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 SAIUN
Joined: 5/23/2007
Msg: 251
simple question - do you believe in a god?Page 11 of 26    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26)
I'd like to point out that one can't really "preach" athiesm, as it is not a faith. It's a scientific analysis of data. There is no proof God exists, therefore God does not exist (to athiests).

Faith, believing in something there is no evidence for, is something one preaches. We can't know for sure if God exists or not, but just believe in him anyway, please.

FYI I'm not an athiest, so please don't flame me. Sauce be upon you.
 dancecard
Joined: 3/19/2006
Msg: 252
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simple question - do you believe in a god?
Posted: 11/13/2008 10:12:10 AM

Faith, believing in something there is no evidence for, is something one preaches. We can't know for sure if God exists or not, but just believe in him anyway, please.

FYI I'm not an athiest, so please don't flame me. Sauce be upon you


LOL! sauce hmm ~ okay ~ it that like the swurtz? ~

all roads lead to Rome,

that to say there is many way in ~ into the subject. ~

Who would like to suggest that we are no more ~ then the total sum of all our parts?

there is more to us there then just teeth , hair and eyes. There is an awareness. For anything to exist ~ you must be aware of it., other wise it doesn't exist. ~ And if it doesn't exist ~ why are we getting all lathered up about it not existing?

In anycase, it don't really matter to me ~ we all headed for a dirt nap ~ curtain call for the next show. death is the nature balance of nature ~and from death comes life.

You see it everywhere you look, ~ at least I do ~ don't you?

Dance
 lyingcheat
Joined: 10/1/2008
Msg: 253
simple question - do you believe in a god?
Posted: 11/13/2008 10:20:18 AM

This thread started with a simple question but became an arm wrestle for some to ignore other’s belief by belittling where people extract their hope and strength.

It's still a simple question isn't it?
"Do you believe in a god?"

Apparently some do, some don't. Some are happy to express themselves and leave it at that. Others are keen to debate or discuss the issue. That's the purpose of these forums.

Disagreeing is not 'belittling', as you put it, and debating shouldn't be confused with 'arm wrestling'.
It's strange that you talk about respect for others beliefs, yet seem to have a very adversarial attitude?

I am intrigued though about that quote you selected...

There are many many very interesting opinions expressed throughout the thread, and several very well known quotes. For instance, at message20, Naamah quotes Einstein and at message92 she does so again. These are very famous quotes and are often referred to in religious debate.

At message135, chelloveck produces some very pertinent links, two of which are particularly relevant to this conversation.

I have some sympathy for Alice in her conversations with Humpty Dumpty... http://www.sabian.org/Alice/lgchap06.htm
...and her subsequent conversations with the Red and White queens in Alice Through the Looking Glass.
http://everything2.com/index.pl?node=Through%20the%20Looking%20Glass%20-%20Chapter%209


So, given the pertinence and obvious significance of these references, and others, I am, as I say, most interested in your selection of this particular quote.

One of the best quotes in this thread is message 304:

If non believers call christians who preach to others bible bashers , what do you call non believers that preach atheism ????

And also the the reasoning behind your statement that precedes it. One of the best you think? I'm not even sure what it's saying. Can you explain what it means?
 IzzyB73
Joined: 6/26/2007
Msg: 254
simple question - do you believe in a god?
Posted: 11/13/2008 5:24:59 PM

And also the the reasoning behind your statement that precedes it. One of the best you think? I'm not even sure what it's saying. Can you explain what it means?


I will do my best to explain what it means , or more to the point my reasoning for making the statement . It seems to me and this is of course my opinion, society in general appear to mock christianity and the beliefs and theories behind it , it seems to be socially acceptable to label christians no matter what denomination they are, as naive, crazy , ill informed or just simply dellusional, it is just as offensive to a person that has faith to be mocked / made fun of for having a belief system just as it is for the non believers who feel they are bible bashed when someone that has a faith wishes to discuss what they believe in. Christian bashing seems to be tolerated more than bible bashing.

A few have said in this thread that no one really knows what the truth is and that to me seems the most sensible opinion in the whole debate of whether there is a God or not. I as I have said before choose to believe there is , and yes I could be wrong , I really have nothing to loose either way ..
 Goddess of dreams
Joined: 5/12/2007
Msg: 255
simple question - do you believe in a god?
Posted: 11/13/2008 8:15:05 PM

Disagreeing is not 'belittling', as you put it, and debating shouldn't be confused with 'arm wrestling'.


