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 desertrhino
Joined: 11/30/2007
Msg: 301
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Light:

You don't understand what iSeal is saying. He's not saying subduction doesn't happen, he's just disputing whether water acts as a lubricant. He's also neglecting the effect of hydrates under pressure.

You REALLY don't understand the geode formation page you yourself provided. At no point do they say the geode grows from the center, they're saying the hollow that later becomes the geode is formed by a different method, growth of a nodule, followed y hollowing through chemical/solution means.

You really need an education. You continue to sound like an idiot who gets what little information he has solely from google.

Go.
To.
School.

Better yourself. Seriously.

http://www.geo.arizona.edu/Antevs/ecol438/lect06.html
 aremeself
Joined: 12/31/2008
Msg: 304
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Posted: 12/7/2009 2:25:20 PM
everything is star dust, I think.

that star dust you speak of, wouldn't it have added up over time?
 desertrhino
Joined: 11/30/2007
Msg: 307
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Posted: 12/22/2009 12:21:15 PM

James Maxlow discusses a Mechanism for growth.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7E4OKdmyYQ&feature=player_embedded

There's no mechanism in that rambling horsecrap.

Unless you count the circular argument of expansion via expanding.

What a joke. Are you sure you want to continue to lash your cart to this lame, demented, and deceased equine?
 .dej
Joined: 11/6/2007
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Posted: 7/15/2010 5:16:08 PM
Wow. That was complete nonsense. I wish I hadn't wasted my five minutes on that. A rudimentary understanding of physics would leave one lost in the first 35 seconds of that. A little research yields that the guy has no education in the sciences. Which anyone watching the video who DOES have an education in the sciences could've guessed.

His explanation for gravity (that the earth is just radially expanding at a rate consistent with our gravitational measurements of g (9.8 m/s^2)) falls flat on its face when one realizes we have satellites in orbit that follow the space-time curve and aren't smacked by some "ever-expanding planet". Or by the fact we get different gravity readings the higher we go.

What an idiot. Reading some of his attempts at explaining gravity makes me think "this must be what an acid trip feels like".

Edit: HAHAHAHAHAHA

Okay, a guy recaps what his crap about physical particles is supposed to mean, and then mercilessly mocks his completely lack of understanding of subatomic physics. One of the comments here cites an interview with the guy trying to redesign every field of modern physics (none of his "science" can address any quantum effects we've observed, nor relativistic effects) simply because he doesn't understand how plate tectonics can work.

http://scienceblogs.com/goodmath/2006/12/wacky_physics_it_must_be_right_1.php
 RocketMan_Len
Joined: 7/5/2006
Msg: 310
the earth is growing
Posted: 7/16/2010 2:41:14 AM

Why you compare this to leprechauns with pick axes?? ?!


Because it's another possible explanation for the evidence... as supported by other evidence as Growing Earth is.

Come up with an experiment to demonstrate the existence of this 'Prime Matter' and maybe people will take a second look... but until then, he's just invoking magic to make his idea work.


We know that 200 million years ago the Atlantic was closed. We know that the Pacific is the same age as the Atlantic, yet still grip to the idea that an ancient ocean floor once existed (conveniently absolutely no evidence of what so ever)


I get the impression that you haven't looked at any of the geologic websites provided by others on this thread, because you'd realize that the Pacific plate is moving fast enough for a point to get from the ridge in the south to the subduction zone in the north in approximately 225 million years. Add to that the 3-D images of earthquake epicenter locations in Alaska that *clearly* show them moving deeper the further inland they go... dramatically illustrating that the plate is being subducted.

The only evidence that Neal has is an interesting *possible* coincidence... since his diagrams of smaller planets shows evidence of deliberate alteration to make them 'fit'.
 .dej
Joined: 11/6/2007
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Posted: 7/16/2010 12:17:39 PM

(none of his "science" can address any quantum effects we've observed)


Neal Adams clearly demonstrates how older land masses fit almost perfectly back together on pretty much every planet we have detailed pictures of in the solar system. It's an interesting 'observation' that only leaves a giant question mark as to how?

While Neals Growing planets observation extends to all planets, plate tectonics 'subduction' is limited to only earth. I find the observation of our own ability to question whether or not there might be more going on inside the stars and planets around us interesting.

