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 prolibertate
Joined: 9/11/2005
Msg: 69
I don't know how to forgive someone and I think it's killing me a little bit day by day...Page 5 of 5    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5)
OP, I don't see what you have to forgive him for...perhaps it's that you need to forgive yourself. Do you harbor regret that you got involved with him and how it ended up? If so, then forgive yourself and only deal with him when it comes to your child. Also, no one can do to you what you don't let them - when he trys to push your buttons, don't let him. Once you do it, it gets easier. This guy doesn't sound like any type of winner, not does he sound like he'll ever come close to father of the year. If he's doing things with your child that you disapprove of, then get an order so he can only have supervised visits - since he's not paying support, or wasn't, and if you can prove his being with the child alone is detrimental to the child, you should be able to get supervised visits. Frankly, I wouldn't let my child go anywhere with the someone like you've described. And I'd make sure he didn't have a key to my home for any reason.
 prolibertate
Joined: 9/11/2005
Msg: 71
I don't know how to forgive someone and I think it's killing me a little bit day by day...
Posted: 8/7/2007 4:05:45 PM
anenigma, that really stinks! What if you caught him on video? If the courts won't help, then I guess all you can do it keep instilling your own values in your child, don't bad mouth his father (which I'm sure you don't do anyway) and don't let anyone else do it in front of your child, and try really hard to not let him upset you. he probably gets a charge out of it, and yuo can prevent this from happening if you hold your cool...eventually, when he realizes he isn't going to get a rise out of you, he'll stop. I know it's hard not to get upset and to react back in the same manner, but believe me, I've been there, done that in different situations, and now that I don't let things get to me anymore my life is a lot less stressful. Life is too short to let someone else make you miserable and upset. Don't react to him, and he'll be the one who gets upset inside when his tactics don't work anymore. Best of luck to you
 PosterChild4Ugly
Joined: 12/27/2006
Msg: 78
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History
Forgiveness ...
Posted: 8/8/2007 3:03:17 PM
Forgiveness is the perfume a flower leaves on the shoe that crushed it.

If we can do the same, could it not be our lives will be more serene and less complicated?
 mlm_mlm_mlm
Joined: 4/29/2007
Msg: 81
I don't know how to forgive someone and I think it's killing me a little bit day by day...
Posted: 8/9/2007 6:57:37 AM
msg 87, if that was true.... she wouldnt be asking.
 packagedealx3
Joined: 2/4/2006
Msg: 83
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I don't know how to forgive someone and I think it's killing me a little bit day by day...
Posted: 8/16/2007 11:43:26 PM
First you stop and breathe. I am going through this with a couple of people in my life and I think what it boils down to is that you need to accept that he is never going to be who you want him to be, and also realize that this requires concerted effort and it does not happen overnight. Embracing the notion that he did not hurt you intentionally (even if he did) and that as the first response indicated you should pity him for his empty relationships, is helpful. My two individuals that I find it hard to forgive and live with are my mother and my X; the former would not know unconditional love if it bit her on the butt and the latter continues to be verbally and emotionally abusive, caring little for what he says to or in front of the children that causes them pain.

I was recently reading Plan B by Anne Lamott. In it she uses the analogy of untangling a gold chain with respect to forgiveness, how one tends to first tug at it and actually make the situation worse, but then uses a pin to create just the tiniest bit of space in the gnarled mess and you sort of work at it from there, creating more space and before you know it, the knot is gone. In short, you find something redeeming about the individual and go from there. In your case, he gave you his son, one of the greatest gifts you have ever had. There were two other things that were helpful as well.

Lamott spoke to some inmates at San Quentin about writing and cited several reasons for doing so. Jesus told people that whatever you did to the least of his people, you did to him, and Jesus hung with the least of people to help them. 'God forgives the unlovable and the unforgivable.' A lightbulb went off for me with regard to my mother. I should forgive her because it does not matter whether she deserves it or not, it is the right thing to do. I don't think it ever occurred to me that I was judging my mother because my feelings arose from her hurtful behavior. Lamott's father also worked with prisoners throughout her childhood teaching them to read and write, without making moral judgments and he addressed them with respect and kindness because his philosophy was 'Don't be an ***hole.' And that advice is good too.

It dawned on me that if my mother was a stranger, I could find some redeeming quality about her but because I still want her to be the mother I want instead of the person she is, I allow myself to become upset really for no reason. She will not change. I believe she withdrew her offer of help because I did not within a couple days of awaking from the coma begin thanking her profusely for being at my bedside. If almost losing me five months ago did not motivate her to think more about me than herself, nothing will. I also got so wound up in my hurt that I did not notice that I was really in no worse a position starting this summer than I was last year for different reasons and I was essentially worrying for nothing. If she were someone else, it would not have mattered so much whether it was an issue of means or if there was a good reason for what she did, I would have accepted that it was her decision and that would have been the end of it. So, if the behavior is to be forgiven, the reason that someone acts like a jerk is immaterial, i.e. if they have some reason that makes the behavior at least logical or not.

