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 AUTHOR
 betterlate
Joined: 12/22/2006
Msg: 206
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History
Michel Moore's New Film SickoPage 4 of 15    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15)
each time someone points out that we are being fleeced out of our hard earned money by HUGE corporations, someone says..... "it is not that bad", or I hate that guy or totally misses the message. Our government is corrupt, there are a select few making billions off of us and instead of protecting us, they are selling us out. The bought and paid for politicians should be jailed along with the lobbyists.... and special interest groups that fund everything from vacations, gifts and just about anything else for the political reps we elected into office to fight for us, not rip us off.

Why cant we as a country stand up and demand better from our pathetic government??

I dont really want to hear the answers.... I am sure someone will say that is the way it has to be... or if I dont like it move it Canada... or something equally pathetic..and rude..
At least MM is willing to take the heat while exposing the scams we tolerate...

millions of illegal aliens are getting free health care and could soon get free social security... hmmm how much are we willing to put up with????

When will it be "enough"????
 Montreal_Guy
Joined: 3/8/2004
Msg: 213
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History
Michel Moore's New Film Sicko
Posted: 6/30/2007 1:19:12 AM

t compares American health care with the universal coverage systems in Canada, France, the United Kingdom and Cuba.

Moore covers a lot of ground. Our team investigated some of the claims put forth in his film. We found that his numbers were mostly right, but his arguments could use a little more context. As we dug deep to uncover the numbers, we found surprisingly few inaccuracies in the film. In fact, most pundits or health-care experts we spoke to spent more time on errors of omission rather than disputing the actual claims in the film.

Whether it's dollars spent, group coverage or Medicaid income cutoffs, health care goes hand in hand with numbers. Moore opens his film by giving these statistics, "Fifty million uninsured Americans ... 18,000 people die because they are uninsured." (Review: "Sicko" a tonic despite flaws)

For the most part, that's true. The latest numbers from the Centers for Disease Control and Preventionexternal link say 43.6 million, or about 15 percent of Americans, were uninsured in 2006. For the past five years, the overall count has fluctuated between 41 million and 44 million people. According to the Institute of Medicineexternal link, 18,000 people do die each year mainly because they are less likely to receive screening and preventive care for chronic diseases.

Moore says that the U.S. spends more of its gross domestic product on health care than any other country.

Again, that's true. The United States spends more than 15 percent of its GDP on health care -- no other nation even comes close to that number. France spends about 11 percent, and Canadians spend 10 percent.

Like Moore, we also found that more money does not equal better care. Both the French and Canadian systems rank in the Top 10 of the world's best health-care systems, according to the World Health Organizationexternal link. The United States comes in at No. 37. The rankings are based on general health of the population, access, patient satisfaction and how the care's paid for.

So, if Americans are paying so much and they're not getting as good or as much care, where is all the money going? "Overhead for most private health insurance plans range between 10 percent to 30 percent," says Deloitte health-care analyst Paul Keckley. Overhead includes profit and administrative costs.

"Compare that to Medicare, which only has an overhead rate of 1 percent. Medicare is an extremely efficient health-care delivery system," says Mark Meaney, a health-care ethicist for the National Institute for Patient Rightsexternal link.

Moore spends about half his film detailing the wonders and the benefits of the government-funded universal health-care systems in Canada, France, Cuba and the United Kingdom. He shows calm, content people in waiting rooms and people getting care in hospitals hassle free. People laugh and smile as he asks about billing departments and cost of stay.

Not surprisingly, it's not that simple. In most other countries, there are quotas and planned waiting times. Everyone does have access to basic levels of care. That care plan is formulated by teams of government physicians and officials who determine what's to be included in the universal basic coverage and how a specific condition is treated. If you want treatment outside of that standard plan, then you have to pay for it yourself.

"In most developed health systems in the world, 15 percent to 20 percent of the population buys medical services outside of the system of care run by the government. They do it through supplemental insurance, or they buy services out of pocket," Keckley says.

The people who pay more tend to be in the upper income or have special, more complicated conditions.

