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Show ALL Forums  > Australia  > simple question - do you believe in a god?      Home login  
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 daddy-day-care
Joined: 6/12/2008
Msg: 301
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simple question - do you believe in a god?Page 13 of 26    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26)
all in the name of god
over and out!!!!!!!!!!!
patiently waiting for a political thread now!!!!!!!!!!!
pfffffffffffffffT
 Naamah
Joined: 11/1/2008
Msg: 302
simple question - do you believe in a god?
Posted: 12/1/2008 6:33:49 AM

Just go back and edit all the rubbish out and type NO instead then. That's the answer you're having so much trouble trying to get across.

Q. Do you believe in a god?
A. NO.

Easy if you try real hard isn't it?


That's pretty patronising wording. And may I ask why you don't just take your own advice and type "Yes" and stop posting?

Is it because this is a topic of interest to you and you wish to engage in discussion about it? Is it because you wish to further represent, explain, illustrate, and clarify your opinion? Of course...and so do the atheists. Debate all you want...go your hardest, mock atheism mercilessly if you want to, that's allowed...but why try to silence the opinions of others by instructing them to reduce their post to one word? If you are of the opinion that...
this same old debate continues so pointlessly
...then by all means bow out...but I don't believe your suggestions that others should bow out are valid.


It is your choice to not believe in a god or God, but it is not your right to try to inflict your own lack of understanding on others.
Actually, on a forum, I believe we are all entitled to inflict on the world whatever crazy opinion we care to hold ...as long as it's an opinion about the topic and not about other posters. This wording...
those who DO understand and possess the cognitive requirements that you lack.
... is clearly casting aspersions against a particular poster's intelligence as if you have exclusive ownership of truth rather than countering the notion of atheism.


there is no need to have a reason not to believe in anything.

That whole paragraph about snow in Perth seems to lead to your ultimate preferred conclusion... that non-believers should just post "nuh" and bugger off, while the believers should fill the thread with uninterupted sermons because you think belief is more interesting than non-belief. The weather in Perth was just a snow screen.

I personally don't find belief in god to be a more interesting or more considered conclusion than non-belief in god. In my own experience, the non-believers I meet often seem to be those who have explored and investigated and applied a lot of thought to both viewpoints before reaching their own conclusion...which is a very proactive way to approach it, and their stories are often interesting to read/hear. In contrast, I've met an awful lot of believers who just fell into it reactively, and went with the flow, or who do it for social reasons, or because it seemed easier, or so as not to disappoint their Mum, or who are hedging their bets just in case, etc....which, I've gotta say, is not particularly riveting stuff.

To my way of thinking, your comment that there is no need to have a reason not to believe in anything, would be far more accurately expressed as " for many people there is no need to have a reason to believe in something".


The first step that you must take from here is to lose your SMD (Scientific Mind Disorder).

So is religion a cure for a scientific mind? If so, that strikes me as being a clear cut case of the cure being far worse than the disease.
 smoranean
Joined: 11/18/2008
Msg: 303
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History
simple question - do you believe in a god?
Posted: 12/1/2008 2:42:54 PM

Science doesn't blind - it is our entire field of vision. To the same degree, religion is our denial.


Rather a contradictory statement that. Your entire field of vision is your limitation that would prevent you understanding the reasons why God must remain non-falsifiable and thus beyond the reach of scientists.

To the other respondent who questioned why I didn't just reply YES to the thread question, please refer to post #329 on p. 14 before mis-revising past history:



1. Yes.

2. No.

3. Because I like the weather in Heaven.


Since then, I've continued reading this thread and rather than just answering the OPs question without malice, so many of these arrogant athiests see this as an opportunity to go evangelistically postal on the other respondents, so that's why I try to do my best to explain to them how mistaken they are.

If the athiests would just stfu and answer as requested, rather than getting all high and mighty about what they claim not to understand to begin with, then that would be sweet, but trying to aggravate more learned people with such twaddle is going to bring about responses mainly in the interests of consoling those who maybe offended. As we all learned in science classes, for every action there is a reaction.

