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 aremeself
Joined: 12/31/2008
Msg: 6044
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Does God exist?Page 218 of 245    (205, 206, 207, 208, 209, 210, 211, 212, 213, 214, 215, 216, 217, 218, 219, 220, 221, 222, 223, 224, 225, 226, 227, 228, 229, 230, 231, 232, 233, 234, 235, 236, 237, 238, 239, 240, 241, 242, 243, 244, 245)
for and, ya.

not trying to be antagonistic, but are all of your beliefs tied 100% to proof?
evidence and proof are ALSO personal, agree?
or or do you 'jump' to conclusions at times?
 60to70
Joined: 7/28/2008
Msg: 6045
Does God exist?
Posted: 6/29/2011 12:25:47 AM
I do jump to conclusions. So...what??? Call 911..or just understand that conclusions are often valid.
 null_locus_accede
Joined: 6/25/2011
Msg: 6046
Does God exist?
Posted: 6/29/2011 12:27:02 AM
Creation is an act of self-loathing in perpetual denial.
Compelled to make a distinction so that one can be given favor over all others.
That must have hurt. Was it necessary.

This perspective is smart. It knows what it must be within, and how such a relationship must balance. But the perspective lacks confidence. It can't see past it's own end.
Does it know it is being referencing here?
Or has it made yet another distinction to bide its time with.
Perhaps it is afraid...

>Role-playing session *end*
 aremeself
Joined: 12/31/2008
Msg: 6048
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Does God exist?
Posted: 6/29/2011 12:53:06 AM
and yeah

but you do think, about issues like love etc.
 null_locus_accede
Joined: 6/25/2011
Msg: 6049
Does God exist?
Posted: 6/29/2011 1:00:09 AM
Love?
This has not been considered previously.
Perhaps it is lonely.
How is that possible.

>thinking...
 aremeself
Joined: 12/31/2008
Msg: 6051
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Does God exist?
Posted: 6/29/2011 1:08:14 AM
love, as an example, is also a choice, [might not be the worlds view though]
 aremeself
Joined: 12/31/2008
Msg: 6052
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Does God exist?
Posted: 6/29/2011 1:29:16 AM
everyone, without exception, believes in things they don't have 'evidence' for.

evidence is another big fat issue.
 null_locus_accede
Joined: 6/25/2011
Msg: 6053
Does God exist?
Posted: 6/29/2011 1:30:50 AM
Perhaps if it were a choice, then one would not seek antecedents which appear to adequately account for, and allow control of, the behavior in question.
Something is wrong.
Was it simply seeking a choice?
 aremeself
Joined: 12/31/2008
Msg: 6055
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Does God exist?
Posted: 6/29/2011 1:44:33 AM
some drunks, depending on their past history, [in put]can be more rational than others.
 aremeself
Joined: 12/31/2008
Msg: 6056
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Does God exist?
Posted: 6/29/2011 1:47:16 AM
some drunks, depending on their past history, [in put]can be more rational than others.
totally sober people make totally irrational decisions all the time.
 Tah,
Joined: 11/18/2008
Msg: 6058
Does God exist?
Posted: 6/29/2011 4:56:38 AM
Do you believe:

*there is life on other planets
Apprantly thats been proven

*Darwins theory of evolution
allthough not entirely incorrect it is known that he wrote that for political purposes (or at the very least encouraged) the british having lost the war of independance retaliated by banning slavery, now the british had to find other lands to rape and got darwin to write what he did to stop britian being labelled hypocrits with its invasion of what now is Australia...


*in global warming
proven, more importantly is this your christian god will save us agenda here?


*the universe has no begining and no end
nothing circular does

*Hawkins black hole theory
that will be proved

*Ozone depletion theory
proved again


if you believe in anything that cant yet be proven then why cant we believe in God?
 lyingcheat
Joined: 9/13/2009
Msg: 6059
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Does God exist?
Posted: 6/29/2011 6:18:36 AM

everyone, without exception, believes in things they don't have 'evidence' for.
evidence is another big fat issue.
/snip/
some drunks, depending on their past history, [in put]can be more rational than others.
totally sober people make totally irrational decisions all the time.

You seem to be suggesting that an absence of 'evidence' can be discounted as semi-irrelevant and that irrationality is a valid decision making tool, therefore irrational evidenceless conclusions are equally as worthwhile as rational decisions supported by evidence. So filling the evidenceless irrational vacuum with a deity is as worthy a conclusion as any other?

pfft! By that logic, you could fill your evidenceless irrational vacuum with anything you like, pixies, invisible dinosaurs, The Great Pumpkin, the primacy of Mohammed, 3 million Hindu gods, satan as the creator of the universe rather than some god... etc etc

All of these have no evidence to support them either and are as completely irrational as the implication that some 'christian' God exists - therefore they all might be true, or just one might be. Perhaps a non-christian one.

