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 flyguy51
Joined: 8/11/2005
Msg: 80
Abortion & PoliticsPage 3 of 12    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12)

the catholic church has not, to my knowledge, taken the position that the soul is present at conception. it did take the position that life is present at conception.

The first statement is curious, because the Church's views on abortion are well-known. Maybe it's in reference to the tragedy of miscarriages? The second statement is ambiguous, because life is present in a potted plant, for example.

I don't know what will convince you and the rest of the world when life begins...or more specifically, at what point humanity is indwelt with a soul...

And that's... OK. The rest of the world isn't trying to convince you when life begins. "It's all about freedom, baby, yeah!"

zygotes and atoms and neutrons and electrons are smaller than grains of sand. yet they all have life.

Huh?... you've lost me here. Energy, yes, but life???
 flyguy51
Joined: 8/11/2005
Msg: 89
Abortion & Politics
Posted: 6/12/2007 11:22:52 AM

until our society takes a turn around and absence is taught, or the outcome of unprotected sex, not only with an unwanted pregnancy but STDS, there is no other option open.

I hear you there, Punkinpie74. The only real solution, as I see it, is education. I hate to say it, because it sounds harsh, but I haven't really heard of teen pregnancies being a big problem amongst intelligent, well-educated kids.

That education includes sex education, by the way. I don't know how it is in England, but that sort of thing is very controversial here in the US. The very people who hate the thought of sexually active teens are the ones trying to stifle sex education. Abstinence, while a valid philosophy, is not an effective or realistic one. It is based upon the premise "You'll never drown if you never get in the water." Well, kids get really curious about swimming and water sports; they look like a lot of fun. These adults solely emphasize the negatives, and the kids smell BS.
 IndKyPerson
Joined: 4/14/2007
Msg: 93
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History
Abortion & Politics
Posted: 6/12/2007 4:20:46 PM

I think it's because Terrorists as much as you like to dehumanize them have complex neurological structure and are capable of feeling pain.


You sure about that?
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 94
Abortion & Politics
Posted: 6/12/2007 4:26:12 PM
Actually, teen pregnancies that are terminated are included in the statistics. The ready availability of the morning after pill here might have something to do with lower teen pregnancy rates (you don't need a prescription, so you don't need to go to a doctor). Most here think an abortion is a bad thing since it's a last resort, but a necessary evil. And we're all pretty sure that the earlier the better (in terms of the woman, and the later the abortion the murkier the moral ground), so it's easily accessible early.
 gizmosellschickens
Joined: 5/20/2007
Msg: 95
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History
Abortion & Politics
Posted: 6/12/2007 5:22:20 PM
Abortion is morally wrong and leaves people unrespondible for thier actions, but banning abortion will make it worse, and people will perform abortion in back alley or underground clinics putting the womens life in danger, and therefore it should remain legal to have abortions. Goverment should make discision who lives or dies to begin with.
 designingwoman
Joined: 9/4/2005
Msg: 98
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History
Abortion & Politics
Posted: 6/29/2007 12:33:19 PM
I just want to add my two cents' worth: I am so SICK of this issue!! It does not belong in the political arena. This issue should be discussed among medical personnel who are better qualified to decide whether to proceed with a certain type of abortion procedure or not.

Quite frankly, the "pro-life" movement has lost ALL credibility with me--they went out in full force to support George W. Bush, a murderer and a liar. Bush murdered 150 people in Texas with the death penalty, and murdered over 3000 of our troops in his foolish war in Iraq. That is NOT pro-life, people!! I find that the movement is very hypocritical and fixated on fetuses to the point that they are willing to support someone who kills grown men and women! If someone is TRULY "Prolife" that person should also be against other forms of killing such as the death penalty and useless wars such as the war in Iraq. These same fools also want babies to be born into poverty--they support the kinds of politicians who don't care about babies AFTER they've been born!!

The pro life movement should drop out of politics, and work to support adoption agencies and organizations that assist women who are pregnant who would like to bear their children rather than have an abortion. THAT I can support. People who are genuinely pro-choice have NO problems with adoption agencies or with pregnancy crisis centers that support a mother through the pregnancy. Until the pro-life movement gets the hell out 0f politics and stops supporting dirtbags like Bush and Mitt Romney (that nitwit wanted to bring back the death penalty to Massachusetts, hardly what you would call pro-life!) I want no part of their movement.

