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Show ALL Forums  > Sports  > New England Patriots 2007-2008      Home login  
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 markes018
Joined: 4/18/2006
Msg: 51
New England Patriots 2007-2008Page 3 of 91    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41)
It's hardly just "Moss or bust". Yes, Caldwell was pretty solid, but would be a 2 or 3 on any other team, at best. Also, Welker is not the only other quality receiver the Pats added that made Caldwell expendable. Donte Stallworth is a former Pro Bowler with great speed, Kelly Washington has superior speed and hands to Caldwell and is a bigger receiver, as well. Gaffney had a great last post-season last year and pre-season this year , and we have Troy Brown and Chad Jackson coming off PUP somewhere in the first 6 weeks (unless one of them goes to the IR). Just a numbers decision.
Let's not forget the two huge drops by Caldwell in the playoffs, one of which would have been a first down on the Pat's last possession, and he even had a chance to score had he caught that ball. I realize that drops happen to everyone, but when there is a high level of talent available at a position, little things make or break you.
 eman07
Joined: 6/30/2006
Msg: 52
New England Patriots 2007-2008
Posted: 9/3/2007 11:12:53 PM

GO BROKEBACKS"

Tell Daniel Graham hello...


and maybe I will tell simeon rice hello too...he is a bronco officially....

hmmm...was I hearing the pats had the best offseason moves?

dre bly...simeon rice...travis henry...graham....

GO BRONCOS....
 AvidArteest
Joined: 2/27/2007
Msg: 53
New England Patriots 2007-2008
Posted: 9/4/2007 7:04:32 AM
Simeon Rice isn't that good anymore... you can have him.

Never did think that Dre Bly was all that good.

Graham was born and raised around Boulder, and he wasn't in the Pats plans... but I do really like him.

Travis Henry needs to feed his 9 kids (from 9 different momma's)... no wonder he fumbles so much.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And as fas as Eyes Wide Shut (Reche Caldwell) goes, who cares?

He wasn't a number 1 wide reciever, but he was forced into the role. He wasn't that good at all... maybe a number 3 at best.

It was a number's game that let him go.

I'm glad that he was let go.

He did play will all of his heart, but, he simply wasn't that good.
 eman07
Joined: 6/30/2006
Msg: 54
New England Patriots 2007-2008
Posted: 9/4/2007 7:34:03 AM

Simeon Rice isn't that good anymore... you can have him.


I guess the same could be said for randy moss...there is a reason nobody wanted him....


Never did think that Dre Bly was all that good.


just an opinion...but if you ask around the league and the people who play against him...he is a pretty good cornerback..put him next to the best cornerback in the nfl...I think he only gets better....

I just find it funny pats fans try to tell everyone how great randy moss is gonna be, but then follow it up with "well he was just cost us a 4th rounder anwyay"...so the excuse is already built in....
 markes018
Joined: 4/18/2006
Msg: 55
New England Patriots 2007-2008
Posted: 9/4/2007 9:39:16 AM
The Pats weren't interested in Rice because they are set at the position, not because he isn't any good. His skills have declined somewhat over the last few years, though.
Though you may end up being right, I don't think you can compare the situations with Rice and Moss. Rice has knee problems and was pushed out by youth (according to Bucs' management). Moss' problems are more related to his personality. I think you would find that a lot of players who played for the Raiders the last few years would have better seasons just BECAUSE they DON'T play for the Raiders any more.
The bottom line is that no one will know who had the better off season until we see how things play out during the season. Comparing players, especially across positions, is pointless. Some will do better or worse dependent upon who they play next to or around, and whether they are a good fit fo the system they play within.
To coin a phrase (lol)...That's why they play the games.....
 eman07
Joined: 6/30/2006
Msg: 56
New England Patriots 2007-2008
Posted: 9/4/2007 9:50:18 AM
agree markes....

My point was that every pickup any other team makes it is not that great, but yet every pick up the pats make it is some smart move that no one could ever make besides billecheck.

If i have to hear how "great" wes welker is gonna be just because he is on the pats im going to yack...If walker would have gone to the browns, pats fans would have not said how good he was gonna be....

