Plentyoffish dating forums are a place to meet singles and get dating advice or share dating experiences etc. Hopefully you will all have fun meeting singles and try out this online dating thing... Remember that we are the largest free online dating service, so you will never have to pay a dime to meet your soulmate.
     
Show ALL Forums  > Current Events  >      Home login  
 AUTHOR
 paddler
Joined: 9/29/2004
Msg: 230
view profile
History
Michel Moore's New Film SickoPage 11 of 15    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15)
Regardless of what you may think of Moore because of his stand on Iraq, by the way he was right about the reasons for the war being wrong, no WMD's. He does bbring to light some disturbing fact about the US healthcare system.

Not to get into anything in the movie, but consider that you need health services when your really young or really old. Two times in your life when you don't have an income, so how smart is it to have a for-profit healthcare system? What kind of care are you going to recieve when the hospital has profit as the priority not patient well being?

There's a good reason every single industrializsed nation on earth, except the United States, has universal healthcare. Personally, I think the debate is long over-due.
 im outa here
Joined: 5/29/2007
Msg: 239
Michel Moore's New Film Sicko
Posted: 7/13/2007 7:00:42 PM
we have socialized medicine already. medicare and medicaid.
its just not for everyone.
 im outa here
Joined: 5/29/2007
Msg: 243
Michel Moore's New Film Sicko
Posted: 7/14/2007 1:53:13 PM
granted , there is so many problems with it...as my friend from the north so eligantly put it...
we spend way too much for way too little...while big medicine make billions/year
being self employed i don't have access to a health care plan that benifits from many members. ie a company policy.
with the high premiums and the dedutibles and the 20% you owe of the total, that is enough to bankrupt someone by itself.
i have health insuranc for my daughter and life insurance for me...and the grim reality is i will die if i get seriously sick...

michael moore is fighting for a cause I agree with.
 RedneckJedi
Joined: 4/1/2006
Msg: 244
Michel Moore's New Film Sicko
Posted: 7/14/2007 4:21:27 PM
Michel Moore is a big fat douche everyone should wise up.
you can not depend on the government to take care of you.
if you do you will be as S.O.L as the people after katrina hit.
we need a smaller federal government and less red tape, not "Moore"
of it.

from what ive heard so far even the liberals on CNN said his
latest propaganda film was a bomb. thats pretty bad....
 JustKelly70
Joined: 2/9/2007
Msg: 246
view profile
History
Michel Moore's New Film Sicko
Posted: 7/14/2007 6:02:33 PM
I'm not a fan of MM, not a fan of anyone really, Hey he finds away to make a Buck or two or a million, Hell I'd do the same thing, I'm sure he does do some research into the topic before proceding. So Alot of what he does must have some legitimate legs to stand on. Any lawsuits against him???, Could be, I did'nt read this entire thread, It's a bit difficult , Mostly 2 guys having a disagreement here. I have not seen the film and it seems most posting here have not either. Sooo how can you post about something you know little about. Do I intend to see the film, naaaa, if it comes out on tv sure, I could care less. This became a debat between health care systems, was that the intent of the OP?
 capegardengirl
Joined: 4/29/2006
Msg: 248
Michel Moore's New Film Sicko
Posted: 7/15/2007 9:13:47 PM
I work as a therapist , have been for 20 years and Moores film was right on target regarding managed care...I once had to threaten a HMO rep with legal action in order to get my client hospitalized..3 hours of practically screaming and yelling....Oh, and I didnt get paid for any of that..All on "my time".....As a provider you jump thru all sort of hoops and barriers set up by people who have no training as a doctor, nurse or therapist....Many with just a few years of college...Who decide what providers should do with clients, what care should be given and what their treatmentr plan should be...Never mind that they live in Califonia and the client has never talked to them or met them.....Funny how those conservatives in the 70s and 80s all warned against govt. socialized medicine not allowing people to choose their own doctors and hospitals and what coverage they needed..Well, thats exackly what privatized healthcare has done!...It is a business....Whose goal is to make money at our expense.....By providing as less care as possible with as few services as possible.....Funny how the USA refuses to consider socialized medicine in this country but they pay for free socialized healthcare for everyone in Iraq!!!..And have been since the war began..Wonders how many people actually know this.....I was shocked when I learned that...Makes the war supporters and socialized medicine haters look like hypocrites ignorant of what their what own country is funding behind their backs...Bush has remained very quiet on this for good reason..Get educated people and protest and protect your rights...Cos no one else will
 Montreal_Guy
Joined: 3/8/2004
Msg: 254
view profile
History
Michel Moore's New Film Sicko
Posted: 8/10/2007 8:59:40 PM
I dragged a Candadian date to his last film. My date and his father were apparently HUGE Bush fans.

