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 scorpiomover
Joined: 4/19/2007
Msg: 617
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Sex with minorsPage 7 of 35    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35)
1) I quite agree. You are speaking about your "feelings".
2) I appreciate fully that a parent is legally responsible for their child. To my understanding, the legal responsibility of a guardian is to order his or her child to keep away from a place or person, and that you have the right to "ground" said child if he or she will not abide by their rules. But that seems to be only applicable to the rights said guardian has over the child. So perhaps I am unsure of the law. Can you tell me where it says that you are legally allowed to have a restraining order enacted against someone who has done nothing wrong?
3) The school is entitled to keep a 25-year-old off school grounds, which it would do to anyone. Correct me if I am wrong, but is it not true that the school is under the jurisdiction of the people who run the school? Is it not true that if you feel the school is not acting in the best interests of your child, then you are entitled to remove your child from that school? What law allows you to dictate what the school does?
4) If you are trying to make demands of the basis that you are LEGALLY responsible for your child, that LEGAL responsibility ends at 18. Plus, there are many extremely unsavoury acts that a young woman is allowed to do at 18. What are you going to do then? You really think that there are less "predators" at age 18 than at 17?
 scorpiomover
Joined: 4/19/2007
Msg: 621
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History
Sex with minors
Posted: 1/6/2008 5:32:56 PM

I am speaking ON TOPIC as to whether or not I find it acceptable for a 25 year old to f*ck a 17 year old minor. THAT is the topic. I simply elaborated with the steps I would take to protect my minor child from the predator.
I will re-quote the OP:
I recently read a post from a 25 year old man who has a crush on a minor, the girl in question is according to him is 17 years old.
Since when did a "crush" mean "f*ck", which when I have heard anyone use it, seems to be a form of casual sex, with no feelings involved at all? So how on Earth is your post ON TOPIC?

It's quite easy to obtain a protective or peace order. And the 25 year old predator IS doing something wrong when I've informed him that he is not to be in contact with my minor child. She IS MY legal responsiblity. Just as I'd be responsible if she wrecked her car and killed someone, or if she had an unsupervised party at my house and died from drinking.
Sorry, but the law does not allow you to dictate the actions of others. It allows you to DICTATE THE ACTIONS OF YOUR CHILD, BECAUSE YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR HER. You don't get the right to dictate the actions of others. It's the law

Legally, I would file on behalf of a child who cannot provide for his or her own needs. (I'm supporting her) Then I'd check the box that said I was related to the minor child by blood, marriage, or adoption. Then I'd check the boxes that applied to criminal harrassment, criminal trespassing, and criminal stalking. And because any sick perverted 25 year old who would prey on a 17 year old child is likely to be highly stupid at the least, I'd probably be able to check the box that applied to an act (statement) that placed the petitioner (me) in imminent fear of bodily harm.
Unfortunately for you, most 25-year-olds are not stupid, and still have living relatives who are equally not stupid, and who would feel incredibly incensed by this, and sue your a** for everything you have, because you just lied to the courts, on a legal document, and you would have to back this up by a legal statement. Under these circumstances, the law's first choice is to prosecute the individual, so a trial would ensue, during which, your perjury would become apparent, and you would go to jail for 5 years, during which time, your daughter would be left without you. In your country, there is something called "innocent until proven guilty", which means you would have to back up everything you say.

Sure I could remove my child from the school. But I have no idea what that has to do with the price of milk or the topic of conversation. And yes I can remove my child from the school, but again...that has zero to do with this topic. And the "law allowing me to dictate what the school does" comment? I have no idea where you pulled that from either. The school WILL, however, abide by the existing laws regarding who is able to remove the child from school grounds. They will also do their best to ensure that predators of the minor children are kept off the grounds. AND, they WILL happily look at pictures of the predator I provide as well as any license plate numbers, etc., and take a copy of the restraining order.
You could do this. Many schools do. But it's just like women who put "no players" on their profile. Tells them that she is an easy target for someone who knows what they are doing. By doing this, the guy will probably be hounded out of town, or more likely have molotov****ails thrown into his home, by the other parents, or even possibly end up dead, because of your actions. Now, what usually happens, is that because everyone is looking at this guy, the real predators, who prey on 14-year-olds or even younger, will be free to do their grooming and abuse, with your enablement, because you attacked an innocent man.