Argue all you like about how you don't see the truth ergo you don't believe it, because it's actually quite a laugh to have a rant about it, but don't ask for proof of God because that is an extremely Satanic thing to do.

If you don't believe in God, that's fine. If you do believe in God, that's fine with sugar on top.

I'm not interested in trying to tell you why you should believe in God, just as you should NOT be concerned with trying to tell others that they shouldn't. Just say YES or NO as the title of the thread even mentioned the simple adjective. Still, that's less entertaining so go ahead and blaspheme away for it keeps the rest of us from getting bored. Just don't ask for PROOF. It's a very bad and stupid thing to do.

 still dreaming59
Joined: 9/24/2008
Msg: 304
simple question - do you believe in a god?
Posted: 12/1/2008 5:28:50 PM
I do respect other peoples rights to believe in ANYTHING !!!
Do i believe in god...No
Would i believe in god if I had unmitigated proof...Yes



I'm not interested in trying to tell you why you should believe in God, just as you should NOT be concerned with trying to tell others that they shouldn't. Just say YES or NO as the title of the thread even mentioned the simple adjective. Still, that's less entertaining so go ahead and blaspheme away for it keeps the rest of us from getting bored. Just don't ask for PROOF. It's a very bad and stupid thing to do.


I am not here calling you Bad or Stupid for what i see as unproven faith.
But i would hope for the same respect in return.!
 lyingcheat
Joined: 10/1/2008
Msg: 305
simple question - do you believe in a god?
Posted: 12/1/2008 8:43:58 PM
Rather than quote sections of your argument, and then demolish them... because I've already done that a couple of times.
I've just paraphrased your entire post. This isn't done to mock you in any way, though that seems somewhat unavoidable, but rather to illustrate how adept you are at digging holes and then falling into them.
Take note, I've only reversed a couple of phrases (for consistency) and substituted maybe 10 or 15 words to achieve a complete reversal of your argument.

Since then, I've continued reading this thread and rather than just answering the OPs question without malice, one of these arrogantly condescending christians sees this as an opportunity to go evangelistically postal on the other respondents, so that's why I try to do my best to explain to him how mistaken he is.

If the christian would just stfu and answer as the OP suggested, rather than getting all high and mighty about what he falsely claims to understand, then that would be sweet, but trying to aggravate more learned people with such twaddle is going to bring about responses mainly in the interests of amusing those who may have a sense of humour. As we all learned in science classes, for every action there is a reaction.

Argue all you like about how you can't see the truth, ergo you don't believe it, because it's actually quite a laugh to have a rant about it, but don't suggest there's any proof of anything called God or Satan because that is an extremely naive thing to do.

If you don't believe in God, that's fine. If you do believe in God, that's fine with fairy dust on top.

I'm not interested in trying to tell you why you should'nt believe in God, just as you should NOT be concerned with trying to tell others that they should. Just say YES or NO as the title of the thread even mentioned the simple adjective. Still, that's less entertaining so go ahead and crusade away for it keeps the rest of us from getting bored. Just don't suggest there's any PROOF. It's a very bad and stupid thing to do.


Do you see the holes?

Best stick to just reading the bible hey? Because you aren't very good at spouting it.
 Hawaiianluau
Joined: 11/13/2008
Msg: 306
simple question - do you believe in a god?
Posted: 12/1/2008 11:54:05 PM

Would i believe in god if I had unmitigated proof...

Caves beach has risen from the dead.
What more do you need ?
 smoranean
Joined: 11/18/2008
Msg: 307
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History
simple question - do you believe in a god?
Posted: 12/2/2008 1:40:54 AM

Rather than quote sections of your argument, and then demolish them... because I've already done that a couple of times.
I've just paraphrased your entire post. This isn't done to mock you in any way, though that seems somewhat unavoidable, but rather to illustrate how adept you are at digging holes and then falling into them.
Take note, I've only reversed a couple of phrases (for consistency) and substituted maybe 10 or 15 words to achieve a complete reversal of your argument.

