Plentyoffish dating forums are a place to meet singles and get dating advice or share dating experiences etc. Hopefully you will all have fun meeting singles and try out this online dating thing... Remember that we are the largest free online dating service, so you will never have to pay a dime to meet your soulmate.
     
Show ALL Forums  > British Columbia  >      Home login  
 AUTHOR
 Samantha44
Joined: 10/25/2008
Msg: 59
Olympic Protest (APC)Page 2 of 4    (1, 2, 3, 4)
I've traveled all over the world....these protesters should try living in another part of the world if they think they are so hard done by here. The poorest of the poor still live like Kings and Queens here compared to Mumbai India, Brazil, Mexico, etc....

I'm all for getting your message out for change but going about it terrorizing way is not the way.
 Nerdimus Maximus
Joined: 12/15/2008
Msg: 63
Olympic Protest (APC)
Posted: 2/15/2010 11:36:26 AM
I agree with the protester that they have a message. I'm not sure they are getting the SPECIFIC message across when their saggy a$$es get tazed by the police. So if their aim was to educate us to their message then they failed.

A protest has a message to get out. Terrorism is a very violent form of protest. "They hate us for our freedoms" Right? (Not our foriegn policies, of course) But as a protest terrorism is successful if they attach a message to their act. Violence for the sake of violence is anarchy. Get the anarchists off the street and let the protests begin!
 Ed Bear
Joined: 5/19/2007
Msg: 65
view profile
History
Olympic Protest (APC)
Posted: 2/15/2010 1:22:21 PM
There are a variety of protesters with different causes; in my case, it's that I don't believe the olympic games are a benefit to society and they expect us to pay to keep a private, closed club rich.

I'm not sure if "we COVER" militant protest means they support it. If a site is trying to be a core for all resistance, it will cover it.

As for agents provocateurs... the police were caught and admitted being the source of violence in the Quebec City summit. When Vancouver Games Security police/RCMP were asked if they were going to be using infiltrators and provocateurs to get demonstrations broken up or discredited, their spokesman (on several TV news channels) said only that they were content with the measures they had been taking and would be taking. When one reporter asked if there would be provocation of violence, he just walked away.

I am not entertaining any doubts that neither the police, not outside protesters, will be the only violent actors.
ED BEAR
 SoLongThanksForAllTheFish
Joined: 6/14/2007
Msg: 66
Olympic Protest (APC)
Posted: 2/15/2010 4:15:32 PM
I think it's hilarious that people on here are saying something to the effect of "if you want to protest, that's fine. Just do it in a pleasant and civil manner (so I can ignore you easily). If your going to be unpleasant then you have my personal spite". I don't think they care if you like their message, I think they just care if they get homes.

Friday's protest got worldwide attention. Saturday's riot didn't get them any further. I don't think most of us (recent posters, at least) expect them to be polite and ignoreable, just not violent and destructive.

At least one of the thugs certainly was from out of town, although not far away:

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2010/02/15/bc-american-myers-arrested-vancouver-protest.html

Gotta love this shining example of gullibility (emphasis mine):
...Daniel was not part of the so-called black bloc of balaclava-clad anarchists who police have blamed for the vandalism and was only carrying a bicycle chain as a symbol of environmental protest.

I suppose if he'd been carrying a sledgehammer they would have defended that as a "back to the land" symbol, too. What a load of bollocks.
 beaker49
Joined: 10/31/2005
Msg: 68
view profile
History
Olympic Protest (APC)
Posted: 2/16/2010 6:44:46 PM
I came across this editorial today which originated in a local multi cultural newspaper with a Canadian slant called The South Asian Post. It is very interesting to read how immigrant Canadians see the situation relating to homelessness in the DTES and the very narrow point of view expressed by the Poverty Olympics Organizing Committee.
I especially liked the comment about how the POOC portrays the DTES as if it were a Mumbai slum. I think our immigrant population knows first hand what it is really like to live in poverty and consider themselves very lucky to live in a great country like Canada. We Canadian born citizens should take a lesson from this and count our blessings. Sure homelessness is a problem and we taxpayers are starting to deal with it and we do need to do more. Should our entire economic focus be on this problem, I think not, as there is little economic return for the majority of the working and tax paying public. I personally think the Olympics will stimulate the economy, create jobs which in turn raises tax revenue. When this stimulus happens there will be more government funds available to help the homeless. Sometimes I wonder how many of the homeless really want to help themselves. No amount of taxpayer handouts is going to get some of these poor souls off the streets. Drugs, mental illness or a criminal life style will keep many on our streets.