When we walked out, he was pretty speechless.

Michael Moore is not perfect. He is not National Geographic.

But he sure gets the facts and rumor out for debate, and if you can move this continent toward discourse, holy shyte! You have power.


I agree.

One wonderful thing I discovered about Moore, with all his faults (and like anyone else he has those) is that he's this very rare combination of two things.

The first is that he's an American that can take a look at his country through the eyes of a foreigner. That's rare in any country, and especially so in the US.


"Some men see things as they are and say why - I dream things that never were and say why not."
-- George Bernard Shaw


The world, and any society, needs people like this to challenge it towards a better future for all it's citizens. All too often we get trapped, all of us, in paradigms. The world around us is "normal", and we come to accept it without asking ourselves why that is.

The second is that he's able to use modern media to promote his films, in a very successful way.

As you said, that opens a debate, and allows people (like us) to discuss the pros and cons of what he's saying. That's quite needed today, if we are to address the problems society has.

No society will ever be perfect....but they can be made better through debate and dissent.
 lovableladywanted
Joined: 5/14/2006
Msg: 255
Michel Moore's New Film Sicko
Posted: 8/12/2007 7:06:57 AM
I have not seen the movie . I can only say that I have heard wonderful things about it and I plan to see it when it comes to payperview , which should be soon.When I see it I will make my objective judgment. What gets me is when the faux media... people like Bill O'Reilly, Rush, Savage criticize the movie without ever seeing it. Seems to me that is the ultimate epitome of stupid. If that does not tell 'listeners'...er sheep lmao that these guys are morons , than nothing else will . I for example have heard that PASSION OF CHRIST is antisemetic. I have not seen the movie so I can not make that judgment. Thats the difference between miseducated people , like O'Reilly and Hannity etc , and intellectually sound individuals like myself. I do know the movie points out the breach of health plans , which is very scary. I think it is an important movie , but will make my opinion known AFTER I see it.
 Keithslegacy
Joined: 6/20/2007
Msg: 258
view profile
History
Michel Moore's New Film Sicko
Posted: 8/13/2007 7:00:58 PM
The US medical system works really well for you if you have some kind of insurance or a decent amount of money.

Otherwise, not so much......Yeah, we can get into most places quickly and easily, but those without SOME kind of coverage get RAPED like a pedophile in prison.

I mean, say I wind up getting a massive migrane and had to go to the emergency room......$400!!! For just getting seen by a doctor for a few moments and having my heart/temp checked.....Oh, and he might write me a prescription so I can go pay ANOTHER $100 for the pills I might need.

And God Forbid I get a pill or something at the ER.....Another $50 and $10 for the glass of pop they give me to wash it down with.

Think I'm beefing this up higher than it is? Look at your Emergency Room/Doctor bill the next time you go.....Look at all the things they charge you an arm and a leg for doing.

Our medial system IS a scam, and although I might not agree with Michael Moore's motives and methods 100% of the time......he DOES raise really good points and questions about things that can't be as easily ignored.

And why does anyone that cracks on MM have to bring up his weight? Jeez....crack on the guy for his politics or whatever, but cracking on the dude's weight all the time is just......Petty and REALLY sh$%ty, IMO. I mean, would YOU like if someone picked out your physical flaws and just BLASTED you over and over for it?