With my X, he will not put the children before himself and he tortures them in order to hurt me. In neither case is anything I say or do going to change either of those people. The only thing I can do is change how I react to things and particularly with my X, if I do not show my children forgiveness, they will be unable to find it themselves and at 43, they may still be allowing their parent to wreak havoc with their emotions. I do not want them to live that way and the way they learn the most is by watching us. You have to find the positive to everything. In your case, let's create a scenario. If he pays his child support but you know it is only because he is forced to by the state, you need to forget the second half of the reality and just focus on that he pays his child support. Simple. Maybe he should do more like pay for little league registration fees, or uniforms, or the list goes on, but you must ignore that.

In my case, my X often picks up things at the grocery store he knows the kids like and since they are rarely at his apartment, he leaves it here for them. This saves me money on groceries every month and is in addition to his support. Now, I can focus on what he doesn't do and be upset or what he does and refrain from being upset. In my mother's case, she did help me to some extent and things would have been much more difficult if she had not. If I had noticed earlier on that I was basically in the same place this time last year, I could have avoided a couple of months nursing anger and resentment.

You consciously choose to see the good rather than the bad, the same as you did when you were head over heels with the man, but without allowing him the ability to continue to hurt you. You have no vested interested in who or what he is other than your child's father. You cannot impact the father that he is so you can only make sure that you offset any bad influence the man is and make sure that your son sees a better way to live from you. If your son tells you things or you otherwise find out, you have the ability to counter it, so what real damage can the man do? In addition, you do two things by allowing him to upset you. You diminish the energy and other reserves you have to be a good mom and you gain absolutely nothing by it.

You also set boundaries. If he makes comments that upset you when you are transferring custody of your son, you make sure that those meetings are as short as possible. If he tends to aggravate you on the telephone, ask that communication about your son be accomplished via e-mail. He can still aggravate you, but you are not sucked into an argument. You have time to let the aggravation wash over you and then choose, like water, to let it fall off. With the swearing, for example, you tell him once that you would appreciate it in the future if there is something about which he knows that you feel strongly, that you would appreciate it if he did not tell your son things contradictory to what you are trying to instill. You have the conversation once.

This avoids allowing yourself to get sucked into pointless arguments, which feed the anger and resentment that keep you from forgiving. In John 8 when the woman is about to be stoned by the Pharisees for adultery, Jesus is doodling in the sand. He does not allow himself to get sucked into the legal justification for their action or to be amid the mob willing to help kill her. By the time Jesus notes that whoever is without sin should case the first stone, those that wanted to kill her are no longer in the mob. He refused to interact on a level of hate and madness. You cannot make your X behave like a grown-up and/or do what is best for your son so you state your peace and then make sure that your son recognizes why following his father's advice in this instance would be bad for him. You don't deal with the irrational and hateful X, you deal with your loving son by telling him professionally, when he starts liking girls, etc., that cussing shows a lack of intelligence. Ultimately our children make these decisions for themselves regardless of who is the poor influence.

You also need to recognize that you have to do this for your son. YOU HAVE TO. If he isn't already doing it, some day your child will ask you or himself, wtf is wrong with this guy endorsing swearing, for example. If he asks, you give him the best explanation for why his father is a bonehead and that means being honest but trying to put a positive spin on it while illustrating why you do not agree. You tell him that his father loves him in his own way and he needs to learn what to listen to and what would be better for him to ignore just as he might with a friend or teacher. I tell my children to try to ignore their father when he is acting like (x), to remember that he loves you in his own way, and to pray that he improves with time and becomes a better father. Your son is stuck with this turkey for life and if he cannot embrace the good of his father and ignore the bad, he will experience emotional turmoil at every occasion that should be happy. Graduation, marriage, births, birthdays.