I would like to pose a question to readers of this Forum: How much more are you willing to contribute on your personal tax bill to to end homelessness? Give us a dollar amount...for example $1000.

HERE IS THE EDITORIAL TO WHICH I REFER:

Guest editorial: Olympic-sized distortions from B.C.'s merchants of misery
The Asian Pacific PostFebruary 11, 2010Comments (34)

Vancouver's merchants of misery seem hell bent on leaving a stain on the city as the 2010 Winter Olympiad gets set to start.

Armed with selective information and loads of misinformation, they have been feeding the international media with half-truths about Vancouver's homeless situation.

Over the last few weeks, reporters from England to Australia, the U.S. to Europe and Asia have been making a beeline to the Downtown Eastside, attracted by the contrast of the haves and the have-nots living side by side.

The stories they have told with the information that's been fed to them will make you think that we have a Mumbai slum in our midst and a government that just doesn't give a damn.

Do we have a homeless problem in Vancouver? Yes.

Is it as bad as some would have us think? No.

Here is a classic example of distortion;

The Pivot Legal Society, which has a $720,000 budget, plans to embarrass Vancouver by handing out red tents for the "homeless" to pitch in public places.

The Salvation Army at the same time says the beds at its Harbour Light Centre on Cordova street are not being used, adding there is enough shelter space for the homeless in Vancouver for those who want it.

Wonder what the legal eagles at Pivot will do if one of these tents go up in flames because of an errant occupant's cigarette?

Then there is the assertion by the Poverty Olympics Organizing Committee -- "Unless we do something about this shameful situation, visitors in 2010 will be treated to a city with more homeless people than athletes competing in the Games!"

There is of course no substantiation to this startling statement.

The number of people currently counted sleeping outside ranges from 350 to 1,000, depending on who you talk to.

And that includes people like Nathan George, quoted as saying he just doesn't like sleeping in shelters or in the same room with 40 or more other people.

None of the spokespeople who have been hogging the headlines with their claims about growing homelessness spends any time talking to the visiting press about the estimated $1 million a day pumped into the 175 organizations in the Downtown Eastside to look after the needy.

When the government tries to get its message out about how it's tackling the issue by setting up an information centre, these merchants of misery call it a propaganda centre.

When the same invite the media to their ridiculous 2010 poverty Olympics torch relay and events associated with it, it is called "awareness".

Over the last few years, especially after Vancouver won the Olympic bid, the government working with the private sector has bought 1,400 rooms of existing rental housing to address the homeless issue.

Several other similar plans are in the works. And, sure, we need to do more to help the less fortunate in our society.

But the folks in this poverty industry who are painting Vancouver as a ghetto do no one, especially the people they are supposed to serve, any favours with their distorted rhetoric.

They are a part of the problem because no solution is good enough for them.

— Editorial appears courtesy The Asian Pacific Post
 Danarus
Joined: 10/30/2007
Msg: 70
Olympic Protest (APC)
Posted: 2/17/2010 12:55:39 AM
At a peaceful protest, three police officers showed up disguised as protesters and tried starting a fight with the real protesters so that the police would have a reason to move in and break it up. So bear in mind that it's not just violent protesters that are being targeted.
 Ed Bear
Joined: 5/19/2007
Msg: 71
view profile
History
Olympic Protest (APC)
Posted: 2/17/2010 3:40:47 AM
Gordon Campbell is very fond of asking people to return their income tax cuts if they don't like them.. but it's getting the high-income earners and corporations to return their tax cuts that could make a difference.