Since then, I've continued reading this thread and rather than just answering the OPs question without malice, one of these arrogantly condescending christians sees this as an opportunity to go evangelistically postal on the other respondents, so that's why I try to do my best to explain to him how mistaken he is.

If the christian would just stfu and answer as the OP suggested, rather than getting all high and mighty about what he falsely claims to understand, then that would be sweet, but trying to aggravate more learned people with such twaddle is going to bring about responses mainly in the interests of amusing those who may have a sense of humour. As we all learned in science classes, for every action there is a reaction.


I understand what you are waffling on about, but technically some less forunate types might call it libel or somesuch.

I'd go on to read further, but I've had these same conversations so many times by now that I can't really be bothered. Good luck with your salvation, Brother Whatever.

 Naamah
Joined: 11/1/2008
Msg: 308
simple question - do you believe in a god?
Posted: 12/2/2008 1:48:47 AM

Caves beach has risen from the dead.
What more do you need ?
Hmmm. Now I'll have to retract everything I've said about not having seen god. Good to see you back Caves.




so many of these arrogant athiests see this as an opportunity to go evangelistically postal on the other respondents, so that's why I try to do my best to explain to them how mistaken they are.

I understand that to you your arguments seem convincing. To atheists, your arguments appear as convincing and credible as someone trying to convince other people that they know for a fact that a purple duck who lives in their street is doing so well on the stockmarket that she recently purchased a Bentley. ...So many holes in the story it's hard to know where to start.




Just say YES or NO as the title of the thread even mentioned the simple adjective.
The site doesn't allow messages that short to be posted. And it would be a really boring thread if every post was yes, no, the end. And people generally like to explain their yes/no answer on such a complex topic, which is kinda the point of a dicsussion forum. In fact, we discussed this very issue back on the first few pages of the thread...as to why it couldn't possibly be that simple. Perhaps read those early pages before
mis-revising past history
.




Just don't ask for PROOF. It's a very bad and stupid thing to do.

This statement, for me, sums up what I find so sad, and so scary, about religion and its followers. Don't ask, just follow. Don't think, let us do it for you. In fact, let's call it 'bad' to think for yourself so there is less chance of you noticing that we've just sold you the most unlikely truth ever (not counting the storyline of the movie, Pretty Woman).

My shearer is actually a church minister, and shearing time is his once a year shot at trying to convert me and save my immortal soul. I only have a flock of three, so he doesn’t get much sermon time. The thing that stuns me about our annual conversion attempt is his amazing determination to believe or dismiss certain things simply based on what suits his preferred reality.

One year he told me that it was only the non-christian religions that have been responsible for any wars in more recent times. Apparently he’d blocked all thought of Ireland from his mind because it somehow didn’t fit with what he prefers to believe about christianity. One year he told me that more and more people were turning to religion, despite the census clearly showing otherwise. This year he told me Richard Dawkins didn’t know what he was talking about, but then admitted to not having read any of his books. And overall, these sort of examples typify what has been my personal experience with those who believe in god/a religion…that they hold a belief that they often cannot pinpoint the origins of, and then look only to justify it, whilst putting their fingers in their ears and saying lalalala to anything remotely resembling facts to the contrary, or independent thought. On the other hand, non-believers I have met throughout my life have predominantly been folk who were initially open to either viewpoint, gathered knowledge of both sides, and went with what they saw as the more credible evidence.

I think most non-believers would still be happy to be proved wrong. But proved wrong...not browbeaten into simply not thinking anymore. Personally I don’t think the same can be said of those who believe in god.
 onthegrapevine
Joined: 10/27/2008
Msg: 309
simple question - do you believe in a god?
Posted: 12/2/2008 2:19:47 AM
Simple answer for me.....Of course i do....
 still dreaming59
Joined: 9/24/2008
Msg: 310
simple question - do you believe in a god?
Posted: 12/2/2008 2:47:25 AM
Well I'm going with the purple duck and the Bentley, you may laugh now and think I'm Quakers, but it could be Rene Rivkin reincarnated.
On a serious note believers and non believers...Peace !
 smoranean
Joined: 11/18/2008
Msg: 311
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simple question - do you believe in a god?
Posted: 12/2/2008 2:52:28 AM

Don't ask, just follow. Don't think, let us do it for you.