On the other hand, perhaps they're all as silly as they sound.

I'd be interested to know though, if you apply your irrational evidenceless method to all beliefs and possibilities? If you do, and in the interests of consistency, you'll have to concede the equal validity of, not only every deity ever invented, but also the possible truth of every foundationless crackpot idea ever thought of since they all will have a lack of evidence combined with irrational origins to recommend them.


if you believe in anything that cant yet be proven then why cant we believe in God?

You can if you like. But the quality of 'not yet being proven' isn't evidence in support of any particular belief, so the argument above applies to your logic as well.
If 'not yet being proven' confers potential validity, then the possibility that Zeus created some invisible pixies who created the universe as a toy to relieve their infinite boredom is just as likely as the possibility that Yahweh did it.

Take your pick. Every irrational, evidenceless, illogical idea is equally valid after all...
 TheLimey
Joined: 2/24/2008
Msg: 6060
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Does God exist?
Posted: 6/29/2011 9:00:29 AM

the british having lost the war of independance retaliated by banning slavery, now the british had to find other lands to rape and got darwin to write what he did to stop britian being labelled hypocrits with its invasion of what now is Australia...



Seriously? LMFAO!!!! Your tin foil hat appears to be restricting blood flow to your brain..
 inthroughtheoutdoor
Joined: 1/1/2011
Msg: 6061
Does God exist?
Posted: 6/29/2011 9:14:17 AM

Where does that put us in that continuum?


I'm not sure Krebby. Maybe Dawkins was mainly referring to the god of the bible when he came up with that scale? The thing with scales and labels is that they are limiting and I would think that very few people would fit in the narrow definition of any given label, specially when it comes to things like spirituality.

Personally, I dislike having to refer to myself as an atheist because it tells nothing about who I am as a person or what I may or may not "believe in", only that I don't believe in god(s). And because atheism is often misunderstood, (many) people will automatically attach other irrelevant labels on you - to add to the confusion, the word atheism itself seems to be under constant revision and different interpretations, often contradicting each other, can be found everywhere. And as if that wasn't enough, there are also different categories in which atheism falls under....hardcore, soft, medium, hard, easy over..um...sunny side-up anyone? :)

But I guess if I were to define my atheism, as opposed to having some self proclaimed know it all do it for me, I would call myself a de-facto atheist, which is no. 6 on Dawkins scale. It's the closest and simplest explanation regarding my position on the existence of god(s).

Going back to your question for a minute Krebby, I believe that it's up to you, no one else, to decide where you feel you are on the continuum. It doesn't matter what I or anyone else thinks and while I believe that providing a fair and accurate interpretation of our "beliefs" is of some importance in discussions such as this one, I think that a person should be taken at their word.

What I mean is...telling us that you believe in Spinoza's God for example, is sufficient for me. It shouldn't matter whether I agree or disagree with your definition of your particular belief or ideology, specially after you're provided us with plenty of examples and references and added your own personal interpretation - I get it and I respect both your position and the person behind it. Naturally, I always assumed that in return, I and others would be afforded the same courtesy. Guess I was wrong, not just about that but apparently about everything else also.
 ComplekCity
Joined: 1/17/2011
Msg: 6064
Does God exist?
Posted: 6/29/2011 9:31:02 AM
I have 2 questions for all you " experts " :

I don't belong to any particular religion but I do believe in a deeper intelligence/energy/whatever my limited comprehension can label it running the show...

...does that make me a " theist " ?

Where is the Universe ?
 inthroughtheoutdoor
Joined: 1/1/2011
Msg: 6067
Does God exist?
Posted: 6/29/2011 2:06:41 PM

I have 2 questions for all you " experts " :

I don't belong to any particular religion but I do believe in a deeper intelligence/energy/whatever my limited comprehension can label it running the show...

...does that make me a " theist " ?


I'm certainly not an expert, but here is my opinion. Believing in a higher intelligence or energy running the show means (IMO) that you are not an atheist. Theism, like atheism, comes in many flavors and to me, your beliefs seem closest to deism - see here for a brief overview: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theism

As for your second question, I'm afraid it's over my head. Anyway, hope this helps - best of luck on your journey:).
 ComplekCity
Joined: 1/17/2011
Msg: 6068
Does God exist?
Posted: 6/29/2011 2:12:06 PM
Thanks Led Zeppelin's last album, I appreciate you taking the time to answer my question !