Moore focuses on the private insurance companies and makes no mention of the U.S. government-funded health-care systems such as Medicare, Medicaid, the State Children's Health Insurance Program and the Veterans Affairs health-care systems. About 50 percent of all health-care dollars spent in the United States flows through these government systems.

"Sicko" also ignores a handful of good things about the American system. Believe it or not, the United States does rank highest in the patient satisfaction category. Americans do have shorter wait times than everyone but Germans when it comes to nonemergency elective surgery such as hip replacements, cataract removal or knee repair.

That's no surprise given the number of U.S. specialists. In U.S. medical schools, students training to become primary-care physicians have dwindled to 10 percent. The overwhelming majority choose far more profitable specialties in the medical field. In other countries, more than one out of three aspiring doctors chooses primary care in part because there's less of an income gap with specialists. In those nations, becoming a specialist means making 30 percent more than a primary-care physician. In the United States, the gap is around 300 percent, according to Keckley.

As Americans continue to spend $2 trillion a year on health care, everyone agrees on one point: Things need to change, and it will take more than a movie to figure out how to get there.



http://www.cnn.com/2007/HEALTH/06/28/sicko.fact.check/index.html


Looks like the overall accuracy of the film is pretty well based on the truth. At least from there Americans can start a discussion and work towards improving their quality of life.
 jacobite45
Joined: 2/6/2007
Msg: 215
Michel Moore's New Film Sicko
Posted: 6/30/2007 4:32:03 AM
I have a Masters Degree in Public Health and a B.S. in Healthcare Mgt; however, I am part of the military healthcare system and have been for 26 years. A national healthcare system could be based on the military model, it is kind of ironic to me that most of the technicians and even the first line of medical service in the military are trained in military schools in a fraction of the time civilian classes take. Those technicians i.e. x-ray techs, pharmacy, O.R, and even the Navy Independent Duty Corpsman, who see patients independent of a Medical Officer, are compareable and often superior to their civilian counterparts because they have multiple skill sets rather than just one.
 jacobite45
Joined: 2/6/2007
Msg: 216
Michel Moore's New Film Sicko
Posted: 6/30/2007 5:00:05 AM
By the way, most of our providers, that is Drs and Specialists, are paid the same pay as any other Military Officer of their Pay Grade with a specialty bonus ranging from ten to thirty thousand a year depending on the specialty. A previous poster pointed out that only 10 percent of current medical students plans to practice "general medicine" because of the pay disparity between specialists and general medical providers; in the military you are going to "do your time" as a general medical officer for a few years before you are allowed to pick a specialty.

The main way that we get these Drs in the military is by paying for their medical school and then requiring them to "pay back time" in the military for the cost of their education and training. If they take a Residency Program (specialty) while in the military they again incur an additional payback time in military service.

One sad part is that many, not all, of these Drs are lured out of the service after completing their required obligation because they can triple their saleries in the private sector, even though they are living comfortably and enjoy the work that they are doing.

I have to ask myself if military healthcare providers can live comfortably and enjoy the work while in the military healthcare system why do civilian doctors need a salary that is triple what a military provider makes? The answer to that is alot of the "overhead cost" associated with healthcare.

Nationalize the healthcare system, similar to the military system, and you would eliminate alot of the overhead cost associated with healthcare, as well as, the cost that redundancy creates.

I have known civilian Doctors that join the Navy after years in private practice because they want to enjoy the practice of medicine and not be forced to see patients every 15 minutes to keep up with HMO regulations or because they are struggling under the cost of malpractice insurance. Ask any Dr that was once a military healthcare provider and, if they are honest, most will still tell you that the military system was a better system for the patient.

It may not be as simple as it seems and there would be hicups and stumbling blocks along the way but it can be done and needs to be done. Perhaps my "Public" Health background is skewing me toward believing that healthcare should be about serving the public and the patient; almost 40 million people with no access to healthcare in this country hardly seems like we are serving either the public intrest or patients.
 jacobite45
Joined: 2/6/2007
Msg: 217
Michel Moore's New Film Sicko
Posted: 6/30/2007 5:23:19 AM
When I read some of the comments, both from people who say that people needing help are begging from the government and from those who associate Michael Moore being an Ass with a reason to discount the message of the broken healthcare industry, I am reminded by another message that was powerful but lost because of the association of the message to the person who delivered the message. It is the best political speech I ever heard and I am a Republican, I wish that we had listened to that message in 1988 because it may have given us a headstart in fixing some of our current issues.

