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Show ALL Forums  > Science/philosophy  > Attention Geniuses: Focus your energy      Home login  
 AUTHOR
 crazylilting
Joined: 8/11/2006
Msg: 26
Attention Geniuses: Focus your energyPage 2 of 5    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5)
I've been looking at a devise called the joe cell. Its for running engines on it. I've been planning on building one and playing with it in combination with a power generator. If they can run a motor on it then one could run a generator on it. i'd be interested to give it a go anyhow.

*champrins*, here in the uk if you install solar option you hook it right into the grid and they buy it from you at the price they sell it to you so it is almost viable to implement it and no need for storage i think its a step in the right direction.

Just imagine if even ten percent of a countries population had solar panels that supplied their own energy and what ever they didn't use would go right into the grid. It would change the equation of how many plants we actually need to produce all of our energy needs. If we can produce it more efficiently It would even add to the viability of installing it as an option on houses. If we look at the amount of money it cost to build a nuclear plant that by coincidence is an option wales is looking at and then figure out how many houses could be retrofitted with solar panels and come up with a scheme that would mutually benefit the utility company the house owner and the government then i think we would be getting closer to a solution that isn't based on greed.

crazylilting
 GotSoul?
Joined: 9/22/2007
Msg: 27
Attention Geniuses: Focus your energy
Posted: 9/29/2007 10:13:08 AM
My idea for alternative energy sources would be for motion.
German rocket scientist Herman Oberth was one of the first to promote gravitational fields for UFOs.
If we find a way to recreate this system, we're saved... literally.
Why using gravity? cause it's the real only force around that can slow the time...
 jeffythepooh
Joined: 12/10/2006
Msg: 28
Attention Geniuses: Focus your energy
Posted: 9/29/2007 4:49:10 PM
People that are concerned with energy solutions should check out Hawiis progressive approach. Tax credits, help with installation cost etc. They are thinking of the future 10, 20 wow even 50 years from now.
 mak68
Joined: 9/26/2007
Msg: 29
Attention Geniuses: Focus your energy
Posted: 9/30/2007 8:36:38 AM
Wind.
In fact, windfarms are seriously being looked into by a few canadian provinces and US states. Depending on where the turbines are setup, it can be quite cost-effective as compared to other sources of energy. The more wind, the more cost-effective. Here is an example, from:

http://www.canren.gc.ca/tech_appl/index.asp?CaId=6&PgId=232

Modern wind turbine generators cost between $1500 and $2000 per kilowatt for wind farms that use multiple-unit arrays of large machines. Smaller individual units cost up to $3000 per kilowatt. In good wind areas, the costs of generating electricity range between five and ten cents per kilowatt hour. That cost is somewhat higher than the costs associated with an electrical facility, but wind energy costs are decreasing every year, whereas most conventional generation costs continue to increase.

In remote areas, generating electricity with diesel generators can range from $0.25 to $1.00 per kilowatt hour. So in good wind areas, electricity that is generated by the wind is clearly cost effective. When compared to the money that is charged by electrical companies, wind energy costs are nearly competitive. And that is without accounting for the environmental and health benefits of using a non-polluting source of energy.


Another idea would be to use plasma gasification. An Ottawa company has started to do this. Basically the process vapourizes non-recyclable garbage and converts it into energy.
An excerpt from this article:
http://www.carleton.ca/catalyst/n3.shtml


To squeeze energy from garbage, trash is shredded and chopped into smaller pieces, then fed into a chamber where the actual gasification takes place. In this chamber, a strong electrical current is passed between two electrodes. When the electrical current is exposed to air, it creates an electrically charged gas called plasma. If the electrical charge is high enough, the plasma can reach such high temperatures that it can melt anything in its path. With the amount of electricity that is passed between the electrodes within the chamber, the plasma can generate enough heat to essentially disintegrate the garbage inside.

They even have a cool flowchart to illustrate the process. I remember reading about the same process back in february, except it was a US company developing this technology.

Even the slag that is left over from the process can be used in building materials for roads and structures.
 Aknightrmor
Joined: 5/19/2007
Msg: 30
Attention Geniuses: Focus your energy
Posted: 9/30/2007 2:25:10 PM
The idea that a homeowner fits their house with a solar panel and sends excess energy to a grid to reduce the costs of electricity to people without solar panels is proposterous!!!
 chrono1985
Joined: 11/20/2004
Msg: 31
Attention Geniuses: Focus your energy
Posted: 10/1/2007 1:36:48 AM
I think a lot of people over-estimate the energy production of solar cells. Sure they can save a boatload on your electricity, but they won't eliminate the electric bill all-together. Wind is nice, but in how many places around the world are there stable winds. How about converting Heat into energy.

