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Show ALL Forums  > Australia  > Pro Life or Pro choice?      Home login  
 Sierra Leonne
Joined: 9/10/2007
Msg: 26
Pro Life or Pro choice?Page 2 of 5    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5)
[I am being responsible for the choice I made..... for every choice whether right or wrong there are consequences]
I agree with you totally Poss & I'm glad you are finding ways to grieve & accept. If only we could live in a perfect world where the sorrows of the world didn't exist. Life just isn't that simple at this point & we all just have to do the best we can & be willing to support those around us as they try to do the same
Joined: 1/25/2007
Msg: 27
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Pro Life or Pro choice?
Posted: 10/14/2007 1:30:18 AM
jump all over me as usual
that is how I feel for myself you are free to make your own decisions about your life
I was given the choice a few times due to high risk pregnancy blah blah
I chose the decision that was RIGHT for me
 Sierra Leonne
Joined: 9/10/2007
Msg: 28
Pro Life or Pro choice?
Posted: 10/14/2007 3:17:57 AM
That's all any of us can do jannick, be true to yourself & be honest with others about how you feel. I guess it just came across a little harshly on such a painful issue. It sounds like you too have had difficult choices to make & have come through them a stronger woman.
Joined: 9/17/2007
Msg: 29
Pro Life or Pro choice?
Posted: 10/14/2007 3:21:43 AM

that is how I feel for myself you are free to make your own decisions about your life

That's fine, I didnt say your opinion was wrong, but didn't you see Poss' posts about what a hard time she has had dealing with what happened and the choice she made?
I think your wording could have been a little bit more subtle, that's all.
It's a very touchy subject.
Joined: 9/23/2007
Msg: 30
Pro Life or Pro choice?
Posted: 10/14/2007 6:48:02 PM
Pro choice... there are too many different situations out there to judge what is right and wrong
Joined: 9/12/2007
Msg: 31
Pro Life or Pro choice?
Posted: 10/14/2007 7:37:04 PM
i believe it has to be a womans choice, i would go for adoption myself, but even my own daughter would make abortion her choice over adoption, every one is different
i have never seen pro lifers offering help with raising the child they want to save.
i have never seen pro lifers hounding the father either,all you ever see from them is violence and intimadation
let it be the womans choice it is her body
Joined: 7/27/2008
Msg: 32
Pro Life or Pro choice?
Posted: 10/6/2008 11:50:52 AM
as far as rape- pro choice

as far as having it through sex with a loved one- pro life, you can't take back your mistakes

bombing clinics WTF!!!

used as a form of birth control, just plan ****ed up

I am pro life on all but one, if it was through rape or forced sex, I am pro choice, if it was her choice to have sex but not a baby, she shouldn't be allowed to change the consequence to suit her, thats like letting a child decide their punishment.
 Jan Sobieski
Joined: 7/4/2008
Msg: 33
view profile
Pro Life or Pro choice?
Posted: 10/6/2008 12:23:01 PM
Of course this is a matter of choice. It is the individuals body after all, and one might take matters into their own hands, with terrible consequenses.
If we are to promote choice, we must give counseling to the person invovled, and ensure that they are able to make an informed choice as to what is the best course of action.
Joined: 9/22/2008
Msg: 34
Pro Life or Pro choice?
Posted: 10/6/2008 2:37:04 PM
From an analytical perspective, its the woman's choice
From an emotional perspective, its the woman's choice
From a spiritual perspective, its the woman's choice

The human race is in plague proportions.

I'm going to lead with my chin (again) .... the single most important 'job' in the world (with daylight second) is that of a Mother .... the nuturing, compassionate unconditional love IS the key to not only a successful entity, but a proactive member of the community .... our communities are in dissaray ... 'where is the love' ?

Guilt is the number one leverage used by all, with most religions - more intent on building the biggest team - leading the way .... a travesty of manipulation by a group of bigots ....
Joined: 8/26/2008
Msg: 35
Pro Life or Pro choice?
Posted: 10/6/2008 5:48:31 PM
Possib That is a courageous story to share with others, particularly the younger ones, bless you, by sharing we do alleviate ignorance.

I did a human rights thesis on this topic - the Convention on the Rights of the Child advocates for the rights of the unborn child vs the Convention on the Elimination of Discrimination Against Women that advocates for the woman (not her govt) to have control of her bodily functions. Australia is a signator to both.

