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 eman07
Joined: 6/30/2006
Msg: 101
New England Patriots 2007-2008Page 5 of 91    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41)
wow....

You mean to tell me that st bill...the god of all gods...and the golden boy of all qb's had someone in the organzation cheating?...what?...you mean they had someone on the sideline filming?.....

It will be intresting to see what this causes....i mean...did you realy beat the jets?..or were you stealing signals?...ahhhh for a pats hater like myself...this is music to my ears......

pats are cheaters!!!!!.....

But it doesnt matter when you play my broncos...cause we own that ASS!!!!!!!
 SassySky
Joined: 7/28/2007
Msg: 102
New England Patriots 2007-2008
Posted: 9/10/2007 2:39:02 PM
Oh my beloved Patriots all the way
 slysterling
Joined: 1/9/2007
Msg: 103
New England Patriots 2007-2008
Posted: 9/11/2007 12:08:33 AM
could be draft picks

"""The league's competition committee could conduct a conference call about the incident, which violates NFL policy, and ultimately recommend a penalty that could cost the Patriots a future draft pick or picks if it verifies that the team was spying on the Jets.

"It's not their first time," a member of the committee, who did not wish to be identified, said.

In fact, Green Bay Packers president Bob Harlan confirmed a similar incident that occurred when the Patriots played at Lambeau Field last Nov. 19. The same cameraman who was questioned by NFL security on Sunday was also the one whom the Packers removed from the sideline and escorted from the field during their 2006 game, according to Packers security official Doug Collins.

"From what I can remember, he had quite a fit when we took him out," Harlan said. "We had gotten word before the game that they [the Patriots] did this sort of thing, so we were looking for it." ""
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3012989
 markes018
Joined: 4/18/2006
Msg: 104
New England Patriots 2007-2008
Posted: 9/11/2007 4:50:28 AM
What comments do you want, filthy?; that they MAY have done something wrong? Why don't we wait until the league decides if a rule was broken or not. I seem to recall several of these references a couple of years ago with a couple of other teams. At least one was deemed to have been a rules violation. All the league did then was some 'official denouncement' of the action.
I've never quite understood the hullabaloo about stealing signals. They are made in plain sight. How do you 'steal' something you can openly see? Even if I know what the signal is, it doesn't mean I understand your symbols. By the time someone catalogs all of the patterns, etc; you MIGHT have a minor advantage by the fourth quarter, IF you have interpreted them correctly.
If the league says they did something wrong, they will be disciplined accordingly. Teams do things to try to gain advantage all the time.
 AvidArteest
Joined: 2/27/2007
Msg: 105
New England Patriots 2007-2008
Posted: 9/11/2007 6:59:25 AM
Every team in the league does this and the only reason a handful of teams have tried to make a big deal out of it in the Pats case is because of jealousy. Miami bought a tape of Tom Brady's audible calls before our game with them last year. The JETS knew this guy was there taping. It obviously didn't start to bother them until they were getting manhandled, and it had nothing to do with coaches signals - it was mismatched talent. Anyone who wasn't delusional knew this wasn't going to be close. But that organization and its fans and refuse to own their own shortcomings.

Every team in the league does this...

I was just talking with a friend who is trainer for a college team.
He says stealing signals is an art. ALL teams do it. Some college teams
have as many as 20 extra people with sideline credentials. They are
there with an assignment and a note pad and are gathering play calling
information.

NFL is no different .... it is part of the game. Camera or Notebook ...
makes no difference teams are trying to capture play calling information
and it is a sophisticated information gathering process.
 AvidArteest
Joined: 2/27/2007
Msg: 106
New England Patriots 2007-2008
Posted: 9/11/2007 7:41:59 AM
Come to think of it, the Pats should do some video research to see how the other teams are doing it.

Parcells commented that he first started seeing this practice in the 50's with baseball teams.