I'm sorry. You must have misread. I said none of his "science" address any quantum effects we've observed. Your retort had nothing to do with quantum mechanics.

He completely disregards 100 years of subatomic science (progress) in fields of chemistry and physics with EXPERIMENTAL DATA because he doesn't like plate tectonics science and redefines the makeup of the universe as essentially "Neal's particle" (with NO experimental data). He also calls it the "prime matter particle", but to mock him I'm going to continue calling it Neal's particle. And he says that when they split into positrons and electrons, the magnetic force to reunite the two is the fundamental force in the universe. And he says the hollow mass at the center of the earth keeps "making" these Neal's particles.

The problem I brought up is that all of this is completely incompatible with quantum mechanical phenomenon, such as coupled angular momentum conservation, or quantized energy orbits. Your response to that is that you can put a jigsaw puzzle together. Great.

No, this is a guy who failed out of real education and dreamed up a new idea in his head, made no experiments, but decided real physics was too tough. So he had a better idea. And now I'm wasting time on the internet being subjected to the mental ramblings of a high-school dropout.


But go ahead... laugh it up... It wasn't that long ago people where laughing at the idea the Earth was circling the sun and not vise versa.

Yes, I will laugh it up. It wasn't long ago people mocked the idea that the solar system was heliocentric, but Adams' theory is more like the theory people mocked where the earth was actually on a giant barbecue grill and the plant was on the spinning roaster. I'll always laugh it up when people take shortcuts in science to come up with simpler explanations because they can't understand the complexities of real science.

Anything's possible when you don't know what you're talking about.
 .dej
Joined: 11/6/2007
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Posted: 7/21/2010 3:57:39 PM
Good god, he's actually insane.



Neals theory is based on the work by Carl David Anderson (youngest man to win the Nobel prize). In 1932 Anderson first "saw" the spontaneous creation of matter. Later called pair production. Neals entire argument for life as we know it, is that it continues to grow and expand via this pair production process. Yes, this is the opposite view of life as we know it, as our current assumption everything degrades and breaks down and new life comes only from the remains and ashes of previous life.

You are mis-characterizing the nature of the electron-positron discovery, but no worries, as it has almost no impact on the bulk of the rest of your post.



Personally, I think it makes more sense believe the cosmos started out as something the size of a seed... instead of a full grown tree that blew up and is now just rotting back down to nothing.

I'm not worried about the fact you have troubling handle the actual science and instead would prefer to defer to something easier. However, the explanation you come up with doesn't jive with what we know to be true. Like, you know, in reality. Where we have particle accelerators and electron microscopes and laboratories. The explanation you want to be true cannot be true at the same time as other things that we know to be true. Like, coupled angular momentum conservation in quantum particles. Or space-time curves that light follows. Or orbital conservation in satellites over Earth. Or any of thousands of particle scattering experiments dating back to the beginning of the 20th century.

The reality is that this pseudo-science thought experiment just does not fit into what we know about the natural world around us.



In 1835, Charles Darwin was one of the first to theorize about the possibility that the earth could be growing. He came to the idea while trying to come up with an explanation for the elevation of the landmass of South America as shown by mountain building in the Andes.

Yes, and later in that year, he abandoned the idea, as it was more fully explained by actual science: plate tectonics. Not that either is relevant: Darwin was not a geological scientist.



I agree with Neal Adams who said during a talk show that he said he wished Carey was a physicist as well. A geologist is very specialized in understanding the earth and rocks, but it would take physicist to explain a mechanism to explain growth that would be accepted by the scientific community. Carey said that the explanation for growth had to be found in understanding the expansion of the universe it's self.

If your science relies on other fundamental tenets of science to be rewritten, it's not good science. Requiring some of the most fundamental laws of nature (like conservation of matter and conservation of energy) to be nullified means your science is wrong.



70% of the planets surface is less then 200 million years old.

Well that's a stupid thing to say. 70% of the planet is covered in water. We cannot even observe 70% of the planet's solid surface.



70% of the planets surface is less then 200 million years old. If the earth was the size of a basket ball, the surface wouldn't even be as thick as a sheet of paper.

But the earth is not the size of a basketball. So this isn't a problem.



I would assume if it was eating itself to maintain a static mass, the inner mantles of the earth would have no problems devouring the rocks you and I live on.