Transcript of RealAudio Excerpt
Jessie Jacksons Speech at the 1988 Democratic national Convention

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Common ground. America is not a blanket woven from one thread, one color, one cloth. When I was a child growing up in Greenville, South Carolina my grandmama could not afford a blanket, she didn't complain and we did not freeze. Instead she took pieces of old cloth - patches, wool, silk, gabardine, crockersack - only patches, barely good enough to wipe off your shoes with. But they didn't stay that way very long. With sturdy hands and a strong cord, she sewed them together into a quilt, a thing of beauty and power and culture.
Now, Democrats, we must build such a quilt.

Farmers, you seek fair prices and you are right - but you cannot stand alone. Your patch is not big enough. Workers, you fight for fair wages, you are right - but your patch of labor is not big enough. Women, you seek comparable worth and pay equity, you are right - but your patch is not big enough. (Applause)

Women, mothers, who seek Head Start, and day care and prenatal care on the front side of life, relevant jail care and welfare on the back side of life - you are right - but your patch is not big enough. Students, you seek scholarships, you are right - but your patch is not big enough. Blacks and Hispanics, when we fight for civil rights, we are right - but our patch is not big enough.

Gays and lesbians, when you fight against discrimination and a cure for AIDS, you are right - but your patch is not big enough. Conservatives and progressives, when you fight for what you believe, right wing, left wing, hawk, dove, you are right from your point of view, but your point of view is not enough.

But don't despair. Be as wise as my grandmama. Pull the patches and the pieces together, bound by a common thread. When we form a great quilt of unity and common ground, we'll have the power to bring about health care and housing and jobs and education and hope to our Nation. (Standing ovation)

We, the people, can win!

Most poor people are not lazy. They are not black. They are not brown. They are mostly White and female and young. But whether White, Black or Brown, a hungry baby's belly turned inside out is the same color-- color it pain, color it hurt, color it agony.

Most poor people are not on welfare. Some of them are illiterate and can't read the want-ad sections. And when they can, they can't find a job that matches the address. They work hard everyday. I know, I live amongst them. They catch the early bus. They work every day. They raise other people's children. They work everyday.

They clean the streets. They work everyday. They drive dangerous cabs. They change the beds you slept in in these hotels last night and can't get a union contract. They work everyday. (Applause)

No, no, they're not lazy. Someone must defend them because it's right and they cannot speak for themselves. They work in hospitals. I know they do. They wipe the bodies of those who are sick with fever and pain. They empty their bedpans. They clean out their commodes. No job is beneath them, and yet when they get sick they cannot lie in the bed they made up every day. America, that is not right (Applause) We are a better Nation than that! (Applause)

I'm often asked, "Jesse, why do you take on these tough issues? They're not very political. We can't win that way."

If an issue is morally right, it will eventually be political. It may be political and never be right. Fanny Lou Hamer didn't have the most votes in Atlantic City, but her principles have outlasted the life of every delegate who voted to lock her out. Rosa Parks did not have the most votes, but she was morally right. Dr. King didn't have the most votes about the Vietnam War, but he was morally right. If we are principled first, our politics will fall in place. "Jesse, why do you take these big bold initiatives?" A poem by an unknown author went something like this: "We mastered the air, we conquered the sea, annihilated distance and prolonged life, but we're not wise enough to live on this earth without war and without hate."

As for Jesse Jackson: "I'm tired of sailing my little boat, far inside the harbor bar. I want to go out where the big ships float, out on the deep where the great ones are. And should my frail craft prove too slight for waves that sweep those billows o'er, I'd rather go down in the stirring fight than drowse to death at the sheltered shore."