In looking at all the facts without religious / legal / cultural bias - and one will surprise Msg 11 poster - the rythmn method and early intervention abortion when that fails, is safer than all other forms of effective contraception for the woman. (I can't quite understand why you would advocate for the sterilisation of a woman who has had more than one unplanned pregnancy - if you are morally okay with one).... Morally if you are using other forms of contraception you are also denying life.... so it is a tricky one on all levels.

The absence of legalised abortion does lead to high death rates of women of childbearing age in countries where 'backyard' abortions are rife through religious and or legal, cultural doctrines of taking the choice away from the woman concerned.

My thesis came down on the side of the laws that criminalise the termination of an unwanted pregnancy being removed, and a woman and her health advisors being able to consider the physical, mental and emotional aspects thoroughly.

Possib, as a woman who was faced with a similar choice and took the other path and then held that child in my arms as he died at 28 days old... we cannot know what is for us ahead, let alone in the lifeplan of another soul. Things are as they are, we can only walk in our own shoes, make decisions based on good faith at the time and hope that they continue to fit us comfortably.

Bombing anything is criminal and immoral, and as insane (in my humble opinion) as fighting for peace.

Gutsy move raising this OP, but thank you.
'Ignorance is the bane of society and can only be alleviated by shedding a light on it'
Joined: 8/2/2008
Msg: 36
Pro Life or Pro choice?
Posted: 10/6/2008 6:56:15 PM
Great post littlesmiley

I am most concerned about the meeting that took place between the Victorian State Government reps and 150 doctors and nurses yesterday - held at State Parliarment where discussions and debate ensued regarding that if Victoria passes its latest bill on abortion, that doctors and nurses BY LAW will have to give a woman up to 24 weeks pregnant, a termination, if so requested.............this has caused great concern thru the medical community.

It is one issue to terminate between 6-12 weeks which if a termination is to proceed is the approriate time to do so, but at 24 weeks involves a more complicated and dangerous procedure for the woman but also the debate of whether a foetus is "human" at 6 weeks as opposed to 24 weeks when we already know that the baby is developed and "growing"......I would imagine that for some medical staff the performing of this procedure at 24 weeks would make them question their own ethics regarding the taking of "life" , being forced to obey a law that they may not agree with, and no doubts would bring challenges to their work and relationships with their colleagues. How would we all feel if we had to perform at work a act that repulsed us and was against our moral fibre, yet we were required to undertake this by law ?

For the record, I am Pro - choice.. but I do respect the fact that for many, they are pro life and if they, medical staff are of the pro life camp , then for some, this will be the utlimate challenge to them, if this bill is to be passed.
 Kissthisfrog !
Joined: 1/21/2007
Msg: 37
Pro Life or Pro choice?
Posted: 10/6/2008 6:58:01 PM
Im pro choice..., the biggest and most impacting problem in the world today is overpopulation.....,
and also..., there are way too many unwanted children already in the world..., unfortunately.
Just my opinion....., simplistic as it may seem.
Joined: 8/2/2008
Msg: 38
Pro Life or Pro choice?
Posted: 10/6/2008 7:00:00 PM
Nothing simplistic in that post Sandy my friend, ...sadly so very true...
Joined: 7/12/2008
Msg: 39
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Pro Life or Pro choice?
Posted: 10/6/2008 7:02:16 PM
pro choice

perhaps males/ females need to exercise caution prior to engaging in sexual activities and use condoms - not only does it prevent unwanted pregnancy but also protects against STDs/ STIs...
Joined: 8/26/2008
Msg: 40
Pro Life or Pro choice?
Posted: 10/6/2008 7:16:44 PM
Thanks pookie
I shared a hospital room with a lady having a late termination while I was desperately trying to stave off early labour at 20 weeks. We both clinged to each other and cried throughout it and yes it was very hard on the staff and one of the hardest things I've ever experienced (and that aint talking lightly) just being there and feeling her pain.

Hers was a medical situation where the baby was not going to live and the mum's life in very real danger if she continued with the pregnancy.