Tampering is a common thing for awhile now.

 eman07
Joined: 6/30/2006
Msg: 107
New England Patriots 2007-2008
Posted: 9/11/2007 9:52:33 AM
so everyone does it.....but the pats are the only ones who get caught?....

one of two things...they are the only ones doing it....

or....they are the only ones dumb enough to get caught.....so which one is it?
 markes018
Joined: 4/18/2006
Msg: 108
New England Patriots 2007-2008
Posted: 9/11/2007 10:10:24 AM
Neither, they AREN'T the only ones getting caught. The league has sent letters to EVERY team in the league over the last few years. Obviously, none of the teams or the league view this as a major problem.
As I said earlier, during the game, it is virtually worthless. For the long term, cumulative effect, everything you would be able to get can be seen on standard NFL films within a day or two of the game. IF the league determines that it was a serious violation, the Pats will be penalized. Even when other teams have been caught, the league has yet to issue any major discpline. This simply supports the impression that the league doesn't think it's a big deal.
There is yet one more possibility. Everyone is doing it, and the Pats don't give a crap about getting caught because they know the league isn't likely to do anything about it.
EVERYBODY rolls through stop signs, for example, but how many get tickets? If you knew that a cop wasn't likely to ticket you, would come to a complete stop anyway? After all, rolling through the stop sign IS illegal.
 irregularguy
Joined: 5/21/2007
Msg: 109
New England Patriots 2007-2008
Posted: 9/11/2007 10:23:41 AM
I'm a Vikings fan(sob), that doesn't give a crap about the Jets or Patriots(my pre-season pick to win it all).

as an amateur football coach I can tell you this. IT IS THE OFFENSE'S JOB TO CONCEAL SIGNALS!! the defense has every RIGHT to steal them if it all possible. If teams are so freakin worried about it....run the plays in!!

If the Pats or any other team get penalized for this, it would be a huge injustice to football everywhere
 vrobx
Joined: 2/18/2006
Msg: 110
New England Patriots 2007-2008
Posted: 9/11/2007 11:28:28 AM
I'm seeing a contradiction here in basic common sense.
This whole thing is..at least in my opinion...a risk/reward issue: Do the rewards you can possibly gain outweigh the risks of sanctions you might face?
If you listen to the Pats fans on this thread, you would probably come to the conclusion that ..no..there is nothing at all to gain by 'spying' yet, according to the Pats fans "every team is doing it." Now, why would every single team participate in a controversial activity that could result in possible...even if minor...sanctions levied against their organization, if said activity produced zero advantage for the team committing the infraction.
Common sense says that they wouldn't.
There has to be something more to this than meets the eye if, as you say, every team is doing it...either that or no team in the NFL is run by anyone with a lick of common sense.
Things that make you go "hmmm".....
 eman07
Joined: 6/30/2006
Msg: 111
New England Patriots 2007-2008
Posted: 9/11/2007 12:39:34 PM
Because pats fans think there team does no wrong, and if they admit they got CAUGHT...then that would admit they are wrong....

I will say it over and over again...pats are a good enough team not to do what they were doing...but the end result is they got caught...yes everyone might be doing it according to pats fans...but the pats got caught...

geez...just admit it pats fan...my goodness....its not gonna take away that your one of the best teams in the afc....
 markes018
Joined: 4/18/2006
Msg: 112
New England Patriots 2007-2008
Posted: 9/11/2007 4:08:03 PM
Eman-
Since you insist on lumping EVERY Patriot's fan into one, all inclusive species called 'patsfans', then I'll answer accordingly. WE already stated that IF the league rules there WAS a violation, the Pats WILL be punished. IF not they WON'T.
Pretty simple, really.
Filthy-
The FACT that most, if not all, teams do some form of intercepting signals is not "shooting from the hip bullshit". If it were, why would the NFL have conducted multiple LEAGUE-WIDE investigations over the last 10 years? One NFL official stated, "this has been an issue since the 50's, affecting every NFL team . We (the NFL) are constantly monitoring this and any other means that a team may attempt in order to gain a competitve advantage." Hmmmm, the 50's? I guess the Pats didn't start it then, huh?
Why do it, if it's not going to give you a major advantage? BECAUSE YOU CAN. It is part of the thousand things teams and coaches toy with to find ANY little thing that MIGHT help (remember ballet lessons and pantyhose?). It is also a part of the mental game between coaches. If someone THINKS you have an unfair advantage, guess what....they are already right, even if it is a hoax.
One last time....IF it was a violation, the Pats will be punished. I sincerely doubt it will be severe. The NFL has been messing with it for over 50 years and spent considerable money investigating it recently. If it was a considered a huge problem, there would be far more publicity than there is and much stiffer consequences.
Once again, you throw out generalized statements without doing your homework. THAT'S the problem I have with your arguments. I fully accept your right to disagree; it's actually FUN! But if you are going to use terms like 'shoot from the hip bullshit', look in the mirror..first.
 markes018
Joined: 4/18/2006
Msg: 113
New England Patriots 2007-2008
Posted: 9/11/2007 4:12:21 PM
SOOOOO, 'patsfans'....

