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 7941
Joined: 7/22/2013
Msg: 2053
NEW ENGLAND CHEATRIOTSPage 88 of 91    (51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58, 59, 60, 61, 62, 63, 64, 65, 66, 67, 68, 69, 70, 71, 72, 73, 74, 75, 76, 77, 78, 79, 80, 81, 82, 83, 84, 85, 86, 87, 88, 89, 90, 91)

So every time a team sends their offense out on 4th down without any intention of ever snapping the ball, but only to try to draw the defense offside ("force a penalty"), that is considered cheating


I never said that?? But you did.
 hoopsnhikes
Joined: 4/16/2010
Msg: 2054
NEW ENGLAND CHEATRIOTS
Posted: 11/8/2015 8:26:58 PM

just the tip of the ice-berg!


As if "forced penalties" and warm Gatorade weren't enough, the point has recently been brought up that Brady playing for less than market value is really nothing more than an indirect method of cheating, by giving the Patriots an unfair advantage over other teams in terms of the amount of salary cap space they have available to them.


Therefore, the Patriots are playing with a salary cap that is effectively about $7mm higher than the rest of the league. That extra $7mm in effective cap space confers a huge advantage to the Patriots. In a league where every team is thin, $7mm well spent is worth two good players that the team couldn’t otherwise afford, or one extra great player. In a league where there is a very fine line between winning and losing, this is a huge advantage. When your team is already better than the other teams due to the coach and the QB, throw another $7mm of cap space on top of it and all the sudden you have people talking 16-0.
...................................................................
Tom Brady is in a unique position to take a discounted contract – he doesn’t need the incremental money and by definition the championship is worth more to him than the money.

Although taking this kind of discount to try to win a championship is noble in theory, it is also cheating in spirit.

The purpose of a salary cap is NOT to confer a massive competitive advantage to teams with independently wealthy players who can afford to take a discount to try and buy themselves a championship.

https://larrylarry1.wordpress.com/2015/10/19/the-prince-tom-brady-and-the-patriots-machiavellian-spirit-of-cheating/


Moving forward, the obvious fix to make things "fair" for the rest of the league whose quarterbacks are not financially well off is to lower the Patriots' salary cap to put them on an even playing field with everyone else - and maybe that lowered cap space amount could go back to the league in the form of a fine. Of course merely making things fair for everyone is not much of a punishment. A 1 or 2 game suspension for Brady or a lost draft pick might also help to send the message that this won't be tolerated in future contract negotiations.
 vbxtc
Joined: 3/31/2006
Msg: 2055
view profile
History
NEW ENGLAND CHEATRIOTS
Posted: 11/9/2015 8:37:53 PM
No, it means he's willing to take less so the TEAM can do more. It's called being a team player instead of being a greedy **stard out for every dime he can get. Look at the qb's who make more than Brady and how many of them have won much of anything.

Haven't been on here in awhile, and reading all the whiny b*tching above I remember why. The commentary is just sad and pathetic.
 SunshineGirl__
Joined: 10/7/2014
Msg: 2056
NEW ENGLAND CHEATRIOTS
Posted: 11/14/2015 4:44:00 PM

So every time a team sends their offense out on 4th down without any intention of ever snapping the ball, but only to try to draw the defense offside ("force a penalty"), that is considered cheating?


Any team that would use that “strategy” should go back to the Pee Wee league.
 aj7125
Joined: 11/28/2014
Msg: 2057
NEW ENGLAND CHEATRIOTS
Posted: 11/14/2015 7:07:10 PM
"Any team that would use that “strategy” should go back to the Pee Wee league. "

^^^^^^^ ALL teams will use that strategy from time to time on 4th down. The word cheating with this example is ridiculous. It's called football.
 hoopsnhikes
Joined: 4/16/2010
Msg: 2058
NEW ENGLAND CHEATRIOTS
Posted: 11/15/2015 5:29:51 AM

No, it means he's willing to take less so the TEAM can do more. It's called being a team player instead of being a greedy **stard out for every dime he can get. Look at the qb's who make more than Brady and how many of them have won much of anything.