That seems to be atheism's greatest threat, but there'll be another thalydamide before long, so there's no need to cast the pearls into the pig-pen just yet.

I hope this might help you further your progress if I also remind you that I have refrained from presenting my argument throughout this simple thread, but you and your cohorts seem to be quite well-occupied rumaging through what you have been given already, so what point would there be in such endevours? Mirth? HA!

It's okay if you still don't get it. None of us understood at birth, so don't give up hope and you'll make it there before you know it.

 Naamah
Joined: 11/1/2008
Msg: 312
simple question - do you believe in a god?
Posted: 12/2/2008 3:38:18 AM

Well I'm going with the purple duck and the Bentley.
Ahh... a new convert. Please immediately indoctrinate your children and put money in the donation tin. I've come up with a plan based on other successful businesses that sell a god to the people, and I figure we can be global within a few years. Have faith brother.




Don't ask, just follow. Don't think, let us do it for you.

That seems to be atheism's greatest threat

I honestly think that being told not to think is a threat to all humanity, not just atheists. As we evolved, so did our brain, and deciding not to use it to question and seek information (as per your earlier suggestion) is always going to be a backwards step.


so that's why I try to do my best to explain to them how mistaken they are
later contradicted by
I have refrained from presenting my argument throughout this simple thread

Straight from the horse's mouth, as they say, and I totally agree. You haven't presented anything that might constitute any sort of argument.



so don't give up hope and you'll make it there before you know it

Cheers for that. Maybe I could get more sheep...give the minister/shearer more attempted conversion time with me every year...so he can tell me about his god. But with the evidence available I reckon there's more chance of me getting him to see the light.
 julianx
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 313
simple question - do you believe in a god?
Posted: 12/2/2008 4:02:53 AM
Do I believe in god?…no
I do believe in a form of collective consciousness, something that gives us an affinity with one another.
I also believe in my self , my ego, my spirit and my Id.

I believe that god is an externalization of ones own spirit, for those who have trouble believing in something that isn’t tangible, or describable, like spirit or inner strength. It’s easier to believe in something that you can see, so they externalize it and then attempt to give it form by creating rules for it, and symbols and images to represent it…like the old guy with the beard or that statue with an elephant’s head and all the arms. So I believe that those that believe actually have more trouble believing than those of us that don’t believe.

I believe in heaven…though not as a place we go after death (we go where ever we're put when we're dead), but as a state of mind, that we create ourselves.
I believe in hell too, in much the same way.

I believe in nirvana as well, it’s a state of euphoria that can be reached through meditation or chanting…there’s quite a similarity between Hare Krishna chants and the trance music played at raves, both help clear your mind of intellectual thought and release extra endorphins… but if your lazy, just drop an ‘E’

And I believe what I believe in
Yes I believe in
I believe in
I believe in the web of fate
And I believe that some are gonna hate
What I believe in
So I'll be leavin'

(Steve Diggle)
 Naamah
Joined: 11/1/2008
Msg: 314
simple question - do you believe in a god?
Posted: 12/2/2008 4:47:09 AM

I believe that god is an externalization of ones own spirit, for those who have trouble believing in something that isn’t tangible, or describable, like spirit or inner strength. It’s easier to believe in something that you can see, so they externalize it and then attempt to give it form by creating rules for it, and symbols and images to represent it…like the old guy with the beard or that statue with an elephant’s head and all the arms. So I believe that those that believe actually have more trouble believing than those of us that don’t believe.