Disagreeing, I have no problem with and that's the best part of a debate, but keep in mind a debate isn't and shouldn't be about who is right or wrong. An intelligent person also learns what he/she didn't know previously and it's a way to further educating oneself.

Belittling examples are many in this thread I just point to one recent one. post 302


It's strange that you talk about respect for others beliefs, yet seem to have a very adversarial attitude?


your opinion and not my motives



So, given the pertinence and obvious significance of these references, and others, I am, as I say, most interested in your selection of this particular quote.


thank you.

and by reading the posted sites regarding Alice and her conversation that poster 135 brought to our attention, I can see better why I found some of your posts so confusing.

As for Einstein do we know what exactly he meant in the other quote??? Have we read enough books on his thoughts and beliefs or just google what we need to hear???? Here is what I wanted to find.

The following comes from "What Life Means to Einstein: An Interview by George Sylvester Viereck,"The Saturday Evening Post, Oct. 26, 1929, p. 17.

"To what extent are you influenced by Christianity?"
"As a child, I received instruction both in the Bible and in the Talmud. I am a Jew, but I am enthralled by the luminous figure of the Nazarene."

"Have you read Emil Ludwig's book on Jesus?
"Emil Ludwig's Jesus," replied Einstein, "is shallow. Jesus is too colossal for the pen of phrasemongers, however artful. No man can dispose of Christianity with a bon mot."

"You accept the historical existence of Jesus?"
"Unquestionably. No one can read the Gospels without feeling the actual presence of Jesus. His personality pulsates in every word. No myth is filled with such life. How different, for instance, is the impression which we receive from an account of legendary heroes of antiquity like Theseus. Theseus and other heroes of his type lack the authentic vitality of Jesus."

"Ludwig Lewisohn, in one of his recent books, claims that many of the sayings of Jesus paraphrase the sayings of other prophets."

"No man," Einstein replied, "can deny the fact that Jesus existed, nor that his sayings are beautiful. Even if some them have been said before, no one has expressed them so divinely as he."
 dancecard
Joined: 3/19/2006
Msg: 256
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simple question - do you believe in a god?
Posted: 11/13/2008 9:13:39 PM
It appears there is three distinct planes of thought

One; we are mankind with the ~ possiblities of having a spiritial experience

Two; we are spirit having a human experience.

Three; we like Rover , when we are dead ~ we are dead all over.

Dance
 lyingcheat
Joined: 10/1/2008
Msg: 257
simple question - do you believe in a god?
Posted: 11/13/2008 11:21:31 PM

As for Einstein do we know what exactly he meant in the other quote??? Have we read enough books on his thoughts and beliefs or just google what we need to hear????

I don't think it's what 'we' have done, it does appear to be what you have done though.

Einstein was often quoted in this regard, and just as often misquoted. Here is another quote from Einstein.

About God, I cannot accept any concept based on the authority of the Church. As long as I can remember, I have resented mass indoctrination. I do not believe in the fear of life, in the fear of death, in blind faith. I cannot prove to you that there is no personal God, but if I were to speak of him, I would be a liar. I do not believe in the God of theology who rewards good and punishes evil. My God created laws that take care of that. His universe is not ruled by wishful thinking, but by immutable laws.

Certainly he mentions 'God' at the beginning of the quote, but as you say, do we really know what he meant by 'God'?
It seems to me that he is suggesting his 'God' is Nature and the immutable Laws of Physics.
Yet this quote is often used to suggest that Einstein, who was a (non-practising) Jew, believed in the christian 'God'.
Apparently this misinterpretation annoyed him sufficiently for him to attempt clarification. Einstein again...

It was of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal god and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it.
I am a deeply religious non believer. This is a somewhat new kind of religion.
I have never imputed to nature a purpose or goal, or anything that could be understood as anthropomorphic. What I see in nature is a magnificent structure that we can comprehend only very imperfectly, and that must fill a thinking person with a feeling of humility. This is a genuinely religious feeling that has nothing to do with mysticism.
The idea of a personal god is quite alien to me and seems even naive.

As I said, 'we' aren't quoting selectively. You are.

