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 tie_me_up81
Joined: 3/30/2010
Msg: 34
Women asking Men outPage 2 of 5    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5)
Another thing, I find it funny how only a man is considered as someone who is a cheapskate if they refuse to pay for the opposite gender while women get let off the hook with any excuse in the world.

Gotta larf
 internetdatinglol
Joined: 5/17/2007
Msg: 35
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Women asking Men out
Posted: 3/21/2012 6:01:41 PM
Really? What kind of guy goes on a date and REFUSES to pay anyway? Calling a guy like that a cheapskate is being generous.

It's just a date buddy, not a gender battleground. Chill.

I for one am pretty comfortable with the default position being that the guy pays. But I've never had a woman not at least offer to chip in.
 tie_me_up81
Joined: 3/30/2010
Msg: 36
Women asking Men out
Posted: 3/21/2012 6:30:28 PM

What kind of guy goes on a date and REFUSES to pay anyway?


A man with a spine who wants equality and not female chauvinism.


I for one am pretty comfortable with the default position being that the guy pays.


That means you have no spine and no respect for your gender. It also means that you are desperate.


It's just a date buddy, not a gender battleground. Chill.


It's not me who is making it as such, its the people who want anti male double standards instead of equality.
 internetdatinglol
Joined: 5/17/2007
Msg: 37
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Women asking Men out
Posted: 3/21/2012 6:47:27 PM
I'm hardly desperate, I just don't model my dating life after Scrooge McDuck.

But uh good luck explaining to the next girl you date about the myriad of political and social reasons why you won't pay for her meal. I'm sure she'll be begging for more...
 tie_me_up81
Joined: 3/30/2010
Msg: 38
Women asking Men out
Posted: 3/21/2012 6:55:02 PM

I'm hardly desperate, I just don't model my dating life after Scrooge McDuck.


So I guess this also applies to the women you date?

Do you think people look stupid when they want double standards? I certainly do.

 internetdatinglol
Joined: 5/17/2007
Msg: 39
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Women asking Men out
Posted: 3/21/2012 7:00:25 PM
Like I said, every woman I have been on a date with has offered to chip in. At least.
If in the future I come across one who doesn't that's also okay as I still go into a date expecting to pay. Why? Becauase I'm not an anachronistic pseudo-communist on the forefront of feminist demagoguery I guess.
Yet again this is one of those things you spaz out over that I don't see to be much of an issue. Hope your futile anger at nothing is working out for you though.:)
 tie_me_up81
Joined: 3/30/2010
Msg: 40
Women asking Men out
Posted: 3/21/2012 7:19:57 PM
internetdatinglol

I see you are yet again (like every argument we have) pulling out the 'anger card" as an intimidation tactic.

The reality is that I find it hard to feel anger when I am laughing at people such as your self who seem to love double standards due to your desperation in dating. It's not much different than paying a hooker for sex as you are desperate for sex.

You see, I prefer to not buy women. I am not a desperado.
 internetdatinglol
Joined: 5/17/2007
Msg: 41
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Women asking Men out
Posted: 3/21/2012 7:27:52 PM
Haha where the hell did the hooker thing come from? Let me get this straight... if a woman lets a man pay on a date, she is practically equal to a prostitute?

Um, okay. Interesting window to your psyche there.

And again, I'm not desperate (if you want to continue that line, I suggest you reread the hilarious second half of your own profile). The vast majority of guys who actually do go on dates have the same outlook on this as I do. It's just life, deal with it or something.
 tie_me_up81
Joined: 3/30/2010
Msg: 42
Women asking Men out
Posted: 3/21/2012 7:47:15 PM
internetdatinglol

I know its hard to be a desperado in denial. But come on man, you can't deny it when you want to BUY women due to you insecurities. You feel that you can't get a woman any other way.
 Pookiessooverperth
Joined: 1/23/2012
Msg: 43
Women asking Men out
Posted: 3/21/2012 8:15:28 PM
^^^^^^^Mmmmm I know who I prefer to go out with on a date between you two (you know if I was asked - and yeah call me old fashioned but I still liked to be asked.....and I always offer to pay as I work too.........!!!)