I would like to see a movement of those who are sick of the debate push for abortion to be removed from politics and placed in the medical arena where it really belongs.
 designingwoman
Joined: 9/4/2005
Msg: 100
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History
Abortion & Politics
Posted: 6/29/2007 3:47:45 PM
Being conservative and "pro life" are incompatible--conservatives want to kill people with the death penalty, and that's state sanctioned murder. So is that foolish war in Iraq. Innocent civilians have been murdered in that war that isn't doing anything to stop terrorism, not just the troops who are being used as pawns by King George.

My anti-conservative rant is the truth, and the truth hurts! Maybe the pro life movement will one day be an enlightened one in which they work in nonpartisan ways to reduce the abortion rate while also sending a consistent pro life message. The current movement that supports conservative murderers is NOT consistently pro-life!
 designingwoman
Joined: 9/4/2005
Msg: 103
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History
Abortion & Politics
Posted: 6/30/2007 3:34:52 PM
I agree with Thundershowers above. It is a medical issue and should be treated as such.
 designingwoman
Joined: 9/4/2005
Msg: 105
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History
Abortion & Politics - my opinions
Posted: 7/1/2007 9:06:11 AM
The above poster wrote very well, and the point of safety is an important part of this issue. That's one reason why I feel that the abortion issue belongs in the medical arena. Banning abortion will only cause the return to back alley abortions which cause death to both the mother and child. Abortions have been going on since ancient times. It is better to have it regulated by medical professionals so that a rape victim, for example, can have a safe procedure. Politicians aren't gynecologists, and should not be involved in that decision process.

I do feel that the option of adoption isn't promoted sufficiently. If that choice is made available and assistance is provided, that is an alternative to abortion that benefits both the child and the mother. Many people are going overseas to adopt children, when we could encourage domestic adoptions here and bring children into families who WANT the children, and can take good care of them. I like the slogan: "Adoption is the caring option." The slogan says nothing about the abortion issue either way, but promotes the idea of adoption whenever it is medically possible to do so. Politicians can help in this area by passing laws that facilitate the adoption process. That action helps give women another choice from which to choose.

A true pro-choice person would agree that a woman also has the right to choose the adoption option if she does not want to keep her child. I think that those who are against abortion should not support murderous politicians who aren't qualified to make that decision for a woman. Instead, they should volunteer for and assist adoption agencies in encouraging the adoption choice. After all I was adopted, and anything that promotes adoption as a choice is something that I applaud.
 designingwoman
Joined: 9/4/2005
Msg: 108
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History
Abortion & Politics
Posted: 7/3/2007 3:56:11 PM
I agree with the above poster about the sentient vs. non sentient. If it's a clump of cells and the brainwaves aren't there yet it is not sentient. In that case it cannot be defined as murder because sentience is not there.

The above poster who commented that useless wars and the death penalty are different from aborting a sentient baby, you are DEAD wrong (pun intended!) Killing is killing. Bush is a MURDERER. NOT pro-life!! No one who supports murder of sentient beings whether an eight month old fetus, a criminal who may not have even committed the crime (it's happened you know), or sending troops in harms way for no valid reason (namely that war in Iraq--it's doing nothing to stop terrorism in other parts of the world) can truly be called pro-life!!! The death penalty is immoral and does not belong in a civilized country. I am outraged at people like you who think it's "pro life" to support murderers like Bush who killed 150 people on death row just because he claims to be "against abortion".

That's why abortion should be taken out of politics and put into the medical arena. I would daresay that most medical professionals would not consider aborting without valid reasons, and if it was taken out of politics, the abortion rate would go DOWN. That should be the goal of pro-lifers, not supporting rotten murderers like King George.
 designingwoman
Joined: 9/4/2005
Msg: 116
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History
Abortion & Politics
Posted: 7/19/2007 1:51:01 PM
Cardboard Zen,

You have a wonderful attitude, and I can see that you have a heart of gold. I cannot agree with you more. Wish there were more guys like you in this world!!

DW
 designingwoman
Joined: 9/4/2005
Msg: 121
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History
Abortion & Politics
Posted: 7/21/2007 5:26:47 PM
Merc,
You cannot seriously call yourself pro life if you also support the death penalty. I don't CARE whether you are killing a criminal, a fetus or an elderly person who is terminally ill. Killing is killing, and anyone who calls themselves pro LIFE who support the death penalty are only fooling themselves. I can see right through the hypocrisy of anyone who is against abortion but also favors the death penalty. You can say you are anti abortion, that's fine because that's what you are. BUT if you have the gall to call yourself pro life, that is absolutely UNACCEPTABLE. ALL life should be valued by a TRUE pro life person, not just unborn babies.