We've got to go out, my friends, where the big boats are. (Applause)

And then for our children. Young America, hold your head high now. We can win. We must not lose to the drugs, and violence, premature pregnancy, suicide, cynicism, pessimism and despair. We can win. Wherever you are tonight, now I challenge you to hope and to dream. Don't submerge your dreams. Exercise above all else, even on drugs, dream of the day you are drug free. Even in the gutter, dream of the day that you will be up on your feet again.

You must never stop dreaming. Face reality, yes, but don't stop with the way things are. Dream of things as they ought to be. Dream. Face pain, but love, hope, faith and dreams will help you rise above the pain. Use hope and imagination as weapons of survival and progress, but you keep on dreaming, young America. Dream of peace. Peace is rational and reasonable. War is irrational in this age, and unwinnable.

Dream of teachers who teach for life and not for a living. Dream of doctors who are concerned more about public health than private wealth. Dream of lawyers more concerned about justice than a judgeship. Dream of preachers who are concerned more about prophecy than profiteering. Dream on the high road with sound values.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/jesse/speeches/jesse88.html
 intheswim
Joined: 1/8/2007
Msg: 218
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History
Michel Moore's New Film Sicko
Posted: 6/30/2007 9:20:12 AM
Trillions of your tax dollars available for war....Thousands of wounded returning from the war and getting nothing....again!

SFA for National Health Care....What's to think about?

Priorities People!!!!!
 Magnificentlady
Joined: 8/31/2006
Msg: 224
Michel Moore's New Film Sicko
Posted: 6/30/2007 10:56:05 PM
I'll second that opinion of sugarsmackrocks. I ran for city council, and the mayor and council were selected on which one was going to sign a blank check to the local trash company so they would have an eternal contract. This movie showed a part of why we have a Congress--to serve at the discretion of those making a fortune off of medical care--or the lack of it. Michael Moore is truly a beacon of light in a government gone loony due to their worship and love of the Dollar Almighty. I just wish to God my son wasn't serving as Bush's puppet in Iraq
 Simlasa
Joined: 10/30/2004
Msg: 227
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Michel Moore's New Film Sicko
Posted: 7/1/2007 12:21:27 PM
When I was in undergrad I had a lot of premed students in my classes... and with just a few exceptions they were a crass lot with no real interest in anything but money. Not healing, not helping people.
I specifically remember listening to one fellow trying to decide if he wanted to continue on after getting his B.S. into law school or medical school...
The only thing he saw was the money he could make, not the nature of the work. He had no 'fire' for healing or the law.
Somehow that attitude is close to the root of the problem...
As long as healthcare is a number for profit sort of game then we aren't going to have a good system. As long as we are willing to let companies put dollar values on our lives we will be nothing more than commodities.

Moore's movie is not balanced... it's not perfect... but at least it's not going to kill us to make a buck.
 paddler
Joined: 9/29/2004
Msg: 230
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Michel Moore's New Film Sicko
Posted: 7/1/2007 5:47:01 PM
Regardless of what you may think of Moore because of his stand on Iraq, by the way he was right about the reasons for the war being wrong, no WMD's. He does bbring to light some disturbing fact about the US healthcare system.

Not to get into anything in the movie, but consider that you need health services when your really young or really old. Two times in your life when you don't have an income, so how smart is it to have a for-profit healthcare system? What kind of care are you going to recieve when the hospital has profit as the priority not patient well being?

There's a good reason every single industrializsed nation on earth, except the United States, has universal healthcare. Personally, I think the debate is long over-due.
 im outa here
Joined: 5/29/2007
Msg: 239
Michel Moore's New Film Sicko
Posted: 7/13/2007 7:00:42 PM
we have socialized medicine already. medicare and medicaid.
its just not for everyone.
 im outa here
Joined: 5/29/2007
Msg: 243
Michel Moore's New Film Sicko
Posted: 7/14/2007 1:53:13 PM
granted , there is so many problems with it...as my friend from the north so eligantly put it...
we spend way too much for way too little...while big medicine make billions/year
being self employed i don't have access to a health care plan that benifits from many members. ie a company policy.
with the high premiums and the dedutibles and the 20% you owe of the total, that is enough to bankrupt someone by itself.
i have health insuranc for my daughter and life insurance for me...and the grim reality is i will die if i get seriously sick...