Pats fans need to worry about a aging defense that let the colts go up and down on the field in the second half last year....

but again...pats fan will come back with "we have teddy bruski"...how could I forget the most overhyped player in the nfl?......decent player...but not as great as the media and fans would make him out to be.....
 cmsweet
Joined: 2/25/2007
Msg: 57
view profile
History
New England Patriots 2007-2008
Posted: 9/4/2007 2:07:37 PM
Billichek is overated. If Bill Cowher had Tom Brady instead of guys like Niel ODonnell, Kordell Stewart and Tommy Maddux, he would have won 6 SBs.
GO STEELERS!
 eman07
Joined: 6/30/2006
Msg: 58
New England Patriots 2007-2008
Posted: 9/4/2007 3:08:45 PM

Billichek is overated


lets not get out of hand....overrated coaches dont win 3 superbowls no matter who your qb is......


If Bill Cowher had Tom Brady instead of guys like Niel ODonnell, Kordell Stewart and Tommy Maddux, he would have won 6 SBs.


again...lets not get out of hand...a lot of coaches would be better with tom brady. and before you start the bill cowher parade, he did lose three afc championship games at home, I know he got his superbowl, I always thought he was a decent coach.

cmsweet...

dont let your emotions get the best of ya....think before you speak....
 markes018
Joined: 4/18/2006
Msg: 59
New England Patriots 2007-2008
Posted: 9/4/2007 3:43:12 PM
I agree with you eman about Bill B. He knows his stuff, but the organization as a whole has helped to make him great with good drafts, trades and FA signings. I do have to take issue with you making generalized statements about 'pats fans'. No doubt, some Patriot's fans are like a lot of other strictly partisan fans that feel their team can do no wrong. However, if you read closely, you will find some with very objective viewpoints.
Now, to address the 'aging defense'. The aggregate age of the defensive players on the current depth chart is 27 1/2. Even in football terms, that is not old, by any standard. The linebackers do indeed average around thirty, but there are several younger LB's in the mix that will be stepping into major rules, possibly even this year (Rogers, Woods, et al). The D line is amongst the most talented in the league, despite the fact that they are actually the YOUNGEST group in the NFL (average age..25). DB's? Yes, we have Wilson and Harrison (well, not for a few weeks...), but we also have serious young talent in Hobbs (24), Samuel (26), Gay (25), and Sanders (26). Add in the rookie Meriweather (23), and I think you'll find that age is a minor issue for the Pats.
I think I've heard this phrase somewhere....."think before you speak" (sorry, couldn't resist - lol)
 vrobx
Joined: 2/18/2006
Msg: 60
New England Patriots 2007-2008
Posted: 9/4/2007 4:22:51 PM
I agree. I give St Bill his due for his accomplishments in NE but let's not get too carried away with his praise...after all, he didn't exactly knock 'em dead in Cleveland.
Also, let's not forget that the only reason Tom Brady became s superstar was because Drew Bled-Slow got hurt. Otherwise he'd still either be holding a clipboard in NE or winning Super Bowls somewhere else. The Pats lucked into Brady the same way the Rams lucked into Kurt Warner in '99.
But that's the way it goes sometimes. All teams need a lil luck to go their way now and again. I still respect that organization....I just have serious reservations about acquiring a guy like Randy Moss. Understand where I am coming from and that I've been through a very similar situations. I am from Texas and remember quite well how the Cowboy fans here suddenly (after years of badmouthing him) decided that TO would put the star on his helmet and become somebody he's not.
TO is TO. A change of uniforms don't change who he is!
Guess what?
Randy Moss is Randy Moss. Changing uniforms don't change that either.
I hope for his sake he doesn't screw this opportunity up and, so far, he has been a much better Patriot than TO was a Cowboy in his first preseason with his new team. And, just maybe, Randy won't OD or call St Bill "grandma"....
Maybe now that you know where I live and what I have seen with our state's team, you might understand better why I really really really don't trust a Randy Moss...
 AvidArteest
Joined: 2/27/2007
Msg: 61
New England Patriots 2007-2008
Posted: 9/4/2007 5:45:55 PM
"it's almost humorous the way no team can pick up guys except the pats. if the pats would have picked up rice those people would be planning a super bowl parade, but since they didn't he's a bum. as for the built in excuses, that's par for the course. i said it once and i'll say it again those people can smell the faint odor of disappointment comming from foxboro."

