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 IndKyPerson
Joined: 4/14/2007
Msg: 47
view profile
History
to oppose abortion.Page 2 of 12    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12)

oh and while we are at it why don't change the laws back to Roman times when women were men property.


Ok


Just kidding!!!!
 sayalla
Joined: 2/18/2007
Msg: 50
to oppose abortion.
Posted: 5/30/2007 4:47:47 PM
For all those who oppose abortion (except for "good reasons") , please answer this question, is the basic argument against abortion is that it is the voluntary termination of a potential human life? In other words, a person is deliberately choosing to end a life before it has a chance to live?

And as for those "good reasons", who decides what reason is good enough? Imagine that you are the father of one daughter. She is your only child and you have spent your whole life making sure she has everything she needs. Now, after many years of your nagging and discipine, she has graduated from high school. To her and your surprise and delight, she has snagged a band scholarship to U of M. Over the summer, you and your wife buy her a "newer" car, help her pick out furniture and get her all sorts of upgrades for her computer. Sure, you're spending a boatload of money, but this is your only daughter and you are more than proud of her. Needless to say, once she see's how you guys are decking her out, she is excited about living on campus and you are excited about turning her room into a home theater complete with your favoriute overstuffed La-Z-Boy chair, a brand new 52 " HDTV and a refrigerator full of your favortite snacks (for a change). As you are driving your daughter to Ann Arbor, to check into her dorm room, she is uncharacteristically silent. You asuume it's becuase she doesn't quite know how to tell you how much she loves and appreciates all the sacrifices you have made in anticipation of this very day. You look over at her and she has tears in her eyes. She tries to speak. You smile, and tell her that she doesn't have to say anything, you already know how she feels. Instead, she starts sobbing. When you ask what's wrong, she replies "I'm pregnant". Through her sobs, she chokes out the full story. It happened at the senior prom and she never told the boy, who, by now has now has gone on to college himself. You are stunned. And through her tears, she begs forgiveness for disappointing you. You look at your daughter and somehow find the words to say, "it's alright." Now, do you mean, "It's alright. I think I can turn the storage room over the garage into a nursery" ? Or do you mean, "It's alright. Your life can go on as you planned "?
 IndKyPerson
Joined: 4/14/2007
Msg: 51
view profile
History
to oppose abortion.
Posted: 5/31/2007 12:12:04 AM
"it's alright."
It's not the end of a life, it's the begining of one, it really is, alright.
 IndKyPerson
Joined: 4/14/2007
Msg: 53
view profile
History
to oppose abortion.
Posted: 6/7/2007 9:28:01 AM

My question to the pro-lifers is when would these artificial embryos become a "life" that is able to be "murdered"? Right after they are created in the lab? If so, why? It's not God who created them.. it is man who created them. God doesn't enter the picture until a "soul" appears with consciousness.


Are you asking whether God does a soul deposit or not and when? That's seems to be an issue of faith and belief.
If the question is, when do we begin to repect the human life that is growing? Well, you first, what's your opinion?

I've got questions too. Are these "artificial" embryos growing into "artificial" fetuses and then on to "artificial" humans? At what point in their development do they lose the "artificial" disclaimer? Will they be "artificial" infants, children, teenager, adults? Can you even murder the "artificial" no matter the stage it is in?
 IndKyPerson
Joined: 4/14/2007
Msg: 55
view profile
History
to oppose abortion.
Posted: 6/7/2007 6:36:45 PM

anything that has consciousness needs to be respected to some degree.


How is consciousness measured?
If by brain activity, then folks on the operating table are fair game for harvest, by having plant status that is.


I'm just using the artificial argument to demonstrate that God's hand isn't apparent until the soul actually appears.


Are you making a claim that God has a hand in it? That's really some incredible act of individual intervention from the hand of God. Not to mention, you claim it to be a soul instead of the pinnacle of the evolved brain capable of conscience thought and reason on this planet.
 bob0colo
Joined: 4/9/2006
Msg: 57
view profile
History
to oppose abortion.
Posted: 6/7/2007 8:59:31 PM
I love this.......