Uh... what the hell did you just say? The earth is not "eating itself" to maintain a "static" mass. All the earth has to do to maintain a CONSTANT mass is exist.



Ancient fish fossils don't come from the ocean floor, they come from the land... most likely because that is where the oceans used to be before the planet got bigger.

No, that's "most likely" because that's where we can access them, and "most likely" where they'll be best preserved. And by that I mean, it IS because that's where we can access them and it's where they've been best preserved.


In Indonesia, an entire district has been buried by an eruption of boiling, noxious mud. The reporter talks about the cause being a drilling disaster. Engineers can not stop the disaster. Enough water coming up to the surface to fill more than 50 Olympic swimming pools a day. The disaster has flooded out many villages and destroyed several factories. Much of mud is now being pumped out into the ocean to try and maintain control of it. This fully supports Maxlows explanation of how the majority of the water has come from the interior of the earth.

So you're trying to say:

a) Matter is being produced so quickly that we cannot control it and pump it out fast enough, AND
b) This is a process that cannot be observed because it's too slow.

I don't understand why you think anyone can take you seriously.
 desertrhino
Joined: 11/30/2007
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Posted: 7/21/2010 7:57:00 PM
I'm interested in hearing where you get the data that lead you to the conclusion that "is no ... subduction mechanism happening."
 .dej
Joined: 11/6/2007
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Posted: 7/21/2010 10:16:16 PM

Yes... it is much easier for me to lean towards a theory that is a simpler one when there are two opposing theory's that want to define the evolution of this planet.

Try Genesis. I hear it works wonders for people like you.
 desertrhino
Joined: 11/30/2007
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Posted: 7/21/2010 10:22:19 PM
Well... when I look at any of millions of readily available images of how subduction works...

example: http://homepages.see.leeds.ac.uk/~earsro/NERC_QUOTA_09/Mantle_convection.jpg

This doesn't show what you think it shows. See below.


You will see clearly that new material opens up in the middle... while older material gets recycled back down on the sides. If this was happening in the African dessert... it obviously couldn't be opening as the old material would be getting pushed back down before it could rift open.

I see. You still don't appear to understand how subduction works. At best, you're completely misunderstanding the SCALE of the process... the rifts and trenches in your example picture are separated by hundreds and hundreds of kilometers.

The rifting zone is on one side of the plate, and the subduction zone is on the complete other side of the plate, in most cases. In this case, it would be to the east, on the far side of the Indian Plate (the one that is separating from the African Plate, forming these rift valleys, etc...), at the Java Trench.

It's kind of sad that you don't even care about your pet theory enough to learn the very most basic components of the opposing (and infinitely closer to "true") theory. It makes arguing with you on the topic kind of like Mike Tyson fighting a third grader. Hey, you've got persistence and energy, and you just won't quit, but it's embarrassing to watch the blood flow from the beatings...

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Rift_Valley

If you must, print out the picture you provided above, write "African Plate" on the left side of the rift, "Indian Plate" on the right side of the rift, and further to the right, label the trench as "Java Trench." Study it for a long, long while. Then come back and discuss it.

Edited to add:

Yes... it is much easier for me to lean towards a theory that is a simpler one when there are two opposing theory's that want to define the evolution of this planet.

All I can say here is that the ONLY THING that makes it SEEM like "Growing Earth" is the SIMPLER theory is your apparent complete lack of understanding and education in any and all of the scientific disciplines involved. Yes, willful ignorance is easier than working hard and educating yourself on any of the topics at hand, even the very easiest ones including "how plates rift and subduct under plate tectonics." Sad, but easy.

Isolated nutbags trying to make a name for themselves as crackpots and then hit the (paid) talk circuit notwithstanding. They are in it for the notoriety of spitting in the face of facts and to make a few dollars at the expense of the ignorant (simple ignorance) and those who automatically choose the anti-scientific-establishment explanation for EVERYTHING (willful ignorance).
 desertrhino
Joined: 11/30/2007
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Posted: 7/22/2010 10:41:37 PM

As you can see by the diagram provided from your link, there is no counteracting subduction mechanism in this new rifting ocean happening.

Read what I said. African Rift Valleys are due to the Indian Plate spreading away from the African Plate, and being SUBDUCTED into the Java Trench. If you still don't get it, read it again, label your diagram as I suggested, and try again.
 .dej
Joined: 11/6/2007
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Posted: 7/26/2010 9:35:07 PM

Well, at least you can sit confidently beside the creationist in the firm belief that the planet has not changed since it's original formation billions of years ago. Evolution isn't just for the animals anymore.