If you don't get it yet, you're not going to. On Topic...NO I do NOT think it is acceptable for a 25 year old predator to f*ck a 17 year old minor child, no matter how you dress it up. Do you?
Let me be perfectly clear: If you think a "crush" is the same as "f*cking", then I pity you, for any man who has dated has had to learn to pick up on when women say one thing and mean another. You have made it perfectly clear that you equate a relationship with a f*ck. So any man who dates you will pick up that, and will react the same way as he would to any other woman who feels this way about relationships. She makes her bed, she lies in it, and that's all she gets, because that's all she can see.
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 626
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History
Sex with minors
Posted: 1/7/2008 5:56:46 AM
I've mostly stayed out of this thread... because it was based on a thread that WAS a crush, the 25 yr old was a virgin and stated he wouldn't pursue sex with the girl in question. The OP of this thread didn't like some of the responses in that thread (your opinion was consistent Arugula in both threads) jumped off that and twisted the situation, making it about sex and being a predator.
 scorpiomover
Joined: 4/19/2007
Msg: 627
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History
This thread is ONLY about legal sex
Posted: 1/7/2008 2:57:05 PM
To Arugula:
1) I never changed my mind. Mahogany_rush started claiming that this was about illegal sex with minors. I merely pointed that this thread was only about legal situations.
When it came to you, you started talking about f*cking, so I had to correct you as well.
It is wise to read the Opening Post very carefully before posting, as I did, to ensure that you don't start talking about something that the OP never addressed.

2) You are nothing to do with me. I have no care or interest in whatever happens to your family. I know what usually happens to the daughters of a woman who expresses herself in a certain manner. But that is your issue. I have no desire to educate you in any way, or to help you to escape your fate, or the fate of your family. I normally look to help others wherever possible. But your posts suggest to me that you seem to think you are smart enough to handle your own family's issues on your own. I wish that you never have anything to do with me.

So there is absolutely 100% impossible for me to have anything to do with your family. I leave you to the tender mercies of other men, who are known to be quite open to taking advantage of women wherever possible, one of the things that I am known for not doing.
 scorpiomover
Joined: 4/19/2007
Msg: 628
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History
This thread is ONLY about legal sex
Posted: 1/7/2008 3:03:12 PM
To mahogany_rush:
Legal sex or not at that age, she's still a friggen MINOR, what I find so weird is, you can grant licenses and make it legal to have sex but they cant vote, purchase real estate, buy stocks, run for public office
Who do you think passes these laws? People in your legislature. And what do all these people have? Money, and young, horny teenage sons and daughters, who want sex, and who their fathers and mothers will anything to please.
 creativelust
Joined: 1/22/2008
Msg: 635
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History
Sex with minors
Posted: 1/25/2008 11:54:57 PM
its not the men its the girls seriously 16-17 girls like older guys I know this cause I dated one. never again -_-
 Imtheone7
Joined: 2/10/2007
Msg: 641
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History
Sex with minors
Posted: 1/26/2008 8:54:41 AM
Read through this post.. you will find it very intersting.. It shows the ages of consent from around the world.. as well as by State...

Who would have thought that a large number of states would have a age of consent of 16 years old... How odd that a man having sex with a 17 year old in CA would be a sexual predator, while he could have sex with a girl that is 15 in Alabama and it is legal...


This table lists different countries around the world, and shows the ages in at which people of different sexualities can legally have sex.

If you're an adult, and you're reading this page for personal information, then you might need a more detailed explanation of these laws as they relate to adults - you can find this on our age of consent FAQ page.

If you're a young person, and you want to find out more, read our page on teens, sex and the law. You might also like to have a look at our "Am I ready for sex?" page.

This table should only be used as general guide - please also read the notes at the bottom of this page.

