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Joined: 1/21/2007
Msg: 23
Church Minister Tells Court Marijuana is a Sacrament !!Page 3 of 3    (1, 2, 3)
Hiyas Puja!

"Seems more like you cant tell your drugs apart."

As if I was personally there to tell....I said I saw them on TV and can only pass on to you what the police found out...many of the runners were found to have either been using or had pot on them! Yes...some had crack. Some had other things. But a LOT have pot.'re wrong.

A "pizz-quiz" can tell if a cancer victim has been using drugs. Big still does NOT tell the doctor, nor anyone else, the cause of a cancer, which was what we were discussing in the first place. No known test can or has PROVEN itself to point directly at one cause or source and with 100% assuridly say "This is what caused the cancer!" None. If a certain group share one common element and start having similar health problems, it can be said that "There lies the culprit!". In 75% of the cases, this is so! Let's not be foolish enough to assume that ALL ailments are the direct cause of that particular event though! Example...ALL lung cancer is caused by tobacco use. No...not at all. There are other things that can cause it. So have proven yourself ignorant of the facts.

Pot as agateway not knowing that by now is either a user themselves, or trying to justify their own attitudes towards a mind altering drug! Just because someone went worldwide with that claim doesn't mean it is not valid. I've seen too many lives wasted because of this "gateway drug" that was supposed to be so harmless. As some posters have noted, they have friends who spend their days smoking what are they doing with their liveS? LOL! I've seen family members become total stoners because of this "harmless drug"...looking for harder drugs, committing crimes to pay for their habits, etc, etc. Please, don't belittle the plight these people go through, along with their families by stating " it is 80's urban fearmongering". It is fact...if you can't live up to it, then please, by all means...keep you head in the sand! But don't be telling people who have basically lost family members to the insidiousness of this "harmless drug" that it isn't the pot that got their lost family members started, when they know it was....some of us were there.

Glaucoma healed by pot? Wouldn't that be nice..."Hey Granny...have a toke, and a smile!" There are studies underway to see about this...but for Alzheimers? LOL! I live with three of them that have is sad to see. But I can't see them getting stoned to regain memory. Way too dangerous, as I said before. People get high, figure they can do something, but wind up hurting themselves even more.
You really need to "read between the lines" when someone makes claims glorifying anything! Especially an illegal drug, no matter how "natural" it is. There are whole books devoted to "natural living" and how to use plants to heal yourself. Wonderful things! DO they work as fast and as well as modern treatments? Of course not. they can't. Chemically, the "good" elements in these plants are exactly the same as that from pharmicuticals. Example, vitamin C found in citrus fruits and strawberries is the exact same from nature, or from a pill bottle. The differences lie in the other things needed for the body to actually use these vitamins. You do not get them from the same vitamin c pill (unless it is a multi vitamin kind of thing!).

So, no, I am not the one who leads people on thinking pot is bad for you. It is. Simple fact. Just as taking ANY medication if you do not need it is bad for you. Only a fool would argue differently. Guess I may have found one!
Joined: 1/21/2007
Msg: 26
Church Minister Tells Court Marijuana is a Sacrament !!
Posted: 8/5/2007 1:50:28 PM
I guess some people were not reading the can't just go "cherry picking" facts.

I said that certain vitamins are chemically exactly the same. I also stated that there was more benefit in fruit because of the other things in them, rather than swallowing a pill. Guess some missed that part.
Mothers milk? Please. We've all seen how drugs can be passed to the next generation through that. How many 4-6 year olds do you know are still "keeping the habit"? Not too many, I can assure you. So drop that pathetic arguement.

A new study shows that pot can and does cause more cancer than tobacco use. LOL! Just the other day on the news! Why? Because it is held in the lungs longer, non-filtered, and usually smoked more to the end, unlike cigs are!

Please...stop trying to justify your pathetic opinions on a gateway drug just because you are a user, or want to seem "cool" about it. there is nothing about recreational drugs that is cool at all.

"Take the edge off"? WTF??? Why are you even trying to do that? A lifestyle change would be more in order. If you are that stressed by life in general, maybe it is time to take another look at your priorities.

I am not saying I am against people wanting to use. I don't have to like it...then again, I don't like drunk drivers either. I don't trust some pothead on the job. I can trust an alcoholic though, because they are usually sober when working. If not, I can send them home or fire them...whatever. A pot head? It gets to the point where you can't tell if they are "normally like that" or if they are ripped!