Technically though Pookie, do we let a mother die with her baby? god knows sometimes even the mum would say yes to that, it is extremely painful - but as in my thesis it comes down to having the laws that allow us to make decisions based on medical information, not legal/religious/cultural bias - as with the previous topic about the mentally disabled girl's pregnancy.

One would hope that staff would have the opportunity to absent themselves if they couldn't be of assistance to their patient. But in some jobs there are hard things to face all the time... how many people could do yours Pookie?...

in sisterhood to all who have experienced the wonder and joy and pain of life.
Joined: 8/26/2008
Msg: 41
Pro Life or Pro choice?
Posted: 10/6/2008 8:10:19 PM
hmm having blurted out that much personal detail ^^^... that pregnancy (of mine) resulted in one of the most beautiful human beings on the planet being born very much alive and breathing at 28 weeks, and who is now an incredible 23 year old.
Joined: 1/2/2006
Msg: 42
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Pro Life or Pro choice?
Posted: 10/6/2008 10:52:57 PM
i think its a womans choice as its her body that has to endure the process of having a baby... i dont think its an easy choice to make and many ppl are left haunted by the experience of having an abortion.. i think its my business and mine alone.

as for god.. for ppl who use that as an arguement.. i know many sinner christians out there and apparently as long as u repent ur sin and ask for forgiveness god will be ok and if he isnt ok.. well i guess he will have something to say at the pearly gates or the hotter version...
Joined: 2/23/2008
Msg: 43
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Pro Life or Pro choice?
Posted: 10/7/2008 3:18:20 AM
Pro choice all the way..

As a health professional and midwife I have no issue with terminating a pregnancy that has a high risk for the woman or is going to result in profound disability and life long health defects for a child.
Joined: 3/27/2008
Msg: 44
Pro Life or Pro choice?
Posted: 10/7/2008 4:20:13 AM
As a Women of multiple miscarriages I grieve for all those little people lost through medical intervention & human nature - I was told by my Family Dr. & Gyno I would never have children & at 34 gave birth to my miracle - now 14 - I am Pro Life but it' s YOUR choice & one that you will have to live with for the remainder of your life - I also think the other party should be informed of the existence of a new life as it takes two to make one but I believe both parties should be informed except of course for rape - so so sad
Joined: 11/26/2007
Msg: 45
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Pro Life or Pro choice?
Posted: 10/7/2008 6:12:05 PM
Pro choice.
Its also my choice not to argue or discuss the topic with people that refuse to accept that its my oppinion and i realy dont care what thier oppinion is on it either.

I think each person should have thier own choice, and if people want someone elses chest burstling to live so much maybe there should be somewhere they sign up to adopt said critter once it is born... though... im not sure a bomber would pass the adoption agency standards, that being said, why would anyone listen to someone who is willing to be abusive, rude, violent and potentialy dangerouse to those around them about a topic of whats moraly right for a situation they arent dealing with themselves.
Joined: 1/23/2008
Msg: 46
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Pro Life or Pro choice?
Posted: 10/8/2008 4:16:23 AM
IMHO it is a private and personal decision.

What I would choose, what I would decide, is only good for me. I have no right to place my basis for my choice on any other human being.

It is very very easy for people to stand on the sidelines of anothers life and make judgements. Im guilty of it, everyone is guilty of it. We've all done it at sometime or other and it doesn't make us right.

In my heart of hearts I do not believe that anyone makes these choices without pain.
Joined: 9/21/2008
Msg: 47
Pro Life or Pro choice?
Posted: 10/8/2008 5:40:51 AM
pro choice.
It depends on the person who is carrying the child, to make that decision
not some strangers.
Joined: 7/10/2008
Msg: 48
Pro Life or Pro choice?
Posted: 10/8/2008 6:20:26 AM
I think the matter should be left to private conscience, subject to the legal restrictions and provisions in force concerning the procedure in the jurisdiction concerned. I think access to safe and legal abortion should be retained, and religious minorities and pressure groups should not be allowed to make their moral teachings laws that bind all, including non-believers.

I think equating abortion with homicide is highly questionable; while a rational argument may be made that a fetus or embryo cannot just be treated like an inanimate object, the law generally only recognises that life begins in the sense a fetus becomes a legal person once it is actually born. The laws in some jurisdictions make any abortion not performed by a qualified medical professional a crime, though in Victoria the laws regarding abortion are currently under debate.