Country Male-Female Sex Male-Male Sex Female-Female Sex
Afghanistan ? Illegal Illegal
Albania 14 14 14
Algeria 16 Illegal Illegal
American Samoa ? ? ?
Andorra 16 16 16
Angola ? Illegal Illegal
Antigua and Barbuda 16 16 16
Argentina 13/16 13/16 13/16
Armenia 16 16 16
Aruba 16 16 16
Australia ACT 16 16 16
Australia NSW & Norfolk Is. 16 16 16
Australia NT 16 16 16
Australia Queensland1 16/18 18 16
Australia SA 17 17 17
Australia Tasmania 17 17 17
Australia Victoria 16 16 16
Australia WA 16 16 16
Austria2 14/16 14/16 14/16
Azerbaijan 16 16 16
Bahamas 16 18 18
Bahrain ? Illegal Illegal
Bangladesh ? Illegal Illegal
Barbados 16 Illegal Illegal
Belarus 16/18 16 16
Belgium 16 16 16
Belize 16 ? ?
Bermuda 16 18 16
Benin ? Illegal Illegal
Bhutan ? Illegal ?
Bolivia 14f/16m ? ?
Bosnia 16 16 16
Botswana 16f/14m Illegal ?
Brazil3 14/18 14/18 14/18
Brunei 14/16 Illegal Illegal
Bulgaria 14 14 14
Burkina Faso 13 13 13
Burma/Myanmar ? Illegal ?
Burundi 18 Illegal ?
Cambodia (Kampuchea) 16 ? ?
Cambodia 16 ? ?
Cameroon ? Illegal ?
Canada4 12/14/18 18 12/14
Cape Verde ? ? ?
Cayman Islands ? ? ?
Central African Republic ? ? ?
Chad ? 21 21
Chechenya ? ? ?
Chile 14 18 18
China 14 14 14
China - Hong Kong 16 16 16
China - Macao 16/17 ? ?
Chinese Taipei (Taiwan)
16 16 16
Colombia 14 14 14
Cook Islands 16 Illegal 16
Costa Rica 15 15 15
Cote D'Ivoire 15 15? 15?
Croatia 14 14 14
Cuba 16 16 16
Cyprus 13/17 17 (Illegal in north) 17
Czech Republic 15 15 15
Denmark 15 15 15
Dominica 16 ? ?
Dominican Republic 18 18 18
Dutch Antilles 16 16 16
Ecuador 14 14 14
Egypt 18 18/Illegal 18
El Salvador 18 ? ?
Equatorial Guinea ? ? ?
Eritrea 18 Illegal Illegal
Estonia 14 14 14
Ethiopia 15 Illegal Illegal
Falkland Islands (Malvinas) 16 16 16
Faroe Islands 15 15 15
Fiji 16 16 (unofficial) 16
Finland5 16 16 16
Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia 16 16 16
France 15 15 15
French Guiana 15 15 15
French Polynesia (Tahiti) 16 16 16
Gabon 18 18 18
Gambia ? Illegal ?
Georgia (country) 16 16 16
Germany6 14/16 14/16 14/16
Ghana ? ? ?
Greece 15 15/17 15
Greenland ? ? ?
Grenada 17 Illegal 17
Guam 16 16 16
Guadelope 15 15 15
Guatemala 18 18 18
Guinea 15 Illegal Illegal
Guyana 16 Illegal 16
Haiti 18 18 18
Honduras 14/17 14 14
Hungary 14 14 14
Iceland 15 15 15
India7 14/16 Illegal Illegal
Indonesia 16f/19m 18 18
Iran Must be married Illegal Illegal
Iraq 18 ? ?
Ireland 17 17 17
Israel 14-16 14-16 14-16
Italy 14 14 14
Jamaica 16 Illegal 16
Japan8 13-18 13-18 13-18
Jordan 16 16 16
Kazakhstan 18 ? ?
Kenya 16 Illegal 16
Kuwait Must be married? Illegal Illegal
Kyrgyzstan ? ? ?
Laos 15? ? ?
Latvia 14/16 14/16 14/16
Lebanon 15/18/Married Illegal Illegal
Lesotho ? ? ?
Liberia 16 Illegal Illegal
Liechtenstein 14 14 14
Lithuania 14 14 14
Luxembourg 16 16 16
Madagascar 21? 21 21
Mali 16 ? ?
Malta 18 18 18
Malaysia 16/Married Illegal 16
Marshall Islands 16 16 16
Martinique 15 15 15
Mauritius 15 Illegal Illegal
Mexico9 12-18 12-18 12-18
Moldova 14 14 14
Monaco 15 15 15
Mongolia 16 ? ?
Montenegro 14 14 14
Morocco 15 Illegal Illegal
Mozambique ? Illegal ?
Namibia 16 Illegal 16
Nepal 16 ? ?
Netherlands 16 16 16
Netherlands Antilles 16 16 16
New Caledonia 16 16 16
New Zealand 16 16 16
Nicaragua ? ? ?
Niger ? 21 21
Nigeria 13 Illegal Illegal
North Korea Undefined Undefined Undefined
Norway5 16 16 16
Oman Must be married Illegal Illegal
Pakistan Must be married Illegal Illegal
Panama 12/18? ? ?
Papua New Guinea10 16f/14m/Illegal Illegal 16
Paraquay11 14/16 16 16
Peru 14 14 14
Philippines12 12/18 12/18 12/18
Poland 15 15 15