Yeah... you missed my point. My point was that if you like simpler explanations instead of scientific ones, skip this "stuff comes out of nowhere and makes the earth grow" nonsense and just say "IT'S MAGIC. IT SAYS SO IN THE BIBLE".

It's "simpler".


One of the objectives of the LHC "The collider will seek the Higgs boson (or what stands in its place) and determine its properties. " It also has the goal of learning more about dark matter candidates. Discovery in these areas could support growing earth hypothesis.

And the Higgs Boson is not a prime matter particle. Or anything nearly close.
 desertrhino
Joined: 11/30/2007
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Posted: 7/27/2010 6:53:25 AM

UC Santa Cruz Astronomy, Astrophysics, and Astrobiology Professor Gregory P. Laughlin is interviewed on The History Channel's The Universe Season 2. He says the following about the Expansion Tectonics of expanding planets:

"... we think that the reason why that's happening [planetary expansion tectonics] is because they have an internal source of heat which is raising the pressure inside the planet and causing it to expand. That's very similar to a steam boiler on a steam train. In a steam boiler you have water which is being heated by a heat source. That water is turning to steam. The pressure is increasing and that's causing the piston of the boiler to move out, to expand. If you didn't have the gases ability to expand, planets wouldn't inflate. Steam trains wouldn't work. We wouldn't be climbing up this mountain. " -- Gregory P. Laughlin, planetary scientist, November 2007

~http://oilismastery.blogspot.com/2009/09/gregory-p-laughlin-on-expanding-planets.html


Light, you should be more careful with your "evidence." Here's Laughlin's response to the use of that quote to say he supports Expanding Earth. Quote mining is lame as hell.


Hi Jeffery,

I'm not a proponent of the Expanding Earth Hypothesis.

In the history channel documentary, I was referring to highly irradiated gas-giant planets, and using an analogy to explain why they are systematically observed to have larger radii than planets like Jupiter which have much lower surface temperatures.

In essence, I was talking about the ideal gas law. The analogy does not apply to a solid-state body such as the Earth, where the equation of state shows essentially no increase in pressure with temperature.

cheers,
Greg Laughlin


It's always loverly when someone takes a quote made by a reputable scientist and uses it completely out of context to support their crackpot bullsh!te. Which is what Expanding Earth is, crackpot bullshi!te.
 .dej
Joined: 11/6/2007
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Posted: 7/27/2010 2:29:22 PM

Everying suddenly makes sense about from the lanscapes oceans to mountains.

Everything already made sense if you were familiar with the science of plate tectonics.


Religion is based on the cleverness of a few and the fears of the many.

And the "prime matter particle" and this retarded disregard for accomplished and established science is based on the gullibility of a few, and being ignored by many.


If you know as much about HB as you do PT, I'm going to assume that it's not much.

The Higgs Boson is hypothesized to exist and have certain behavior because of established science pointing to a particle's existence that must have certain properties.

The "Neal's Particle" is hypothesized to exist because a few kooks didn't want to go through the rigors of understanding that science.
 .dej
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Posted: 7/28/2010 12:05:50 PM

Neals theory is interesting...

So is Lord of the Rings. But I know to approach it as a work of fiction, as well.


do you even know what his definition of a prime particle is? or you just screaming "no, no, NO!" at something you didn't even try and look at?

I read about it, unfortunately. And I'll never get that time of my life back. Neal's particle is the coupling of an electron and a positron. He claims these are fundamental subparticles whose cosmic reuniting magnetic force is the fundamental force of the universe. We know this to be not true, but we also know that there are other particles other than Neal's, so it's kind of a moot point. Hell, we know that atomic forces aren't magnetic, they're electric. In fact, the number of things that we know in science for a fact that have to be disregarded to get through a basic introduction to Neal's particle is staggering and disorienting. It's tough to get through for someone like me, with a scientific background, because I start to lose track of where Neal wants to draw the line at reality and where Neal's world begins. Reading about his crap, I have to try and suspend so much factual science that I lose track of what knowledge I can try and apply to his claims. Can I keep my knowledge of neutrinos? Probably not, because scattering experiments have to be forgotten to let Neal's particle slide. Can I keep my knowledge of gravity and space-time? Nope, that's not Neal's fundamental force. Can I keep my knowledge of electron spin? Nope, or at least I think not. Neal doesn't address the phenomenon of electron spin, but angular momentum conservation doesn't seem to be compatible with Neal's particle. Actually Neal doesn't seem to have any use for any laws of any conservation.