Didn't you see the part where it said Brady was in a unique position to do this? Apparently there are no other wealthy players in the NFL.


Haven't been on here in awhile, and reading all the whiny b*tching above I remember why. The commentary is just sad and pathetic.

Ok, in reality I'm with you on this. As soon as the whiny b*itching escalated to (somehow illegally) "forced penalties", and claims that Goodell is in the Patriots back pocket after all that has transpired the last 9 months (and what is still ongoing), I just assumed that this thread had gone to full tongue in cheek mode.


Any team that would use that “strategy” should go back to the Pee Wee league.

This strategy gets used all the time.


In gridiron football, the hard count is a strategy used by offenses. It is most frequently used to "convert" on fourth down with less than five yards to go. In this situation, the quarterback uses an irregular, accented (thus, the term "hard") cadence for the snap count in the hope that the defense will jump offside, giving the offense the five yards needed to convert the first down.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_count_(gridiron_football)


http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/01/13/peyton-beat-the-chargers-with-hard-counts-and-omaha/

http://www.ninersnation.com/2015/9/29/9413931/the-aaron-rodgers-hard-count-has-been-wildly-productive-and-49ers

http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/179756/chargers-qb-philip-rivers-a-master-of-the-hard-count

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcwest/post/_/id/29086/sam-bradford-master-of-the-hard-count

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/24935498/andrew-lucks-reaction-to-the-bengals-not-biting-on-his-hard-count-is-the-best

It's odd though that you seem to think this sort of mean spirited underhanded trickery is ok for little kids, but not for grown men.
 Yule_liquor
Joined: 12/7/2011
Msg: 2059
NEW ENGLAND CHEATRIOTS
Posted: 11/15/2015 6:21:55 AM
#2244 says


claims that Goodell is in the Patriots back pocket after all that has transpired the last 9 months


If you opened your eyes and and saw how Goodell inexplicably mishandled "deflate-gate"(given the team of lawyers the NFL employs); such that all the charges & penalties got thrown out of court on technicalities; you would then come to see just how Goodell is indeed in the Pts "back pocket".

But keep on believing that the tampering never happened; the "deflator" is a mythical person and that the earth is flat!
Enjoy the games!
 hoopsnhikes
Joined: 4/16/2010
Msg: 2060
NEW ENGLAND CHEATRIOTS
Posted: 11/15/2015 12:36:51 PM

If you opened your eyes and and saw how Goodell inexplicably mishandled "deflate-gate"(given the team of lawyers the NFL employs); such that all the charges & penalties got thrown out of court on technicalities; you would then come to see just how Goodell is indeed in the Pts "back pocket".

But keep on believing that the tampering never happened; the "deflator" is a mythical person and that the earth is flat!
Enjoy the games!


First of all, it's apparent that you haven't followed this story in much detail since the initial lie was leaked by the NFL about 11 out of 12 footballs being 2 psi lower than they should be (which in itself seems like a strange thing to do if Goodell was "in their back pocket). But rather have just been following the click bait sensationalized headlines put out by ESPN on behalf of Goodell. It's like how you say McNally should sue the Patriots for "unlawful termination" when he still works for them, and it was the league that was behind the suspension in the first place. Come on man, do some homework!

Second of all, I never said anything about the Patriots' guilt or lack thereof in deflategate. I was referring to your downright bizarre claim of Goodell being in their back pocket. Of course he mishandled deflategate - that's what happens when you reach your conclusion first, and then try to work backwards to it. I wouldn't consider a lack of any real concrete evidence to be "technicalities." But for the sake of argument, let's assume the Patriots were 100%, beyond a doubt guilty of deflating footballs after they had been checked by the refs, instead of all this "more probable than not" and "generally aware", despite what the science says, stuff.