Wow. That explanation perfectly captures the essence of things for me. So well said, Julianx.
 Faux Pa
Joined: 12/20/2007
Msg: 315
simple question - do you believe in a god?
Posted: 12/2/2008 7:01:47 AM

And I ask why? Why do you believe in a deity? Why do you believe in a heaven and a hell? What evidence have you ever had to their existence that you have seen with your own eyes? And how was it so infallible that you Christianity was proven to you and not any of the other four thousand, two hundred creeds?

Actually, I'd take it a bit further.
If this deity, heaven and hell did actually exist and were perfectly visible and provable, would mankind put up with all the wars, intolerance, injustice, discrimination and general divisiveness this notion has supported over the centuries. Hmmm . . I tend to think we might elect a new God!


If the athiests would just stfu and answer as requested, rather than getting all high and mighty about what they claim not to understand to begin with, then that would be sweet, but trying to aggravate more learned people with such twaddle is going to bring about responses mainly in the interests of consoling those who maybe offended. As we all learned in science classes, for every action there is a reaction

Lordy, lordy . . what a cute troll . . well written, but a troll none the less.

simple question - do you believe in a god?

Nope, it isn't all that simple.
For athiests like me it has to be established that God actually exists first . . of course!
A believer doesn't seem to need that intermediate step . . they simply believe.
So, for an apparent simple question, we are already heading down two different paths.

What about this . . .
For athiests that need (require) a tangible God, we could discuss the merits of bacon & eggs as we might god and religion. They both taste good on their own, but together, there's a synergy that can't be ignored . . the euphoria and the whole experience, if you like.
Alternatively, for the believers, we could discuss the merits of love & understanding. While they are again different things, the combination might also be described as euphoric.

So the problem for both athiests and believers when taking up the question posed is that we tend to try and compare bacon with love . . or compare eggs and understanding.
Someone . . please put the kettle on. This might take a while.

But on another note for the 'believers', and given that the vast majority either say nothing except to provide the simple requested answer, or go on ad-infinitum while, in my opinion, still saying nothing . . may I point to a couple of posts by Shell225 on page 13, Msg. #320 and 322 . . particularly 322.
While I'm still a rabid unwashed heathen, there's some very good words surrounding spirituality and particularly the 'egoic self'.
I was then going to say something like . . "Onya Shell . . the quiet achiever" but I suspect even she wouldn't go along with the 'quiet' bit.


OK . . time for a story . . a true one.
I was up in Brisbane last year for my sister-in-laws funeral. Yes, a sad occasion of course as she was not old and doddery and had endured plenty of ongoing illness throughout her shortish life. Anyway, after the funeral we returned to my brothers house for the obligatory refreshments etc . . as ya do. She (the sister-in-law) was a religious Catholic gal and the priest who presided over the funeral was their usual family priest. He's actually one of those that takes a serious interest in the real life involvement with his parishioners and had spent many hours at her bedside during her final weeks in hospital. I'd met him before at various weddings of their kids etc. and always considered him an all round good guy.
Anyway, we were standing outside, beer in hand, chatting about stuff in general and bear in mind that's always a bit difficult for me, 'cos we have so little in common. The conversation centred on the sister-in-law, naturally, and he said to me in a somewhat perplexed and serious tone . . and I'll have to paraphrase, here . .
"You know, over all these years I've performed many services . . I like the marriages best because it's a joyous occasion and everyone is happy, but I'm never comfortable with these funerals . . I stand at the grave site and watch the coffin being lowered into the grave as I say the right words. I look into that hole in the ground and often wonder if there really is anything on the other side."

I'm not looking to strike some poignant example one way or the other with this story, but with those words, this guy floored me and I felt that if anything, we had even less in common than I first thought. Strange.

P.S. Heya Caves . . good to see you back.
 SomethingforKate
Joined: 9/10/2008
Msg: 316
simple question - do you believe in a god?
Posted: 12/2/2008 3:43:13 PM
I believe in God when I am in trouble. Typical Catholic.
 GreyNomad43
Joined: 11/19/2007
Msg: 317
simple question - do you believe in a god?
Posted: 12/2/2008 4:59:19 PM
Yes I believe there's someone called God.
Every time I end up In bed with a Female,
his name gets called out sometime through
the night. Oh God!....Oh my God!...Oh Oh Oh GOD!
calls along those lines. So he must be true.
< He made me do It.
 deepsea66
Joined: 5/11/2008
Msg: 318
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History
simple question - do you believe in a god?
Posted: 12/2/2008 11:27:57 PM
Yes, but I don't believe in man made religions.