I'd be VERY willing to have half of my olympic bill go to providing shelter, and the rest to restoring health care and education.

The HST and cuts we're facing now are not due to the olympics - they are to pay for this current administration's continuing high-end tax cuts.

The homeless cannot be dismissed as lazy bums. At least half are regularly ejected from mental health facilities and left to fend for themselves on welfare until they get in trouble and go back again.

The rest are facing economic policies that keep worker incomes low - $6/$8 minimum wages, exported government jobs and a variety of policies that drive up housing prices. (Transportation blocking, homeowner's tax credit, easy access to mortgage money, high service fees and tolerance of illegal suites, for example.) Vancouver is rated the most unaffordable city in the world, and that's entirely due to city and provincial actions. Civic elections are all about property values and property tax, so those opposing speculative bubbles never get elected.

It's the greedy and abusive that need to pay the bill for what they have done.

The economic right have been doing this over and over - they shift taxes to low-income taxpayers (flatter income taxes and higher user fees) and then, sure enough, the tax take rises BUT it's eaten by the deficit left behind. After the resultant economic drop, the money has to be paid back under the new structure which spares the richest.

Can there be any better example than the US? There are certainly more - Ontario, BC, California... the right-wingers love to point to increased tax take but they never mention that they ALWAYS create a deficit that can't be paid back without tax increases and spending cuts. And guess who those favor?

Look at the history of North American countries, states, provinces and cities. Balanced budgets, not tax cuts, lead to successful economies; our countries were at their most prosperous under steeply progressive income taxes and high corporate taxes. Corporate taxes in Canada, in my lifetime, have fallen from 50% of income tax revenues to under 5% today. The top marginal interest rates have fallen from 80% to under 50%. And user fees (particularly medicare) have spread and risen, becoming more than half of ordinary people's tax payments but still trivial to the wealthy, who pay the same flat rate as everyone but the poorest (under about $20K, varying across Canada).

The Olympics, too, benefit only a very few interests - chiefly hotels and booze vendors - while the rest of us pay.

SHELTERS ARE NOT HOMES! With the exception of one temporary shelter only in its second year, living in a shelter means:

- being on the street except at night, as you can't stay during the day
- having to abandon any possessions one has managed to accumulate
- getting robbed nightly
- getting fleas, scabies, lice and bedbugs every week or so
- not being able to take a job because you can't get clean and have clean clothes

and a lot worse - sexual and physical abuse, forced prostitution, and a very good likelihood of HIV infection because of out-of-control lifestyles.

We closed mental health care facilities.
We cut wages.
We abandoned labour standards, allowing workers to me marginalized as casual slaves who get no benefits or hope of advancement, and never enough hours to live on or become permanent.
We sent government work abroad, particularly good-paying white-collar jobs.
We stopped public housing construction and subsidy.
We pumped money into housing bubbles.

It's not winos and bums that bear the bulk of this - they are very few in number. It's people working for a living that have been spiraling down, down, down. The overwhelming majority of BC residents have seen their income shrink even before inflation is factored in, though the rich are making so much more that average incomes have only fallen a bit.

Enough bashing the pathetic lowest among us! It's the ones who pervert society to their own profit who need to pay their share!

ED BEAR

Not even a bit of a socialist - just someone who remembers decades of economic prosperity that came from putting people to work, not out to the streets.
 SoLongThanksForAllTheFish
Joined: 6/14/2007
Msg: 73
Olympic Protest (APC)
Posted: 2/17/2010 8:13:33 AM
Is this thread about protest or about homelessness?

Regardless of whether the two are really separate, it's worth trying to look at them separately - not just because protest is the question at hand, but because the answers to "why people protest" shed some light on the homeless problem from behind.

Two questions just to sort out which camps people are in:



Vancouver's merchants of misery seem hell bent on leaving a stain on the city as the 2010 Winter Olympiad gets set to start.

Anybody want to deny that there is a large group of people in Vancouver making a career out of dealing with the city's social problems?



Enough bashing the pathetic lowest among us! It's the ones who pervert society to their own profit who need to pay their share!