As for the moral complexities of the question, there are a lot of different positions. Some (such as the Catholic Church) hold that human life begins at conception, and once conception occurs, a fetus or embryo should be endowed with the same moral and legal protections given to any person living outside of the womb. Others hold it is acceptable to not regard the fetus as a person until an actual point during development, while others believe personhood can only apply to a fetus once it is actually born. No universal agreement seems to have developed as to when exactly in the development of the fetus we should regard the fetus as an actual person with legal and moral rights. No agreement exists generally as to whether a fetus should be given the same legal and moral rights as a person who is already living and outside of the womb.

Given the disagreement, the only general consensus among the various positions and the law seems to be a person is protected fully by the normal legal rights that protect children and adults once they have been born. This seems to be the most reasonable point to judge when a fetus moves from being a potential human being to a real legal person with full rights and protections accorded to people who are more developed (children and adults).

I personally do not think abortions should be allowed past 20 weeks, except in cases of grave necessity where the life and health of the mother are at very serious risk if an abortion is not performed, or for other sound medical reasons.
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 49
Pro Life or Pro choice?
Posted: 10/9/2008 7:31:38 AM
It’s a tuff call being human.
It seems to me that for other animals, particularly those in the wild, abortion is much easier. If conditions for birth are not right then the animal will miscarry, or the fetus will be re-absorbed into the animal in some species, or in others one of the parents will kill and eat the baby after it’s born. Whatever the case though the animal doesn’t have to make the choice. Humans on the other hand are conscious and self-aware (well most of us are) beings and therefore are conscious of the choice they’re making, and from what I’ve seen and experienced, abortion is nearly always a difficult and agonizing decision.

I’m pro-choice; I believe the decision can never be taken lightly though, and both parties should whenever possible be involved in the process. Ultimately I believe the final decision rests with the woman…wouldn’t be a woman for quids.

I’ve had two partners have terminations that would have been my children, one when I was 16 and one at 40, both where from contraceptives failing. On both occasions the decision was difficult for both of us and both times I agreed with the final out come. It’s never really affected me deeply, though occasionally I’ve seen someone about the right age that’s looks a bit like me the woman and thought Hmmm I wonder what it would have been like.

There was a possibility that one of my children could have been terminated, when I look at them now I can’t imagine what life would be like with out them, such a wonderful human being.

Someone very close to me decided to get pregnant and have a child and was all prepared to love it and care for it. When it arrived though she couldn’t bond with it, couldn’t breast-feed it properly and fairly quickly slipped into postnatal depression, which eventually spiraled into a form of psychosis. After months of different medications, counseling, therapy, doctors and other treatments she finally couldn’t take any more and shot herself….yep it’s a tuff call being human.

I reckon pro-life is the easy way to be, black and white, no need to look at the feelings and consequences involved in the choice.

As for blowing up abortion clinics I think this is more about fundamentalism which to me isn’t about standing up for a belief but rather it’s a reflection of a persons state of mental health. People with such narrow and rigid views on life generally have pretty serious personality disorders or mental health issues.

....Just a bit of a rant from a dumb male.
Joined: 8/8/2008
Msg: 50
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Pro Life or Pro choice?
Posted: 10/10/2008 12:39:35 PM
Pro choice it is!
For anyone that is not religious catholic or some other kind of fanatic it should be quite obvious actually.

And for those who are ... just ask your self is it better to terminate an early pregnancy or to have a child that will forever suffer because of your righteousness, or shall I cal it weakness? You will then choose for yourself to be righteous and put your child to all kinds of hardship because, not thinking about the child but primarily about yourself, and that is just OK? Sorry, but you should then be informed that from every female egg cell ad from every mail spermatozoid on this earth (if those individuals live in the same time and age) a child can be born. Obviously that does not happen. Should we feel guilty because of all those lost possibilities to conceive life, to produce an individual....?

I know that I cannot change your views of the subject. Pope said that you should be ''pro life'' so it must be right? Right. But is Pope having any children …let me in least hundred of years or so at least.

There is a simple solution, use attention to your, and our partner’s fertile days (egg cell can be fertilized only in less then 24 hours of time each month). And if you get in the situation to make the ''Decision'' act lake a real man (or woman), and make the decision based on what is best for your potential offspring and not what is best for your ego.
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