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 jed456
Joined: 4/26/2005
Msg: 37
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Canada at war. With who?Page 2 of 5    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5)
The taliban was harboring osama bin laden,wouldnt give him up remember?Remember 9-11,I did I was in ny that day.When one nato country is attacked,it is considered an attack on all members.Since the us is part of nato Canada among other nations they fullfilled thier obligation.Now iraq that is another story .
 jed456
Joined: 4/26/2005
Msg: 38
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Canada at war. With who?
Posted: 6/27/2007 9:04:41 PM
Go to the fbi page ten most wanted osama bin laden.But It is obvious we do not agree on this issue,So you have your beliefs I have mine.
 jed456
Joined: 4/26/2005
Msg: 39
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Canada at war. With who?
Posted: 6/27/2007 9:25:53 PM
Yes looked it up all true,But since he was hiding in afghanistan.I still belive the us took the right move in trying to take him out and the taliban.I do have a question how would you feel if the U.S. attacked saudi arabia?
 Montreal_Guy
Joined: 3/8/2004
Msg: 40
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Canada at war. With who?
Posted: 6/28/2007 6:15:44 AM
Politically, ( as cynical as this sounds) after an attack like 9/11 (on the USA) , there was only one response. The shock on the American public of that attack had to be paid with an attack on the only country they could quickly pin anything on.

Reagan invaded some smaller countries, and America started to "feel good" about itself.

After 9/11 , it was suddenly an "Old Testament" world. America had been devastated, and had no massive military attack been quickly produced - I believe there would have been hell to pay.

"An eye for an eye...."
 jed456
Joined: 4/26/2005
Msg: 41
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Canada at war. With who?
Posted: 6/28/2007 6:27:58 AM
Yes my point was,Since most of the hijackers were from saudi arabia,what is his stance view if the us attacked saudi arabia?Also im not allowed to ask his personal opinion if this occured?
 jed456
Joined: 4/26/2005
Msg: 42
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Canada at war. With who?
Posted: 6/28/2007 6:36:27 AM
And would the gentlemen feel an attack was justified or would you grog?
 rsx11s
Joined: 3/28/2007
Msg: 43
Canada at war. With who?
Posted: 6/28/2007 11:14:52 AM

Well I have found the majority of family members of soldiers killed have supported the mission and stated that their son or daughter believed in why we are there.


Not even all the soldiers do.

Reports from American citizens living in Afghanistan indicate the US is making a mess and they love the Canadian presnece and hope they'll stay forever. Which is nice and all, but is this really Canada's fight?


I believe the government wants to keep the media at arm's length out of respect for the fallen, and the families.


Oh no. Bad guess. If you'd read the press at the time you'd know it was the families of the fallen soldiers that led the protests against the government news blackout of the coffins arrivig home. I live near enough to the Trenton base - it was a big deal around here.

The US lerned during vietnam - the first televised war - that the sight of Americas sons coming home in body bags and boxes was one of the mitigating factors that led to proetst of and the end of the war. So they put a stop to that in the US post 1990 and tried recently to stop it in Canada ("Hello Steve. Hi George. Hey no bodies on tv ok? Got ya there good buddy"). It did not go ever well.


It all boils down to one big mess.


Is it a bigger mess than before the US invaded?
 ebit36
Joined: 11/24/2004
Msg: 44
Canada at war. With who?
Posted: 6/28/2007 1:07:28 PM
Reagan invaded some smaller countries, and America started to "feel good" about itself.

I`m one American who did not feel good about my country after Reagan`s invasions.
Actually felt kind of sick about them.
When the trade towers were hit i wasn`t surprised at all. Just wondered where they were from as so many people from so many countries have been devastated by U.S. foreign policy.
 rsx11s
Joined: 3/28/2007
Msg: 45
Canada at war. With who?
Posted: 6/28/2007 2:14:14 PM

So using that logic, what exactly would constitute a legitimate fight for Canada to be in? Historically, none of the conflicts we have participated in have been "Canada's fight". The Boer war, WW1, WW2, Korea... none of these directly involved Canada apart from us doing the right thing and going in to a fight along with our allies to stop bad things from happening.

What DID result from these conflicts is that Canada gained the respect of the world, and its autonomy as a country of its own.


Canada gained its autonomy? Huh?

Let's back up a bit and look at Afghanistan, the topid here, not some theoretical musing about who Canada should and should not fight.

The Taliban was the democratically elected government of Afghanistan. They were elected because of two things: they promised to get rid of the warlords that sold drugs for guns and staged tribal battles. This made life difficult for the average Afghani. And they vowed to get rif of the opium poppies, an essential part of the warlord ecosystem.

But, the US had issues with the Taliban and as others have pointed out Afghanistan is a strategic location for an oil pipeline from Balkan sources to mid east refineries. So the US invaded.

The net result is the US made deals with the warlords and the opium crop in 2006-2007 is up 59% from the year before.

So, if you ask me should Canada help Afghanistan I have to ask "how so?"

The current situation has degraded over there to the kind of mess that made it ripe for a Taliban to be elected. Am I proud Canada helped in this? Not really.