Give me a gentleman, who doesnt have to resort to name calling or feel the need to publicly degrade someone on a forum anytime
 MrsNaamah
Joined: 11/8/2011
Msg: 44
Women asking Men out
Posted: 3/21/2012 8:43:34 PM
Jebus. Both chipping in is a perfectly valid concept, but this notion of reducing the dating dynamic to some kind of 'cash for human interaction' basis is laughable. People are not commodities for sale.

If you buy a friend lunch, are you buying their friendship?
If you buy your child a present, are you buying their love?
If you buy a date drinks, are you buying affection/sex?

Also might be pertinent to ask yourself, even if you feel that the answer to any of those questions is 'yes', whether the other person concerned is actually even aware that they have, apparently, just sold themselves to you. ?? They may have (erroneously, apparently) thought that what you were paying for was the purchase of some consumable items which you are now going to enjoy together whilst sharing time and space, rather than having just purchased their body and soul. Those naïve fools.

I really don't think it's appropriate to cast your drinks/dinner/movie companions in the role of 'hooker' without their express consent simply because of a skewed perception. (Besides, once they understand your terms, they may wish to demand a higher price ) But I suppose…next time a friend offers to buy me lunch, I could leap to my feet and say “Whaddaya think I’m a whore or something? My friendship is NOT for sale you know!” That should clear things up nicely.
 tie_me_up81
Joined: 3/30/2010
Msg: 45
Women asking Men out
Posted: 3/21/2012 8:57:05 PM
MrsNaamah

My problem is the women who make it a deal breaker.

Pay for me or you are not worthy. Is this fair?

This is exactly what I am talking about, it's buying the person. The man is paying because he wants her to be satisfied, he is not just buying the item, he is buying her interest.

It's all to do with the the "be a gentleman" or "don't be a cheapskate" claptrap. It's deemed by many people that a man is not respecting the woman if he doesn't buy her stuff.

So apparently, the man has to BUY the woman or else he is not worthy and he is being disrespectful.

It's fine for a woman to like being paid for. It's fine for a man to like paying for the woman. But its not fine when people make it as a rule, as for it has to be this way or else it's over .

Emotional blackmail comes into mind.
 MrsNaamah
Joined: 11/8/2011
Msg: 46
Women asking Men out
Posted: 3/21/2012 9:16:38 PM
Well, no, he's perhaps buying the food/drinks...but not the woman. It's your perception which has gone too far to the other extreme. No matter if there are some spongers and divas out there, it is not justifiable to therefore refer to women as hookers, and men who pay for drinks as 'buying women'. Like any form of bitterness, it only skews your outlook and damages you in the end.

Has a woman ever said to you...you pay or there is no date? Has a woman ever said to you...pay for me or you are not worthy? If any have, don't date them. But to let it cause you to perceive that this is the underlying basis of all dating perceptions might cause you to indeed look like a cheapskate, because of the fact that you end up preaching to the converted as well as the few spongers and divas you object to....and you start to sound obsessive and extreme. Like I said, it damages you in the end.

If I buy a friend lunch, I do it because I want to...because I like them, and it feels nice. It's not done to buy their friendship, or because I think they wouldn't have lunch with me if I didn't pay. When they offer, I understand it's the same sentiment. That generosity of spirit is part of the connection between people, and effectively removes any need for a ledger to be kept. If you can understand that, then you can surely apply it to the context of dating, because it's the same sort of thing. Social interaction is not a competitive sport, or a financial investment where returns are paramount.

And if it makes you that uptight, don't do it. It's meant to be fun. :)
 tie_me_up81
Joined: 3/30/2010
Msg: 47
Women asking Men out
Posted: 3/21/2012 10:02:52 PM
MrsNaamah

As I said, it's fine for men to like the idea of paying for a woman. But its not when a man feels that he has to in order to stay with the woman. It's perfectly valid to point out the desperation in this case.