What do you think the defense will try to do to contain LT?

I feel that there will be an attempt to make SD into a one-dimensional offense. I would think that might entail loading up the box to stop him, and make Rivers beat man-to-man coverages downfield. I think our DB's will be fine. The issue in man-to-man then becomes Gates. This might be a key game for Adalius Thomas, since he has been used by the Ravens in the past for exactly that purpose.
 markes018
Joined: 4/18/2006
Msg: 114
New England Patriots 2007-2008
Posted: 9/11/2007 5:03:18 PM
Actually, filthy, the 'Pats didn't start it' comment was in reference to a statement made in this thread indicating that the Patriots WERE the ONLY ones doing it.

My 'patsfan' reference is to eman for lumping all Patriots fans as if we were 'mind-melded' and incapable of independent thought. I do my homework when I post. I base my references upon real data, unless I state that what I am saying is MY opinion.

Your 'shoot from the hip bullshit' comment IS a generalization, and incorrect in terms of whether other teams are, and have been, using this and other tactics that are violations.
I don't believe I understand your reference to re-reading the 'every team in the league does it' line. I agree....at least most do. That was included in the quote of an NFL official.
BTW...We are all 'editorializing', since that would be making opinionated comments on a given subject. 'Editing' would be an entirely different matter.

So, how do YOU think the Pats should stop LT - lol?
 markes018
Joined: 4/18/2006
Msg: 115
New England Patriots 2007-2008
Posted: 9/11/2007 8:08:46 PM
Have to agree with you about LT.

I guess what I don't understand about the disbelief that 'every team in the league does it' is that it is not my OPINION (though I agree), it is a quote from an NFL official. PERHAPS, he has actual KNOWLEDGE of the situation? It is TRUE, it is NOT new. It is simply more in the media than before. Is it not also possible that it is news simply BECAUSE it's the Patriots? Honestly, would we be having this discussion if we were discussing the Raiders? NOBODY would care.
Can we now simply agree to disagree, and move on?
BTW, for the record...the league commissioner has now confirmed, based upon viewing the tapes, that they were, indeed, tapes of the Jets signal. Some form of discipline will be forthcoming. They broke the rules, they got caught, and now they will pay.
Does anybody believe they beat the Jets because they may have figured out their defensive signals? Puhleeeze.....
 AvidArteest
Joined: 2/27/2007
Msg: 116
New England Patriots 2007-2008
Posted: 9/11/2007 8:45:52 PM
eman is a meathead if he thinks that this sort of stuff doesn't happen.

Gee, am I wrong to think that your brokebacks didn't cheat on the salary cap a few years ago???? A 3rd round pick they had to cough up. CHEATERS...

The Dolphins were caught last year doing it. Slap on the wrists... CHEATERS...

Every team is doing it, just reality folks... reality. CHEATERS...

They all cheat to some extent. If you don't think so, then live with the veil over your eyes... sheeple.

" think that sayin "every team in the league does it " is not only a generalization, but a lie."

Living a sheltered life does wonders for your sense of reality...
 markes018
Joined: 4/18/2006
Msg: 117
New England Patriots 2007-2008
Posted: 9/11/2007 8:57:40 PM
The NFL official's name was Fred, he's from Hoboken, NJ. His mother breast fed him until he was 9, and his roomate's name is Iorg....geez.
Can we say 'ad nauseum'?
 AvidArteest
Joined: 2/27/2007
Msg: 118
New England Patriots 2007-2008
Posted: 9/11/2007 8:57:43 PM
I have no idea if the Pats did this, but, it wouldn't surprise me as every team does this to some extent.

The Pats are not perfect... but no one is.

As far as the next game goes,

LT will be the main focal point for the defense (duh).

It will be a great game, one of the main games of the year.
 markes018
Joined: 4/18/2006
Msg: 119
New England Patriots 2007-2008
Posted: 9/11/2007 9:00:16 PM
They did it...see my post #151

I think it WILL be a great game, probably similar to last year's playoff game. Pretty tough test this early.
 AvidArteest
Joined: 2/27/2007
Msg: 120
New England Patriots 2007-2008
Posted: 9/11/2007 9:10:04 PM
Here is something to ponder as well: how can a team be cheating by recording the opposing team's sideline if the game is being telecast?

