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 Ender
Joined: 2/1/2004
Msg: 37
May all the immigrants accept my apologies for americasPage 2 of 6    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6)
Even though Whisper is a nasty, mean spirited, venemous woman.....I agree with what she's said on this subject.



Diva, I'm not going to attack your viewpoint because I think that you are honestly a good person. I think that you really beleive it would solve many of our problems if we opened the borders completely. However, I also think that you are painfully idealistic. Even if america dropped its agenda of hate, the rest of the world would not follow suit. THe ideas that you've proposed would work FINE if humanity had an evolved spirituality, but they do not. The vast majority of humans are more concerned with feeding themselves than with anything else. Of the ones that have the food surplus to "think big thoughts" instead of taking care of their basic needs, the vast majority is more concerned with solidifying their ability to retain their power and secure their genetic future.


I'd love to live in a world where everyone could move freely, where people respected each other, and where love was the byword instead of it being distrust. However, we are not ready (as a species) for that world just yet.
 cougar99
Joined: 6/1/2005
Msg: 40
May all the immigrants accept my apologies for americas
Posted: 5/17/2007 8:50:11 PM
Since the Americas encompass North and South America, I guess apologies are due from far north as Canada and as far south as Argentina. Then again since the majority of people living in the Americas, have been immigrants in one way or another, we all owe each other an apology.

In the words of Ricky Ricardo (cuban immigrant), someone has some 'splainin' to do!"
 whisper67520
Joined: 9/29/2006
Msg: 41
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History
May all the immigrants accept my apologies for americas
Posted: 5/17/2007 10:01:19 PM
Trew....I assure you, I did not leave out the word "poor" on purpose...it was an oversight. But consider this, even a lot of "poor" Mexicans own their homes and land they sit on. I agree their standards of living are not the same as ours. Where you and I, or your parents, most likely live in middle income homes, their housing would be akin to our lower income housing, that even working class Americans live in.

I know here and have talked to many Hispanics, who have bought land and are building homes in Mexico, with the money they make working in the USA, with the intent to return there. Lots of those homes are nicer than some working class citizens in the USA can afford. Also the cost of living is far less there than here. A Mexican can come here and work for 3 years, save their money, go back to Mexico and live for 5 years with out having to work...and live just fine an enjoy a nice quality of life an extended vacation.

With all the taxes taken out of an Americans paycheck to pay for city, state and federal cost and city infrastructure, I would like to see the day any of our lower working class people could work 3 years and take a nice long stress free vacation for 5 years. It ain't happening.......You will go to work every day of every year of your life, except for maybe a two week vacation, if you are lucky.....and if your extra lucky and you can save enough after taxes to afford to leave your home and go some place.

Have you personally ever traveled into Mexico and I don't mean just across the borders? I made a trip down to Rocky Point, Mexico a few years ago and there were many nice homes, working class Mexicans lived in. Granted, the streets were dirt and no curbing and I didn't observe any sewage treatment plants, but they certainly had electricity and running water. Even in our communities, its the cities, through taxes and state funds that pave the streets, build the city infrastructure, lay the city services.

And I think we can all agree, the Mexican country has resources that are being gathered...ae oil and other natural products that someone is getting rich off of. You nor I can force the Mexican Government to provide those civil luxuries to their populations. Only the Mexican populous can change the infrastructure of their own country.

I have an American friend, living way down in Mexico. He lives in a two room suite in a hotel (a very nice one) there with daily maid service and only pays $8.00 a day for his living quarters. He has sent me many videos taken in the area and its not a high tourist area. He tells me how well the Mexicans live there and what a great quality of life they have. In no way do they have to deal with the stress most of us deal with on a daily bases. And videos of their homes....Aw some...I would gladly trade with them. Their gardens are beautiful, the homes clean and well cared for and roomy. No they dont have wall to wall carpeting, fancy expensive furniture, or two car garages...but they are well laid out, open to the outdoors with court yards and nicely decorated.

We Americans have been brain washed to think all Mexicans from Mexico live in slums and squallier....an judging from the border towns one might think so....but think of the slum areas in big cities right here in the USA ...that's a comparison. But away from the border towns...its a different story.

The Mexicans coming here to work, is similar to an American going over seas for a high paying job that then would allow them to return here, money in pocket, buy a business or just live off those savings for several years.