I prefer to think there is only ONE ultimate energy in charge as opposed to polytheism where there is a God of weather, potato chips, etc .

But, how do I or anyone know for sure ? I don't, it's what I choose to believe.

In the grand scheme of things my comprehension is probably that of an ant or bacteria in comparison to more highly evolved beings in the universe !



 UnixGrand
Joined: 5/9/2011
Msg: 6077
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Does God exist?
Posted: 6/30/2011 4:34:51 AM
So Alan.... I would really like to hear your definition on Heaven, and Heavens. Both singular, and plural.
 ComplekCity
Joined: 1/17/2011
Msg: 6078
Does God exist?
Posted: 6/30/2011 8:19:46 AM
But to believe in a non defined non anything god that one has conceived aka MADE-UP aka INVENTED aka CREATED in their minds is nothing more than the workings of a delusional mind.



Maybe I'm misunderstanding what this means but by admitting that I couldn't possibly define what " God " is with my limited comprehension and because I believe that everything is being run/controlled by some sort of intelligence - THAT makes me delusional ??????
 ComplekCity
Joined: 1/17/2011
Msg: 6080
Does God exist?
Posted: 6/30/2011 11:13:28 AM

People can be extremely judgmental at times.


So true, myself included at times , sad but true.


I however just think you are being intellectually honest in stating that you do not know but have a feeling to one side.


Pretty much.


And to answer your earlier questions, yes you are a theist. A theist is one who has a belief in a supernatural force that either created or shapes the universe. As has been previously said, you probably fit the definition of deist best, but as also has previously been said, there is no point worry to much about definitions, it doesn’t mater what you call yourself as long as you are happy with your ideology.


I'm not worried, just curious.

Thanks !

 ComplekCity
Joined: 1/17/2011
Msg: 6082
Does God exist?
Posted: 6/30/2011 5:03:42 PM
A Theist believes that God exists. You mentioned a universal entity.


But I DO believe that "God" exists but I find that IF I refer to " God " as "God" then some people might assume I'm referring to a specific , definition of what "God " is
( such as the man in the sky with the white beard )


But, regarding this universe's space, where is this universe? Everywhere, of course.



We are INSIDE the Universe and so it is indeed everywhere around us but what is the Universe INSIDE ?
 60to70
Joined: 7/28/2008
Msg: 6083
Does God exist?
Posted: 6/30/2011 9:01:31 PM
We know whats inside the Universe....always have. But. How we choose to design the Universe is our very integral job and we fail...miserably. Free will and choice are important concepts because they are what you are given freely at birth. The external is beside the point. Not many validate the honour of free will and choice. And it has NOTHING to do with your income at birth. Even in the most miserable circumstances you have an ultimate choice. Live well, rebel well, choose wisely and do not accept b.s. for intelligence. At the end of this cycle...God waits. Or maybe popeye, or maybe leprauchans...nope...God.
 60to70
Joined: 7/28/2008
Msg: 6085
Does God exist?
Posted: 7/1/2011 12:47:37 AM
Magical shoes and diet pepsi are silly.
Free will and choices are the greatest gifts ever given. Even the worst of the poor have the free will and choice to deny and deny the ugliness of this imperfect and short sighted world.
Karma also leads to a belief in something greater than human beings. Thank god.
Does God exist???? If not....at least free will and choices do. Stuck with breathing and a sense of wonder. How much richer can anybody be!!!
 johncage21
Joined: 4/12/2011
Msg: 6088
Does GOD exist....
Posted: 7/3/2011 12:37:11 AM
As an atheist I'd like to thank you for calling out 'Atheists' on their bs. Afterall disproving God is a waste of time. Time better spent on better understanding the workings of the universe. However, I'd like to point out that while you are more then likely fair in you bashing of 'our' atheists (I haven't checked all the posts in htis thread), please keep in mind that, like theists, there are shades of 'atheism'. Not in the sense that some people sorta believe that God doesn't exist (if you feel that way you're an agnostic), but in the sense of how that belief shapes their actions.

Given my previous statement I will now state that there are other more reasonable explanations for the existence of both the universe and life. I therefore see no need to believe in supernatural entities to explain away our existence.
 60to70
Joined: 7/28/2008
Msg: 6089
Does GOD exist....
Posted: 7/3/2011 6:38:13 PM
What shapes your actions is what counts. And if not god or agnostic or atheistic ..in the end...what you did counts more than what you said. Always. Why?? What you said and what you did are often a divorced reality. The universe is based on individual actions and altogether creates a reality. Always. It always rises above words.




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