I now a lot of people who feel they are under the gun and want to relax with a toke or two. Fine and dandy...heck, I say legalize it and tax it! They can't do that yet because they need a roadside test for it. As soon as some brightboy comes up with it, they will legalize it.

As far as crime rates are concerned....drug use increases crime rates. Simple facts. You hinestly think people can afford their habits? Where are they working? No....they turn to prostitution, burgleries, mugging, armed robbery.

Grow your own? Some do. I've seen people growing a plant or two in their homes....but when they start growning 20+ plants or are "farming " it, then they get themselves into trouble. Bike gangs have been buying houses, and making them "gro-ops" taking in cash like you wouldn't believe. The houses pay themselves off in no time, and if the cops do sieze the place, so what? Next week, another house is bought.

Religious use of drugs? It does have a history. As does drug use in war-time to make better soldiers.

Yes...some people are lazy...may do nothing with their we need to add to that with drug use? Maybe you feel as such.

Tree bark is not as effective as an't know where you get your ideas or facts from (probably some new-age stoner site" or some such. )

Watch what you are reading...weigh both sides of the issue....don't lock your mind up to the idea that "pot...good....those against, bad". Sorry, some of us have seen what it can do...others...still have to learn I guess.
Joined: 4/15/2004
Msg: 29
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Church Minister Tells Court Marijuana is a Sacrament !!
Posted: 8/6/2007 4:17:46 AM
blady...just FYI, hemp was used enormously during the colonial times as there are many benefits that are now suppressed by mega-corporations. For example, during the colonial times (and I believe before that too), hemp fibers were used to make ropes, shoes, and clothing. Hemp has 10 times more pulp than lumber. The stems of hemp have fatty acids that that are good for people with high chlorestrol. And plus Hemp seeds can be used to make biodegradable paints.

Even after, hemp was used by the Japanese and grown in huge numbers to make variety of things in World War II. There is an old TV propoganda American footage which shows how "eager" they must secure the hemp fields for their own selves. I'll try to post that link to the video footage if I ever find it. Hemp is 10 times more impact resistant than steel, which is why Henry Ford's first model T (I believe that was the name of the first car prototype) was made of hemp. The guy even had hemp fields that he intended to use to make his car and power the prototype's engines (ethanol).

So basically, with all these "pro's", you can see why hemp was not very popular among many industrialists back around the 20's and 30's when they started to look for ways to make it "illegal" and "demonize" the product via political bribes and other means at their disposal.

I do not say that SMOKING it doesn't do anything. But hey, doesn't tobacco do anything? As well as alcohol? I think the recent "research" that dope makes a person "psychotic" is just another pathetic attempt to demonize it (since I'm pretty sure it's not backed by research of via "scientific methods" and mainly built on "case studies" and hypothesis, or an educated guess). ANY DRIED PLANT if you rap it in paper, be it grass,'s all dangerous due to the "carbon monoxide that is produces and inhaled by the body (for tobacco, I guess they put a lot of other things such as tar and other chemicals to make it more desirable; and thus making it more lethal). The only other thing next to smoking is drinking, which kills in the long run, by cirohossis (liver disease) and the fact that alcohol drains calcium.

If somebody would like to add, or comment on what I have wrote, please by all means post.
Joined: 1/21/2007
Msg: 30
Church Minister Tells Court Marijuana is a Sacrament !!
Posted: 8/7/2007 6:39:42 AM
BWahahaha...just what I expected from people who either are users or support them. They seem to get real defensive trying to prove that they are NOT criinals. GFuess what? They are! They are breaking the laws (whether they like said law or not!) and are therefore looked upon AS criminals in our justice society. Where do their dollars go? Why, to support other criminals! What a shock! We don't have to agree with the laws....we can work towards changing them. When blatantly violating these laws, we do become criminals, even if we feel we are not! These people now they are brekaing the laws, therefore, they try to justify their actions by saying inane things like "it takes the edge off", etc. At least prescriptions are legal! Also, such prescriptions are not necessarily dangerous, they are regulated, far moreso than pot. Who knows what the heck is in what you are smoking? You don't!

Also, as stated, pot does cause cancer, and other lung diseases, just as tobacco does. People don't want these facts outt there to support their stance. Just as the fact is there that tobacco users supply more in tax dollars to the health system than they use up! Simple fact, that some do not want out there as general knowledge.

All I have seen is users trying to justify why they break the law, and claiming I'm the uneducated one! LOL! A stoner trying to debate the merits of their bad habit!