Portugal13 14/16 14/16 14/16
Puerto Rico 14 14 14
Qatar Must be married Illegal Illegal
Reunion 16 16 16
Romania 15 15 15
Russia 16 16 16
Rwanda 18 18 18
San Marino 14/16 14/16 14/16
Saudi Arabia Must be married Illegal Illegal
Senegal ? Illegal Illegal
Serbia 14 14 14
Singapore 16 Illegal 16
Slovakia 15 15 15
Slovenia 15 15 15
Somalia ? Illegal Illegal
South Africa 16 16 16
South Korea 13 13 13
Spain 13 13 13
Sri Lanka 16 Illegal 16
St. Kitts and Nevis 14/16 ? ?
St. Martin ? ? ?
Sudan Must be married Illegal Illegal
Suriname 16 18 18
Sweden 15 15 15
Swaziland 18 Illegal Illegal
Switzerland 16 16 16
Syria 13/15 Illegal Illegal
Tajikistan 17 ? 17
Tanzania 18 Illegal Illegal
Thailand14 15/18 15/18 15/18
Togo 14 Illegal Illegal
Tonga15 16/Illegal Illegal 16
Trinidad & Tobago 16 Illegal Illegal
Tunisia 20 Illegal Illegal
Turkey 18 18 18
Turkmenistan 16 Illegal 16
Tuvalu ? Illegal ?
Uganda 18 Illegal 18
Ukraine 16 16 16
United Arab Emirates 18/Married Illegal Illegal
Uzbekistan 16 Illegal 16
Uruguay 15 15 15
Vanuatu 15 18 18
Venezuela 16 16 16
Vietnam 18 18 18
Western Samoa 16 Illegal Illegal
Yemen Must be married Illegal Illegal
Zaire ? Illegal ?
Zambia ? Illegal ?
Zimbabwe 12/16 Illegal 12/16
United Kingdom England, Scotland, Wales Jersey, Isle of Man 16 16 16
United Kingdom Northern Ireland 17 17 17
United Kingdom Guernsey and Gibraltar 16 18 16
USA Alabama 16 Law invalidated Law invalidated
USA Alaska 16 16 16
USA Arizona 18 Law repealed Law repealed
USA Arkansas16 14/16 Law invalidated Law invalidated
USA California 18 18 18
USA Colorado16 15/17 15/17 15/17
USA Connecticut 16 16 16
USA D.C. 16 Law repealed Law repealed
USA Delaware16 16/18 Law repealed Law repealed
USA Florida16 16/18 Law invalidated Law invalidated
USA Georgia 16 16 16
USA Hawaii 16 Law repealed Law repealed
USA Idaho16 16/18 Law invalidated Law invalidated
USA Illinois 17 17 17
USA Indiana16 14/16 14/16 14/16
USA Iowa16 14/16 Law repealed Law repealed
USA Kansas 16 Law invalidated Law invalidated
USA Kentucky 16 Law invalidated Law invalidated
USA Louisiana 17 Law invalidated Law invalidated
USA Maine 16 16 16
USA Maryland 16 Law invalidated Law invalidated
USA Massachusetts 16 Law invalidated Law invalidated
USA Michigan 16 Law invalidated Law invalidated
USA Minnesota 16 Law invalidated Law invalidated
USA Mississippi 16 Law invalidated Law invalidated
USA Missouri16 14/17 Law repealed Law repealed
USA Montana 16 Law invalidated Law invalidated
USA Nebraska 17 Law repealed Law repealed
USA Nevada 16 Law invalidated Law invalidated
USA New Hampshire 16 Law invalidated Law invalidated
USA New Jersey 16 16 16
USA New Mexico 17 17 17
USA New York16 15/17 15/17 15/17
USA North Carolina 16 Law invalidated Law invalidated
USA North Dakota 18 Law repealed Law repealed
USA Ohio 16 Law repealed Law repealed
USA Oklahoma 16 Law invalidated Law invalidated
USA Oregon 18 18 18
USA Pennsylvania 16 16 16
USA Rhode Island 16 Law repealed Law repealed
USA South Carolina16 14/16 Law invalidated Law invalidated
USA South Dakota 16 Law repealed Law repealed
USA Tennessee 18 Law Invalidated Law Invalidated
USA Texas16 17 Law invalidated Law invalidated
USA Utah16 16/18 Law invalidated Law invalidated
USA Vermont 16 Law repealed Law repealed
USA Virginia 18 Law invalidated Law invalidated
USA Washington16 16/18 16/18 16/18
USA West Virginia 16 Law invalidated Law invalidated
USA Wisconsin 18 18 18
USA Wyoming 16 Law repealed Law repealed
USA Traveling Citizens 18 18 18
USA Military personnel17 16 Illegal Illegal
Average age* 16 16 16