Anybody want to deny that there are rich people here twisting the rules to get richer?

I think both things are true, and both these approaches are going to go nowhere because they're worsening an even more fundamental problem: BC is a worse mess than other places because BC is much more polarized than other places. Blaming all your problems on some other segment of society might be satisfying but it's silly and unproductive. BC really needs to lose this "us and them" mentality, which will be tough since it seems to have been around at least as long as lumberjacks.



So have I (travelled world wide)!


So have I, to both the richest and the poorest places in the world, from 5-star residences in Switzerland to dirt-poor villages in Sudan.

How does our own slum compare? It's a misleading question. The DTES is not Kibera or the slums of Mumbai. Those places are filled with migrants from the countryside who are simply poor. Ours are filled with broken people we've rejected from both city and country for various reasons. While Hastings & Main does not remotely compare to Kibera for sheer poverty, there's a nasty and hopeless atmosphere here that they don't have. If you must compare our slums to those of poor countries, compare them to the favelas of Rio. That's much more apt (and scary).

Here's a better lesson to be gained from looking at poor countries: compare our own efforts at civic improvement with those of international aid groups. After decades of aid, most everyone who looks at the problem has agreed that simply handing out aid money makes things worse in the long run, encouraging cultures of dependency as well as corruption. Don't leap to any conclusions yet, though ... The aid industry realized that ten or twenty years ago and changed direction to encourage more responsibility and long-term planning, and this also hasn't done a lot to fix anything (although naturally the people in the business will be keen to deny that). Now we have mass displacements and accompanying wars fuelled by a mania for globalization, and more corruption than ever. And don't ever think that corruption is just their problem and not ours. The staff of our own official aid agencies are far too comfortable in their careers.

The worst of it is... the answer to this mess is clear and right in front of our faces, and people just can't achieve it. While the government aid circus grinds on, driven all around by people who are twisting policy to suit their own interests, real progress does get made on the ground by small private groups and individuals. At least, real progress does get made until some official (who could be from a government or from an aid agency) decides to stir up trouble and shut them down, which happens much too often.

Thus we come full circle back to the same problem we have here: in every segment of society, no matter how much they might seem to be doing good, there always seem to be some troublemakers who will keep polarizing people more and more because it's in their best interests personally (not meaning anybody here). All the rest of us need to educate ourselves, stop believing these people and start trying to really get along with each other.

---------



How much more are you willing to contribute on your personal tax bill to to end homelessness? Give us a dollar amount...for example $1000.



Waiting to hear what all you 'anti-olympics' criers will donate.


Waiting to hear what YOU will donate... and why you think this is a good idea (if you do).
 beaker49
Joined: 10/31/2005
Msg: 74
view profile
History
Olympic Protest (APC)
Posted: 2/17/2010 6:19:25 PM
Looks like we have a gooddebate going on here!

A couple of responses:

Message 73: "Is this thread about protest or about homelessness?"
The two issues have become one and the same because the Olympic Protesters have adopted Vancouver Homelessness as their "Cause Celebre". It is unfortunate that the real Homeless cause will suffer as a result.

Message 71 - Ed Bear: "Not even a bit of a socialist"
You're joking right? It looks to me like you gave us the whole Pinko Manifesto here and revealed your true political stripes.
But, that should be another thread...Socialism/Communism vs Capitalism/Democracy.

"I'd be VERY willing to have half of my olympic bill go to providing shelter"

The question was, how much are you personally willing to contribute in extra taxes,
not how much of your taxes should go toward homelessnes.
As Canadian taxpayers we do not get to choose where the government allocates our tax dollars. We do however get to choose our government.