When I have spent time in AZ in the winter, many USA people go across the border into Mexico for dental work, done by American trained, Mexican Dentist, in very modern dental offices with the latest equipment and technology. You know why? Because they can get the work done for 10% of the cost of having it done in the USA.

It might be wise for everyone to do some research and gain facts....before people just assume something and take it to be factual.
 whisper67520
Joined: 9/29/2006
Msg: 43
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History
May all the immigrants accept my apologies for americas
Posted: 5/17/2007 10:27:18 PM
Ender....I believe you described yourself this way...... "lover of booze and boobs. Hedonistic cynic with a large amount of bile to spit at the world.
Trying REALLY hard to hold onto those last tidbits of childhood in the face of a rampant onslaught of adulthood."

Ender.....Even though Whisper is a nasty, mean spirited, venemous woman"
I can only surmise that statement was made in regard to dialog between myself and diva and xemicangirl, since I have never addressed you before.......And I can only guess you have not read the threads in their entirety and seen how disrespectful and vulgar those two have been to other posters in other threads. so it does not surprise me that you would let your rude tongue make an ass out of yourself.....

Some people find it difficult to defend themselves against rude vulgar people....me being older....I say bring it on and I will defend them. I have broad shoulders and have learned that the only way you can back the nastiness off....is to get right back in their faces, in the same manner they come at you and others.

I never start the nasty tone, but sometimes one just has to get down on someone else's level to get their attention.......and some people....ARE AT TIMES...so self centered and rude....you can only address them in the same tone as what comes out of their mouths.

So I am sorry if I offended you or others.....it was not address to you or them.... But before you make judgements.....you should read the complete dialogs, of the entire threads.

But yes.......I can be a ****, if that is the side someone else shows to me and others.
 crazy8sfun4u
Joined: 6/10/2005
Msg: 44
May all the immigrants accept my apologies for americas
Posted: 5/18/2007 1:49:40 AM
Ok now here is you big answer the lands were destroyed from garbage that is just thrown out anywhere junk that they do not want gets tossed out on the side of a road or in a creek, river or lake and it does'nt matter to them if it's destroyed they look for some place else. And by the way they do have power in their goverment to do something but it wont why you may ask weel they are encouraging them to come to the US and screw the US goverment and it's people by sending the money back there they are not forced to look elsewhere they are looking for someplace to get as mush as possible for free not have any responsibility for cleaning anything up after their done with it. They are not victims they are nothing but destroyers as they have always done!
 Duckman_2
Joined: 5/15/2007
Msg: 46
May all the immigrants accept my apologies for americas
Posted: 5/18/2007 5:56:50 PM
My grandmother came off the point on Florida in the late 1800's. My grandfather ran away from an indian reservation as a child and married her.
Well, my grandmother is half polish and german and my grandfather is italian and irish. Yeah, they came over to the US in the late 1800's.

Interesting...your grandfather was itialian and irish, yet he ran away from the indian reservation as a child to marry your grandmother, and yet again, they both came over to the US in the late 1800's...


You walk around looking at us as though you are giving me a break by allowing me to pick fruit from a tree for $3.00 an hour. Or while I do grunt construction work for $5.00 while my superior white counterpart makes $75.00 for that same hour.

Most fruit pickers get paid by the amount they pick, not hourly, and as far as construction workers go, they accept the low wages because they are ILLEGAL and let theirselves be paid the low wages, however, $5.00 an hour WITHOUT paying taxes is better than $7.00 an hour and PAYING taxes. And where the hell you got the $75.00 an hour from is beyond me as if making that, they are not going to even be on the job site.

me and my fathers, and grandfathers were living and walking on this land,

Thats just a stupid statement as your only 34, or so you say.

I'm here to finish up my masters and thats it.
And we will be glad when you leave.

PLEASE, don't waste any effort to apologize for me as I have nothing to apoligize for...
 crazy8sfun4u
Joined: 6/10/2005
Msg: 48
May all the immigrants accept my apologies for americas
Posted: 5/18/2007 6:59:39 PM
The countries or goverments do not owe any immigrant especially illegal immigrants an apology. If some of these taxi drivers are doctors or engineers and drive taxi for a living I shurley would'nt want one of them doing surgery on me or designing something for me, if they have been taken in by some scam, that only shows how brilliant they really are!
 sd_matt
Joined: 7/9/2006
Msg: 50
May all the immigrants accept my apologies for americas
Posted: 5/18/2007 8:13:19 PM
Diva

"They are fighting for our politicians in Washington for oil and a stabilizing effect in the middle east."
That claim never stands up to the stats. Look up Iraqs oil production before the war. Lets optmistically multiply that figure by 3 and see if the war will pay for itsself in your lifetime.

