes little sense.

People have displaced other people from their ancestral homes throughout all of history in every land on earth.

Should we, for the sake of agument, pick a certain time in history where all borders and lands should be rolled back to where they were at that time? How about the 12th century, or the 8th? Still...the disputes will continue.

As the saying goes, you can't roll back the clock! However, there have to be more productive ways of moving forward than this!

my 2 cents.
Joined: 4/6/2007
Msg: 32
Mohawks protest land claims by blocking railways
Posted: 7/8/2007 4:32:42 PM
the native americans say they were on this land first and driven off by the white man, well im sorry,but, the way i was brought up and the way it is today, adam and eve were on this land first, does anyone really know the truth?? i think not, give the indians their land back,but, as far as hunting goes they should hunt the way it was before, no guns, no cross bows, just a bow and arrow, just like they want, the way it was before
 Beautiful Deviant
Joined: 6/1/2006
Msg: 33
Mohawks protest land claims by blocking railways
Posted: 7/8/2007 5:21:39 PM
You're going to want to check on your biblical history and geography...Adam and Eve were in the Garden of Eden...that was in the Middle East near Mesopotamia...the Jews believe the location is Jerusalum.

The ancient civilizations of North America were here at the same time as those in the bible. They have different creation stories and different beliefs. Catholicism and Christianity were brought here with the Europeans that arrived just over 500 years ago.

You might wish to inform yourself to the history of the Americas pre-invasion.

As to your hunting statement, how naive to believe that the natives were not advanced and would not have advanced without European intervention. It was the natives that saved those first non-natives that arrived here because of their knowledge of agriculture, hunting, astronomy, seasons, plants, animals and medicine.

We will never know what the natives of North America and South America might have been without the disruption...we might as well not even speculate.

 Jim in NB
Joined: 8/2/2006
Msg: 38
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Mohawks protest land claims by blocking railways
Posted: 8/2/2007 3:32:21 PM
Hard to beleive some of the posts on this thread - there was no won and lost - Natives and Europeans made treaties to live and grow together. There are a multitude of examples of how we both helped each other. We must all live up to letter and the spirit of these treaties. And we will - hopefully the momentum gained in resolving these issues continues to gain speed.

As for all the comments about hunting with bows and arrows, residental schools, problems adapting to parts of each others cultures, and all those other issues that are outside of the treaties - society grows over time and things change. Some of the more problematic issues have to be addressed and even compensating for - residental schools is a good example. We as a society working together have to realize that we should not be focussing on past issues but looking forward to future issues - and a big one is how natives can become more fully ingrained in Canadian society without loosing their heritage. Reserves are part of this issue - and it must be looked at from all points of the compass - whether the reserve is seen as a place to get away from the rush of modern urban society, a land base to work from and on and profit from, or whether reserves are actually holding back natives from becoming full beneficiaries of modern Canadian society. Big issue here and I sure don't have all the answers - heck I don't even have all the questions.

As for the day of protest in June. Having lived in Ontario, North Ontario, Saskatchewan and now New Brunswick and seen how in many places treaties have been ignored and native rights have been walked all over on - I am really suprised how mild the protests across Canada were.
Joined: 4/26/2007
Msg: 39
Mohawks protest land claims by blocking railways
Posted: 8/3/2007 7:35:26 AM
Do I put my two cents in here.....

I live maybe 5 minutes from the Mohawk reservation and have been following the story closely. I myself can get status but because I no very little about but here are some facts:

The Mohawks are trying to get land back that is theirs plane and simple. The government made them an offer that was something that you may have offered back in the 1800’s but like someone said we are living in 2007. If the land was NOT the Mohawks the government would not have tried to attempt to make any offer or any deal for that matter!
Now the OP asked the question about the railway. For one the Railway cuts throw the Reservation it is actually on Mohawk land and takes up a fair amount of their land. The same goes for the number 2 highway it cuts directly throw the land. Maybe someone should have taken this into consideration when building both. You no the Canadians that run the country…lol So yes they will more then likely make a stake on this land so as for interrupting service for the railroad it is a lucking thing they are not charging them rent just to use that portion of their land. But I could be wrong I have not seen the actual land deed to see if these two huge chunks of land where exempt from the treaty.
Some facts to think about that are really disturbing to me being that I am Canadian and I am a proud Canadian but I also have native running in my blood and proud of that as well. But in the early 50’s and 60’s anyone can Google it and learn a little of the history surrounding the native people. We Canadian did tests and studies on the natives that where cruel and deadly. We denied them for many years to learn their culture and that is why today there are fewer Natives that actually speak their native tongue. But we Canadian denied them that!
My Great Great Grandfather had to give up his rights as a Native to work for the rail way because they would not allow someone with native statics to work on the rails this is what they call Enfranchis. Anyone whom wanted to live or work off of the reserve had to give up their status or they would not be allowed this was the Governments way of abolishing the Native people. Back in the day food and work was scarce so in order to feed their families Native men would work off the reservation to provide for their families. If Native women wanted to open a shop up in town they too would have to give up their rights. It is not that the native people where stupid they did not have the education or the means to provide off the small chunks of land they where given so they had to find other resources. Should they have been stripped away their rights NO!
It is estimated that between 6,000 to 40,000 Canadian Indians entered the war the world war. When the Native people did this not just men but Native women working as nurses helping our Canadian soldiers where also stripped of their rights.
My entire point is hmmm should they disrupt service on the railway should they be able to blockade for something they believe in. From my perspective I think they should with dignity but the government has proven over hundreds of years that all they have been trying to do is eliminate Aboriginal people.

But that is just my two cents.
Joined: 7/16/2007
Msg: 40
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Mohawks protest land claims by blocking railways
Posted: 8/3/2007 9:56:46 AM
I find it interesting that the protests in Caledonia didn't start until the housing development was almost completed. Free houses anyone?
Joined: 4/8/2007
Msg: 41
Mohawks protest land claims by blocking railways
Posted: 8/27/2007 1:55:07 AM
First off lets clear a couple things up right off, An Empire does not make treaties with its own Subjects, Treaties are made between Sovereign Nations. Won, lost ? First Nations People in Canada were not conquered, rounded up and placed on reservations.

There was no war between Natives and Canadians ? or do you mean British. People just don t understand the History or Relationship between Natives and the British Empire in Kanata (Canada).

Treaties and Land agreements were made between Natives and the British Empire and re affirmed in the Canadian Constitution Act of 1982 in the Charter of Rights and Freedoms Part 2 Section 35. Read it! its very interesting.

The Culbertson Tract in Deseronto has been accepted as a valid claim the only thing left to resolve is a settlement (returning of the tract of land or compensation) Halting building or extracting of Natural resources from a Valid land claim site should have happened immediately after being deemed valid and until a resolution has been reached.
Joined: 4/11/2009
Msg: 42
Mohawks protest land claims by blocking railways
Posted: 7/21/2009 6:32:09 PM
Wow....the lack of respect for our first nations peoples is appalling. Yes, we were born in Canada and yes we all live together. The Mohawks are the keepers of the fire. They are honouring a way of living that we really have no clue about. We should be educated. When the first peoples of a nation shout out to be heard, I really think it is wise to listen. Maybe we can learn something.
Joined: 7/24/2008
Msg: 43
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Mohawks protest land claims by blocking railways
Posted: 7/23/2009 6:16:32 PM

When the first peoples of a nation shout out to be heard, I really think it is wise to listen.

Perhaps, but does that mean that the rest of us should accede to threats of violence or extortion that would land any other group in jail in short order?

Maybe we can learn something.

Maybe what we should learn is that segregation of people's and different assignment of rights and responsibilities based on ancestral heritage does not work. It creates and perpetuates ghettos. It's not as evil as apartheid, and in some aspects that separation has been beneficial to First Nations people, but in other aspects it has only perpetuated hardships.
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