From my understanding, it's one of those things we need to find to explain an interesting phenomenon called 'mass'.


Question boils down even further in the search to explain 'mass' in the crazy world of quantum mechanics.

Mass is not a phenomenon. I don't know what your education level is in science, but if you think "mass" is an interesting phenomenon, it appears to end at about 6th grade. Mass is not really a pivotal issue in quantum mechanics, momentum and energy are. And since massless particles can have momentum.... am I wasting my time writing this? I don't think you're going to follow this.

I'll stop.
 .dej
Joined: 11/6/2007
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Posted: 7/28/2010 7:47:51 PM
That's something I got over in high school physics and chemistry, dude. I know what mass is. I know the difference between mass, weight, moles, inertia, and acceleration. And I can apply all those concepts to angular situations, too. I do know and understand Newton's three laws, and can make advanced derivations off them, so you don't have to loosely allude to them like they're some advanced issue you should avoid broaching. I understand that someone with your level of science background may not have caught up to that yet, but quit painting elementary intro science as some big mystery.

It's not. And you're not talking to someone with a half-high school education in physics.
 .dej
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Posted: 7/31/2010 3:53:22 PM
There is no math to check over. There are no equations. There is no science. That's what we've been fighting over.
 .dej
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Posted: 8/4/2010 10:05:53 AM
Yeah, I get lost at quantum field theory. Didn't cover that in undergrad, and my physics education stops there.
 FrogO_Oeyes
Joined: 8/21/2005
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Posted: 4/9/2011 12:12:24 PM
At the end of the last glacial, 12000 years ago or so, the Mediterranean was in fact MUCH lower, and the Black Sea was a much smaller freshwater lake. Rising ocean levels breached first at Gibraltar, and then the Dardanelles/Bosporus.

The idea that many ancient seas were freshwater is wrong. Ocean chemistry can be determined by the rocks formed in those oceans. Some types of minerals form only in freshwater, some only in air, and some only in marine waters. Conclusions by the scientific community at large regarding ocean chemistry and size aren't pulled magically from their collective asses - they're firmly backed by geology.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
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Posted: 4/13/2011 5:38:50 PM
An obviously unimportant note, in an obviously unimportant thread:

"Biblical references where[sp] used in finding Troy and are now being referred to in the next best possible location for Atlantis." Both false. Homer's Iliad was the source for finding Troy (which is never mentioned in the Bible), and Plato's dialogs are the SOLE source for Atlantis, at least by name.

Almost all the calculations being thrown around about sea levels over time are RELATIVELY invalid. The entire surface of the Earth has been in motion in all sorts of directions for a very long time. In fact, if one viewed it rapidly over time, from a safe vantage point, it might well resemble a group of cloth chunks, rumpling, wrinkling, tearing, sinking, rising. It is believed right now, for example, that it is simultaneously true that the Eastern half of the U.S. is sinking (due to the melting of the ice in Greenland removing teeter-totter-like pressure from the other "end" of that plate), AND that the sea level itself is rising, also due to melting polar ice.
By the way, as some folks at least seems to realize, the level of water on ONE spot on the Earth is NOT actually tied to the level of water on every OTHER spot in the surface. Gravity itself varies over the surface of the planet, the turning of the planet means that there is a BULGE of water around the middle, AND, there are specific measurable amounts of time required for a rise in water in ONE place, to affect another one. There's that MOON thing running around us in a circle, too, which (so it has been rumored) has SOME effect on the water. I think they named some kind of soap after it.
 FrogO_Oeyes
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Posted: 4/13/2011 10:28:11 PM

We know that 200 million years ago the Atlantic was closed. We know that the Pacific is the same age as the Atlantic, yet still grip to the idea that an ancient ocean floor once existed (conveniently absolutely no evidence of what so ever) in order to maintain the notion of a static earth radius.