We are a republic, always were.

The United States gets most of its donations from private donors. In Europe its mostly from the government. So yes, there is initaitive here in the U.S.


Had we pre-emptively attacked Germany in 1935 the lives of six million Jew would have been saved, not to mention millions of civilians and combatants ( figures range from 30 to 60 million). Yet you would count on people claiming that were acting like bullies. Others would be appalled at the loss of hundreds of thousands. Youre damned if you do your damned if you dont.
Is Iraq definitely saving us from something bad by keeping the fight over there? I dont know. You seem so certain in your convictions. The type of certainty I usually see in far right religious types.
 whisper67520
Joined: 9/29/2006
Msg: 51
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History
May all the immigrants accept my apologies for americas
Posted: 5/18/2007 9:58:10 PM
Diva....

You keep referring to OUR COUNTRY (meaning the rest of us who are US Citizens)....hummmm maybe your not even an American Citizen....just playing a game of truths/falsie's here.

Irregardless....many of your statements and the manner in which you express yourself, indicate a person who is lower educated, uninformed and not knowledgeable on current events or is just plain STUPID...... Certainly not the presentation of someone who has a College Degree.

You claim to be working on an advanced college degree... but most High School students are better informed on facts and more professional in presenting their dialog.. You spout off claims, but we see no documentation to verify your post. Most of your post, indicate an uninformed, irrational thinking person....who just makes up things to try to blow smoke up someone else's ass.......nothing substantial......

You have spun so many different tales, contradicted some of your post so many times and shown such disrespect for the Country you claim to call home, that I just realized........what a waste of time even acknowledging you.

.Soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo I for one, think I will just call a spade a spade.......and say you know little about the discussion your trying to engage in, as far as any thing factual or educated......AND IGNORE YOU.
 whisper67520
Joined: 9/29/2006
Msg: 52
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History
May all the immigrants accept my apologies for americas
Posted: 5/18/2007 10:13:06 PM
e-wok...."Sometimes it's the country that owes immigrants an apology.....my
father built airplanes overseas and was an engineer making some
serious coin. Back then, Canada was actively "recruiting" immigrants
to come to Canada for a "better life" and he accepted the challenge "

"but first, he has to learn English and save money
for school and work at the same time, then, he needs to take university
courses blah blah blah........."

Isn't it the one wishing to "accept the challenge" to do the necessary investigation into whither they are qualified or not for that which they reach for. If another country is here recruiting people to fill specialized jobs, they advertise, I apply....saying I am qualified......is it their fault....if in fact I do not speak their language, dont have the necessary credentials to work in that profession in their country.......or is it mine...for not checking out the experience and qualifications required for the job they offer.....?????

I dont see where it would be to their benefit to hire me....if in fact I dont fit their requirements.....but I can see myself enhancing my abilities, to take advantage of their offer....if I feel in the long run it would benefit me. That is ......if I was inclined to over enhance my abilities to gain what I want. But then, I'm not.
 Ender
Joined: 2/1/2004
Msg: 58
May all the immigrants accept my apologies for americas
Posted: 5/19/2007 5:09:35 PM
Whisper, why the hell would you apologize for offending people? Personally I like mean spirited venemous people. I feel that they are FAR more honest that the bleeding heart suck ups that society seems to encourage us all to be.



Yes, I read how idiotic they can be.....they weren't even worth trying to have a "debate" with if you get my drift.
 whisper67520
Joined: 9/29/2006
Msg: 60
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History
Msg. #65 was for DIVA
Posted: 5/19/2007 9:59:12 PM
e-wok...."They come here with nothing and created wealth for themselves"
"the real question IMO would be; how STUPID
does a native born have to be to allow an illegal or legal immigrant to
rise up above him. Why can't the native born excel with all the privelages
and advantages this country practically hands them? "

Usually with immigrants...its the ones with the most drive and ambition for material things that make the decision to immigrate to a country where they can accomplish what they cant in their birth country.... I do admire the discipline and drive most immigrants have. They make many sacrifices.