michael moore is fighting for a cause I agree with.
 RedneckJedi
Joined: 4/1/2006
Msg: 244
Michel Moore's New Film Sicko
Posted: 7/14/2007 4:21:27 PM
Michel Moore is a big fat douche everyone should wise up.
you can not depend on the government to take care of you.
if you do you will be as S.O.L as the people after katrina hit.
we need a smaller federal government and less red tape, not "Moore"
of it.

from what ive heard so far even the liberals on CNN said his
latest propaganda film was a bomb. thats pretty bad....
 JustKelly70
Joined: 2/9/2007
Msg: 246
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History
Michel Moore's New Film Sicko
Posted: 7/14/2007 6:02:33 PM
I'm not a fan of MM, not a fan of anyone really, Hey he finds away to make a Buck or two or a million, Hell I'd do the same thing, I'm sure he does do some research into the topic before proceding. So Alot of what he does must have some legitimate legs to stand on. Any lawsuits against him???, Could be, I did'nt read this entire thread, It's a bit difficult , Mostly 2 guys having a disagreement here. I have not seen the film and it seems most posting here have not either. Sooo how can you post about something you know little about. Do I intend to see the film, naaaa, if it comes out on tv sure, I could care less. This became a debat between health care systems, was that the intent of the OP?
 capegardengirl
Joined: 4/29/2006
Msg: 248
Michel Moore's New Film Sicko
Posted: 7/15/2007 9:13:47 PM
I work as a therapist , have been for 20 years and Moores film was right on target regarding managed care...I once had to threaten a HMO rep with legal action in order to get my client hospitalized..3 hours of practically screaming and yelling....Oh, and I didnt get paid for any of that..All on "my time".....As a provider you jump thru all sort of hoops and barriers set up by people who have no training as a doctor, nurse or therapist....Many with just a few years of college...Who decide what providers should do with clients, what care should be given and what their treatmentr plan should be...Never mind that they live in Califonia and the client has never talked to them or met them.....Funny how those conservatives in the 70s and 80s all warned against govt. socialized medicine not allowing people to choose their own doctors and hospitals and what coverage they needed..Well, thats exackly what privatized healthcare has done!...It is a business....Whose goal is to make money at our expense.....By providing as less care as possible with as few services as possible.....Funny how the USA refuses to consider socialized medicine in this country but they pay for free socialized healthcare for everyone in Iraq!!!..And have been since the war began..Wonders how many people actually know this.....I was shocked when I learned that...Makes the war supporters and socialized medicine haters look like hypocrites ignorant of what their what own country is funding behind their backs...Bush has remained very quiet on this for good reason..Get educated people and protest and protect your rights...Cos no one else will
 Montreal_Guy
Joined: 3/8/2004
Msg: 254
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History
Michel Moore's New Film Sicko
Posted: 8/10/2007 8:59:40 PM
I dragged a Candadian date to his last film. My date and his father were apparently HUGE Bush fans.

When we walked out, he was pretty speechless.

Michael Moore is not perfect. He is not National Geographic.

But he sure gets the facts and rumor out for debate, and if you can move this continent toward discourse, holy shyte! You have power.


I agree.

One wonderful thing I discovered about Moore, with all his faults (and like anyone else he has those) is that he's this very rare combination of two things.

The first is that he's an American that can take a look at his country through the eyes of a foreigner. That's rare in any country, and especially so in the US.


"Some men see things as they are and say why - I dream things that never were and say why not."
-- George Bernard Shaw


The world, and any society, needs people like this to challenge it towards a better future for all it's citizens. All too often we get trapped, all of us, in paradigms. The world around us is "normal", and we come to accept it without asking ourselves why that is.

The second is that he's able to use modern media to promote his films, in a very successful way.

As you said, that opens a debate, and allows people (like us) to discuss the pros and cons of what he's saying. That's quite needed today, if we are to address the problems society has.