So if they are guilty, the baseline punishment for tampering with footballs is a $25,000 fine. Even if that were per ball, it's a far cry from the penalties levied against the Patriots. Geez, imagine if Goodell WASN'T in their back pocket! You stated a while back:


If this had happened to some less known player, the penalty would have been far worse"


You mean like the "far worse" penalties that Teddy Bridgewater and Cam Newton received when the Vikings and Panthers were caught altering footballs earlier the same season? Oh wait, they got nothing. Just got told not to do it again. Or how about the Chargers a couple of years back, using towels with a sticky substance on their footballs - and they initially refused to cooperate with the investigation by not handing over the towels - the same refusal to cooperate that was said to play a role in Brady's punishment. The Chargers punishment? A $20,000 fine. Because nobody cared about this sort of thing until the Patriots could possibly be implicated. Then it somehow became the biggest story in the country, and the selective outrage machine got kicked into high gear. The vast discrepancy in how the league handled these similar situations shows your Goodell conspiracy theory doesn't have much merit.

Hope you're enjoying the games!
 aj7125
Joined: 11/28/2014
Msg: 2061
NEW ENGLAND CHEATRIOTS
Posted: 11/15/2015 10:33:41 PM
"Teddy Bridgewater and Cam Newton received when the Vikings and Panthers were caught altering footballs earlier the same season?"

^^^^^^^ If you are talking about the Vikings using heaters to warm up the footballs, that claim was absolutely false per the league.
 Yule_liquor
Joined: 12/7/2011
Msg: 2062
NEW ENGLAND CHEATRIOTS
Posted: 11/16/2015 5:42:44 AM
#2246

I said:


how Goodell inexplicably mishandled "deflate-gate"(given the team of lawyers the NFL employs)


then you said:


Of course he mishandled deflategate - that's what happens when you reach your conclusion first, and then try to work backwards to it.


I could see why everything I said went squarely over your head
Did you ever wonder why he took that route (given the array of legal advice he had)?
This is a good case of not being able to see the forest because the trees are in your way!


So if they are guilty, the baseline punishment for tampering with footballs is a $25,000 fine.


tampering the balls themselves is one thing; but playing the games with these tampered balls for the purpose of gaining a presumed advantage is another matter altogether!
 SunshineGirl__
Joined: 10/7/2014
Msg: 2063
NEW ENGLAND CHEATRIOTS
Posted: 11/16/2015 4:52:43 PM

tampering the balls themselves is one thing; but playing the games with these tampered balls for the purpose of gaining a presumed advantage is another matter altogether!


What other purpose is there for tampering with the balls if not to play with them? They just tampered with them for the heck of it, not to play with them? Come on.

The Pats got a taste of crap officiating yesterday, and talk about “whining.” They don’t like it when the cheap calls are against them. NYG had that game easily. The refs control the NFL. They need consequences and accountability for their crap calls.
 hoopsnhikes
Joined: 4/16/2010
Msg: 2064
NEW ENGLAND CHEATRIOTS
Posted: 11/17/2015 5:52:48 PM

If you are talking about the Vikings using heaters to warm up the footballs, that claim was absolutely false per the league.

You are correct, thank you for pointing that out. Sorry to wrongly implicate the Vikings. I hadn't even heard that the initial reports had been corrected – probably because this ball tampering issue didn’t involve New England, so it basically was a non-story from the beginning with no fake outrage to be had. What's odd though is that the Panthers' punishment is still the same as the Vikings'.


Did you ever wonder why he took that route (given the array of legal advice he had)?

The route of treating it vastly differently than the similar situations with other teams? The route of leaking lies to get the ball rolling and gain public support? Well yeah...glad we agree on something!


tampering the balls themselves is one thing; but playing the games with these tampered balls for the purpose of gaining a presumed advantage is another matter altogether!


What other purpose is there for tampering with the balls if not to play with them? They just tampered with them for the heck of it, not to play with them?

Hmm, good question. Maybe he thinks the other teams were tampering with them to bring them home to play pass with their kids?


The Pats got a taste of crap officiating yesterday, and talk about “whining.” They don’t like it when the cheap calls are against them.