General notes
If more than one age is given then the law within that country or state varies according to region or circumstances. In particular, some countries have regional laws that may overrule the federal law. Also in some cases the age of consent is lower when partners are of a similar age. Where the symbol ? is used, information is either incomplete or unavailable.

In some countries the age of consent is higher for those taking part in commercial sex. In many countries the age of consent is higher when one partner is in a position of trust with regard to the other, or when one partner takes advantage of the other's immaturity. Age of consent laws often do not apply when the partners are married.

In this table, male-female sex is defined as vaginal or anal sex, and male-male sex is defined as anal sex. Other sexual activities may be legal at a lower age.

* The average age of consent does not include countries where it is illegal.

Footnotes
In Queensland, the legal age of consent for anal intercourse is 18 (regardless of gender), while for vaginal intercourse it is 16.
Although the Austrian age of consent is basically 14, it is illegal to have sex with someone under 16 by "exploiting their lack of maturity".

In Brazil, authorities may not choose to prosecute if the younger partner is aged 14 to 17 and does not lodge a complaint.
In Canada, consensual activity with those over 12 may not be an offence if the accused is under 16 and less than two years older than the complainant. The exception is anal intercourse, to which unmarried persons under 18 cannot legally consent according to national law, although provincial laws may vary.
 Confident-Realist
Joined: 2/8/2004
Msg: 645
Sex with minors
Posted: 1/27/2008 7:32:13 PM

The power balance is unequal. It's not difficult for an older man to convince a young girl that she wants to have sex.

There's a difference between just being under 18 and being a pre-adolescent. Yes, they have a lot of sexual desires -- whether they're a boy or a girl. Secondly, it's easier for a hot, older woman (2oish) to convince a young teen boy to have sex. In fact, the 14-16 year old boy would probably say, "You don't have to tell ME twice!"

I agree, there's a difference between male and female, and authoritative advantages on male-to-female, as opposed to female-to-male. But let's make this clear -- female teens have a desire to have sex. Male teens have a desire to have sex. I think it'd be judged on a case-by-case basis, and different rules for different age groups, etc.

Either way, it's not good for a sub 16-18 year old to have sex with someone significantly older. It's not good for an 18-20 year old girl to either. A line has to be drawn, and the severity of it depends on what went down. I think people go WAY too out of control about teens having sex with someone in their 20's. It's bad and should be a definite concern -- but they don't go out of control about innocent Suzy hooking up with a bunch of boys her own age which happens far far more often, and when it's about someone older "Oh, she didn't want it -- she had to be coerced!". Maybe, maybe not. But sorry, Suzy has desires too, just like Timmy's licking his chops over the hot choir teacher -- so all cases aren't as easy as pie ;)
 SAIUN
Joined: 5/23/2007
Msg: 647
Sex with minors
Posted: 1/28/2008 5:43:57 AM


Either way, it's not good for a sub 16-18 year old to have sex with someone significantly older. It's not good for an 18-20 year old girl to either.

Either way kids that age SHOULDNT BE HAVING SEX AT ALL!

Not to manage it stifles intellectual growth, and maturity.

The only people who AGREE with it being ok to screw at that age, are pervs, and people who did it them selves..
And those arent typically people who are gaingully employeed...or own homes.


Oh man, that's another can of worms entirely. I'm no expert but I think there are a heap of people who had sex between the ages of 16 and 20 who incurred no ill-effects, especially with regards to their intellectual growth and home ownership.