Last week on MSN news, one joint the equivalent to 3-5 cigarettes. Some people only see what they want to see I guess.

As far as seeing the effects on, not one loser friend. Several, and some family members, and watched classmates toss their lives away. Tell me again how drugs don't affect people???

Listing a few "famous" people that you suspect (or perhaps are/were) were "users" and listing their achievements is nothing in comparison to the number who became, in your words, "losers". Even a blind mouse gets the cheese one in awhile!

Grrat example for the kids too! "Go ahead, break the law if you don't agree to it! As long as you feel you aren't hurting anyone, what difference does it make?" "Yeah, getting high takes the edge off from this fast paced world we live in!"

Where do I get off telling others to change their lives? LOL! I make a suggestion, and you treat it as if I'm Moses bringing the 10 commandments! Again, I say, if your life is that stressful, maybe it is time for a change. The powers that be could also use the numbers of people that need to "take the edge off", because as long as they don't know, they keep piling the work on! When do you say "enough is enough!" If the numbers of people who cannot handle the stress of todays world is known, then perhaps, changes can be made to give them some relief! Example, many get 2 weeks vacation here...European model many get 4 weeks. Try demanding that here, and employers would be screaming their lungs out!(Sure, some offer that to managment types, or after years of service.)

Nope....criminals trying to claim their acts are made in innocence are still criminals. Don't like the tag? Too are what you get the laws changed!

Yes prohibition is big business. Which is why the gov't needs a roadside test for pot use. When they get it, it will be legalized, taxed, and publically available. Duh...otherwise how would you be keeping the stoners off the road? Think their reflexes are faster or something? Get real!
Joined: 4/15/2004
Msg: 31
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Church Minister Tells Court Marijuana is a Sacrament !!
Posted: 8/7/2007 10:41:45 AM
to yna6: don't rely on MSN, they are ALWAYS JUST FULL OF IT! I've seen majority of their "scientific research" article, and I gotta say....completely a bunch of crap. It is in "MSN News" that I read about just how much week marijuana is the cause of "psychotic behavior", when they fail to mention George Washington; who smoked weed and still kicked some serious, numerically superior, and better-armed (in the beginning that is) royal butt. I don't think "psychotic people" can do this? Do you?
Joined: 2/11/2007
Msg: 36
Church Minister Tells Court Marijuana is a Sacrament !!
Posted: 8/7/2007 4:14:38 PM
Governments have lied about pot for over 75 years. Why would any intelligent person believe yet another so sponsored "study"?
Joined: 2/11/2007
Msg: 37
Church Minister Tells Court Marijuana is a Sacrament !!
Posted: 8/7/2007 4:54:13 PM
Btw, the active ingredient in willow bark is salicylic acid, first synthesized in the 5th century BC. The original "wonder drug"(forerunner of aspirin). Pot has been used much longer. More "facts".
Joined: 1/21/2007
Msg: 38
Church Minister Tells Court Marijuana is a Sacrament !!
Posted: 8/8/2007 8:34:00 AM
I can see that those who arging for pot use are doing anything and everything to defeat the one voice. Attacking the person rather thanthe arguement, even gong so far as to say that actual news items are faked, and attempting to attack the debate process itself (straw man? Really? Try again...)

Please...tell me about the "facts" Tell me that drawing smoke into your lungs does't put contaminants there that cause cancer. Tell me that regular pot smokers (who do not use tobacco products) are going to tell the docs that it was the weed, when they KNOW the insurance companies will not cover them then. Please, tell me all about how hundreds, if not thousands of people do this. Tell me about the poster that has to hide his habit from his employer for fear of losing his job. Tell me about the thousands who did/are not doing all that greta with their lives because of pot.

Taking the edge off...again...why? A lifestyle change would be far healthier rather than turning to an illegal drug to do so. You can't even admit it to yourself.

Being a criminal....whether you like it or not, it is true. Therefore you can't even admit it to yourself that you are, indeed, a criminal for smoking pot. Yes, it is becoming more of a misdemeaner than anything in some places...great, fine and dandy. IT doesn't change the FACT that it is still illegal, therefore making the user/seller/grower all criminals, doesn't it? Don't like the way society handles it? Work at getting the laws changed!

I know a few people who have been hurt and use pot as a painkiller. Seems they know they are still hurt, but don't give a rip! Masking the symptoms, rather than healing. This does nothing to promote the health and wellbeing of that person. With some it is almost a godsend....keeps that pain at bay, helps make eating much easier. and can give the person a far better attitude towards their life in general.