Has a woman ever said to you...you pay or there is no date?


Not directly where we are discussing a plan to date but in random conversations with women either in real life or on private chats on the the net or in forums I have heard plenty of women say these types of things.

I think probably most or all of us have heard people say in our life time that a man is not a gentleman if he doesn't pay, or a man is not a real man if he doesn't pay, or a man is a cheapskate if he doesn't pay.

If you haven't heard these things said plenty of times in your life, you must be living under a rock.


But to let it cause you to perceive that this is the underlying basis of all dating perceptions might cause you to indeed look like a cheapskate, because of the fact that you end up preaching to the converted as well as the few spongers and divas you object to....and you start to sound obsessive and extreme. Like I said, it damages you in the end.


Riiight. So just objecting to the notion of a man being expected to pay means all these things? A man is just supposed to shut up and never be allowed to express an opposing opinion against it?

How dare a man expresses he disagrees, right?


If I buy a friend lunch, I do it because I want to...because I like them, and it feels nice. It's not done to buy their friendship, or because I think they wouldn't have lunch with me if I didn't pay.


I understand that but when people make it as a rule, that's where there is a problem as it turns into buying the person. It's basically saying you have to pay up or else there is no purchase.

It's not being bitter, it's not being skewed, its not being obsessive, it’s not being extreme to simply point out that I shouldn't be expected to pay for someone, especially when they are a stranger on a first date.

It's as rude as expecting sex and/or making it a deal breaker on a date. Are women bitter, skewed, obsessive, and extreme if they express that they object to being expected to spread their legs on a date and make it a deal breaker? Seriously.

With this youtube link I am about to provide, this guy is a bit of a douche, I disagree with him in other topics but with this topic, he is spot on.

Will She Buy YOU Dinner?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6OKuzkUWho
 MrsNaamah
Joined: 11/8/2011
Msg: 48
Women asking Men out
Posted: 3/21/2012 11:40:37 PM
...sorry, got distracted...




A man is just supposed to shut up and never be allowed to express an opposing opinion against it?

How dare a man expresses he disagrees, right?


Not at all. But in this case you have evolved your opinion to such a point where you are broadly stating that women are hookers...thereby potentially offending all women over the fact that there is a small group of women with a mindset that you specifically object to. Your opinion has also evolved to a point of accusing all men who are happy to pay on a date, of being desperado types who have to pay women to go out with them, when the reality is that they may simply be operating from a spirit of generosity as exists between people who genuinely like each other. You do both genders a disservice.

And sadly, if you profess to have gained your understanding of men, women and dating purely from posts made on this forum, then I would suggest that it is not me who is living under a rock.




Are women bitter, skewed, obsessive, and extreme if they express that they object to being expected to spread their legs on a date and make it a deal breaker?

Yes, if they do so repeatedly, and work themselves into a frenzy of conclusion that all men think that way. I'm no more in favour of one skewed viewpoint than I am of another purely on the basis of the gender of the person espousing it.

In fact, I may be countering your extreme viewpoint, but that doesn't mean you can therefore conclude that I hold the opposite extreme to be true. As in, I'm not here to take the position that all women are faultless beings...I just object to the position that all women are hookers.

Anyway, I think you misunderstand the concept of gender equality. It doesn't mean an expectation of men and women becoming identical. It just means reaching an acceptance that neither is superior or inferior. You can martyr yourself to a concept of extreme sameness if you like, but you might be denying yourself some simple pleasures.