I have more respect for someone who says they are against abortion if they are also against the death penalty. I cannot respect someone who talks through one side of the mouth and out the other, saying that one form of killing is justified and the other is not.
 designingwoman
Joined: 9/4/2005
Msg: 124
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History
Abortion & Politics
Posted: 7/22/2007 12:34:56 PM
You are NOT pro-LIFE. Quit kidding yourself.

That study was written by some conservative twits trying to push their insane agenda onto the lawbooks. It's pure hogwash. In the state of Texas where the death penalty was enthusiastically used by Bushboy the Idiot when it was governor, and that state has a very high crime rate. That's just a bunch of right wing cr** being fed to a bunch of gullible people, like you.

We have jails for violent murderers. Lock them up and leave them there for the rest of their lives. ONE murder, and you are done. No more of this rapists or murderers getting off in three years. I say that we use the jails for what they are for, and if someone who is really innocent is in jail, release him. If someone was executed and then found innocent, you cannot give the man his life back. If you are really pro life, you cannot POSSIBLY support the death penalty too, because an innocent person could be murdered while using the death penalty.

Life without parole is an appropriate penalty for a violent crime. I am not sanctioning violent criminals by saying that I am against the death penalty. What I am for is locking them up for the rest of their lives so that they can't re commit their crimes. I say that life without parole should be given automatically to any murderer, rapist or child molester at the FIRST offense. The true PRO LIFE stand on this is to put these kinds of criminals in jail for the rest of their lives, and if someone is truly found innocent, that person has a chance to regain his freedom. Once dead, it's TOO LATE.

I have NO problem with someone who is against abortion who is for the death penalty calling himself anti abortion. That's fine and an appropriate term to use to describe yourself. And you are free to feel that way. BUT don't give me the apples and oranges nonsense. ALL life is precious, if you are genuinely pro LIFE. To me, you are just a person who is against abortion, NOT "pro-life".

BUT DO NOT call yourself pro LIFE if you support the death penalty while being against abortion!!!!!!!!!!!!
 jimgreen
Joined: 7/21/2007
Msg: 127
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History
Abortion & Politics
Posted: 7/24/2007 10:58:48 PM
I agree with you 100%....until the fetus becomes VIABLE. At that point it does not need to mother any longer to live, but a crual twist of nature leaves the baby in the mother womb for another 2 months. A C-section at that point and the baby has a life. After viability the baby should come into some rights. Let's face it the woman had 5 months to make up her mind, make a dicision within THAT timeframe.
 designingwoman
Joined: 9/4/2005
Msg: 128
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History
Abortion & Politics
Posted: 7/25/2007 12:10:33 PM
Hi Merc, do you want a pink or blue straightjacket? I'll give you a free ticket to see a shrink. Heaven knows you need one

I still hold fast to the feeling that it is dead wrong (pun intended!) to call oneself pro life if he is against abortion but favors the death penalty. Anti abortion is a more accurate description for someone like you. Someone who is against both abortion AND the death penalty is genuinely pro life, and someone I can respect for the consistency of his views.

It's people like Merc that give the "pro life" movement a bad name. They foam at the mouth when talking with people they do not agree with. Others give it a bad name by supporting evil politicians who lie and murder like Bush has (killing our troops and innocent bystanders in a useless war in Iraq that has only strengthened al-Qaeda, along with the state sanctioned murder of inmates in Texas). Still others resort to terrorist tactics such as the group "Operation Rescue" and those who kill abortion doctors. When people can give the issue a rest and focus on more important issues like jobs and the economy, we can finally (!) start moving forward.

Now, if the "pro life" movement was nonpartisan, encouraged more adoptions, and spent their money aiding pregnant women in trouble, I would support it wholeheartedly. Unfortunately, they've lost all credibility in my eyes with their sheer hypocrisy.
 designingwoman
Joined: 9/4/2005
Msg: 131
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History
Abortion & Politics
Posted: 7/25/2007 7:07:11 PM
WOW. I wash my hands completely of the "pro life" movement even though I am not a fan of abortions. If people like Merc think that the death penalty is okay and calls himself "pro LIFE" I want nothing to do with such an absurdly hypocritical "movement" that has done nothing to actually reduce the abortion rate. The "pro life" movement supports politicians who are harmful to our country instead of actually DOING things that can reduce the abortion rate. They dupe people into voting Republican just for the abortion issue, instead of actually taking the money and helping pregnant women with the adoption process or keeping their children. The pro life movement has lost its way and has put too much focus on putting bad politicians in office who are actually harmful to children. These kinds of dirtbags want to allow more pollution for example, something that is harmful to all children born and unborn.