Why cherry-pick two oceans when you have at least six to choose from? Yes, six. Tethys is still around, after a fashion. Some of it has been compressed and uplifted as mountains, some is landlocked desert, and some is still marine. You're commiting a post hoc fallacy. All probabilities are 100%, after the fact. Not surprisingly, the oldest submarine crusts are furthest from rift zones. Some of those are not at subduction zones, and some are. It should be fairly obvious that where there are subduction zones, anything older has already been subducted! Pick any age of crust you like, you could make the same argument. Why is there no submarine crust older than 1.5 billion years? 600 million years? 8 years? The only clear answer is that at SOME point you must reach a maximum age. Anywhere that crust is raised it will last longer and thus achieve a greater age - that would be terrestrial cratons. Anywhere that crust is depressed it will be more subject to subduction and thus more likely to have its aging curtailed. Hello, ocean floors, and most especially trenches!


This argument assumes that the volume of the ocean waters has been constant throughout geological history. On an Expansion Tectonic Earth the sea floor crust, ocean water and atmosphere all originate from deep within the Earths mantle and have been added to the surface crust at an accelerating rate throughout geological time. This increase in new ocean water and atmosphere is considered to have resulted by a process of mantle out-gassing, as a natural response to a decrease in mantle temperature and pressure conditions with time. " ~James Maxlow (www.jamesmaxlow.com)

This is idiotic. Do the addition:
The planet expands, reducing pressure and releasing water and gas. Try this at home folks: soak a sponge. Now increase the pressure on it.

Now as the pressure decreases and the planet continues to expand...the amount of water and gas released INCREASES!

Since when does a DECREASE in temperature OR pressure lead to an INCREASE in out-gassing?


The ancient coastlines, when plotted on Expansion Tectonic models, show that large Panthallassa, Tethys and Iapetus Oceans are not required during reconstruction. This is because on an Expansion Tectonic Earth all modern oceans are removed and continents are assembled as a single continental crust. These inferred oceans are instead replaced by smaller Panthallassa, Tethys and Iapetus Seas located on or between the ancient continents.

That's great. But try to do this bit of puzzle magic after you remove the uplifted seabeds from the terrestrial parts of the maps. You know - all the mountains and flatlands composed of marine sediments which could not have been part of any shoreline.


The geomorphology of mountains and their recent origin make plate tectonics an improbable mechanism for mountain building.

Only the RECENTLY formed mountains would be largely uneroded. The older they are, the lower and more eroded they are. The sediments which gave rise to metamorphic rocks over a billion years ago eroded from somewhere and were deposited in an ocean before ultimately being lifted up to erode again. This is pretty trite stuff.


It is you who seems to refused to acknowledge that before the expansion of the pacific and atlantic oceans, water level was several hundred meters higher then it is today.

Relative to what? There's ample evidence of massive archaic climate fluctuations, including “snowball” glaciation and massive deserts. Add to that the fact that most modern land areas were submarine for vast periods. Total sea levels will fluctuate with global climate, total volume of glaciation, and relative depths and surface areas of water bodies. To top it off, you are selectively referencing periods of higher sea levels while conveniently ignoring periods of LOWER sea levels. Current levels are approximately the same as the levels of 550 mybp, so while sea levels HAVE been much higher, before they rose they were just as low, sometimes lower, and sometimes higher:
http://www.hgs.org/attachments/articles/2048/Paleozoic%20Sea%20Level%20Paper%20(Haq%20and%20Shutter).pdf


There was a drilling accident in Eastern Java, Indonesia that seems to illustrate how this very theory. Science is calling it a mud volcano phenomenon. In short, a pocket of compressed water was tapped into, and engineers can not stop the disaster. Enough water coming up to the surface to fill more than 50 Olympic swimming pools a day. The disaster has flooded out many villages and destroyed several factories. Much of mud is now being pumped out into the ocean to try and maintain control of it

So? There are many mud volcanos along the western edge of the deepest subduction zones [trenches] of the western Pacific. The rocks which are subducting in this area are primarily serpentine, which melts easily. That's why it subducts faster and deeper with fewer earthquakes or magma volcanos. As it subducts, it's taking a large amount of water-logged mud with it, in addition to the water bound into the serpentine itself. Guess why there are mud volcanos formed here?
Some actual science on that matter:
http://www.perplex.ethz.ch/papers/Ruepke_EPSL_04.pdf
http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2001AGUFM.T22D..02P


The point I was making to Paul is that an object from the size of a cell to the size of a star can change in volume without changing in mass without needing an empty void in it's centre. To just say it can't happen to planets is pretty ignorant in my opinion.