My parenting skills are not in question here....teaching the kids to follow the laws of the land where they live is always in order. Teaching a child to break the laws because they don't agree with them leads to them pushing their boundaries, as any child would and does. Never saw anyone trying to rebutt that. It is simply true. The "Do as I say, not as I do" arguement does nothing for a child...they learn by example. So attacking me for bringing that fact up again brings nothing to the debate.

Pot does have a history...a long and sometimes interesting one. It had been rumoured that tobacco companies had been adding abit to their cigs away back when. Never admitted that I know of.

You people keep screaming "get educated about this...get the facts!" Guess what? I did that alog time ago....and didn't like what I saw. I took another look, and could see some benefit to it, and didn't write it off as "evil crap" as some do. But, as far as education is concerned, educate yourselves to BOTH sides, as I did (why should I bring up the good side of it when so many of you out there can do it for me? LOL!)
The only people here that need to be educated are those wh are screaming at me to shut up, caus ehtye don't want the truth to get out there.....their views MUST dominate...even if they are wrong.
Joined: 1/21/2007
Msg: 40
Church Minister Tells Court Marijuana is a Sacrament !!
Posted: 8/8/2007 2:13:44 PM
Once again....another voice saying that certain sources that are available and up to date are not worthy of mentioning because they do not follow your agenda. Please....disagreeing with you, and your sources is one thing, dismissing it altogether because you think it is from the 80"s?? Please...last week wasn't that long ago!

As stated, a RUMOUR (unsubstanciated at that!) said that perhaps some tobacco companies were adding pot to their product. Sure...other things are added too...but they sure as heck are NOT going to up and say "Yeah, we grow a few crops of pot to flavour our product!" Get real!

Criminality....if you can admit that you are a criminal for it, then where can that lead? many other laws, if any, are ignored because you don't agree with them. Makes many people suspect you, your motives, and your character. You will realize this as you get some real life experience under your belt, and meet many more people than you have.

Parenting...damned right I question a users parenting skills. "Do as I say, not as I do!" You honestly think kids are that clueless? You may well have been, but it certainly isn't so much of the time!

You speak as if you have somethng to say, but continue in the same smoke-hazed circles. When confronted about it, you attack the poster. you are in an argument you cannot win, having already lost your credibility, because your lack of life experience has already given you away! You haven't seen how years of use can and does affect people. You haven't taken into consideration the social ramifications of pot use has....which can range from loss of jobs to insurance coverage, etc, etc, not to mention fines, jail time, split families, and support of other criminals...the dealers, growers etc. You haven't been able to address any of it, because you didn' stop to think about it. Not to mention ignoring sources (recent ones!) that don't fit your agenda.

A new study (found on CBC site) says that some derivatives from pot have been approved for the use of relieving pain in MS patients. Of course this does fit into your little agenda, BUT, because it is forma source you already say is outdated, no good, blah, blah, cannot be used.

As I said...start actually looking at things the way they ARE, rather than what we'd like them to be .
Joined: 1/21/2007
Msg: 42
Church Minister Tells Court Marijuana is a Sacrament !!
Posted: 8/8/2007 5:56:40 PM
sources...start within the last 10 days...MSN news and I have already stated. Notice...nothing from the 80's...all recent.

sneaking weed into I said, it was a rumour, unsubstanciated, and neither you nor I will find out for sure! then again, many products have their "secrets", don't they? Producers have a long history of adding things to their products for one reason or another. We are becoming more aware of this practice and how it affects us, and ban some of it...but it can still get onto the shelves. Example, paint heavily laced with lead. Seems Mattel had a recent recall for many toys with that problem...or were you so far out of it you missed that too??

You still have your ideals....real life will show you the error of your ways as you grow older and gain more life experience. Doesn't mean they are wrong...just that you will come to realize that there are too many wrongs in the world for you to right. Doesn't mean give up...keep fighting...but pick your battles.

Pot is not a good battle to be fighting for(only MY opinion)....but, if you're going to do it, then do it in a manner that wins people over to you, rather than trying to belittle the people who are arguing against you. In your shoes, I would have said something along the lines of "Yes...todays world is a stressful one, and people can't cope with it too well. therefore, using pot as a stress reliever, or even a pain reliever can go a long ways to improve the quality of life for many." Or, even said " is illegal right now...but we hope to have it legalized and regulated in the near future considering its recreational value, similar to alcohol, and the by products it can be used for." Didn't hear anything like that from anyone.