There is a reference earlier in the thread to the central problem in any debate between a believer and a rational person.
The reference is to a debate between the British philosopher, Bertrand Russell, and Fr Frederick Copleston, a Jesuit priest, concerning the non-existence of God.
(http://evans-experientialism.freewebspace.com/copleston.htm)

These two learned scholars were each using different language constructs, and different standards of logic, to understand the meaning of 'God'. Which is bad enough, but even worse was that they couldn't agree, in any practical way, to definitions (of the words each was using to present their argument).
The debate therefore, rather unfortunately, was not conclusive.

Your misunderstanding of basic terms, in this thread, illustrates the same process.
For instance, the only person talking in competitive terms is you, eg arm wrestling, and the introduction of a 'right or wrong' paradigm.
In response, I expressed my opinion that your attitude seemed adversarial, which is a perfectly reasonable conclusion given your use of adversarial terms.
You ignore what I'm saying though, and instead accuse me of 'belittling' you simply because I expressed my opinion.

I really don't want to descend to the level of name-calling and would rather avoid a debating 'contest' that concludes when someone 'wins'.
So, with that in mind, it becomes clear that talking with you on this, and perhaps any, topic is an exercise in futility. Therefore, I'll just agree to disagree.
 lok
Joined: 7/6/2006
Msg: 258
13 page difficult question - do you believe in a god?
Posted: 11/14/2008 12:38:09 AM
God is a little green man who flys around in a spaceship laughing at man and his "accomplishments"
 Goddess of dreams
Joined: 5/12/2007
Msg: 259
13 page difficult question - do you believe in a god?
Posted: 11/14/2008 1:41:55 AM
It seems to me that he is suggesting his 'God' is Nature and the immutable Laws of Physics.


Thank you.
Therefore according to this quote he believed in a God. Nature and physics.
 Faux Pa
Joined: 12/20/2007
Msg: 260
13 page difficult question - do you believe in a god?
Posted: 11/14/2008 4:59:13 AM

Some people get their strength in the name of God, why take their strength away and push them towards emptiness.

For some that may be true . . I guess . . I suppose . . maybe . .
I'd also suggest that's a rather narrow view of 'belief'.
For instance, I don't have that 'belief' and yet don't lack any perceivable strength. All the believers I've ever known don't have any extra strength, either. The notion that to 'not believe' sees one destined for emptiness appears silly doesn't it. Why is it that folks can't take responsibility for their own strength instead of relying for it, on God?
Would God actually look to encourage this idea, and if so, what would be the purpose? . . support? . . reliance? . . religious enslavement?
The 'taking of strength' from God thang sounds strikingly like a man made idea to me.

Anyway, I don't think the debate so far has considered destroying temples or the like but if need be, I reckon I could assemble a couple of decent arguments . . but we'd be straying from the topic.


You see It was because of Ugses that we are here today sitting in our warm home having our lights on and using our internet.

Well, certainly . . but my point was that in all the time since Ug sat on that comfy rock, we've made zero progress with all this.
Or, to put it another way, I wouldn't be surprised if we could link mans original dawning knowledge and ponderings of his own mortality to the onset of God as a concept.

But this belief thing is rather nebulous in so many ways but I always liked the goldfish analogy:
There's two goldfish in a bowl. One goldfish turns to the other and asks 'Does God really exist?'
The second goldfish replies . . 'Of course God exists! . . who else do you think changes the water!'


But wait . . there's more . .

It may be that our role on this planet is not to worship God, but to create him.
-- Arthur C. Clarke

Is man one of God's blunders or is God one of man's blunders?
-- Friedrich Nietzsche

To surrender to ignorance and call it God has always been premature, and it remains premature today.
-- Issac Asimov


See . . now there's three brainy guys who've thought about this stuff.
 still dreaming59
Joined: 9/24/2008
Msg: 261
13 page difficult question - do you believe in a god?
Posted: 11/14/2008 6:55:09 AM
Please help me out here, I understand the definition of the word "faith" as defined in lets say the Concise Oxford Dictionary...but I'm having trouble understanding the psychological or emotional benefits in the belief of a non tangible higher power, other than to appease my conscience.

I can rationalise the advantage of "faith" in ones own ability or even faith in mankind
(to a lesser extent) but for me the unshakable belief in an unproven god somehow seems to undermine or trivialise my own capabilities.
Doesn't the idea that a true believer can commit heinous crimes against society and still get an all expenses paid free ticket to nirvana make you pause to reflect somewhat.