Dude. You are comparing rocks and cookies. LITERALLY. Do you have any idea what a false analogy is or why it is a fallacy?


It should also highlight the explanation as to why there is absolutely no evidence what so ever of an any ocean floor that is older then 300 million years.

Of course there is. Being at the lowest points, it only has two places to go: down, or up. If it's subducted, it ceases to be recognizable. If it goes up...

These are ALL sites with marine fossils over 1/2 BILLION years old, with at least one of them being deepwater deposits [below the effects of waves or light]. There are many such sites worldwide:
http://www.geo.ucalgary.ca/~macrae/Burgess_Shale/
http://www.fossilmuseum.net/Fossil_Sites/Chengjiang.htm
http://cambrian.tripod.com/IntrotoEdiacaran
http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/vendian/mistaken.html

One site of many:
http://greenfield.fortunecity.com/dwellers/176/index.html
To summarize - a mountain range made up almost entirely of marine rocks, many of which are over a billion years old. That is, rocks formed in a sea by sedimentation over one billion years ago.


The Theory has a lot less to do with the Physics

No kidding.


This should not be a stopping point in recognizing the observations of his science.

Given that the accepted theories are ALL compliant with established and unrefuted laws of physics, chemistry, and a vast number of additional theories...
And given that “expanding Earth” requires ignoring or throwing out so much that has empirical support...
then it is NOT “science”. Science requires seeking the best explanation which is consistent with the facts, including all other explanations which accord with evidence. Like creationism, it's a house of cards, and while neither you nor Maxlow realize it, he's removed the ground floor. And because neither of you seem to have a grasp of the fundamentals involved, you're not capable of seeing the repercussions of selectively ignoring established and proven methodologies.


Now imagine our moon sized core. Imagine when the earth formed billions of years ago that the pressure of that internal structor was significantly higher then it is now. As the planet ages and cools, that super density transforms to a less dense state. It would cause everything starting at the core to expand without changing in mass.

Gravity creates that pressure. Gravity is entirely contingent upon mass. Gravity dictates that neither the mass nor the pressure are going anywhere. Care to discard gravity?


That is the point I'm trying to make without breaking any laws of physics or make up imaginary theory's about how the planet could increase in size over time.

See above.
F-
Epic fail.

At one of the last stand up presentations done by Maxlow, the majority of the audience polled disagreed with the theory. They also didn't didn't read any of his papers. Are you one of those people? Just screaming "No" without even looking at his work?

I have. It was actually one you have pointed out, although I came across it separately while researching other things. I have also found it referenced elsewhere. There was plenty “not quite right” about it - things that didn't add up, even without picking apart why they didn't add up. I have always found that when I have that impression it's because I am subconsciously analyzing the data and coming to the same conclusion as when I make the conscious effort. No, that's not an especially helpful commentary, but that's how my mind works - I just DO the puzzle without thinking about it. Maxlow's pieces don't fit.
 Kohmelo
Joined: 9/20/2011
Msg: 345
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History
the earth is growing
Posted: 11/17/2011 4:57:26 PM
I want to believe this

To study it

Then apply it to my penis

Cuz everyone could use an extra inch ;)
 Bloke_up_North
Joined: 12/13/2008
Msg: 347
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the earth is growing
Posted: 11/19/2011 5:03:19 PM


The great Global Rift is 65,000km



The Earth CIRCUMFERENCE around the poles is only 40,075.16 km. So where do you get your measurement from?



Hawaii isn't much older then the ocean floor around it.



Some of it is being created as I type. It's made by an active volcano and it forms a chain of islands because the plate that it sits on is moving.
 Bloke_up_North
Joined: 12/13/2008
Msg: 348
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the earth is growing
Posted: 11/25/2011 1:05:01 PM
http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-11-plate-tectonics-age.html

Evidence that plate tectonics goes back 2 billion years
 MikeWM
Joined: 2/7/2011
Msg: 349
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the earth is growing
Posted: 11/25/2011 1:24:32 PM
This is weird

My mobile phone provider keeps telling me that the world is getting smaller not larger
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