Would I support Canadian troops getting rid of the warlords and poppies? Yes. But this is the opposite of what's happening now under American strategy.

Does this strike you as particularly unreasonable?
 whiskeypapa
Joined: 6/7/2007
Msg: 49
Canada at war. With who?
Posted: 6/28/2007 9:30:18 PM
"...the Taliban were set up there, trained there, and that was their base of operation...."

The Taliban are Pashtun, ( at over 20 million people they are the worlds largest tribal group), are citizens of afghanistan and Pakistan. Possibly you are refering to al-quida allies of the US .

the US had no evidence that Osama had anything to do with 911, there is more evidence that they had an ulterior motive for the invasion of Afghanistan, mainly to secure a route for the UNOCAL pipeline.

fifteen fanatics from various countries committed a crime of terror in the US. That does not warrant an invasion and devastation of an innocent country.
 passionteman
Joined: 3/7/2005
Msg: 51
Canada at war. With who?
Posted: 6/29/2007 12:58:39 PM
^^ But you don't go to 9/11 and ask the question "Who started it?".
 rsx11s
Joined: 3/28/2007
Msg: 53
Canada at war. With who?
Posted: 6/29/2007 2:48:26 PM

Its because of 9/11 that Canada is in Afghanastan


Ok, good, now why did 9/11 happen?
 rsx11s
Joined: 3/28/2007
Msg: 56
Canada at war. With who?
Posted: 6/29/2007 4:50:42 PM
By this logic if my house was burgled by a guy in Brighton I should have a guy in Barrie arrested?

The gaunlet was dropped. I was burgled. Somebody has to pay.

I think the west has got off light for all their messing around in the middle east. Very very light.

If you haven't read up on much of this try "Clash of the civilizations" or if movies are more your thing try "Lawrence of Arabia" and "Syriana". Then tell me you feel the same way.
 jed456
Joined: 4/26/2005
Msg: 57
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Canada at war. With who?
Posted: 6/29/2007 6:34:39 PM
After 9-11 someone had to pay that being osama bin laden and the taliban we can go around in circles for the next 100 yrs arguing over this.I for one felt being from ny being there that day someone is going to pay,and I dont think the american public would have stood for less then us bombing the shit out of al queda.Iraq on the otherhand in my opinion should never have happened.But I hope by the next election most of the troops will be coming home,but I believe, I could be wrong the us is building 14 bases there so were there for awhile.
 jed456
Joined: 4/26/2005
Msg: 58
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Canada at war. With who?
Posted: 6/29/2007 7:22:16 PM
Not quite If I had a child I wouldnt tell him to strap a bomb on his back and go blow up some people on a bus.Nice try though
 LoonyTunz
Joined: 8/11/2006
Msg: 59
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Canada at war. With who?
Posted: 6/29/2007 7:23:47 PM


canada will be at war with the United States pretty soon if they dont start securing their borders better pretty soon


That message has to have been brought to us by some colombian blow smuggled into the US via miami.
Chevelle, y'all tried that before, and ummm needed to rebuild a certain whitehouse because of that.

Back OT, Quebec has the lowest support for this action in Afghanistan, so protests there are to be expected. Traditionally Quebecer's have never been the warrior type, even when we were trying to oust german forces from france, to increase enrollment quebecers had to be offered a guarantee of "support (ie no fighting) roles if they wished to join....... Just don't make a bilingual sign with english words as large as the french words.
yet, remarkably the Van Doo's seem to have depported themselves with professionalism. On not only thins occassion but in others aswell.
 msquared
Joined: 8/31/2004
Msg: 61
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Canada at war. With who?
Posted: 6/30/2007 4:54:14 AM

Lot of proof can found to back that up.


Provide it, then.
 whiskeypapa
Joined: 6/7/2007
Msg: 63
Canada at war. With who?
Posted: 6/30/2007 8:22:39 AM
The Taliban are Pashtun, doing what they have done for the last couple of hundred years, fighting invaders and kicking them out of their country. They had nothing to do with 911 and your justification for their destruction is wrong.

The Taliban/Afghanistans have never been a threat to Canada and even after lockstepping with bush and adopting the PNAC as our national goal they still are not a threat. Your hysterical fear that the "extremist jihadists" will attack us is just a bad dream from reading to many right-wing blogs.

Canada is'nt doing any good in Afghanistan. Just tidying up after the US's destruction, doing security work for the puppet karzai government that only exists in Kabul, and attempting to pacify the south for the pipeline corridor. This is work that Blackwater should be doing.
 gentalltheway
Joined: 9/9/2006
Msg: 64
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Canada at war. With who?
Posted: 6/30/2007 9:19:47 AM

The reason for low support is the fact they feel it is Canadas war and they pick when they wish to be separate.


Oh I would just love to read your "proof" about that one!


They are alot like France however. Give in to the enemy get their butts saved by others and then crap on the ones who saved their asses.


WOW!!! It's quite obvious that you have a certain hatred for the people of Quebec. The claim you wrote (above) is not only stupid but also a true sign of a lack of intelligence.