(Disclaimer: This post is in disagreement to the sections of the post quoted above, not in disagreement to the disapproval of adults having sex with minors.)
 that sam i am
Joined: 10/27/2006
Msg: 649
Sex with minors
Posted: 1/28/2008 10:31:21 AM
Yes, the state should get involved in the personal lives of its citizens. Here in North America, we don't believe in Freedom. Those Heathen Europeans and their sexual freedom. We believe in repression, but not too much because we aren't like the Taliban. We believe in controlling the thoughts and activities of our people and that of other people in other countries. But we're not communists. We're always right. And we believe in Freedom
 that sam i am
Joined: 10/27/2006
Msg: 654
Sex with minors
Posted: 1/30/2008 9:40:32 AM
So is sex a good thing or a bad thing? Make up your minds people!
Or is it really a case of do as I say not as I do. Because we know better than you.
 EH1
Joined: 1/8/2008
Msg: 656
Sex with minors
Posted: 1/30/2008 3:09:10 PM
To my understainding, if the girl is 17 and the guy is in his 20's then unless the parents would press charges I don't think that there is anything immoral about it. In fact, some guys in their 20's are still like a 17 year old in some respects so I don't think that it is horribly peverse and immoral if the girl really wants to. I think it is immoral when the guy is grown up enough to know and really understand the danger and lonelyness that a sex addiction brings on people and use uses a younger girl for sex and leaves her with that addiciton.
 that sam i am
Joined: 10/27/2006
Msg: 665
Sex with minors
Posted: 2/1/2008 10:18:56 AM

I think its ok its ok for a 60 year old guy to date/have sex with a 30 year old thats acceptable age is only a number

Not only is it acceptable but it is a sign that the old guy is very very rich. *ahem* Clinton *ahem* Hefner *ahem* Daddy Bigbucks.
 kasei1000
Joined: 8/24/2007
Msg: 672
view profile
History
Sex with minors
Posted: 2/2/2008 7:43:23 AM
17 is just a child?
Are you kidding me??

Did it ever dawn onto some of you genuius that perhaps the reason 12 year old girls can become pregnant by 12 year old boys is because that's the age nature intended us to start procreating?

This extended childhood crap didn't start until this past 100 years, and it came out of anti-child labor laws. The reason a big deal is made out of the age 18 is because thats the age people get out of high school, which btw, is also a pretty brand new concept coming from the past 70 years.

Historically, 12 year old girls were married off to men as old as 60 (if they were nobility, because only those who didn't perform much physical labour or live in absolutely filthy ghettos were able to survive that long).

Up until the 1600s, the vast majority of people tended to die before they turned 30 because our medical knowledge was so blatantly incorrect (they were still using astrology in vain attempts to cure diseases!). There is still some parts of the world where people still do (South-Africa comes to mind), because things like parasites, AIDS and famine are so widespread. If these people weren't procreating at such a young age, their cultures would be extinct already.

Hell, humanity would be extinct today if 12 year olds weren't supposed to be able to have children.

Now, in today's world is it probably a good idea for teenagers to have kids? Hell no, I think not! With how our society is structured, having children before you have a stable, well-paying job almost guarentees you will never obtain one because child-rearing is hugely time-consuming, especially if you are a single-parent (there are exceptions to the rule, but they are exceptions because they rarely happen).

It is also a well known that while men can technically continue to have children til the day they die, the older a man gets, the more probable his sperm will contain serious genetic defects, and he probably shouldn't be reproducing with significantly younger girls.

But I don't think it is immoral for someone (man or woman) who happens to be any number of years over the age of 18 to have sex with someone who is 17. Probably not a relationship that is going to endure for long, but I don't think it is immoral. The differences between a 17 year old and an 18 year old are nominal at best.

And please don't bring Christianity into this. It is a historical fact that early christians practiced polygamy and married 12 year old girls off to significantly older men. You can mis-quote your Bible all you like, it won't change the fact nobody obeys every damn rule in that book, so picking and choosing which religious laws you want to accuse others of breaking while you yourself don't follow them all is just hypocritical.

A 17 year old is a child??

Sheesh.

It was not too long ago that 17 year olds served as military commanders in the world wars, and some of our greatest leaders throughout history made great achievments while they were teenagers, Alexander the Great being the most well known. The only reason many teenagers today are immature is because they are so excluded from anything in society remotely requiring personal responsibility they never learn it until they are out on their own in college, and even then a lot of parents continue to decide everything for their kids.

As someone who joined the Army when he was 17, that disgusts me.
 kasei1000
Joined: 8/24/2007
Msg: 673
view profile
History
Sex with minors
Posted: 2/2/2008 8:17:59 AM
Oh, and psychology is a science ground upon scientific theories, not facts, due to the hypothetical nature of the science.