The above statement was not made to belittle anyone's personal beliefs but more an attempt to be educated in something i obviously fail to understand.
 dancecard
Joined: 3/19/2006
Msg: 262
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13 page difficult question - do you believe in a god?
Posted: 11/14/2008 2:46:45 PM
It depends on what the label "God" means to you.

to some , it a white dude with a long white beard setting on a white cloud looking down on everyone.

This is the most simplist understanding of God ~ He's all knowing and all seeing and spreads love and compassion.

This is the vision many churches attempt to sell.

I see it very different.

Dance
 Tahmara
Joined: 8/28/2007
Msg: 263
simple question - do you believe in a god?
Posted: 11/23/2008 7:10:06 AM
Yes.

I don't expect to understand all God's ways ... If I did, God would have to be less than me and would subsequently, not be God ... do you get what I am getting at?

BTW the Bible does not say God is a man ... and the Hebrew for Spirit is a feminine word ... 'ruauch' (just google ruauch). What is said is that God created humans in God's image ... ok creation in 6 calendar days seems a little bizare ... but the translation, again is not helpful ... a"day" really means a "period of time" and as such doesn't veto evolution. The masculine image comes from the patriarchal society of the day and the fact that there is not a neutral gender word. There are also images in the scriptures of God being feminine ... but I've probably written too much as it is.

Back to the question ... Yes, I believe in God ... and I experience his presence continually.
 dancecard
Joined: 3/19/2006
Msg: 264
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simple question - do you believe in a god?
Posted: 11/23/2008 7:41:05 AM
quote] Back to the question ... Yes, I believe in God ... and I experience his presence continually.

me too! ~ good post ~ the only thing that explains what I see and understand ~ is that to be created in the "image" of God ~ is not one of human kind ~ but one of spirit.

~ So in that vein of understanding ~~ that make us "spirit" ~ having a human experience. ~ when we think of ourselfs in that light ~ it opens doors ~ doors once closed ~ and you enter a new room , ~ a room of better understanding of "who" you really are ~ and what was once imposssible is now more probable.

~ Scientest in Japan recently have taken matter from an asteroid and duplicated a asteroid strike. ~ the end results? a new substance was formed ~ an enzyme , the building block of life was created from an event ! ~~ what great news, a real eye opener!

This discovery only gives us a glimce of how, ~ and in the true scheme of things ~ matters little. ~ We know it had to happened someway ~

Life force is at work everyday ~~ all around you, as it manifest itself into the phyicial plane for you to see and have and hold and touch, taste and smell.

Random acts of kindness ~ we are showered with every minute of every day ~ ~ for the true nature of the Universe is not "Human Friendly" We exist in a delicate balance.

Dance
 Kissthisfrog !
Joined: 1/21/2007
Msg: 265
simple question - do you believe in a god?
Posted: 11/23/2008 2:11:09 PM


I think the question should be a#se about..., I think the question should be.....,
'does God believe in today's man/woman?'

my answer to that would be a 'no'.

........, but I also think it's likely true believers could 'not ever' answer that question in the negative.
 dancecard
Joined: 3/19/2006
Msg: 266
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simple question - do you believe in a god?
Posted: 11/23/2008 2:31:48 PM
God "is" ~ there is no believing of man to it. ~

However,

Man is not required to believe is God in that, it only changes your view and your life.

that you choice to not believe ~ only makes you feel that a part of you is missing but does in "no"way deprive you of entitlement ~ it only make it harder to get them to you, slower to receive the blessing, for you fight like a drowning person that someone is attempting to rescue.

Contrary to the beliefs ~ that you are some how cast into hellfire and damnination. This is reglious dogma at work and responsible for misconception and sources of much question and doubt.

Dance
 daddy-day-care
Joined: 6/12/2008
Msg: 267
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simple question - do you believe in a god?
Posted: 11/23/2008 11:56:06 PM

simple question - do you believe in a god?


simple answer - yes!!


more complicated answer - yes!!


oh - you want more ,,,, ok I believe in a christian god, and of no domination, but the god I have leant from, through the bible, I am weary of different publications of this book and choose the king james to study or new king james for easyier reading.
I have read it many times!!