Yes and their big hero the Rocket refused service as well. Some hero ay


“as well”??? WTF is that suppose to mean??? Are you claiming that all from Quebec refused to served when needed???

By the way, Maurice Richard did enlist but was rejected because of injuries he sustained within a year which were a fractured ankle and wrist. Get your facts straight!
 gentalltheway
Joined: 9/9/2006
Msg: 66
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Canada at war. With who?
Posted: 6/30/2007 10:30:57 AM
I do not hate french. I am french. I hate seperatists and cowards


I never mentioned that you hated french...I wrote that you hate people from Quebec. A bit different.

By the way, I am still waiting for the so called "proof " of yours in regards to your claims. Are you just full of BS or will you actually step up to the plate and provide your "proof"?

Also, you claimed that Maurice Richard was a coward yet again without any proof. In my past experiences, I found that most big mouths who make such claims are the ones who are in fact...cowards! Saying that, since you "hate cowards" so much, why don't you go to any pub in Montreal and voice out your opinion about Mr. Richard? I am sure you will have nothing to worry about since the people from Quebec are cowards...right?
 Thatguy67
Joined: 9/20/2006
Msg: 67
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Canada at war. With who?
Posted: 6/30/2007 1:23:15 PM
Maurice Richard tried 3x to join the military in combat and non-combat roles and was turned down.
 whiskeypapa
Joined: 6/7/2007
Msg: 70
Canada at war. With who?
Posted: 7/6/2007 11:04:48 PM
it is very fine to support the troops but it seems to follow that if one supports the troops one supports the mission. So if the mission is to support the USs collective punishment of the Afghanis it is very difficult to support the troops.
 gizmosellschickens
Joined: 5/20/2007
Msg: 73
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Canada at war. With who?
Posted: 9/29/2007 3:11:14 PM
with too many deer. The goverment has to shoot bambi, and elk to bring the population that what there at war at.
 svj
Joined: 9/15/2007
Msg: 76
Canada at war. With who?
Posted: 9/30/2007 12:52:16 PM
A person that thinks war is the right way... has never been in one.

Most of the idiots that scream "Kill 'em all and let God sort them out" are doing so in a very comfortable chair. The most dangerous part of their day is crossing the street in rush hour on the way to Starbuck's. They are not at war. They are not doing the dying.

They're just watching it on TV.

Personally, I find it very frustrating that the number of people in my country and the US that loudly advocate sticking guns in people's faces is so much larger than the amount of people that actually have the balls to stand by their beliefs and do it.

If you like war so much, then man up and join the Forces. If not, that leaves you as a hypocrite.

I f*cking hate armchair triggermen.
 Ravenstar66
Joined: 8/27/2007
Msg: 77
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Canada at war. With who?
Posted: 9/30/2007 3:06:05 PM
I can support my country's troop without supporting war. I can honour them while disagreeing with our Government for getting involved. I am most upset because we are taking the place of Americans in afghanistan, not because as a NATO country we are there. It's the fact that by our presence that jack*ss in the states can do more damage in Iraq.

And it hell high time people remembered that war=death. Yes, the death of those boys and girls coming home in boxes. What? are we to become like the americans and ignore the reality of it? The families and the country NEED to know what the price is for our inclusion in this conflict, without knowing the price how can we make informed decisions about what policies we support as Canadians? I think every one of our dead soldiers should have his coffin paraded in front of the House of Parliament (respectfully...it's a form of honouring his/her sacrifice)...and Mr. Harper should preside at every funeral. He should meet with each and every family that has lost a loved one...that's his obligation to the families whose son or daughter has fought for the country: our men and women who served with honour, at his request.

It's not unpatriotic to protest a war, it's not a sign that one doesn't have great reverence for their soldiers. It's free speech, something our neighbors to the south are losing rapidly. Something our grandfathers fought and died for. Let's learn from history, shall we.

I have many veterans in my family. Some were around to see this debacle of Iraq. Every one I spoke to was heartbroken that many young men will die over all this crap. They unanimously abhorred the whole thing. They know what it really means to be at war... they have the medals to prove it. Not one supported the US invasion of Iraq. Not one. And who better would be able judge a thing like that...and they were all volunteers in WW2.

I didn't see the protest in Quebec, but I would be very surprised to see a Canadian abuse one of our soldiers, or their families. We are grown up enough to know the soldiers don't make policy anyway, it's the Government. Sheesh.

I am saddened to hear neo-con attitudes coming from my fellow Canadians. I love this country dearly, and am proud that we aren't like the (more war like) americans.(some, not all...some are marvelous people) I am proud that we seem to be a pretty reasonable and tolerant people. I am proud that we don't have to be arrogant...that we can be strong without being bullies. I am proud of our multicultural roots... how we welcome all who want to be here. I have several muslims living in my building...not once have I seen any of them raise their voices much less demonstrate violence. I have taken that to be an example...that muslims are probably just like any other people... and fanaticism is dangerous no matter what guise it wears. Moral Majority anyone?
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