You spend most of your life sitting in a chair, laying on a bed, sitting on a couch, walking across a floor. Displacing your heat among the world. Why not put some form of collectors in your furniture to collect all that body heat you give off, our bodies make so much energy that we radiate heat constantly, even in the low energy sleep state.

We open and close doors on a nearly hourly basis, why not put generators in the doors hinges that collect energy from opening and closing it. If you take a RC car motor and spin it manually, it actually produces energy, not much but when you factor in the billions of people around the world, that's a lot of energy.

Waste as mentioned, we all give it off in various forms, all of those forms producing two types of energy, chemical and heat.

We almost always have some light source around us, photo cells can collect from that and add back a bit of what we use.

The pipes in a two tub sink are lined up just right for a very nice generator. Here's an experiment for you, take 4 coffee cans, cut the bottom out of two of them, cross wire the top right to the left bottom, and the top left to right bottom (an X shape), leave a space in the middle of the cross between the wire. Turn on water flow to both of them (just let the water pass through the middle of the open bottom cans), and plug your ears, it's really freaking loud. Boom, a flash of light, a lightning like strike of electricity between the two wires. GM once had to recall thousands of vehicles for this problem with the gas inlet, cars were literally exploding when people fueled them up.

Everything we do, we expend energy to do it. Often times and excess of energy to do it. Collecting every form of excess would take a lot of engineering to accomplish but it would drastically cut back on power usage from synthetic harmful forms.
 father3
Joined: 7/11/2006
Msg: 32
view profile
History
Attention Geniuses: Focus your energy
Posted: 10/1/2007 1:40:10 AM

What about water?

Water is composed of hydrogen and oxygen. We know they are both combustible. Water covers 3/4 of the planet. Why haven't we figured out how to seperate, contain and control these elements to use for power? Seem like we'd have an endless supply of energy once we can.


Oxygen is not combustible in itself. It is one of the three components you need for combustion...fuel, oxygen and heat.

Also, we can and do break the hydogen/oxygen bond in water to produce pure hydrogen and pure oxygen. The process is called electrolysis. The hydrogen can then be combusted as fuel. The problem with thinking of water as a fuel source, or energy source is the energy required to separate it into its two basic elements is exactly the same as the energy it produces when they are recombined. (combusted)
 *champrins*
Joined: 8/10/2007
Msg: 33
Attention Geniuses: Focus your energy
Posted: 10/1/2007 2:07:21 AM
Water is more essential than power for life. There is no way I would advocate altering water, or anything for that matter.

Wave power...nothing changes
Wind power...well maybe (think butterfly effect)
Hydro power..nothing changes
Solar power...nothing changes

Why cant we use whatever is available to us in our own locality?

You wont find solar being effective in Northern Sweden in winter, but in summer YES with 24 hours sun. In spring there is the melt (hydro). In winter? Scratches head. North wind! Wind power! Or they can buy wave power from neighbouring Norway.

In Australia some places have all sun and no water. Solar makes perfect sense for almost all households. Most places have a wind factor as well. For piped and commercial needs, we have hydro schemes, and we have an enormous unpopulated coastline that we could access to use use waves to turn turbines.

Almost zero waste products.

You wont find an overall solution for all places and all climates or even all times of year. But just because we have ONE source now (that elctrical outlet on your wall) why not have several? Does it have to be a competition?

And those who have excess wind or sun, can indeed sell it back into the grid. Why not?

Interesting post on gravity...and time. Relatively unknown and a bit of an interest of mine. And energy and what happens at different speeds of vibration. (not what we are talking about here)
 Aknightrmor
Joined: 5/19/2007
Msg: 34
Attention Geniuses: Focus your energy
Posted: 10/1/2007 2:12:49 AM
In a highly controlled environment with extreme security precautions against environmental contamination:

Genetically alter sea creatures or micro-organisms to adapt to living in high concentrations of water and processing something into a gas or scum that can be collected for fuel.
 CharlesEdm
Joined: 9/16/2006
Msg: 35
Attention Geniuses: Focus your energy
Posted: 10/1/2007 2:27:02 AM

The idea that a homeowner fits their house with a solar panel and sends excess energy to a grid to reduce the costs of electricity to people without solar panels is proposterous!!!


I've heard that your meter will actually run backwards. theoretically you could get credit for your energy production, but don't expect to get rich :P
 crazylilting
Joined: 8/11/2006
Msg: 36
Attention Geniuses: Focus your energy
Posted: 10/1/2007 4:57:50 AM

The idea that a homeowner fits their house with a solar panel and sends excess energy to a grid to reduce the costs of electricity to people without solar panels is proposterous!!!