I'll leave you with it. ...Actually... I am going to go start cooking dinner for my husband and I. *GASP*...gender stereotype alert! << Of course I could refuse to cook him dinner on the basis that I will not conform to the dictates of traditional gender stereotyping and make a stand about my objections to the outrageous view that it's somehow a woman's role to cook dinner, and I work too, and deny him the pleasure of coming home to a cooked meal in order to 'teach men a lesson in equality', and be sure he knows that he has no right to ever expect me to cook him dinner, and so on and so forth. And we could sit there and feel kinda self-righteously PC, and ... hungry. But the reality is; I know he doesn't expect me to cook him dinner, and I really don't care if other men might expect their wive to, nor about the injustice of it if they do, cos it would be ridiculous to hold him responsible for the views of all or some men). Besides, someone has to cook if we're to eat. He's had a longer day at work than me so it makes sense. He'll have been outside in the rain...so when he gets home all cold and wet and smells warm food he'll feel good...and I happen to really enjoy making him feel good (and it doesn't even make me feel in any way oppressed or inferior to do so...go figure.) We'll eat together, enjoy each other's company, have full bellies, ...then of course then I'll expect him to put out cos I made dinner. Point being...human relationships are only a battlefield if you make them so.
 Hilly02
Joined: 10/7/2011
Msg: 49
Women asking Men out
Posted: 3/22/2012 12:21:54 AM
If I buy a friend lunch, I do it because I want to...because I like them, and it feels nice. It's not done to buy their friendship, or because I think they wouldn't have lunch with me if I didn't pay

But I wouldn't..... so no more lunches for us!
Personally I like to pay. That way I own their very soul and can do as I wish and demand they put out if I feel so inclined.
 tie_me_up81
Joined: 3/30/2010
Msg: 50
Women asking Men out
Posted: 3/22/2012 12:35:05 AM
MrsNaamah

In this case you seem to be evolving your opinion by either purposely or blindly misconceiving what I am saying.

I didn't say women were hookers who expect men to pay. However, I said they aren't much different. A woman who has the mentality of "if you want me you have to pay up" isn’t acting much different to a hooker.


Your opinion has also evolved to a point of accusing all men who are happy to pay on a date, of being desperado types


ALL men who choose to pay?Please cite this and back up your claim.

I am sorry that you have issues with comprehension heh heh but as I've expressed a couple times in here, it's fine for men to like the idea of paying for a woman. But its not when a man feels that he has to in order to stay with the woman.

Do I need to dumb this down for you? There is a difference between wanting to pay out of generosity than there is to think you have to do so or else you aren't satisfying the woman. With the latter, it's perfectly valid to point out that men who are like this are insecure and desperate. Just like men who pay hookers for sex.

There is nothing extreme about my viewpoint. There is nothing extreme about thinking its wrong for people to think one person is OBLIGATED to pay.


I just object to the position that all women are hookers


Where did I ever say all women are hookers?


Anyway, I think you misunderstand the concept of gender equality. It doesn't mean an expectation of men and women becoming identical.


Yes it does. Gender equality means no one has to pay for the other. Equality means equal standards, not double standards. Equality means equality. There is no way around it.


Point being...human relationships are only a battlefield if you make them so.


If he demanded you to cook dinner or else he is pissed with you, this would be a recipe for a battlefield.

There is absolutely nothing wrong or extreme about pointing out how ludicrous it is for women to have poisoned senses of entitlement or men feeling so insecure about themselves that they feel they need to pay up in order to keep a woman.

I am perfectly valid and entitled to have this opinion and express it. If you don't like it, tough shit.
 Hilly02
Joined: 10/7/2011
Msg: 51
Women asking Men out
Posted: 3/22/2012 12:48:09 AM

If you don't like it, tough shit

Taking a wild stab in the dark, I would imagine she doesn't really care....considering she is happily married and you are...ummm...not.
 Pookiessooverperth
Joined: 1/23/2012
Msg: 52
Women asking Men out
Posted: 3/22/2012 1:04:10 AM
^^^^^^ and that she is Hilly....as for Tie me up (if only) ..he is young therefore knows it all !!!




