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 Boomstrike
Joined: 12/1/2007
Msg: 165
Abortion & PoliticsPage 6 of 12    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12)

I would argue that anyone with no birth certificate is not legally alive and therefor cannot be considered murdered. Fetuses, until very late in their development, arent really people. Just like sperm and eggs arent people.

OK I'll bite.
An embryo is a living organism that
(1) has a metabolism
(2) grows
(3) can reproduce at some stage of its normal life process
(4) has a complete and unique set of DNA
(5) its DNA is human
 bob0colo
Joined: 4/9/2006
Msg: 167
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History
Abortion & Politics
Posted: 2/3/2008 12:35:58 PM
Bush is also Pro life. A much better option than Kerry would have been.


Yes, because look at how Bush outlawed abortion.

No wait he didn't.
________


He did ban particle Birth.
Or did he.
This is a great issue for some political parties to keep alive...
Bush Pro-life...sure.

All the One issue voters must love it. They don't have to think about anything else.
Birth control, Child care, Unwanted pregnancies, or what to do about them. Maybe a medical procedure should not be used for birth control.
How about some real options.


No more Partial birth? Maybe now you kill the baby before the delivery.

==========

The Loophole
First, The Partial-Birth Abortion Ban Act of 2003(1) does not mention the medical procedure known as the "Intact Dilation and Extraction" (D&X abortion). Since the Act does not use this official medical term, then the D&X procedure is not banned or outlawed by any legal means of this Act.
Second, the Act is specifically restricted by the word "living." "Living, unborn child's body," "living fetus." The words "living fetus" are used three times in the Act.(2)
The Partial-Birth Abortion Ban Act only applies to a "living fetus" -- and there is nothing in the Act to prevent abortionists from killing viable late term babies in the womb first!
If the "fetus" is killed before being pulled out of the womb then the "Partial-Birth Abortion Ban Act" is moot!
All an abortionist has to do is kill the baby in the womb first; then using the medical D&X abortion procedure -- pull the dead baby out -- feet first -- where the baby's head is up to the cervical os, puncture a hole at the back of the neck at the base of the skull (making sure not to cut the mother's cervix), suck the baby's brains out, collapsing the skull, and then pull the head out of the birth canal.

http://www.covenantnews.com/rudd031126.htm
 Boomstrike
Joined: 12/1/2007
Msg: 169
Abortion & Politics
Posted: 2/3/2008 7:31:29 PM
A parasite or a human on life support? If you cease to be able to survive without medical life support, do you lose all rights as a human?
The UN convention on the rights of the child clearly states that children have human rights before birth.
The US supreme court also defined when a fetus becomes a human, and that is before birth. See Roe v Wade.
 Boomstrike
Joined: 12/1/2007
Msg: 171
Abortion & Politics
Posted: 2/4/2008 9:03:58 AM

on the other hand, If i wouldnt force you (or your wife, or whoever) to have an abortion, why would you force me (my wife, whatever) to not have one?...

Forcing people to not commit murder is not wrong. The question is "is it murder?"
Issues of morality are tough. The people that believe that abortion is murder then logically conclude that it should be illegal. They feel it's their right to protect all children, and that it's not a woman's right to kill them. In Canada a fetus has no human rights whatsoever and killing a baby 2 days before birth is perfectly legal. Is this murder?
 designingwoman
Joined: 9/4/2005
Msg: 172
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History
Abortion & Politics
Posted: 2/4/2008 6:50:28 PM
Bush is NOT pro-life in the true sense of the word. It executed 150 prisoners while governor of Texas, a few of whom may be innocent of the crimes they'd been charged with. If someone is truly pro life he should be against abortions, the death penalty and euthanasia. Bush is a mass murderer in my book, hardly what I'd call pro-life.

I am pro choice, but I also am strongly in favor of promoting the idea of adoption whenever possible. Adoption is the best option in many cases. However, if a woman is raped, I can't blame her for having an early term abortion.
 Boomstrike
Joined: 12/1/2007
Msg: 173
Abortion & Politics
Posted: 2/4/2008 7:35:18 PM

You get enough femenist behind it and it will become law.