Personally I am only willing to contribute $100 extra on my taxes. I feel that I pay far to much in taxes already. We need to build our economy to create more jobs which in turn creates a larger tax base. Yes we poor working slobs will have to pay the taxes.
Ed Bear may hate the corporations but they are the ones that can provide the jobs with their capital investments. Sure we can tax the hell out of the corporations but they will just take their jobs to China or Mexico or India. That my friends is the economic reality of the world we live in today. If we want to provide our less fortunate citizens with a better safety net then we as a nation had better work harder and figure out how to become more competitive in our world economy. It ain't gonna happen sittin on our butts smokin the BC bud and lookin for a handout.
When every able person contributes...we all prosper.
 Ed Bear
Joined: 5/19/2007
Msg: 77
view profile
History
Olympic Protest (APC)
Posted: 2/18/2010 4:12:44 AM
Well, let me be even perfectly clearer:

I am angered by the idea of being asked to pay ANY more when all I have paid is given away to greed. In what way will MY further soaking make up for an infinite vacuum cleaner of cupidity?

No, I won't pay again! I'll chase down the ones who created those problems and took the taxes we paid to address them!

As I noted - this is like Premier Campbell on his instant tax reform on first being elected. Choosing to ridicule a woman who told him she was angered that she was getting a tax cut worth a so-so restaurant meal, and high-income earners were getting thousands, he challenged her to return her tax cut if she didn't like it.

Which is misdirecting bulloney, since it was the cuts to the most fortunate she was complaining about, not her pathetic payment (which of course didn't even cover medicare service cuts and medicare and sales tax increases, let alone all the other user fees blooming since).

So, NO. What I'm protesting is the money taken from all of us by a rich private club, the IOC, with the egomaniac political class of our country galloping alongside.

I'm a big lover of democracy and competition, but we never had any serious candidates to vote for who didn't support the olympics. We did have the Vancouver-only referendum - non-binding and after the deals had already been signed.

ED BEAR
 Snotsure
Joined: 9/14/2009
Msg: 78
Olympic Protest (APC)
Posted: 2/18/2010 5:30:42 AM
^^^ Politics are Politics are Politics. The system is what it is and I for one am quite happy to live where I do. Do I like all parts of the system? Hell no, but I have seen other parts of the world and I appreciate where I live. I also am pretty appreciative of the fact that we aren't in a "depression". Campbell is just another leader we voted into power (more than once I may add) who will never be able to make everyone happy. Deal with it!

As for the Olympic protesters, well, a portion of them are bad apples and they have been pulled from the batch.

I have to say that I think it's great that there is this venue (Olympics in our back yard) that has created a spotlight on our city and afforded the protesters more visibility globally to make more aware of their cause. I hope that this is a catalyst for more change and the possibility of more "care" for the homeless affected by mental disorders.
 mcalgary
Joined: 11/10/2009
Msg: 80
view profile
History
Olympic Protest (APC)
Posted: 2/18/2010 10:37:16 AM
The tactics of this group are not going to pull anyone to their side and, if anything, will hurt the positive economic impact the games should have going forward by showing Vancouver as a, NOT SAFE, place to visit.
Many of the APC members are also on the DTES residents association and have a vested interest in keeping the people of this area in poverty to justify their wages and bring down the people who actually want to help the area get out of this predicament. I was afraid of much worse from this group though and hope it is still not coming.

They should be taking advantage of the opportunities that these olympics should have brought forward for them (temp employment for example) and use it to bring the positive side of their agenda to help themselves, not make us go against them.
 mcalgary
Joined: 11/10/2009
Msg: 81
view profile
History
Olympic Protest (APC)
Posted: 2/18/2010 10:38:37 AM

How much more are you willing to contribute on your personal tax bill to to end homelessness? Give us a dollar amount...for example $1000.




Waiting to hear what all you 'anti-olympics' criers will donate.


Waiting to hear what YOU will donate... and why you think this is a good idea (if you do). {/quote]

The problem is that these people have no income to tax so they will and cannot help pay. It is easy to demand things when you don't have to pay for it.
 Ed Bear
Joined: 5/19/2007
Msg: 82
view profile
History
Olympic Protest (APC)
Posted: 2/23/2010 8:05:45 AM
I certainly DID vote against the olympics in the "referendum" - lest anyone doubt it. Though the referendum's defeat would probably not have changed anything, the deals already having been done.