I am perfectly valid and entitled to have this opinion and express it. If you don't like it, tough shit



Mmm good luck with getting a date this weekend with that attitude....
 tie_me_up81
Joined: 3/30/2010
Msg: 53
Women asking Men out
Posted: 3/22/2012 1:10:34 AM

Taking a wild stab in the dark, I would imagine she doesn't really care....considering she is happily married and you are...ummm...not.


Oh no, shock.

For starters, I do have casual play partners but I don't have a relationship.

From your way of thinking, you seem unhappy being single and unmarried. That is one difference between us. By your wording, you think its so important.

You appear to be clingy to think this way. I usually run a mile from women who are like this.

From where I stand, a woman in my life is not a need, it's a want. But if I don't get it, I am not going to feel negative about it. It's like I want a million dollars but I aren't going to get butthurt if I don't get it.

That said, I don't even want to ever get married.

Sure, its a pleasure to have a special someone but there are a thousand other things in life that make me happy. It's a pity that you can't be happy without someone.


Mmm good luck with getting a date this weekend with that attitude...


Oh my bad. How dare I think that I shouldn't be obligated to pay for other people. I am so wrong to think this way, I must be punished with rejection.
 qldblue
Joined: 2/4/2009
Msg: 54
Women asking Men out
Posted: 3/22/2012 1:14:35 AM
I pay for the food when I go on a date but I don't expect that cost to involve a woman's passion and I am not spineless, I just don't have that anger or expectation.

If you decide to pay for a date's meal then so be it but if you object to paying for your date's meal then so be it.

All I am reading is that you are a very tight money orientated person Tie me up 81.

You have your opinion and that is your opinion but it is obviously not an opinion shared by quite a few people.

If all your worried about who pays and you are upset with the expectations of some women then I would suggest that you stop overthinking the who pays situation and stop expecting your hooker girlfriends to give you any freebies.

Yes your rant did heavily suggest that women who have their meals bought for them by the guy who asked them out are hookers.
 tie_me_up81
Joined: 3/30/2010
Msg: 55
Women asking Men out
Posted: 3/22/2012 1:22:12 AM
qldblue

So does that mean a woman is very tight with money if she objects to paying for me? Or is there a double standard?

There is a difference between being tight with money than there is to object to people who have poisoned senses of entitlement.

There are all these shaming tactics thrown at men who object to paying for the woman but I am yet to see any such shaming tactics thrown at a woman who objects to paying for a man.


Yes your rant did heavily suggest that women who have their meals bought for them by the guy who asked them out are hookers.


You obviously have very poor comprehension skills.
 Hilly02
Joined: 10/7/2011
Msg: 56
Women asking Men out
Posted: 3/22/2012 2:09:08 AM

You appear to be clingy to think this way

What do Hilly and velcro have in common??.......but seriously dunno....you would have to ask my other half. Only he is uncontactable as his phone got cut off...... cos I spent all his money and he couldn't pay the bill.
 tie_me_up81
Joined: 3/30/2010
Msg: 57
Women asking Men out
Posted: 3/22/2012 2:23:22 AM
Hilly02

As your profile indicates that you're divorced and you seem to be unhappy about not being married, are you nagging him to get married or what? He probably cut off his phone because you kept calling him to nag him about marriage.
 qldblue
Joined: 2/4/2009
Msg: 58
Women asking Men out
Posted: 3/22/2012 6:15:34 AM
My comprehension skills are very good actually but then again you did liken women to whores not me.

It is you who is applying the double standard whereas I have kept my standards.

I really don't give a rats if your choice is to remain unmarried it isn't going to change your attitude to women as well.

So I guess the difference between your stance and mine is the fact I don't worry about paying for a woman to have a meal with me when sex isn't being offered or expected.

Damn my Grandmother teaching me some manners.

Not everything in this world is about getting all you want with little regard for the niceties of social interaction.

I suppose you get your kicks out of as you say shaming women who do not pay for you.

But then again I suppose you must be blessed to know that life owes you something for just existing.
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