Bush is not nearly powerful enough, or stupid enough, to go up against this insidious force.
 bob0colo
Joined: 4/9/2006
Msg: 177
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History
Abortion & Politics
Posted: 3/6/2008 2:59:33 PM
it's hard to go against an opinion as ground into society as this one that it is evil. I don't think it is, and like seeing others who don't either.
________

What? You mean no birth control?
 designingwoman
Joined: 9/4/2005
Msg: 181
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History
Abortion & Politics
Posted: 3/11/2008 9:20:59 PM
Safe haven laws allow women who give birth outside of a hospital to bring the baby to a police or fire station without recrimination. These kinds of laws help prevent women from throwing babies out in the trash. Education about adoption and safe haven laws is very important so that women can be aware of another option to abortion. While I lean more toward pro choice, especially in the case of rape, I too find it appalling that babies are thrown away when they could be left at a police/fire station or a hospital. More public service announcements and advertising to make people aware of this type of provision can help save some babies' lives. Pro choice also means being aware of ALL options. I am more pro adoption than anything else, and like the bumper sticker that says: "Adoption: The Caring Option." The slogan says NOTHING about abortion, but does promote adoption as an alternative to abortion. Being pro-adoption and working to pass laws that facilitate the adoption process is the answer to reducing the abortion rate. As it is, I don't want to vote for screwball politicians who call themselves "pro life" but support the death penalty and other ridiculous views on the issues of the day that I cannot support in good conscience.
 designingwoman
Joined: 9/4/2005
Msg: 185
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History
Abortion & Politics
Posted: 9/14/2008 5:06:25 PM
Vote for the candidate who has plans to improve our economy, bring peace to the world, and jobs home to our people, these are the real issues confronting us today

AMEN!!! That candidate that lady from pa mentioned is Barack Obama, and I would like to add Joe Biden because he's part of the Obama team!!!!

I don't think the abortion issue belongs in politics. It has been used as a wedge issue by very evil people who call themselves "pro life" but are far from it.

Obama/Biden 2008
 cosmopolitician
Joined: 7/19/2008
Msg: 190
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History
Abortion & Politics
Posted: 9/22/2008 2:27:40 PM
That is a very poorly worded question. It's a pet peeve of mine, I think conservatives use to criminalize the pro-lifers. There is a big difference between being "pro-choice" & "pro abortion."

I am not "pro-abortion," I don't think anyone would really say they are "pro-abortion." It's unfortunate, that for whatever reason, rape, incest, irresponsibility of American youth today, etc that this has to happen. On the flip side, you know we have many children in oprhanages & adoption centers around the country, who is going to provide them with a family, education, health care & all around safe environment to grow & develop in, when so many babies are being brought into this world? That being said, I am still not "pro-abortion" put in that situation, I'm honestly not entirely sure what I'd decide to do, but I think it's the woman's choice...therefore I am "pro-choice."
 designingwoman
Joined: 9/4/2005
Msg: 191
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History
Abortion & Politics
Posted: 9/22/2008 6:29:25 PM
The issue has become too politicized and there's not enough focus on adoption as the best choice of all, under most circumstances. Not enough is being done to help kids who need a loving place to call home. There's not enough media attention to adoption as a better choice.

Abortion should not be used as a form of birth control. With that said, one must consider what a rape victim is going through.
 cosmopolitician
Joined: 7/19/2008
Msg: 192
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History
Abortion & Politics
Posted: 9/25/2008 8:51:07 AM

"Heh any law that refers to "partial birth abortion" is a non starter. Thats a non medical term, it's an actual invention of anti choicers so they can portray it as something it is not."


Absolutely...the politically-correct term is "late-term" abortion. Just FYI.
 designingwoman
Joined: 9/4/2005
Msg: 198
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History
Abortion & Politics
Posted: 10/6/2008 9:36:25 PM
Also, voting for a bad politician just because he's "against abortion" is unwise, and isn't necessarily "pro life." There are other life issues to consider, such as unnecessary wars such as the one in Iraq, the death penalty, providing healthcare for poor children, promoting adoptions, caring for our environment--which sustains us ALL--, and ensuring that working families can have a decent living wage to name a few. McCain's stances on the war, torture, the death penalty, healthcare for children who are already born, and the environment are very much anti-life in my book. People should look at the big picture instead of voting on only one issue. Life isn't that simple.
 Ready4SomethingFun
Joined: 3/17/2008
Msg: 200
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History
Abortion & Politics
Posted: 1/5/2009 2:06:15 PM
This is a question that has always bothered me.

Why is it that abortion isn't considered murder, but if a women carrying a child is murdered, the murderer is often charged with double murder? Wouldn't it just be murder and abortion? Seems like the old double standard is at play here.
 d0rene
Joined: 6/7/2008
Msg: 201
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History
Abortion & Politics
Posted: 1/5/2009 7:23:57 PM
If we could find a way to reverse the stigma of having a child.... If you could make it less of a horrible thing that a woman feels unable to take care of a child and more emotionally acceptable to turn it over to someone else.