I never knew that I said anything over the top about Randy Moss... I actually don't even think that he is that good anymore. But, if he is good... then I won't complain.

Look up my past posts if you don't agree.

Champ Bailey is the closest version of the modern NFL, to be a shut down corner. No other corner is really close. Do I think that he is the best ever? NO WAY... but, he is very good. The Broncos stole him away from the Redskins imo.

As far as the Fish go, Jason Taylor is as good as they get. Ditto Zach Thomas. They gave up on Wes Welker, which is good by me... he is a stick of dynamite. The Pats really need him.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Billichek is overated. If Bill Cowher had Tom Brady instead of guys like Niel ODonnell, Kordell Stewart and Tommy Maddux, he would have won 6 SBs.
GO STEELERS!"

You simply don't understand the game of football by saying this vapid tripe. You can't even spell his name correctly... do you really think that Belichick/Pioli would draft such idiots as Stewart? The Steelers know how to draft their linebackers... but it falls off the chart after that.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Rice would be a bad pickup for the Pats simply because he isn't a 3-4 D-end. He would be better as a pass rushing linebacker... if anything. In his prime (I guess that would be when he was a Buc, NOT as a cardinal), he was dominant.

 AvidArteest
Joined: 2/27/2007
Msg: 62
New England Patriots 2007-2008
Posted: 9/4/2007 6:04:46 PM
"Also, let's not forget that the only reason Tom Brady became s superstar was because Drew Bled-Slow got hurt. Otherwise he'd still either be holding a clipboard in NE or winning Super Bowls somewhere else. The Pats lucked into Brady the same way the Rams lucked into Kurt Warner in '99. "

Bledsoe was on his way out, the injury simply faded him out faster.

T.O. was Jerky Jones decision, not the Tuna's... count on that one.
 lakeshorewalk
Joined: 6/4/2007
Msg: 63
New England Patriots 2007-2008
Posted: 9/4/2007 6:18:43 PM
I'm sorry fellas, But just so you know, I can totally respect them (mainly because of Mister Brady) But the Dolphins are going all the way!!!

Team looks like a solid line up!
 AvidArteest
Joined: 2/27/2007
Msg: 64
New England Patriots 2007-2008
Posted: 9/4/2007 6:59:53 PM
A Dolphin HOMER chick... hey, they were once good.

A long time ago...

I guess...
 lakeshorewalk
Joined: 6/4/2007
Msg: 65
New England Patriots 2007-2008
Posted: 9/4/2007 7:02:40 PM
hey hey hey.. we have John Beck and we WILL win. ...
 AvidArteest
Joined: 2/27/2007
Msg: 66
New England Patriots 2007-2008
Posted: 9/4/2007 7:14:06 PM
You might win 1 against the Pats.

It usually goes that way...

Isn't Ginn just a good returner?

I could be wrong, but I DOUBT IT...
 slysterling
Joined: 1/9/2007
Msg: 67
New England Patriots 2007-2008
Posted: 9/4/2007 7:20:20 PM