It wasn't too long ago that they counted "female hysteria" as a disease. Did you know vibrators were invented by psychologists to treat female hysteria, an imaginary disease that was treated by making women have a kind of seizure by stimulating the genital region? Sounds like an orgasm, right? But oh, psychologists didnt believe women were capable of orgasms until this past century.

Hard to believe, yes I know. But there is all kinds of quackery remaining in psychology and from the sheer fact that the vast majority of human history that a person became an adult at around 12 / 13 should prove a heavy counter-arguement against "child psychologists" who claim teenagers are not capable of making "adult decisions" based upon brain scans which, btw, are severely more complicated to interpret than simply looking at which regions have high levels of activity in a control group because the human brain is so extrodinary complex that individual brains develop quite differently from one another.

That humans traditionally became adults in the teen years can be easily validated simply by looking at the quite ancient Jewish custom of bar mitzvah, which is very similar to other coming of age rituals in countless other cultures throughout history, including the age at when children cease being children and are now accountable for their actions. This is about 12-14.

If you want my opinion, the only way someone who thinks "childish" is going to think "maturely" is by being placed into a situation where they must make "mature" decisions (i.e. the most optimal decisions for success in whatever they are doing). It is not going to magically happen when someone becomes a certain age. You have to adapt to that mode of thinking by being forced to think about a grander, more long term picture. When parents shield their kids from growing up, all that is achieved is increasing the probability that your offspring is going to do something incredibly stupid and get themselves killed, like get massively drunk at college and walk in front of traffic, which seems to occur quite frequently in my town.

Or, perhaps, deciding it is a fabulous idea to have sex without condoms with Random Person From The Bar, because it feels so much better.
 that sam i am
Joined: 10/27/2006
Msg: 676
Sex with minors
Posted: 2/2/2008 9:26:13 AM

The only reason many teenagers today are immature is because they are so excluded from anything in society remotely requiring personal responsibility they never learn it until they are out on their own in college, and even then a lot of parents continue to decide everything for their kids.

Bingo!
 that sam i am
Joined: 10/27/2006
Msg: 678
Sex with minors
Posted: 2/2/2008 2:24:09 PM
But if you are 42 as and she is 28 or younger than I have to look at myself in the mirror and wonder hot damn! how did I get so lucky. A 28 year old is hardly a minor.
 kasei1000
Joined: 8/24/2007
Msg: 692
view profile
History
Sex with minors
Posted: 2/5/2008 2:20:47 PM

Did it occur to you while you were spouting that crap that girls were lucky if they lived to 20?? Did these 12 y/o's CHOOSE to marry and have sex with these old men? Yeah, I doubt it too. To even think you can bring this up as a valid argument is disgusting and disturbing.


It's not that simple, and anyone who has ever lived outside of this country can tell you that. Arranged marriages are not always some kind of victimization. I used to know a well educated young woman from India who looked forward to her arranged marriage and hoped she would make a good wife. As an American who values my independent choice I found it extremely odd, but then again, I acknowledge much of what a person believes comes from how they were raised. The concept of "love" in marriage in rather new in our culture anyway.

My point was throughout history, teenagers were adults and lived adult lives with adult responsibilities because I find claims that teenagers aren't capable of making adult decisions based on circumstantial and erroneous evidence extremely arrogant Bad with money? Lazy and dont want to work a job? Doing drugs? Having unplanned pregnancies? Getting in car accidents? Hey guess what, federal statistics can show you that adults aren't making any wiser decisions than teenagers are.

At any rate, my point is not that people of different age groups should or should not have sex, but that teenagers are not helpless, stupid children incapable of making wise decisions, and that they need people slightly older than themselves to make better decisions, especially regarding sex.

From my understanding most sex education programs in public schools are actually telling teenagers absurd things like that condoms don't work because they so fear kids getting pregnant, rather than just accepting the fact teenagers are going to have sex because it's what human beings do, and properly supplying them with information on how not to reduce the chance of unwanted STDs and pregnancies.