No society will ever be perfect....but they can be made better through debate and dissent.
 lovableladywanted
Joined: 5/14/2006
Msg: 255
Michel Moore's New Film Sicko
Posted: 8/12/2007 7:06:57 AM
I have not seen the movie . I can only say that I have heard wonderful things about it and I plan to see it when it comes to payperview , which should be soon.When I see it I will make my objective judgment. What gets me is when the faux media... people like Bill O'Reilly, Rush, Savage criticize the movie without ever seeing it. Seems to me that is the ultimate epitome of stupid. If that does not tell 'listeners'...er sheep lmao that these guys are morons , than nothing else will . I for example have heard that PASSION OF CHRIST is antisemetic. I have not seen the movie so I can not make that judgment. Thats the difference between miseducated people , like O'Reilly and Hannity etc , and intellectually sound individuals like myself. I do know the movie points out the breach of health plans , which is very scary. I think it is an important movie , but will make my opinion known AFTER I see it.
 Keithslegacy
Joined: 6/20/2007
Msg: 258
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History
Michel Moore's New Film Sicko
Posted: 8/13/2007 7:00:58 PM
The US medical system works really well for you if you have some kind of insurance or a decent amount of money.

Otherwise, not so much......Yeah, we can get into most places quickly and easily, but those without SOME kind of coverage get RAPED like a pedophile in prison.

I mean, say I wind up getting a massive migrane and had to go to the emergency room......$400!!! For just getting seen by a doctor for a few moments and having my heart/temp checked.....Oh, and he might write me a prescription so I can go pay ANOTHER $100 for the pills I might need.

And God Forbid I get a pill or something at the ER.....Another $50 and $10 for the glass of pop they give me to wash it down with.

Think I'm beefing this up higher than it is? Look at your Emergency Room/Doctor bill the next time you go.....Look at all the things they charge you an arm and a leg for doing.

Our medial system IS a scam, and although I might not agree with Michael Moore's motives and methods 100% of the time......he DOES raise really good points and questions about things that can't be as easily ignored.

And why does anyone that cracks on MM have to bring up his weight? Jeez....crack on the guy for his politics or whatever, but cracking on the dude's weight all the time is just......Petty and REALLY sh$%ty, IMO. I mean, would YOU like if someone picked out your physical flaws and just BLASTED you over and over for it?

Like that has ANYTHING to do with whether he's right or wrong. Grow the F$^k up!!!
 Bezukhov
Joined: 7/14/2007
Msg: 260
Michel Moore's New Film Sicko
Posted: 8/13/2007 9:57:56 PM
Elementary economic theory would favor parents paying for their children’s elementary school education at the best school that they can afford. Why should my tax dollars go to help someone else’s kids better compete with me. Same goes for law enforcement: let the ones with the most to lose pay for police protection. And, for that matter, military protection. Let’s make all roads toll roads. Let’s let everyone sink or swim; isn’t that the conservative/libertarian ideal? Or we can all agree that the country best prospers when the greatest number of its citizens prosper, and that the best course is to collectively provide, as more civilized nations do, for the most pressing needs of our people, including medical care. Like law enforcement and military readiness, it’s a matter of life and death.

BTW, which basic economic theory are you espousing: Keynsian, Austrian, Marxist. No, let me guess: supply side? That’s working very well for a very few people here in the US.
 Bezukhov
Joined: 7/14/2007
Msg: 261
Michel Moore's New Film Sicko
Posted: 8/13/2007 10:06:25 PM
“The philosophical underpinning of violating the drug companies' IP is always "life is more precious than money". There is some truth to that of course. But the irony is that if it is applied without limit it would mean the drugs never could have been developed in the first place, since it takes a large amount of money to do so.”

There was a time when much research was done in universities and shared freely for the greater good, the chemists and universities gaining mostly prestige. Other schools and laboratories could then take this research and build upon it, rather like open-source software. Now everyone, including, universities, is increasisngly secretive and proprietary, even going so far as to patent a snippet of genetic code that indicates cancer, and threatening a doctor with litigation for using that information to diagnose breast cancer. Other research that might once have interested scientists enough to work on developing cures for devastating but uncommon diseases are now passed over in favor of research more likely to turn a profit for the university. It turns out greed is not good, after all.
 Bezukhov
Joined: 7/14/2007
Msg: 263
Wow what a responce
Posted: 8/13/2007 10:25:30 PM
Cuba also offered to send Doctors and a hospital ship when our government so shamefully abandoned its citizens along the Gulf Coast. We declined. BushCo would rather have people dying in the streets than risk losing face by accepting help from those commies. Curiously, Communist China, which is responsible for some real atrocities, gets a pass.