So, tell me again that breathing smoke of any kind into your lungs won't cause cancer? Didn't see your post on that one....

What was that you said about lives destroyed? Oh didn't have anything to say about that, did you?

What about the supporting the criminal element? forgot to even address that.

Hiding your drug use form employers and insurance companies? I missed your insightful posts about why that didn't post anything...riiiiight.

Your "strawman theory" just went up in flames. Real facts that you can't even begin to argue against because of the way society views pot. Doesn't matter how you WANT it to be...the real world which you live in sees things slightly differently. As I have your will correct your thinking.
Good luck with it...wish you well! Hope to be able to have a debate on something you've thought out sometime!
Joined: 1/21/2007
Msg: 44
Church Minister Tells Court Marijuana is a Sacrament !!
Posted: 8/9/2007 2:36:41 PM
All the wishing in the world doesn't make any of the points you've brought up as factual. The facts is ,it IS illegal right now, and does have legal consequences. Very simple for even a child to understand. No argument can change that. The only thing that could change it is to send the politicians a message that a majority of the people want it legalized. That is the ONLY way it can be done.

We can go back and forth over the merits of pot, the health issues, both for and against, but until we KNOW for sure, there is little if anything to be done about it.

Until some people start actually taking the REAL world into account, as in the here and now, then argument or dabate is impossible. Can't argue with someone who is either a regular user (no use arguing with a druggie, alki, or whatever...they will always try to find a way to justify themselves!) nor is it possible to open a kids eyes to the fact that they simply don't have the life experience to definitely say "This isn't as harmful as you may think, because ...(insert excuse here)." This is especially true when you take into account the experiences of people older than yourself that have actually seen what can and does happen. The 'losers" you refer to...I've known too many that may well have not of been if it wasn't for the drugs. But,,,the drugs were did affect them....some are dead, some are pretty well living in a vegetative state (hey ma...what's for dinner? ) others simply have stagnant lives.

As stated...wishing things different, screaming about studies that show how it could all be fixed...fine and still doesn't address the FACT that it is still illegal, does it?

have fun trying to dabate that.....and lose.
Joined: 4/15/2004
Msg: 46
view profile
Church Minister Tells Court Marijuana is a Sacrament !!
Posted: 8/12/2007 4:12:35 PM
Of all, one thing that truly saddens me regarding cannabis "demonization" is that countless trees and habitats that rely on them are being wiped every day just to get pulp, when the hemp has 10 times more pulp and can be grown easily in vast numbers. I believe the material or fiber in hemp can also be used to make biodegradable plastics (I have to look that one over as to chemistry behind that). If this happens, lumber industries will go bankrupt, as well as hurt the oil refining companies big time if their non-biodegradable plastic is replaced by a much more environment friendly plastic.
Joined: 2/11/2007
Msg: 47
Church Minister Tells Court Marijuana is a Sacrament !!
Posted: 8/18/2007 1:34:33 PM
You sir, have made a valid point. The contention appears to be about facts, about truth and, only your voice is represented by facts and or links to documented information about the subject. If your adversary does not concur then ipso-facto, he invalidates his position. You will never convince an ignorant person of anything unless he is willing to accept it hence, ignorance begets ignorance. Only the rare occurrence of an open minded individual can break the chain.
Joined: 10/16/2006
Msg: 50
Church Minister Tells Court Marijuana is a Sacrament !!
Posted: 4/22/2008 12:35:19 AM

I think this guy and his congregation are nothing more than potheads. Cannibus is native to the Himalayas... not to southern Iraq, which is where Eden supposedly lies. According to recent research, it was supposedly located just off the coast of Iraq, and is under water where the region's rivers met before the oceans rose after the last ice-age melted. So since Cannibus is not native to mesopotamia (and The Bible says nothing about smoking the tree of life) this guy and his congregation are just a few dumb potheads trying to get their high-ass camel through a loophole the size of the eye of a needle.

Well the contents of the qaneh bosm anointing oil may have been "swee cane" calamus or cinnamon and not cannabis indica, however it's use as a cultivated plant certainly goes back in China at least to 4000 BCE, Turkmenastan 3000BCE, and was used as a medicinal plant throughout the Far and Near East for at least the entire time of the collation of the stories that became the Bible.

As well there are more than a few other groups that view cannabis as a sacrament so there is little unusual about this.

See Chris Bennett's 7 part video series Marijuana and The Bible, as well as his informative and often hilarious clearinghouse of information mini docs at Burning Shiva over at
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