I'm sorry i must of miss typed that i meant that it would reduce your own electrical costs. It used to be that you had to have batteries to store the energy that is being generated by your panels because if you tied your panels to the grid they only payed you a small portion of what you buy the power from the supplier. However the batteries are a pain and have to be vented so it is a costly proposition that is not good for the environment either as they don't last forever.

Now some suppliers actually pay you exactly what you pay them making a battery system less necessary unless your worried about power outages caused by your provider.

crazylilting
 *champrins*
Joined: 8/10/2007
Msg: 37
Attention Geniuses: Focus your energy
Posted: 10/1/2007 7:04:58 AM

I've heard that your meter will actually run backwards. theoretically you could get credit for your energy production, but don't expect to get rich


It is happening already. And if you have put back in more than you have taken out, they send YOU a check! Some people have all kinds of little producers going. The problem being, most people dont know it exists and is already a happening thing, and those people are just 'taking out' so the power has to be produced somewhere else in large quantities.

There is an interesting building in Melbourne Australia, designed to be almost self sufficient. And we are talking high rise BIG building here! It recycles almost everything within the actual building. Uses recycled water with some ingenious devices for cooling (and capturing cool...and capturing heat) then applying it through the opposing end of the day, and its external power usage is so SO amazingly almost nonexistent.

Now this isnt a mud brick dwelling being lived in by hippies. This is a corporate office building with all the power using stuff of any other office building.

If it can be done in a building that size, in a traditionally HIGH power use environment, think what power we could save from having to be produced if other 'ordinary' people adopted these practises.

Use daytime HEAT to warm at night. Use night time COLD to cool during the day etc. You wont need to rip so much out of the grid.

As it is now....(almost all OUT of grid) measurements are made in how much power we need to produce to replace the amount of power generated by coal/nuclear or whatever. But if we didnt need to take as much out, we wouldnt have to produce as much commercially, and we wouldnt BLEED a lot of it over the vast distances it has to travel. Direct to source and almost nil wastage means it is so much more efficient?
 CharlesEdm
Joined: 9/16/2006
Msg: 38
Attention Geniuses: Focus your energy
Posted: 10/1/2007 9:50:11 AM
It happens on a country by country basis. I'm sorry to say that we don't currently receive checks in Canada. I heard the complaint at a solar power conference.
 yna6
Joined: 1/21/2007
Msg: 39
Attention Geniuses: Focus your energy
Posted: 10/1/2007 3:41:13 PM
tell the freakin' gov't to get the hell out of private enterprise and to stay off private property. If I want ot suink a "torpedo-type" generator in the river flowing within my land, then I should have a right to do so. It is underwater, does not affect boating navigation, nor wildlife. IF I want to stick a windmill on my property, I shouldn't have to go through years of red tape and BS in order to do so. I should be able to get gov't grants to help pay for it. I should be able to have the electrical company come in free of charge to install a meter that measures what I add to the system, and charge them for it.

Until then...we're stuck.
 arbutus
Joined: 9/23/2007
Msg: 40
Attention Geniuses: Focus your energy
Posted: 10/1/2007 6:46:37 PM
tides. I've seen folks on the beach rig a buoy up to a lever. Sure, it's very slow, but the mechanics are simple. I expect one of these geniuses could mastermind larger scale implementation.
 sum1reel
Joined: 6/5/2005
Msg: 41
Attention Geniuses: Focus your energy
Posted: 10/1/2007 7:50:13 PM
^


I believe we need a quantum leap like we had going to the silicone chip.


.........i agree, because these fuel cells and batteries have great limitations....look at the hybrid vehicles for example.......what gonna happen when the battery packs themselves wear out and need replacement?........batteries is not the way to go!

solar energy is promising but the limitations are in certain geographic locations where pple don't get enuff sunlite.......nobody is gonna pay thousands of dollars to put in a solar device for just a few months outta the year..........the gov won't assist you in putting it in because it doesn't matter to them how much energy is used in the home setting...the consumer has to pay the bill regardless!........Btw, energy companies lobby politicians to dissuade them from encouraging alternate energy production......these companies will fight tooth and nail to maintain the status quo!
 svj
Joined: 9/15/2007
Msg: 42
Attention Geniuses: Focus your energy
Posted: 10/1/2007 8:37:58 PM
^^^ I wouldn't go that far. Battery technology can be greatly (and easily) increased. However, battery technology is on the "restricted" list. Energy and auto companies buy up the tech and mothball it.
 Aknightrmor
Joined: 5/19/2007
Msg: 43
Attention Geniuses: Focus your energy
Posted: 10/1/2007 8:57:43 PM
When I said it was proposterous to produce for oneself and let the excess help other people, I was just kidding...

And again, what about my idea of genetically engineering an organism to biologically process something into a useable gas or scum/waste or how about goats that shit flammable turds.......