Taxes? Excuse me, but under Campbell's Socreds, income taxes have been cut over 20%, but sales taxes and medicare and other fees are taking a bigger part of the burden.

Even the penniless and those on welfare pay those. The GST/Carbon tax rebates are less than the cost ven for the poorest, and all the other fees save medicare are not means-tested.

The working poor pay more in flat or regressive taxes than progressive ones.
ED BEAR
 mcalgary
Joined: 11/10/2009
Msg: 83
view profile
History
Olympic Protest (APC)
Posted: 2/23/2010 4:22:15 PM

Taxes? Excuse me, but under Campbell's Socreds, income taxes have been cut over 20%, but sales taxes and medicare and other fees are taking a bigger part of the burden.

Even the penniless and those on welfare pay those. The GST/Carbon tax rebates are less than the cost ven for the poorest, and all the other fees save medicare are not means-tested.

The working poor pay more in flat or regressive taxes than progressive ones.



You do not pay GST/HST/PST on Food or housing so the only basic need you pay these taxes on is Clothing and cleaning products.

Consumption taxes work because you pay more taxes with the more money you spend. I am sorry but EVERYONE should be paying some tax. I am completely tired of making an OK amount of money, not qualifying for any kind of subsidy and seeing people making less money than I, have more disposable income than I do because they qualify for all kinds of tax breaks.

The rich do not pay enough taxes. No one will argue against this but the more they spend the more they pay too. With simple income taxes it is too easy to shelter that money and not pay taxes on it for the rich. I spreads out the tax burden to everyone not just the middle class.

If you make less than 20 000 dollars a year you are paying very little tax and very little in any sales taxes over the rebates given so the very poor are taken care of unless they CHOOSE to eat out everyday instead of buying groceries or waste their money.

Since the Liberals came to power my disposable income has gone up a lot more than my income has so I am thankful to them for that. Even if I pretty much disagree with almost everything else they do.
 Ed Bear
Joined: 5/19/2007
Msg: 84
view profile
History
Olympic Protest (APC)
Posted: 2/24/2010 1:47:24 AM
We DO pay GST on many foods - only "basic groceries" are exempt, and that means that small packages and prepared foods are not tax-exempt. Everything else but rent is taxed, pretty much, and more will be when the HST digs in. And, of course, everyone seems so righteous about them paying so much in "sin taxes" and gambling scams run by the government.

My disposable income has gone down under Campbell - I don't have a family or house, so those tax breaks are useless, and the medicare increases alone ate the microscopic income tax cut.

The rich pay MUCH less of their income, as a proportion, in consumption taxes - because they spend so little of iton taxable goods. They buy investments, which are tax-free to buy, and make them low-tax income. People of limited means spend all their cash on consumables, and then pay tax on the things they buy with income they haven't even earned et,living in permanent debt.

We do and will have sales taxes, and fees for things we don't want over-used. But all the rest I said about the rich being freed from taxes in the modern neo-con state stands. They get money borrowed, given to them, and then someone else has to pay it back.

Endless credit is not sane for any government, no matter its right/left mix.
ED BEAR
 mcalgary
Joined: 11/10/2009
Msg: 87
view profile
History
Olympic Protest (APC)
Posted: 2/25/2010 5:22:22 PM

People do not make the choice of being homeless....people make the choice of feeling wanted and needed.


Sorry but that is definantly not the case. Many people are homeless not because of any choice they made, true. But they definanlty made poor choices that got them into that predicament. Some might have mental issues and cannot take care of themselves and should be in a place like Riverview not roaming the streets and being prayed upon by the drug dealers.

Many others are homeless because they are loners and hate "The Man". I am a transit driver and talk to many of these people and they choose to be homeless so the goverment cannot tell them what they can and cannot do and do not want any government handouts.