A Dolphin HOMER chick... hey, they were once good.
A long time ago...
I guess

That's kind of a funny statement coming from a guy that cheers for a team that made it to the playoffs 5 times in it's first 37 years of operations.
...actually 38 since it was the end of the '01 season when the got back into playoff action.
No wonder Bill is St. Bill in foxborough after that abysmal display of decades of incompetence. That team used to be the laughing stock of the league. Once a decade they were good for a playoff appearance. But then again even a broken watch is right twice a day.
Enjoy your time near the top. It seldom lasts much longer than a decade, then I guess the good old Patsies will be back..
Go Fish..Joey Porter...eat 'em raw!
 markes018
Joined: 4/18/2006
Msg: 68
New England Patriots 2007-2008
Posted: 9/4/2007 8:19:56 PM
Sly
Don't know where you got your numbers, but they are incorrect. The BOSTON Patriots entered the AFL in 1960 (The team became the New England Patriots in 1971). They first made the post season in 1963. There was a 13 year stretch from then until they made the post season again in 1976, which was six years after the AFL/NFL merger. Since that time, there were playoff appearances in '78, '82, '85 (made SB), '86, '94, '96(another SB), and '98. That means that the Patriots made the playoffs 4 of the 6 years preceding Belichick's arrival in 2000, including a SB appearance. That makes NINE playoff appearances before Bill came, not 5. If you exclude the Boston Patriot years of the old AFL, it's still 8 appearances, in 11 fewer years.
 slysterling
Joined: 1/9/2007
Msg: 69
New England Patriots 2007-2008
Posted: 9/4/2007 8:35:59 PM
ya your right markes. i thought there was something wrong with those numbers i was looking at. I stand corrected. i remember shaky legs grogan taking them to the Super Bowl against the vaunted Monsters of the Midway where they got soundly trounced, like a lot of teams did that year to the Bears.

Raymond Berry was the coach then and the Big tuna got them back to the other bowl appearance, but he himself screwed that one up distracting his club from the game with all the talk of him leaving town after the game.

Anyways, i think this will be their last real good kick at the can this year. They're run may be over already and we just don't realize it yet. The game in San diego was a classic for the ages,. Exciting football.

They've shown cracks thru the whole run over the years but Bilichik seems to find a way to mend the cracks. If these two early defensive manpower losses set the tone for this team, then they could be in for a long tough season. A couple of more manpower losses and coach bill could be scrambling. The Dolphins are going to play well this year. They're kind of in the same boat as the Pats in the sense both clubs are getting a little long in the tooth in some key positions. Dolphins will take the East this year.

ps. the Boston patriots won the old AFL championship in 65
 AvidArteest
Joined: 2/27/2007
Msg: 70
New England Patriots 2007-2008
Posted: 9/4/2007 8:37:03 PM
"That team used to be the laughing stock of the league. "

Yep, just like the fish are now going... MANY years.

"Go Fish..Joey Porter...eat 'em raw!"

Good luck with that... and the fish will be battling the jills, for the worst in the East.
 eman07
Joined: 6/30/2006
Msg: 71
New England Patriots 2007-2008
Posted: 9/5/2007 8:54:30 AM

Now, to address the 'aging defense'. The aggregate age of the defensive players on the current depth chart is 27 1/2. Even in football terms, that is not old, by any standard. The linebackers do indeed average around thirty, but there are several younger LB's in the mix that will be stepping into major rules, possibly even this year (Rogers, Woods, et al). The D line is amongst the most talented in the league, despite the fact that they are actually the YOUNGEST group in the NFL (average age..25). DB's? Yes, we have Wilson and Harrison (well, not for a few weeks...), but we also have serious young talent in Hobbs (24), Samuel (26), Gay (25), and Sanders (26). Add in the rookie Meriweather (23), and I think you'll find that age is a minor issue for the Pats.
I think I've heard this phrase somewhere....."think before you speak" (sorry, couldn't resist - lol)


Isnt this the same defense that colts played against last year?...the same defense in the second half indy didnt have to punt?....the same defense that had a 21-3 lead?....the same defense that the colts went up and down the field on in the second half?.....
 AvidArteest
Joined: 2/27/2007
Msg: 72
New England Patriots 2007-2008
Posted: 9/5/2007 9:56:33 AM
"yep, those FIVE trophies say exactly that"

I'm not taking anything away from the Steelers, but how long ago was the first 4 again????

I'm talking within the last few years, to keep it modern...

Heck, Joe Gibbs is still one of the best coaches, but recently... what has the guy done?

He has done NOTHING...

Times change, they always do.

Belichick seems too have a decent grasp of the game, past and present (hopefully for the future as well).
 slysterling
Joined: 1/9/2007
Msg: 73
New England Patriots 2007-2008
Posted: 9/5/2007 10:07:56 AM

Isn't Ginn just a good returner?

Apparently this is why the Dolphins grabbed him over the QB in Cleveland.