What team does like it? Every team/player/coach is going to complain about perceived bad calls. Except for maybe Jim Caldwell.
 7941
Joined: 7/22/2013
Msg: 2065
NEW ENGLAND CHEATRIOTS
Posted: 12/28/2015 2:22:41 PM
Now you can add Coin Toss-Gate (losing on purpose) to keep the Steelers out of the playoffs on to the list.
 Yule_liquor
Joined: 12/7/2011
Msg: 2066
NEW ENGLAND CHEATRIOTS
Posted: 12/28/2015 4:37:06 PM
^
for sure!
Win or lose, the Pts already had their division locked up, and made the playoffs.
The only thing that is left for Belichick to do, is to manipulate the playoff picture!

The funny thing is seeing the Jets and their fans celebrating this win like a playoff victory,
when in fact Belichick made it easy enough for even a blind-man to go in for a TD.

You gotta hand it to Belichick,
his devious mind is always scheming up stuff!
 SunshineGirl__
Joined: 10/7/2014
Msg: 2067
NEW ENGLAND CHEATRIOTS
Posted: 1/8/2016 2:57:41 PM
Did the Pats deliberately lose to the lameo Dolphins and sacrifice home field advantage? Think you’re giving them waaaaay too much credit.

PS. The Jets and their fans are celebrating no more. :/
 7941
Joined: 7/22/2013
Msg: 2069
NEW ENGLAND CHEATRIOTS
Posted: 1/24/2016 7:23:36 PM
Oh Good, The footballs had just the right amount of air in them this post season.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 2070
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History
NEW ENGLAND CHEATRIOTS
Posted: 1/24/2016 8:08:43 PM
Brady looked unhappy the whole game through, and seemed "off." As though he were ill.
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 2071
NEW ENGLAND CHEATRIOTS
Posted: 1/24/2016 9:12:01 PM
I don't know much about the NFL, but it's my understanding that for most of their time in the league Manning was the better quarterback with a worse team. This time Brady was the better quarterback with a worse team. Funny how it works like that.
 BlackOnyx48
Joined: 1/7/2016
Msg: 2072
NEW ENGLAND CHEATRIOTS
Posted: 1/25/2016 4:54:09 PM
omg,,,go back to Mars.....
 vbxtc
Joined: 3/31/2006
Msg: 2073
view profile
History
NEW ENGLAND CHEATRIOTS
Posted: 1/25/2016 8:38:01 PM
I used to live in Seattle. It's been so funny reading all of the posts from my friends (Seahawk fans) on Facebook since the game ended Sunday, rejoicing in the Patriots downfall. It's been a year. You lost. Get. Over. It. Already.
 Yule_liquor
Joined: 12/7/2011
Msg: 2074
NEW ENGLAND CHEATRIOTS
Posted: 1/26/2016 5:05:30 PM
#2256


As though he were ill.


Yep, the notion of him having to go into this play-off game without an edge, must have definitely made him feel "ill"!
 aj17225
Joined: 1/20/2016
Msg: 2075
NEW ENGLAND CHEATRIOTS
Posted: 1/27/2016 12:24:36 PM
Igor, I agree 100% about Brady. He looked off the whole game. His passes were for the most part were not even close to how he normally throws. Watched the game with one of my sons and told him the same. Not all was his fault as the pats offensive line was putrid but Brady did not look like himself at all.
 SunshineGirl__
Joined: 10/7/2014
Msg: 2076
NEW ENGLAND CHEATRIOTS
Posted: 1/27/2016 1:13:24 PM
Yeah I think any quarterback would look ill after being sacked, knocked down or intercepted every drive. Denver’s defense was on fire. No need to detract from how well they played, as if the only way Denver could clobber him was because he was ill. Both home teams won Sunday. Maybe he was scared, and rightfully so.

LMAO at Gronk’s spoiled brat meltdown in the end zone. :thumbsup:
 brianrymill
Joined: 6/27/2010
Msg: 2077
view profile
History
New England Patriots 2007-2008
Posted: 6/24/2017 2:58:49 AM
i cant wait to see Tom Brady and the patriots crush everybody i there path this year
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