Like that has ANYTHING to do with whether he's right or wrong. Grow the F$^k up!!!
 Bezukhov
Joined: 7/14/2007
Msg: 260
Michel Moore's New Film Sicko
Posted: 8/13/2007 9:57:56 PM
Elementary economic theory would favor parents paying for their children’s elementary school education at the best school that they can afford. Why should my tax dollars go to help someone else’s kids better compete with me. Same goes for law enforcement: let the ones with the most to lose pay for police protection. And, for that matter, military protection. Let’s make all roads toll roads. Let’s let everyone sink or swim; isn’t that the conservative/libertarian ideal? Or we can all agree that the country best prospers when the greatest number of its citizens prosper, and that the best course is to collectively provide, as more civilized nations do, for the most pressing needs of our people, including medical care. Like law enforcement and military readiness, it’s a matter of life and death.

BTW, which basic economic theory are you espousing: Keynsian, Austrian, Marxist. No, let me guess: supply side? That’s working very well for a very few people here in the US.
 Bezukhov
Joined: 7/14/2007
Msg: 261
Michel Moore's New Film Sicko
Posted: 8/13/2007 10:06:25 PM
“The philosophical underpinning of violating the drug companies' IP is always "life is more precious than money". There is some truth to that of course. But the irony is that if it is applied without limit it would mean the drugs never could have been developed in the first place, since it takes a large amount of money to do so.”

There was a time when much research was done in universities and shared freely for the greater good, the chemists and universities gaining mostly prestige. Other schools and laboratories could then take this research and build upon it, rather like open-source software. Now everyone, including, universities, is increasisngly secretive and proprietary, even going so far as to patent a snippet of genetic code that indicates cancer, and threatening a doctor with litigation for using that information to diagnose breast cancer. Other research that might once have interested scientists enough to work on developing cures for devastating but uncommon diseases are now passed over in favor of research more likely to turn a profit for the university. It turns out greed is not good, after all.
 Bezukhov
Joined: 7/14/2007
Msg: 263
Wow what a responce
Posted: 8/13/2007 10:25:30 PM
Cuba also offered to send Doctors and a hospital ship when our government so shamefully abandoned its citizens along the Gulf Coast. We declined. BushCo would rather have people dying in the streets than risk losing face by accepting help from those commies. Curiously, Communist China, which is responsible for some real atrocities, gets a pass.

I worked with evacuees in Knoxville for a week and then went down to Missississippi for a week, hauling down donated supplies and working to repair wind damage inland (with one trip to Biloxi). While in a staging ground in Ovett I met some folks from a group called Green Circus who were hauling busloads of stuff down to the coast. They had to sneak food and supplies in like smugglers, as the Federal Marshals were turning back relief efforts.

A lot of parallels. Many of those victims also thought their insurance would take care of them. Mistakenly. And our government resisted mollycoddling them; those with money and resources did okay; the rest, in keeping with conservative/libertarian philosphy, sank or swam.
 Bezukhov
Joined: 7/14/2007
Msg: 264
Wow what a responce
Posted: 8/13/2007 10:30:50 PM
No, the timid and the ignorant will accept what our corporate masters deign to give them, their health care consisting of bending over for their promised prostate exam.

Of course, if you live entirely off the land, eschewing the use of government schools, roads, police protection, libraries, weather service, unemployment compensation, workmen’s comp or social security, then I must applaud you for your rugged independence. Unless, of course, you happen to be on government land.
 Bezukhov
Joined: 7/14/2007
Msg: 265
Michel Moore's New Film Sicko
Posted: 8/13/2007 10:39:14 PM
“And I read somewhere he went with some poor guy to Cuba to get care. You think he would even give a shit about that guy if he didn't need a subject for a stupid documentry??”

Well, I think he would; I think the concern Mike expresses in his movies would be difficult to fake. I don’t always agree with his opinions, but by God, I admire his commitment to what he believes in. I wish I could accomplish half as much in advancing my own causes.

And, yeah, there’s a bit about Mike taking some of the volunteers from 9/11 rescue efforts whom our government and our health establishment wouldn’t help down to Cuba when the staff at Guantanomo Bay wouldn’t help them. In fact, it’s a major part of the movie.

I came on here to seek pleasant conversation with ladies and find myself arguing the merits of a movie with people who haven’t seen it. My bad. I must resist that impulse in future. It’s pointless for thinking people to argue with those who are, largely, copy-pasting Rush Limbaugh and friends into the comment fields. They don’t calle themselves “Ditto-heads” for nothing.
 prolibertate
Joined: 9/11/2005
Msg: 267
Michel Moore's New Film Sicko
Posted: 8/21/2007 4:12:18 PM

Truly a sad story and maybe even avoidable perhaps? It's easy to point the finger at the guy but even still I have to say I'm glad our health care system negates the need for such a desperate act to be even thought about.