The company I worked for produced chemicals for gene markers or some kind of chemical that gave off a signal to scientists who used them to detect that their engineered organisms were giving off what was desired.
 PSUgrad
Joined: 10/12/2005
Msg: 44
Attention Geniuses: Focus your energy
Posted: 10/2/2007 10:52:05 PM
To break it down to the most basic form: according to Einstein's most famous equation, energy and mass are conserved and interchangable. From his equation, 1 gram of mass completely annihilated and converted into energy would equate to ~25,000,000 kilowatt hours. Now if it was somehow possible for us to convert any mass completely into energy, conversations like this would be obsolete!
 CharlesEdm
Joined: 9/16/2006
Msg: 45
Attention Geniuses: Focus your energy
Posted: 10/2/2007 10:57:27 PM
It's hard to harness an nuclear explosion.
 PSUgrad
Joined: 10/12/2005
Msg: 46
Attention Geniuses: Focus your energy
Posted: 10/2/2007 11:24:22 PM

It's hard to harness an nuclear explosion.
That's not exactly true. But, you seem to be referring to the energy expended from nuclei when the nuclear bonds are either broken or formed. I'm talking about complete conversion of mass into energy. Containment of the energy would be the second step, first step would be finding a way to make it a reality.
 CharlesEdm
Joined: 9/16/2006
Msg: 47
Attention Geniuses: Focus your energy
Posted: 10/3/2007 12:27:57 AM
I'm saying we can't handle the massive energy release as it stands. A larger explosion isn't going to make it easier to deal with.
 *champrins*
Joined: 8/10/2007
Msg: 48
Attention Geniuses: Focus your energy
Posted: 10/3/2007 3:17:04 AM

To break it down to the most basic form: according to Einstein's most famous equation, energy and mass are conserved and interchangable. From his equation, 1 gram of mass completely annihilated and converted into energy would equate to ~25,000,000 kilowatt hours. Now if it was somehow possible for us to convert any mass completely into energy, conversations like this would be obsolete!


I am <======thats excited folks

Its not a case of explolsion like fission or combustion.

Physical matter is actually almost all energy. Little bits of something floating in a sea of nothing. Or energy!

Being able to somehow 'extract' the existing energy, would reduce the actual particles to a little tiny pebble that would weight a ton. Well I dont know actual measurements but ya know...

And energy (I am ) when vibrating (as opposed to exploding in a massive release) can ALTER a whole heap of things.

Might this not be the quantum leap we are seeking?

Until now we have been trying to improve on existing ideas. This would be an alternative way to ACHIEVE the outcome by EXTRACTING energy, rather than CREATING then storing energy.

Let your imagination soar for a moment.

Imagine taking a wheat bag full full of say...sawdust. Pour that into the 'extractor' at home, and as energy is extracted, the sawdust is gradually becoming more dense, until you have something the size of a pin head in there. Time to top up.

Appliances might be designed to use different vibrations of that energy. Motors and engines as we know them now might not be needed at all.

Ok I know that is simplistic and like a jetson movie right now but...

Isnt our very thinking confined by trying to find power for existing motors and technologies? Could we turn it upside down? Those appliances WILL change if we were able to extract energy this way and truly be able to understand those vibration levels.

Think about the computers of old. My my! All those tapes running (that broke) and punch cards and using only 2B (was it?) pencils (lead) and they were HUGE! And they kept getting bigger and more tapes and buttons and switches and slots.

The chip was invented. And now? How small are these things now? It wasnt an 'improvement' but a whole new and different concept that provided the 'solution'.

I dont see any of those LARGE room sized slow cumbersome computers around now. Do you?

Lets learn from history. Dont focus on the appliances we have. Lets focus on what we actually want to achieve. The rest will follow.

Lovin this thread :)
 PSUgrad
Joined: 10/12/2005
Msg: 49
Attention Geniuses: Focus your energy
Posted: 10/3/2007 9:41:05 AM

I'm saying we can't handle the massive energy release as it stands. A larger explosion isn't going to make it easier to deal with.
We've harnessed the energy of the sun indirectly (solar panels, hydro, wind, etc.) and directly (fusion), so I don't see why this would be that far of a stretch. If it's a matter of logistics for you, I could add a disclaimer to my suggestion: This does not need to been done instantaneously, but can be done over a reasonable amount of time. For example, coal does not expend all of its energy instantaneously.

As far as human capacity to make it a reality:

"The young do not know enough to be prudent, and therefore they attempt the impossible, and achieve it, generation after generation."

~Pearl S. Buck
 Aknightrmor
Joined: 5/19/2007
Msg: 50
Attention Geniuses: Focus your energy
Posted: 10/4/2007 1:51:21 AM
Artificially create massive thunderstorms and harness the lightning's energy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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