Merc is the one foaming at the mouth. No wonder the "pro life" movement is losing so much credibility.

I am all for military tactics that stop terrorism, but I am not for executing someone who may not have committed a crime. It's state sanctioned murder, and NO ONE who calls himself pro life should support that barbaric practice.

I think it's high time that people called them what they really are: ANTI ABORTION. Being Pro LIFE means alot more than just being against abortion.

If you are really against abortion volunteer at an adoption agency or a crisis pregnancy center.

MERC the JERK HA HA HA HA HA I could not resist tweaking the twit
 designingwoman
Joined: 9/4/2005
Msg: 136
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History
Abortion & Politics
Posted: 7/30/2007 8:28:56 PM
I am going to have to repeat myself to some people here who still don't get it!

One who favors the death penalty is NOT pro life. NUFF SAID
 Jameslazazzera
Joined: 9/21/2006
Msg: 137
Abortion & Politics
Posted: 7/31/2007 1:11:09 AM


You’re right! You can’t be calling yourself PRO LIFE from a Christian perspective


From a Christian's perspective? Christianity is a religion with one of the bloodiest histories of all of them! PRO LIFE from a Christian Perspective...thats a laugh! It's ok to kill Hethens, but not children conceived in sin.

I am pro death penalty, and Canadian...almost an oxymoron! When there is a certainty of guilt (ie Charles Manson, Paul Bernado) then they should be put to death instead of weighing on the prison systems over taxed budget

I am anti abortion. You chose to screw, as the saying goes, dont do the crime if you cant do the time. If the baby is a danger to the mother, if the baby is a rape-child...these are reasonable acceptions. Abortion is NOT birth control...that said I think it should be legal. People will get them, legal or not, and I would rather it happen in a hospital than a back alley.
 Longrock1WW
Joined: 2/3/2007
Msg: 138
Abortion & Politics
Posted: 8/14/2007 4:13:45 PM
I'm not a radical, really but there has been 50 million abortions in this country since a junkie dyke won her court case. We've swept it under the rug quite efficiently. One Sunday night at midnight watch a show on channel 55 Eclipse of Reason, see if you change your mind at all. Partial birth abortion where they stick a long needle and suck out the brain matter of the infant. Excruciatinly painful,without a doubt a slaughter tactic and there's been more than 10 million of those. A regular abortion they just crack the infants spinal column again unmercifully painful (it has a heart beat). Medically, philisophically, scientifically you should be able to smash the baby's head against the curb before it's six month's old, take it for a test drive so to speak and your probably doing a better thing for the infant than legalprocedures they are performing today. That's no joke. Ask a doctor.
 Longrock1WW
Joined: 2/3/2007
Msg: 139
Abortion & Politics
Posted: 8/14/2007 4:43:12 PM
Merry XMAS. What is it Malcolm X's birthday? Sorry, changed subjects, that always ticks me off. It's posted on the bottom. Just some information about a couple of New York politicians. Chuck Shumer's # 1 agenda has been to keep partial bith abortions legal. Your basically stabbing a baby's head open in order to cut out it's brain as it's being born. They argue you are doing it to prevent the mother from harm. A mother can choose to do this because she is under to much stress minutes before the child is born and in no real physical danger at all. What mother isn't experiencing too much stress on a day like this? There's been more than 10 million of these types of abortions perfomed in this country legally. It makes you really hope there's a hell. About everyone's favorite, Mike Bloomberg, he recently threatened to cut off funds to medical schools bwcause doctors and med students were trying to get abortion training off the curiculum. Bloomberg won. 9/11 3,700 Americans dead. Iraq war, 3,350 Americans dead. Abortion Over 50 million and counting, over 10 million on their birthday.
 Pattyw286
Joined: 8/28/2007
Msg: 140
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History
Abortion & Politics
Posted: 9/1/2007 4:10:21 PM
I'm sorry Marie88 but I take offense to that. I have a learning disability so I guess in your view I should have been aborted because of my learning disability
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