Cheers, deepy
 Spinswimmer
Joined: 11/18/2008
Msg: 319
simple question - do you believe in a god?
Posted: 12/5/2008 4:12:35 AM
So many things can't be seen...can't see truth, can't see air, can't see brain waves, can't see motives etc etc yet all these things exist. It is difficult to understand why everything happens the way it does. Generally the question we ask is 'Why?'
Maybe the question we should be asking is 'Why not?' We say that so and so is a good person and doesn't deserve to be suffering whatever. It doesn't seem to matter. Look at Jesus. He was as good as we get...he could forgive the people who were crucifying him and yet there he was being crucified. Maybe we need to learn not to take the difficult things personally. We all suffer...but we all love and laugh and are glad to be alive at least some of the time. Life is always potentially worthwhile...that's why we value it.
 Hawaiianluau
Joined: 11/13/2008
Msg: 320
simple question - do you believe in a god?
Posted: 12/5/2008 10:35:12 AM

We say that so and so is a good person and doesn't deserve to be suffering whatever.

Could be a blessing.
Could be He doesn't want you to get too comfortable in this life.
 Matt34Fair
Joined: 11/27/2008
Msg: 321
simple question - do you believe in a god?
Posted: 12/30/2008 10:45:10 PM
I have always felt believing in God is more about a question of us believing whether or not there is moral reason for us being here. I do believe in Christian morals before anything. i always wondered in my life what makes the most sense to me more than anything. The answer I came to was how Jesus gave up potential power to be mortal. That to me is the greatest inspiration I have ever known. I can understand a God showing us the morality of that.
 SAIUN
Joined: 5/23/2007
Msg: 322
simple question - do you believe in a god?
Posted: 12/31/2008 12:19:08 AM
Funny that people say that the universe "can't be an accident" with such conviction. I'd like to know what makes people so sure that they somehow KNOW that there MUST be a divine creator.

You could flip a coin and get it to land on heads 5 times in a row. According to the mathematical probability, that shouldn't have happened. Does that mean God manipulated the results of your coin flips? Or simply that an event, whilst unlikely, happened to transpire?

This leads us towards discussion of the Anthropic Principle, which I fear is beyond the cognitive grasp of people who ask questions like "Who created the Big Bang?"
 Hawaiianluau
Joined: 11/13/2008
Msg: 323
simple question - do you believe in a god?
Posted: 12/31/2008 2:36:39 AM
Personaly It extends far beyond the flip o' the coin.
To me and to me it reveals truth.
Tell me if you asked for something to happen and -------------it did.
Would you try asgain ?
And then for some unexplained reason you asked for something one more time and you got it. What would you think ?
And then as you grew older and learned how to really ask for something that was really out of the realm and then you got it ..... would you really just discount it as coincedence ?
What would you think if you got everything that you ever asked for ?
 Hawaiianluau
Joined: 11/13/2008
Msg: 324
simple question - do you believe in a god?
Posted: 12/31/2008 1:42:44 PM
Actually you are right. I spend way too much time here and thank you for reminding me, not for dates as my profile would surely allude too.
I'm planning on using the internet to make my income this coming year and can't be spending this much time on here.
I do enjoy it though. Especially the Aussie forums.

There is one prayer that wasn't answered this year when my friend from Nowra NSW died of leukemia.
RIP Debbie.

Lastly I'm not and never have deemed myself any sort of preacher.
But it works for me.
 daffie
Joined: 8/1/2007
Msg: 325
simple question - do you believe in a god?
Posted: 12/31/2008 2:10:18 PM
fear and guilt.....

without these two emotions any religion would cease to exist.

religion is emotional blackmail!
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