30% of the children in the USA are uninsured.......

Election GOP talking points!!!!!!!

Abortion.....Gay rights.......Military gays.........FLAG......

FLAG or FAG.......Killing babies.

The GOP debate Abortion........

MEN instructing women what is moral.......

No man should have any voice in this issue......
 sweetie425
Joined: 5/24/2005
Msg: 58
to oppose abortion.
Posted: 6/7/2007 10:49:04 PM

No man should have any voice in this issue......


This is where it gets tricky in mho. Since it takes both a man and a woman to create a fertilized egg, an embryo, a potential child, should a man have the right to go to court to stop a women from having an abortion if she is carrying his potential offspring ?

It's the woman's body, but sperm that was needed to create the fertilized egg, does the man have any legal claim to the fertilized egg, embryo, potential child since the fertilized egg contains part of him ?

If the fertilized egg was allowed to develop into a child, the male would have legal rights once the child was born, so does the male have no rights to his offspring until the offspring leaves the mother's womb ?

What if the man was told the odds were a million to one he could father a child but he beat the odds and impregnated a women, his one chance to have an offspring but the women wanted an abortion ?
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 61
to oppose abortion.
Posted: 6/10/2007 4:19:02 PM
Actually, until the 19th Century, Catholic teaching was that the soul entered the human body during birth. That's what Thomas Aquinas thought and it was accepted by the Church. It was an argument over caesarian section births that lead to the current teaching.
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 64
to oppose abortion.
Posted: 6/10/2007 9:59:53 PM
I don't even know where to begin. I'm Canadian. And everything I stated is public record. Look at what Aquinas said about it, that's easy enough.
 123adg456
Joined: 10/13/2006
Msg: 66
Abortion & Politics
Posted: 6/11/2007 10:34:02 AM
I confused about this issue.

_They say abortion is murder and/or a Sin.
_The same people who are against this particular "sin" abortion, have a strong belief in Fornication, sex between a unmarried couple (another sin).

Am I missing something here???
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 69
Abortion & Politics
Posted: 6/11/2007 1:02:47 PM
Aquinas and Roger Bacon were the two great minds of the Middle Ages. Now I know I'm not as smart as Aquinas, and I'm betting you aren't either. So you might very well be wrong.
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 71
Abortion & Politics
Posted: 6/11/2007 1:26:10 PM
Sorry, this is a philisophical question. And a theological one. Lets assume that Aquinas knew the Bible just a tad better than you or I. He came to a conclusion that you didn't. I'm going to bet on the faster horse in this race.
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 73
Abortion & Politics
Posted: 6/11/2007 1:49:52 PM
Remind me, what does the Bible say about vanity again?

And to respond to your edited post: The argument boils down to where the fetus is human. For you it's at conception because by your theology that's when the soul enters the body. That's not logic. I'm pointing out that you could be mistaken, since the great theologian of your church felt otherwise.
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 75
Abortion & Politics
Posted: 6/11/2007 2:16:15 PM
Uh, uh. But when 2 cells divide into 4, by my definition of human, that's not it. At some point well before 40 weeks it is. But I don't know where to draw the line. For you it's easy and black and white. For Aquinas it was easy and black and white. For me it's not.

edit: For Aquinas I'm sure it wasn't easy. I apologize to his legacy. Everything he wrote was well and carefully reasoned.
 flyguy51
Joined: 8/11/2005
Msg: 76
to oppose abortion.
Posted: 6/11/2007 2:19:19 PM

the soul enters the body at conception
that is evident from scripture.

What some don't know is that the birth control pill sometimes (rarely) allows an ovum to get fertilized, it just doesn't allow it to attach to the uterus. In light of that, people who believe the above quote should not use the pill, if they want to be consistent in their principles.

In any case, the above quote is a belief, not a fact, and personal beliefs and their resultant principles should not be legislated on a free populace. To answer the OP, I don't believe a president has much power over the number of abortions that take place, so, no, his or her stance on the issue is not a big decider for me.
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