This is *not* a case of being unable to pay bills. Illegal immigrants can get medical care here at NO cost, so can anyone; and many people can get Medicaid. I wouldn't doubt that they'll find out this guy either had life insurance on her, or possibly he simply wanted to live life without having any responsibility for, or ties to, a wife...and if he's found to have a girlfriend, he may have killed his wife because some find it hard to divorce an ill spouse. What other reason could he have had to take his wife out of her mother's home - where she'd been for a number of months - and a few days later he kills her?

There's always more to a story than first thought:
http://www.kansascity.com/115/story/235445.html

http://www.kctv5.com/news/13896613/detail.html
A Nelson-Atkins official who refused to be named said Reimer had worked in the museum's finance department since 1996 and that the museum offers full family insurance coverage to its employees. She would not say if the Reimers had that coverage, citing privacy concerns.

http://www.photius.com/rankings/who_world_health_ranks.html
Moore's rankings are from 2000 - a bit dated, I'd say.

http://www.who.int/whr/2006/whr06_en.pdf
In the latest WHO report, the America have the most healthcare workers overall;

http://www.who.int/whr/2006/annex/06_annex2_en.pdf
Total expenditure on health per GDP as of 2003:
Canada 9.2. USA 15.2
 georgiabulldogfan
Joined: 9/22/2007
Msg: 268
view profile
History
Michel Moore's New Film Sicko
Posted: 11/7/2007 1:51:53 AM
MM can really put a spin on a movie. What gets me he shows the usa as a poor stuggling society like for instance the part bout the poor people who couldn't afford health care were just dumped on the side of the road and he shows France as a paradise, People just living it up with free medical care, sipping wine and couples cuddling in the park with no worries bout life.

Im sure universal health care has it's pros and cons. But the biggest obstacle is sky rocketing taxes and piss ant doctors. I'm sure Hilary Clinton got the answer lke he protrays in the movie. But she is not pushing the FREE HEALTH CARE SYSTEM! WE ARE STILL GOING TO PAY OUT THE FREAKIN !@#. She just wants poor people who can't pay.....PAY!!!!. Just don't make a bit of freakin sence.

Botton line is Universal Health Care WILL NOT WORK IN THE USA!!! The only way I see this working is thru tax dollars and its free. That way everyone is treated fairly. But the way it looks someday everybody citizen or not if they just step foot on american soil Then they are covered! 50 million mexicans who would usually not be covered are now covered. So put all this into the pie what do you have???? People who currently paying 60 dollars a week and a 1,500 deductable will soon pay 200 a week and a 5,000 deductable.

In order for health care for everyone in usa to work is that it has to be taxed based and free.

Democrats wants everyone covered so premiums can go thru the roof.

Republicans knows the outcome of this situation and would rather seek better options.
 georgiabulldogfan
Joined: 9/22/2007
Msg: 270
view profile
History
Michel Moore's New Film Sicko
Posted: 11/8/2007 12:12:06 AM
I just read the hr 676 admendment this is my conclusion.

It would elimate private health care so no more competition.
It is taxed based thru your employer. Instead of a portion taken out for health insurance it would be replaced thru another tax system.
All expenses will be covered, co-pay, deductable, even the 10 to 20 percent that is usually not covered with the system after the deductable will be also paid in full.
Everyone is covered period!
Employers will have to provide this but thru a tax system.
Pre-existing conditions will be covered
All illnesses will be covered
There is no discremenation.
Doctors and hospitals will lose little or if nothing in profits.
Hospitals would require less staff due to no need to be hassled with insurance and payment history etc, etc.
People will not have to worry with homes being foreclosed due to medical reasons.
No medical debt all be payed for by the tax system.
Prescriptions will also be covered.