I stand fast to believing in my god I will be either wrong or right and will not know untill the day I die. But I figure it better to be right or wrong than sit on the fence and have no chance.


I do not judge others for there believe nor push mine, in saying that I do like to study it and talk to those who are open in there views as long as it doesn't turn into who's wrong or right.................. at that point I walk and say please agree to disagree..........

does that answer your simple question..
 smoranean
Joined: 11/18/2008
Msg: 268
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simple question - do you believe in a god?
Posted: 11/24/2008 10:07:05 PM


1. do you believe in a god?
2. any god?

3. and why?


1. Yes.

2. No.

3. Because I like the weather in Heaven.

 ProcessOfElimination
Joined: 11/3/2008
Msg: 269
simple question - do you believe in a god?
Posted: 11/26/2008 4:50:47 AM
Nope.

Religion is simply a crutch, like alcohol or gambling or sex addiction. It offers a short term escape to those that need a little escapism. Whatever works for you, I'm not here to judge.

I never had my son baptised to any faith - he can make up his own mind when he's old enough. I don't care what he chooses to believe or follow, so long as he does with both eyes open and does so for the right reasons, not because he's been brow beaten with what amounts to threats of spending eternity in a fiery place, by some intangible father figure shaking his finger at him from thousands of years ago.

Just my 2c worth!!
 Kissthisfrog !
Joined: 1/21/2007
Msg: 270
simple question - do you believe in a god?
Posted: 11/26/2008 10:20:52 PM
No ....., show me the evidence and I will consider it..., that's evidence..., OK ?
 smoranean
Joined: 11/18/2008
Msg: 271
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simple question - do you believe in a god?
Posted: 11/26/2008 10:51:33 PM

No ....., show me the evidence and I will consider it..., that's evidence..., OK ?


Give it time mate. You'll have your evidence eventually. Don't ask ahead of time.

 Kissthisfrog !
Joined: 1/21/2007
Msg: 272
simple question - do you believe in a god?
Posted: 11/26/2008 11:05:21 PM
Well now I just want evidence...., that there will be evidence in time.....
 smoranean
Joined: 11/18/2008
Msg: 273
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simple question - do you believe in a god?
Posted: 11/26/2008 11:29:43 PM

Well now I just want evidence...., that there will be evidence in time...


With respect sir, if you consider the outcome of having your evidence right now, sans faith, then I am sure that you will understand that all hell would break loose in such an event.

Some ignorant scientists constantly promote faith in the religion of atheism because they do not understand the non-falisifable, of which God is.

Do not feel obliged to suddenly take on some faith in anything that you don't feel comfortable with because as you go through life, there is a good chance that different events will come your way to help you find your own faith without the need of outside persuasion, but one thing you should realise as very very ignorant, is to ask for evidence of God.

There is one thing that is best avoided. Don't ask for evidence of what is non-falsifiable by design.

Apart from that, enjoy! It's a great planet so why not make the most of it while it lasts!

 Kissthisfrog !
Joined: 1/21/2007
Msg: 274
simple question - do you believe in a god?
Posted: 11/27/2008 3:55:23 AM
Relax grasshopper..., just show me the evidence.
 ~Pedro Sanchez~
Joined: 11/23/2006
Msg: 275
simple question - do you believe in a god?
Posted: 11/27/2008 4:17:03 AM
Just as christianity/islam/judaism is often accused of being a crutch, atheism/agnosticism/any ism is quite often the same....cliche forthcoming.....it takes the same amount if not more faith to be a seriously practising atheist/agnostic/any ist.

I'm just worried about this minor issue they call hell....the thought of some imp tugging at my sinful parts...I would like to be able to say the correct password at the pearly gates...."code word?", "fluffy duck." Wrong!

Its hard man (enter 70's slap bass acid jazz)....but since I was born and raised catholic, surrounded by a bevy of nuns and taught english by a non-albino Jesuit, I might as well err on the side of the existence of a higher being with enough ability to perform highly complex mathematical equations to create grass and stop the earth shifting a couple of metres off its axis, or the moon bounce around randomly, occasionally traversing on a tic-tac-toe pattern just to f*ck me up.

Until there's evidence to the contrary (I mean there is no evidence that there is no God either), I remain a good catholic boy with no welt/strop/paddle marks on my ass.

Oh, what can it mean...to a daydream believer and a homecoming queen.
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