There would be at least a dozen cameras aimed at various parts of the stadium, not to mention the hundreds (possibly thousands) of fan videos that make it onto youtube.

Think about this for a second...

-------------------------------------------------------

Mark Shlereth whose only claim to fame (as an average offensive lineman) was blocking for John Elway and Terrell Davis when they won two Super Bowls by cheating on the salary cap by paying those two guys $29M in deferred, off the books compensation...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A28969-2004Sep17.html
 AvidArteest
Joined: 2/27/2007
Msg: 121
New England Patriots 2007-2008
Posted: 9/11/2007 9:43:11 PM
Here is yet another link for ya all:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2696227

John Clayton quotes:

"Teams are always trying to steal signs and signals off other teams. That's just football. "

Q: What will be the longterm effect on Belichick and the Patriots?

A: "Although this is embarrassing, you can't take away what this franchise can do. They may have the best team in football. Robert Kraft is one of the league's best owners. The team has three Super Bowl rings and a great chance to get a fourth. Other great organizations have paid penalties for violating league rules. The Broncos lost a draft choice for violating the salary cap with John Elway (they actually were busted TWICE for CHEATING). The Steelers once had to forfeit a third-round draft choice for working out in shoulder pads in the offseason. The Patriots may lose a draft choice or two. And whether or not the Patriots videotaped the Jets' defensive signals, Belichick won't be any less of a coach."

Do I need to further my point(s)?

--------------------

Teams will always steal signals one way or another regardless of the punishment. Each team is allowed two endzone cameras and 3 box cameras. Everyone is doing this, they just weren't stupid enough to put someone on the sidelines. Jeremy Green from espn radio mentioned this tonight and laughed about it. He basically said when he was an assistant working for whatever team he worked for this was common practice and had also mentioned from the coaches box that the camera can zoom into the coaches faces perfectly. Whatever it took to get the edge.

--------------------

Just a conspiracy for all of the teams that are jealous of the Pats success. Mangina and the Jets would be at the forefront of them all...

I was wondering how the NFL would deal with our great team having all these picks - now I know.
 markes018
Joined: 4/18/2006
Msg: 122
New England Patriots 2007-2008
Posted: 9/12/2007 7:21:40 AM
Well, it is increasingly apparent that this is becoming nothing but a **** fight (I am referring to both sides of the issue). NOBODY seems interested in facts or real data. After trying numerous times to turn it back to a Patriots football thread, I give up.
If anyone wants to post about the team or the games, I will probably start a new thread, or send my email addy to your profile, so we can discuss those items.
 AvidArteest
Joined: 2/27/2007
Msg: 123
New England Patriots 2007-2008
Posted: 9/12/2007 9:19:10 AM
The Pats are in a situation that is pretty mired up. This is the only reason that I'm still on the "cheating" issue. I think that it's because of Mangina and the jealous Jests. They were getting their asses royally kicked, and they wanted to get back somehow.

---------------------------------------------------

Tiki and Ronde Barber: "Everyone does it and everyone knows it"

On their "Barber Shop" show on Sirius NFL radio last night said that that every team has someone who's job it is to try to steal the other team's signals and that everyone in the league knows it is going on. They said they don't know if everyone video tapes it, but they were kinda surprised about the reaction since the Jets were probably doing a similiar thing to the Pats but just wasn't caught.
 AvidArteest
Joined: 2/27/2007
Msg: 124
New England Patriots 2007-2008
Posted: 9/12/2007 9:26:44 AM
"this is a new england patriots thread. am i right? i had started a " national football league 2007" sometime back. but hey you know that cause you patsfans " do your homework" you tell me where i'm straying off the patriots topic. facts? data? because john clayton said it?. i want to know if the d-lineman story has any grain of truth or if anyone else has heard it???"

Quit lumping all of us together Buckwheat.
Are you totally inept at using your computer? Can't you research this stuff?
You have a head, use it...
 eman07
Joined: 6/30/2006
Msg: 125
New England Patriots 2007-2008
Posted: 9/12/2007 10:12:08 AM

but they were kinda surprised about the reaction since the Jets were probably doing a similiar thing to the Pats but just wasn't caught.


This brings me back to my original point.....I pretty sure everyone does it....

BUT...either one of two things with the pats

1. They are the only ones dumb enough to get caught....OR
2. They are the only ones doing it.....

Its one or the other dee jay...you pick...
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