It takes two people to have a child, but birth only requires one person to be present and society has a very judgemental view of women who feel unable to raise their children. Men can take the option, "Well, I'm not sure it's mine.." something that thankfully can be very easily proven these days- women can't unless they choose to hide the pregnancy and delivery. Pregnancy is stressful enough, woman give their strength, health, and energy to support a fetus. That is stressful enough without having to deal with the lack of emotional support and stress of people knowing you are pregnant. During that pregnancy your body is completely changed. Some have very peaceful, healthy pregnancies, others go through a living hell that makes changes their their health does not recover from.

Oddly, the younger you are in your pregnancy, the healthier it usually is. Something that society today frowns on. Rather than have a child at a young age, wait until you are stable and can afford the infertitlity experts and physical problems for both the woman and the child in their thirties.
 designingwoman
Joined: 9/4/2005
Msg: 203
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History
Abortion & Politics
Posted: 1/12/2009 4:05:14 PM
Eman 101 is someone I would call a genuine pro-lifer. Someone who is against BOTH abortion and the death penalty is TRULY pro life in my book

Not enough is said about the value of adoption as an alternative to abortion. Also, we need to do more for children who are already born.
 sd_matt
Joined: 7/9/2006
Msg: 205
Abortion & Politics
Posted: 3/8/2009 8:44:35 PM
Yeah
If you believe that EVERYONE is entitled to protection from death and bodily harm then you would be against abortion. For me it would be after the baby becomes conscious. By the same token if I were brain dead on a hospital bed then pull the plug. If you abort before the baby becomes conscious then it never knows the difference and Im ok with that.

Anyways its a very big contradiction on the part of people to say that they represent equality and yet advocate abortion after the fetus becomes viable. If I cant raise a child and give it the life I intended then I would give it up for adoption. Let it grow up and decide for itself if the life it ended up with is worth living. But to have an abortion for the same reason is not in line with free will and self determination.
 sd_matt
Joined: 7/9/2006
Msg: 207
Abortion & Politics
Posted: 3/12/2009 8:32:58 PM
Wendy
When does a baby become conscious? That's a tough one to answer. The best info I can think of is to ask science. If I had any doubt or it was right on the line then I would keep the baby, if I were a woman.

Overcrowded orphanage or death. I would choose orphanage. But maybe the baby would choose death after growing up all dissatisfied with life. I would let the baby make that decision. Since I'm not a mind reader then I will go with the route that gives the baby the most choices.
 p0lisciguy
Joined: 6/28/2009
Msg: 212
Abortion & Politics
Posted: 7/28/2009 5:13:07 AM
Government shouldn't be in the business of regulating reproduction. That's Nazi territory. Legal abortion? Yes. 58 kids without a dollar in your pocket or a lick of sense in your head? Absolutely. Personal choice is paramount to freedom.
 Tarnished_Knight
Joined: 3/5/2009
Msg: 221
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History
Abortion & Politics
Posted: 10/14/2009 4:55:36 PM

The Democratic is party is the one largely in favor of this


What I find interesting and ironic is that the same political party that will go the ends of the earth to defend the worthless miserable lives of terrorists, who by definition blow up innocent people, are also willing to go to the ends of the earth to legalize and legitimize those who are willing to poke holes in an (innocent) unborn child's head, suck it's brains into a sink, rip it's limbs off, and dispose of the remains in a garbage sack.

At least we know that they are consistent.

At least we know their character.

TK
 wisguyingb
Joined: 1/5/2008
Msg: 222
Abortion & Politics
Posted: 10/14/2009 4:59:01 PM
Would the left be up in arms if someone was to open a abortion clinic for dogs and cats?

For the record I think that abortion should be a state issue. Not a federal issue.
 EarlzP
Joined: 12/9/2007
Msg: 223
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History
Abortion & Politics
Posted: 10/15/2009 8:34:02 PM

What I find interesting and ironic is that the same political party that will go the ends of the earth to defend the worthless miserable lives of terrorists, who by definition blow up innocent people, are also willing to go to the ends of the earth to legalize and legitimize those who are willing to poke holes in an (innocent) unborn child's head, suck it's brains into a sink, rip it's limbs off, and dispose of the remains in a garbage sack.

At least we know that they are consistent.

At least we know their character.


The issue of abortion should be and will remain a choice that a woman will make concerning what she wants.

You seem to have conveniently forgoten the 100s of thousands of innocent men women and children who became death statistics as we chased down terrorist in Iraq that were in Afganistan, don't walking talking human beings have a meaning to you? Did those innocent civilians have a choice?
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