But...there are many people who do not put value in just amassing material things and money.

For some, the goal is to be of service to others, nurses, doctors who work in under served poor communities, foster parents who dedicate their lives to helping children with out parents, not for the money paid to them to shelter these children, but for what they give to these kids, of themselves, to help them feel loved and have an opportunity in life. Foster parents who assume the responsibility of raising and being a family for handicapped children or those born to parents who for what ever reason, have no maternal aptitude for raising the children they bring into this world.

Many well educated people, work in very underpaid jobs, when they could be commanding higher salaries, but they do it for what they can give to others. Teachers who could draw higher salaries in other professions, but choose to teach, out of their love for children.

Not everyone is after the All Mighty Dollar, or all the property and money they can count up on their financial statement. Some can only see their own self worth in the dollars on their personal financial statements.

Those are the ones I consider to be at the bottom of the food chain.....the greedy ones. The ones who walk all over everyone.....just to get to what they consider the top of the pile.....or look down on people who dont have the list of assets...they themselves do.

Some people...find their satisfaction and self worth......in being good parents and putting their families first...
 bocanut
Joined: 5/27/2006
Msg: 63
May all the immigrants accept my apologies for americas
Posted: 6/8/2007 8:14:03 AM
Message #59:" hi black bi diva,

Nice post, i like your attitude and style. Keep up the good work, I think I understand what you are talking about.

I gave up on my Canadian nationality a long time ago, when Canada helped bomb Baghdad during Gulf War I. As can we see now it was a manufactured media war created by the Military Industrial Banking Media Religious Complex and packaged, produced and promoted by Hill & Knowlton. "


Giving up your citizenship would lend credence to that empty statement about nationality.
 rsx11s
Joined: 3/28/2007
Msg: 64
May all the immigrants accept my apologies for americas
Posted: 6/8/2007 4:22:33 PM

Human nature dictates: One person = No Borders. Two people = Borders in some shape form or fashion.
Borders have existed as long as the Earth has been around.


A tough assertion to prove. Borders are by definition arbitrary geopolitical boundries. Certanily the area between upstate new york and southern ontario have more to do with each other than what goes on in DC or Albuqueque. It's an artifact of our political structure that, say, this area isn't self determinate but relies on DC and Ottawa for direction.

If you look at the EU the tendancy is for less stringent border policies. I firmly believe that this is the way of the future and one day the whole world will be like this. Despite anybody's opinion here this is the current tendancy, not isolationism. Why? There's an economic incentive to do so and at the end of the day that's going to win out.

On a personal note I'd like to point out that never in the history of the internet has anybody's mind been changed by somebody who was rude, obnoxious, screamed in all caps or belittled their opponents. Cold facts and logic prevail every time. We gotta be grownups here.
 upuralley
Joined: 4/3/2007
Msg: 66
May all the immigrants accept my apologies for americas
Posted: 6/8/2007 5:55:35 PM
GOOD ONE!!!! my for fathers walked this land for over 4000 yrs. i am a original canadian. well half of me. you can not tell me anything, i do what i want, when ever i want. But i do speak english, i am polite, and caring to others...for me respect is very important...... and i dont care who you are . you all can get if you dont follow those rules.
 harviej
Joined: 12/18/2006
Msg: 68
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History
May all the immigrants accept my apologies for americas
Posted: 6/9/2007 10:51:11 AM
Does the United States have a problem with illegal immigrants? Yes it clearly does.
Are those problems overstated? Yes, they clearly are. Are they used for political ends? Yes they are

Are they going to be solved soon? Not a chance. Neither wholesale amnesty, nor mass round ups are going to be realistic nor deal with the underlying causes

The causes are complicated. So the solutions will be too.