Homelessness will never be solved!!!!!! The more the government spends to just house these people the more that will come from across North America looking to be supported by the government. The DT Eastside Residents Association makes sure of this as they go out east and round up as many people as they can talk into coming out here as they can to they can justify their paychecks. This was told to me just a few days ago by a man who was asked to come out from Toronto as they needed more people for the world to see as homeless. He was not homeless at all but a person on Assistance in Ontario with a small apartment that was given a paid way out here to experience the Olympics and appear as homeless.
 beaker49
Joined: 10/31/2005
Msg: 88
view profile
History
Olympic Protest (APC)
Posted: 2/25/2010 5:27:04 PM
Hey...Runs With Wolves
Are you saying our economic focus should be on Native Land Claims? good lol
I think that could be another Forum titled:
OH CANADA....."OUR HOME...OR...NATIVE LAND?"
Actually that is part of the title of a very insightful book by Mel Smith...look it up and read it.

I am so tired of so many people with their hand out demanding their "entitlements"
Maybe we should all just live on government funded "entitlements". I wonder how long that economic model would be sustainable....NOT.

As far as Native Land Claims....me thinks that based on European customs and the laws of the time (centuries ago), we stole the land fair and square. Just look at the historical maps of Europe to see how many times their borders were redrawn. Are the losers in those land shuffles getting paid "land claim settlements" today?

Yes, I said we stole the land, but we continue to pay a huge mortgage on it to this day. I think the "deed" should finally be ours now.

I say there should be one Canada and with only one class of Citizen called "Canadian". No special status for anybody, not Natives, not French Canadians or the Vancouver Island Marmot or whoever else thinks they should have special status and be exempt from whatever doesn't suit them.

Have a look at USA history (Land of the Free, Home of the Brave); do they have Native Land claim issues? No, not like Canada does, they handled their problems in a very different manner...some call it genocide. Canada is much more civilized don't you think?

BE HAPPY....BE CANADIAN

Below is a review of the book mentioned above.

Our Home OR Native Land:
What Governments' Aboriginal Policy is Doing to Canada
Melvin H. Smith Q.C.
Stoddart Publishing Co. Limited (1995)
Toronto, Canada

Mel Smith spent thirty-one years in the public service of British Columbia and was the ranking lawyer on constitutional law for four administrations. In1969, Prime Minister Trudeau asked if Indians would be a "race apart" or "Canadians of full status." The answer should have been easy, but it wasn't. Perhaps the best way to sample his book is simply sharing a few quotes from the Forward that will give a flavor of what can happen when "Legalized Racism" is empowered by "Cultural Fictions":

"The native agenda has taken us on a frightening journey through the looking glass where everything is backwards.
"Tiny communities are given enormous tracts of land while the majority of Canadians is not only ignored but kept in the dark. Incredible sums of money are spent--worse, even larger amounts are committed to be paid by future generations.
"We have committed ourselves to a land full of homelands, the very notion which revolted the civilized world when they were created in South Africa.
"We have developed a huge industry around "native land claims" and the rewards for the participants are enormous.
"If this book doesn't wake up a sleeping public, God help us all, including the generations to come."
 beaker49
Joined: 10/31/2005
Msg: 89
view profile
History
Olympic Protest (APC)
Posted: 2/25/2010 7:01:32 PM
I found the following post on the Vancouver Anti Poverty Committee's website today in their Forum section. Some of their supporters are not very happy with what happened in Vancouver.

http://apcvancouver.org/bbpress/topic.php?id=11

"Conflicted and angry"

I'm a middle class father with a loving wife and two great kids aged 7 and 10. Life isn't always easy and it's a struggle to pay the bills and get by as best we can. I've also had my share of ups and downs - some pretty bad downs. My wife and I have made a point of giving to grass roots charities and being involved in our community - trying to help make it a better place. Having grown up in East Vancouver, we've also been strong advocates of creating positive changes for the people of the downtown East Side.

The Olympics have been a challenge for us. We understand the opportunities a world scale event like this can bring to our city, but at what cost? Is it at the expense of people who are suffering and need assistance? We have had many heated discussions. But, our hearts were always with the rights of the average person - a person who could get steamrolled by a very big machine.