I worked with evacuees in Knoxville for a week and then went down to Missississippi for a week, hauling down donated supplies and working to repair wind damage inland (with one trip to Biloxi). While in a staging ground in Ovett I met some folks from a group called Green Circus who were hauling busloads of stuff down to the coast. They had to sneak food and supplies in like smugglers, as the Federal Marshals were turning back relief efforts.

A lot of parallels. Many of those victims also thought their insurance would take care of them. Mistakenly. And our government resisted mollycoddling them; those with money and resources did okay; the rest, in keeping with conservative/libertarian philosphy, sank or swam.
 Bezukhov
Joined: 7/14/2007
Msg: 264
Wow what a responce
Posted: 8/13/2007 10:30:50 PM
No, the timid and the ignorant will accept what our corporate masters deign to give them, their health care consisting of bending over for their promised prostate exam.

Of course, if you live entirely off the land, eschewing the use of government schools, roads, police protection, libraries, weather service, unemployment compensation, workmen’s comp or social security, then I must applaud you for your rugged independence. Unless, of course, you happen to be on government land.
 Bezukhov
Joined: 7/14/2007
Msg: 265
Michel Moore's New Film Sicko
Posted: 8/13/2007 10:39:14 PM
“And I read somewhere he went with some poor guy to Cuba to get care. You think he would even give a shit about that guy if he didn't need a subject for a stupid documentry??”

Well, I think he would; I think the concern Mike expresses in his movies would be difficult to fake. I don’t always agree with his opinions, but by God, I admire his commitment to what he believes in. I wish I could accomplish half as much in advancing my own causes.

And, yeah, there’s a bit about Mike taking some of the volunteers from 9/11 rescue efforts whom our government and our health establishment wouldn’t help down to Cuba when the staff at Guantanomo Bay wouldn’t help them. In fact, it’s a major part of the movie.

I came on here to seek pleasant conversation with ladies and find myself arguing the merits of a movie with people who haven’t seen it. My bad. I must resist that impulse in future. It’s pointless for thinking people to argue with those who are, largely, copy-pasting Rush Limbaugh and friends into the comment fields. They don’t calle themselves “Ditto-heads” for nothing.
 prolibertate
Joined: 9/11/2005
Msg: 267
Michel Moore's New Film Sicko
Posted: 8/21/2007 4:12:18 PM

Truly a sad story and maybe even avoidable perhaps? It's easy to point the finger at the guy but even still I have to say I'm glad our health care system negates the need for such a desperate act to be even thought about.



This is *not* a case of being unable to pay bills. Illegal immigrants can get medical care here at NO cost, so can anyone; and many people can get Medicaid. I wouldn't doubt that they'll find out this guy either had life insurance on her, or possibly he simply wanted to live life without having any responsibility for, or ties to, a wife...and if he's found to have a girlfriend, he may have killed his wife because some find it hard to divorce an ill spouse. What other reason could he have had to take his wife out of her mother's home - where she'd been for a number of months - and a few days later he kills her?

There's always more to a story than first thought:
http://www.kansascity.com/115/story/235445.html

http://www.kctv5.com/news/13896613/detail.html
A Nelson-Atkins official who refused to be named said Reimer had worked in the museum's finance department since 1996 and that the museum offers full family insurance coverage to its employees. She would not say if the Reimers had that coverage, citing privacy concerns.

http://www.photius.com/rankings/who_world_health_ranks.html
Moore's rankings are from 2000 - a bit dated, I'd say.

http://www.who.int/whr/2006/whr06_en.pdf
In the latest WHO report, the America have the most healthcare workers overall;

http://www.who.int/whr/2006/annex/06_annex2_en.pdf
Total expenditure on health per GDP as of 2003:
Canada 9.2. USA 15.2
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