Yes the illegals cause problems, but the overstated "sucking the country dry" is bought because of fear. It is sold because bad policy can be excused, blame shifted, and real issues ignored.
 crazy8sfun4u
Joined: 6/10/2005
Msg: 69
May all the immigrants accept my apologies for americas
Posted: 6/9/2007 6:24:54 PM
harviej

What you happen to call "sucking the country dry " by illegal immigrants overstated and it is brought because of fear, is by far overstated, but when an American citizen has worked most of his or her life and fall on hard times and due to illegal immigrants doing their job for less money turns to the goverment looking for help from the programs that their taxes were used for cant get help because the illegals have used more than the programs had which are using money from other programs to pay for theses illegal immigrants housing, food, medical, free schooling and free job training yet the citizens get denied and you say it is because of fear! Fear is not even close to that describes how these illegal immigrants are sucking the country dry and the only way to solve the problem is to deport evryone of the illegal immigrants back to their own country ASAP and thats all there is that needs to be done.
 crazy8sfun4u
Joined: 6/10/2005
Msg: 70
May all the immigrants accept my apologies for americas
Posted: 6/9/2007 6:30:29 PM
Posted By: gary29627 on 6/8/2007 727 PM
Subject: May all the immigrants accept my apologies for americas
Message: please dont speak. for us americans. they should all be deported everyone of them. when i moved here from hungary. i did not break the law. plus i could speak english.they should go home. and wait like i did.

I applaude you Sir although to some people in here think I have a problem with all immigrants is by far from the truth I am a firm beleiver in going through the proper channels and coming to the US legally and as far as all other illegal immigrants deport them ASAP.
 rsx11s
Joined: 3/28/2007
Msg: 71
May all the immigrants accept my apologies for americas
Posted: 6/9/2007 7:24:13 PM

when i moved here from hungary


Nothing strikes me as funny as a European complaining about a nomadic pattersn 3000 miles away that's been going on for at least 4000 years.

Europeans claim the northern part of tha range then proclaim the yearly migration as "illegal immigration".

Stop it doc you're killing me.

Deport Enron, not aliens and you'd be better off.
 MallardHunter
Joined: 4/20/2007
Msg: 72
May all the immigrants accept my apologies for americas
Posted: 6/9/2007 7:29:08 PM

Deport Enron,


I really hate to be the one to inform you, but Enron imploded a few years ago...

and we don't need someone who isn't a citizen telling us what to do...
 rsx11s
Joined: 3/28/2007
Msg: 73
May all the immigrants accept my apologies for americas
Posted: 6/9/2007 9:37:35 PM
Enron is dead? Hey no kidding. But you get the point.

If nationalism is so important to you why are you hanging out on a Canadian website? :-) One of the nice things about the net is it creates something without borders abd borders limit the flow of things both good and bad.

"Nationalism: the infantile belief that some country is better because of being born there" _ Albert Einstein.

At any rate, nothing you said changes the truth value or irony of what I wrote.
 whisper67520
Joined: 9/29/2006
Msg: 74
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History
May all the immigrants accept my apologies for americas
Posted: 6/15/2007 11:37:43 AM
Kitty here is another aspect of your well documented post......A real eye opener...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7WJeqxuOfQ&mode=related&search

I do like your idea of our building all our prisons in Mexico and allowing Mexicans to run them ....I think our crime rates would drop drastically......
 Arabianangel
Joined: 6/9/2007
Msg: 75
May all the immigrants accept my apologies for americas
Posted: 6/15/2007 8:04:31 PM
Diva........I have never read words that hold so much truth and passion......thank you from a truth seeker......
 henry333
Joined: 6/4/2006
Msg: 76
May all the immigrants accept my apologies for americas
Posted: 6/16/2007 4:02:12 AM
Err ... native americans came from asia originally and therefore the indians went to the yucatan peninsula, not the other way around. Further there were huge numbers of warring peoples of different genetic stock who fought violently to take over land in what was a free for all immigration "policy". THis was in fact the driving force for continual "immigration" south by the asian rejects.

In south america they have such an intense hatred of asians that I almsot belive its engrained into them from the days they were "deported" from asia.

Basically everyone is an immigrant but hostorically all illegal immgrants were assocaited with violence - that includes the white honky rejects from europe! Its ludicrous to sugegst honkies came over legally in teh f irst place and that the imposed laws later were legal! Legalities are a technical issue imposed by who ever is in pwoer at the time - who knows, that may very well be todays illegals! Lets face it california is already mexican again!

Basically everyone is speaking crap and out of their fat asses from driving too much!! haha
 henry333
Joined: 6/4/2006
Msg: 77
May all the immigrants accept my apologies for americas
Posted: 6/17/2007 11:05:42 AM
What a pile of nationalistic crap whisper - youre ancestors wre immigrants and they should have stayed home and paid their dues but the slinky cowards came to the US to destroy the earlier immgirants who ahd more right to call the US home.....................

Serving in the military does not give you special rights either!!
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