The biggest question about Miami Dolphin football is why did they draft Ted Ginn Jr. when, as a rookie receiver, he may not impact games?
The reason is that when head coach Cam Cameron looks at the overall picture of his team he sees a very good defence, an unknown regarding special teams and an offense that needs a lot of work.

The Dolphins' D finished 4th overall, 8th against the run, 5th against the pass and 5th in points allowed. Age is an issue as four starters have 10 years or more of experience but regardless, Miami should have a good defense again.

So, the next question for Cameron is what is the next challenge, offense or special teams?
Offense takes time, sometimes a lot of time. So Cameron, by picking Ginn, improves the return game and all of a sudden there are two/thirds of his team he can feel good about. Playing good special teams is about effort more than technical execution like offense is.

http://www.tsn.ca/nfl/feature/?fid=388
This guy also picks the fish to finish 4th which is fine by me since he went roughly 40 games under 500 on his picks last year. Can't even begin to imagine why TSN kept him on another year. Since he's picked them 4th, I'm happy, cuz of all places, it won't be that one.

Eat 'em raw comes from going to Ti Cat games as a kid.
Oss kee wee wee,
Oss kee wa wa,
Holy mackinaw,
TiCats.....
..................Eat 'em raw.
Rahhhh
lol

Pigskin Pete used to go around the stadium at field level and get the various sections chanting the Ticats cheer. back in the day when Steeltown was a football dynasty. Soory. Reverted back to childhood memories there for a bit.
 AvidArteest
Joined: 2/27/2007
Msg: 74
New England Patriots 2007-2008
Posted: 9/5/2007 10:11:01 AM
"Isnt this the same defense that colts played against last year?...the same defense in the second half indy didnt have to punt?....the same defense that had a 21-3 lead?....the same defense that the colts went up and down the field on in the second half?....."

The linebacker's ARE getting old... no denying that. This is the same defense as last year, for the most part. It HAS worked well enough for a few rings... you have to admit it. If they are so bad, then explain the 3 rings as of recent. Brady, Vinitraitor, and Branch (among others) all had important parts... but the defense did play on the field also. Last year, the Colts discovered that they had a tight end in the second half of the game. When they started using him, the linebackers couldn't compensate for him. I would have to think that Belichick noticed this.

Belichick hardly EVER drafts linebackers. He will usually draft a defensive end, then convert them to a linebacker. He likes to sign experienced linebackers instead (Vrabel, Colvin, Thomas, Seau, Phifer, Cox, etc.).

He also usually drafts defensive tackles to become defensive ends (Seymour, Warren).

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The first Pats ring, it was prolly just smoke and mirrors. They had very little talent on that team. They had the momentum though. I think that when they went to the playoffs, every team overlooked them. Especially the Rams. They of all teams should have seen this coming, because they were in a similar vein (coming out of nowhere, Trent Green going down via Rodney Harrison in the pre-season, no name qb working his mojo, etc.). Fairly similar for the situation.

Belichick has a knack to draft d-lineman. He is one of the best for finding talent there.

Steelers have a strength for drafting linebackers... they have to be one of the best at it.

Broncos always seem too find runningbacks/o-line. They have to be the best at chop blocking as well ;-)

 markes018
Joined: 4/18/2006
Msg: 75
New England Patriots 2007-2008
Posted: 9/5/2007 2:07:40 PM
Eman
No, it is NOT the same defense. That defense did not have Adalius Thomas. Seau, Wilson and Harrison were out. Hobbs was playing injured. There were no young, talented LB's backing up the old guys.
As far as the 21-3 lead...that was primarily because the offense moved the ball and scored in the first half. No defense stands up to the Colts if they are on the field over 20 minutes of the second half. The failure in the second half was by the OFFENSE, not the D. Who do you think wins that game if the Colts defense is on the field for 20 minutes? Even then, the Pats were within a first down of keeping the the Colts from getting the ball back in time to win. They actually HAD the first down (and a possible TD), but Reche Caldweel dropped a pass without any contact.
BTW....sorry to keep hounding about facts, BUT, the Colts actually punted TWICE in the second half.
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