And just because you may have had terrible experiences as a kid does not make your situation identical for every other person in the world. A stepfather trying to molest his stepdaughter is not identical to some 20 year old having sex with a 16 year old. Hell, I had a girlfriend who was 20 back when I was 16. Big deal. I had a lot more in common with her than any other girl my age I knew.
 curtis0986
Joined: 1/30/2007
Msg: 693
Sex with minors
Posted: 2/6/2008 11:03:11 AM
I read the same post and i agree with you 100%
 grizzelda
Joined: 6/25/2006
Msg: 694
view profile
History
Sex with minors
Posted: 2/6/2008 11:23:11 AM
What seems to be missed here is the fact that in historical times and in some cultures today adult males actually take these young girls as wives, taking them under their care, giving them a place to live and financially support them and create a family with them, not have sex with them and move on when something else caught their eye. What you are talking about are two very different things.

The fact is that todays teenagers are not required to have the life skills that our predecesors needed to survive at the same age and that fact has to be taken into consideration whether you like it or not.
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 695
view profile
History
Sex with minors
Posted: 2/6/2008 11:44:13 AM
My daughter is 15... it has been legal for her to have sex for the last 1.5 years. I am thankful she hasn't chosen to take that step yet. She has had good information and, I think, good guidance. Along with many, many other things, I've told her that ultimately it is her body, her emotions, her choice. That she makes good choices in her life and I trust she will continue to make good choices... and learn, as we all do, from the mistakes she will inevitably make as she figures out who she says she is and how she wishes to live her life. We've also discussed how some mistakes are more costly than others, and, to that end, I have made one request... that she discuss it with me when she is *thinking* of making that step with her bf because I want to insure she is properly on birth control and has thought it through... for her. I have told her she *has* to run through safe sex procedures with me because I remember her grade 8 health marks for sex ed... we both had a giggle over that.

We have an open, respectful and loving relationship; one that is gradually shifting to my letting go and providing guidance and support and a safe place to bounce ideas. One that lets her make plans and watches as she makes mistakes... ready to support, but letting her meet her own challenges in life. One that is gradually shifting to her being more autonomous, thoughtful and helpful/responsible with organizing her life. It is an interesting time to be a parent... the transition is rough sometimes... for both of us as we navigate life together.

There is a point where you trust them, you trust the nurturing you have done over the last XX years, you trust the many conversations you have had about life and integrity and love and responsibility. And you hope for the best as you let go...
 Blonde_charm
Joined: 9/18/2007
Msg: 697
Sex with minors
Posted: 2/6/2008 7:31:25 PM
Children under 20 should not have sex with adults. My opinion. Yeah yeah, I know legal consent is what... 18?? Who cares. Any man that states he has slept with anyone under the age of 20 past his 25th birthday is off my list.

I was raped out of my virginity at 16 by a man in his 20s. No I am not blaming all men for this. I think there is a serious problem with women who "do" teens as well. You hear more and more of it every day.

People under 20 should stick to people under 20 if they are consenting.

Same goes for people over the age of 20.
 that sam i am
Joined: 10/27/2006
Msg: 701
Sex with minors
Posted: 2/7/2008 12:17:59 AM

Go hire a hooker if you are that hard up.

an underaged hooker? hahaha...you're bad!
 that sam i am
Joined: 10/27/2006
Msg: 702
Sex with minors
Posted: 2/7/2008 12:19:44 AM

Any man that states he has slept with anyone under the age of 20 past his 25th birthday is off my list.
You're probably too old for him anyway.
 ADRAIN
Joined: 1/1/2007
Msg: 703
Sex with minors
Posted: 2/7/2008 1:34:08 AM
LOVE

This is going to seem funnie because although i am 21 and i know it is rong because she is so young being 16 and all i told her how i feel and i told her that i would never touch her till she's 19 and i told her that if were really serious that when she becomes of age i will be here for her and i told her i had no problem waiting for her for three years because what my morals tell me is that 15 and 21 looks bad to soca couiety and when you tell some one that it's like 19 and 24 don't seem to bad and people can except but now what makes me mad is people will now take that girl who waited three years to be with her boy friend ( she save's her self for 3 years for him keep in mind) and now get's labled as a slut thats not right if you really love some one you don't rob them of there virginity when there so young instead if you love them you just be there for them as support and comfort and some one to talk to and thats it if you still feel the same in three years that minor that you were oh so crazy about just became a wife because you never violated her and HAD RESPECT for her when she was younger !!!!!

i do belive in love and at that age you crazy if you think they know what that word means and yes there are sick fuc*ers out there that get off from takeing avantage of minors and all i have to say is they deserve to be SHOT ****ED AND PISSED ON !!! so all in all if she means that much wait the couple years you'll thank ur self and she will have a greater RESPECT for you !!

sincerly yours: Adrian Hamilton
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