If im correct it's got my vote!!
 oregonmeetsmesa
Joined: 9/22/2005
Msg: 271
Michel Moore's New Film Sicko
Posted: 11/8/2007 1:16:18 AM
His film was fantastic,the facts are public record,I could care less how much he makes on a movie or how he portrays himself,how exactly does that tarnish the facts,most of these things I already knew from public records and news and seeing it firsthand as an eyewitness,Moore merely put it together as a complete work ,and did it well,and showed those that didn't already know how well some other countries actually care for their people,they probably jailed or shot all their lobbists.It is so so dumb to discount factual work because you don't like the messenger,this is why nothing ever changes,you write off all the facts because you don't like the person.So if he had done a Hitler expose would you of doubted the extermination of the jews because Moore did the film.Did many of you dislike the global warming movie Gore did ,because Gore made it and that was your only reason.Many in this country have an odd way of seeing things.I was shocked with Clintons fall, that for all the great things and all the iffy things he did,many discounted everything he ever accomplished as a president because he was unfaithful to his wife,it wouldn't have even made the news in Europe.Even my mother and some of her church friends chose Bush second term,even knowing he had done so much terrible wrong,and their only reason was because they believed he was a better Christian than Gore,if thats not just the dumbest reason to pick the leader of the free world,picking a man solely for religion , which is why we have an idiot for a president,geez maybe we should get Jimmy Swaggart in there then,because he apologizes better when he sins .Until our country starts worrying about only whats important then nothing will change.Don't shoot the messenger !
 capegardengirl
Joined: 4/29/2006
Msg: 272
Michel Moore's New Film Sicko
Posted: 11/8/2007 12:35:13 PM
GREAT post!.. Oregon..Every word you say is so true...many look at the messanger rather than the message..
 capegardengirl
Joined: 4/29/2006
Msg: 273
Michel Moore's New Film Sicko
Posted: 11/8/2007 12:37:16 PM
MM can really put a spin on a movie"

And OReilly doesnt every nite of the week for the past DECADE????????????..Get real...We have to listen to his drivel every nite while MM puts out one film every few years or so....If it were someone you believed in, it wouldnt matter what kind of spin was put on it..Conservatives can be such hypocrites..
 want to travel
Joined: 7/29/2006
Msg: 274
view profile
History
Michel Moore's New Film Sicko
Posted: 1/7/2008 7:39:10 PM
we all love the people that live in the usa,i personally have half my family that live in cali
but really folks, its time to get real, too many firearms , too much violence, and too many good people without health care
i have one sister who works in Canada, the other in the united states , and lets face it... it is true that our American cousins, pay more for health care than any other developed country, and get very little in return
it is also true that the Amercan's have done very little in the the reserch department, well at least not much in the past 20 to 30 years, Europe leads the way in that department
as far as the movie goes, the part i found most disturbing was the 911 workers, these people are hero's and deserve to be treated as such
our health care system has seen better day's , but at least not one person is turned away
Canada can learn much from Europe
 jed456
Joined: 4/26/2005
Msg: 275
view profile
History
Michel Moore's New Film Sicko
Posted: 2/9/2008 11:08:32 AM
BOMBED so who cares?

Sicko opened in the U.S. exclusively on a single screen at the AMC Lincoln Square theater in Manhattan the weekend of June 22–24, 2007, earning $68,969 per screen, then opened nationwide the weekend of June 29–July 1, 2007, earning $4,501,712 in 441 theaters and achieving the second highest nationwide opening weekend for a documentary, after Fahrenheit 9/11.[1


 jed456
Joined: 4/26/2005
Msg: 276
view profile
History
Michel Moore's New Film Sicko
Posted: 2/9/2008 11:12:10 AM
Sicko earned $4.5 million on its opening weekend.[11] In 441 theaters, it took in an average of $10,204 per theater, the second highest average gross of the weekend. As of October 17, 2007, Sicko has grossed $24,535,082 in the United States. It has been named the third-highest grossing documentary in the USA since 1982 excluding concert movies, reality films, and "large-format" documentaries.Yeah guess it was a bomb.

Theatrical Performance
Total US Gross $24,538,513
International Gross $9,000,000
Worldwide Gross $33,538,513
Home Market Performance
US DVD Sales: $18,923,357 Weekly Breakdown
Show ALL Forums  > Current Events  >