That being said, our children were very interested in and excited about the games. They were attracted to the spectacle of it all. My daughter loves the mascots, seeing the torch relay and learning about the athletes. We didn't want to take away what could be a positive experience for them but we also took time to talk to them about some of the other issues involved and how for some people, this wouldn't be a positive experience. We couldn't be too heavy about it, but felt that as long as they were aware and perhaps thought about it a little, that was a good first step.

So, to make a very long story short, my son and daughter really wanted to see the Olympic countdown clock and some of the other things going on in the city. We took the opportunity to do that on Sunday. I wasn't aware of the protest. When we did encounter it, I thought, ok, this would be good for them to see. We could talk about it afterwards. While standing and watching with my kids and trying to explain what was happening, my daughter was still holding and waving her Canadian flag. Then, out of no where, a protestor confronted us yelled directly in her face "F*** the Olympics and f*** your f***ing flag too". Other people cheered him on.

I was so shocked I wasn't sure what had just happened. Then, my feelings quickly turned to outrage. How dare someone scare an innocent child like that. She burst into tears and felt that she was doing something wrong. A day later she is still upset and afraid.

I have lost all respect for your organization. I know you can't control everyone who participates in your protests but you know what, I think that's the problem. It seemed to me like there was an energy of anger and borderline violence that was carefully orchestrated to encourage behavior like this. Perhaps with the hope of having a violent encounter captured by the media as a photo opportunity. Talk about spin doctors. This organization spins with the best of them.

I'll end by saying that if your goal is to steamroll your views and objectives over everyone who disagrees with you, even innocent 7-year old children, then you succeeded on this day. I'll be spending the next few weeks trying to undo the damage caused by a thoughtless bully disguised as someone who's actually trying to make a difference.

I'm also going to make sure the media hears my story.

Bill Sanderson
Vancouver
 Ed Bear
Joined: 5/19/2007
Msg: 91
view profile
History
Olympic Protest (APC)
Posted: 2/26/2010 9:49:44 AM
I can't imagine a separate-nations system of nested countries and nations and reserves being accepted if it was created today. But it was created by treaties long before our lifetime and our values, and doing away with it would leave a large proportion natives with nothing at all, as if they were penniless new refugees in our continent. For the same reason, I would grant the BC bands without ratified treaties similar conditions.

It would be nice to think we might leave such racial or patrimonial divisions behind us, but to change the rules now would take away what was bought dearly with fruits non-native Canadians still enjoy.

ED BEAR
 beaker49
Joined: 10/31/2005
Msg: 93
view profile
History
Olympic Protest (APC)
Posted: 3/4/2010 9:16:56 PM
Well, the Olympics are over and in my opinion they were a fantastic success.
The Protesters failed to kill the joy or dampen the spirits of the vast majority of Canadians who supported and enjoyed the Olympics. If nothing else the Olympics served to unite our wonderful nation and that small benefit alone is worth the price tag.

Chris Shaw of the Olympic Resistance Network is quoted as saying: he doesn't plan to protest the Paralympics, nor has he heard of anyone else aiming to do so.
I guess the protesters now know they have been defeated by using the Olympics as their whipping boy. Lets hope they can find a more constructive way to get their message out in the future.

OH CANADA!
 mcalgary
Joined: 11/10/2009
Msg: 95
view profile
History
Olympic Protest (APC)
Posted: 3/12/2010 9:39:18 PM
^^^^^

great points beyond. Also for the people that are complaining about The so called "Liberal's Olympics" remember that it was the NDP that started the ball rolling in supporting the initial bid.
 Ed Bear
Joined: 5/19/2007
Msg: 96
view profile
History
Olympic Protest (APC)
Posted: 3/13/2010 3:25:31 PM
Actually, it's the SoCred olympics. Members of the bankrupt Social Credit party walked away from its debts and joined the small, poor but vibrant Liberal party in the late 1990s and then purged all the Liberals, even the one who gave up his seat for Campbell.

BC's Campbell Socreds consistently support Harper's henchmen in Ottawa and during elections, too. As someone who usually voted Liberal until coming to BC, it still rankles to hear them use that name.
ED BEAR
Never even considered voting for Campbell, despite living in his riding.
Show ALL Forums  > British Columbia  >