If he resents his father, all will be tinged with this, even if he chooses to no longer have anything to do with him. This is what my daughter currently wrestles with, that she can't just walk away from him. In the long run, although her father causes her pain, she will be able to live with herself because she has done the right thing and tried to be a good daughter whether he deserved it or not. Maybe the first step is recognizing that this is a must do, not a should do and again, start with the good things and create some room in the knot, and continue to work at it. You will backslide, and want to kill him, but the key is making those moments as fleeting as possible. And you must also forgive yourself for having them and for choosing him in the first place and saddling your son with him for life. You made the decisions with the information you had at the time and you made a positive change when many would have remained in the relationship. You also need to remember that you fell in love with who he wanted you to see, not who he was; happens to the best of us. You will eventually find that there is little he can do that will really get under your skin.
 packagedealx3
Joined: 2/4/2006
Msg: 84
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I don't know how to forgive someone and I think it's killing me a little bit day by day...
Posted: 8/17/2007 12:17:42 AM
Reading your repost 26, one more thing. He is always going to be selfish and irresponsible. You need to think of him like the educably retarded, he is as good as he is going to get. Provide as many good quality male role models as you can, be the best mom as you can, your child will be fine. He has one good parent, that will be enough.
 peterjames23
Joined: 8/28/2007
Msg: 88
I don't know how to forgive someone and I think it's killing me a little bit day by day...
Posted: 9/16/2007 5:49:07 PM
To reply to the author: First the obvious. Your child needs to see his parents working together constructivly, even if they're not together, for him to be able to have a successful family himself. The other is, and I hope I have this right, a tough one. I have had a variety of different kinds of relationships. The one that was really hard to get over was the woman I was totally attracted to. Her eyes, her heart(or at least the part I was able to love), her smell, sex! Our chemistry was incredible. problem is, she was a train wreck. She was a liar, a terrible mother, she was jealous of how well I cared for her kids and she resented me and betrayed me over and over and over, but would always beg for me to take her back because she never felt love and passion like she had with me. The red flags were all over the place from the begining, but I thought my love could save the day. I had to eventually make the choice to end it for good, for me and my son, and it was so hard to do. I didn't feel like being with anyone for a long long time afterwards because I really missed her, but I had to realise that the great chemistry I had with her had a lot to do with me, and that I am able to have great chemistry with someone else because I have that energy in me. Life gives you choices and many are VERY difficult to make. Get some counseling and work on your side of the street. Make yourself happy and live the life YOU want. I wouldn't be surprised if when you find your inner joy that your relationship with him becomes civil and easy. There must be something that you miss in him or you wouldn't be having so much resentment. There are plenty of fish in the sea, and when you radiate that inner love of yourself someone will find you, someone better. Do it for you and then for your son. Life is too short for this kind of destructive drama and you'll never forgive yourself if you ruin your son's life over it.
 wodehousefan2
Joined: 9/12/2007
Msg: 95
I don't know how to forgive someone and I think it's killing me a little bit day by day...
Posted: 9/18/2007 12:15:15 PM
It takes time to truly forgive. Ignore the thing as long as you can. Cut off all contact and stay away...perhaps for years. Then, learn to seperate the sin from the sinner. Continue to hate what was done, but slowly forgive the person who did it. It may take a year, or ten, or fifteen, but it can happen. You can forgive, but need to work at it. Getting someone new, and better, into your life will make the process faster, and smoother. Just sitting around pouting about it and pitying youreself, won't do the trick.
 girlygirlforyou
Joined: 3/23/2007
Msg: 97
I don't know how to forgive someone and I think it's killing me a little bit day by day...
Posted: 9/18/2007 9:03:01 PM
Just some food for thought:

Being unable to forgive someone is like drinking poison and expecting it to kill someone else (the person who you can't forgive).
 peterjames23
Joined: 8/28/2007
Msg: 98
I don't know how to forgive someone and I think it's killing me a little bit day by day...
Posted: 9/21/2007 8:23:39 PM
I wanted to say that I assumed that you missed something about him. I guess he could have taken something from you. Arn't these comments from folks wonderful? Some good people here. I wish you all the best in a fulfilling tomorrow! Peter
 OutMind
Joined: 2/13/2007
Msg: 99
I don't know how to forgive someone and I think it's killing me a little bit day by day...
Posted: 9/21/2007 9:02:19 PM
Stop bullshi!ting yourself. You are jealuous, you still love the b@stard, you still want him back in some delusional way. Not in reality. You're mature enough to understand that all the buttons are there and that will never happen, but deep inside you want him back. But here's a question. And you said a lot but you've never said, forgive him for what? What is it that needs to be forgiven? What did he do. You never talked about that and that seems to be your little secret. Until you are able to come open with what that is, there will never be forgiveness. And why? Because you are not letting your own truth to come out.
 tmbmx
Joined: 2/27/2005
Msg: 101
I don't know how to forgive someone and I think it's killing me a little bit day by day...
Posted: 9/22/2007 6:22:19 AM
I was in the same situationa as you and still am to some degree. My ex left me with kids say she did not want to be a wife and mother anymore. Now 5 years later I still have not fully forgiven her and I think part of me never will. I can move with what she has done for me. I think i never will forgive her for what she has done to our kids. Hell it took me 3 1/2 years to start dating LOL. The best advice I have ever been given is "living well is the best revenge". You cant buy happiness. If are living your life as you like that is all that matters. To be honest the more happy I am the more my Ex does not wnat to pay her child support or want to argue over the kids and who has them what weekend. So please by all means find yourself and and make your self happy it will make you a better parent and let you ex know that his new life means nothing to you. He needs to get over his sins and move on to being a better person himself. To be honest I dont think my ex ever will. I know my ex lives with so much guilt she will probly never get over it. I can always hope.
 quietstorm8
Joined: 10/22/2006
Msg: 104
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History
I don't know how to forgive someone and I think it's killing me a little bit day by day...
Posted: 10/28/2007 3:02:00 AM
when we say someone is 'the one' what we
usually mean is this person overstretches ourselves....not necessarily
too good for us but takes all our resources just to survive.

underneath what ppl look for are 'peak' experiences......
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