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 AUTHOR
 AceOfSpace
Joined: 5/28/2007
Msg: 308
Why are most men looking for Friends with Benefits?Page 5 of 50    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41)

I've answered your questions straight up. Please give me a straight answer. Please don't take my words and turn them around and then claim you've answered. A 7th grader can see through that.

Qualities and their signs. Surely you can describe them.

There is one difference between what I want and what a man of the '50s expected as his prerogative. If she isn't already going my way, I don't feel entitled to force a change in her direction. I'm merely asking for the same degree of respect with regard to mine.

Pray, answer a question with an answer, and not more questions. I assume you want to lead me somewhere with your leading questions. Why not just cut to the chase?
 AceOfSpace
Joined: 5/28/2007
Msg: 315
Why are most men looking for Friends with Benefits?
Posted: 12/24/2007 12:51:37 AM
I read #375, which pointed me to your profile. I read your profile. Honestly, I didn't see anything in there that wasn't common to dozens of other profiles.

Do you know why we no longer believe that light requires a medium through which to travel? Because no evidence of it has ever been found.

I have a personal rule, one that keeps me from making a jerk of myself. It's my three-strikes rule. I'll ask three times. If I hear "no" or a woman demures three times, I stop asking. So, in light of the fact that you can't or won't articulate the qualities in a way that can be understood, other than to say, "someone like me," I can only conclude that you can't really articulate it in so many words. So be it.

I'm a bit leery of going into details about my personal preferences in public, but if you want to take that discussion off line I'm willing to do so in private e-mail and we can post our mutual conclusions without going into gory details in public. Perhaps some useful information will come out that way.

The way I see it, there are two ways to lose a debate. You can "lose" it, or you can "win" it. If by winning no one learns anything, everybody loses and it's so much hot air. So I'm willing to go along with your analysis of me, just not in public.

I will say this much. The last woman that I was willing to go the distance with was a newly minted MD, a surfer in outstanding physical condition, and someone with whom I have a common spiritual practice. Why didn't it work out between us? I was committed to finishing my MBA here in California and she had just gotten a pratice in Hawaii. I met her a month before it was time for her to go.

So, I ended it before things got to be too painful and distracting for both of us. Did it hurt? You bet. I railed at God for months. Do I regret it? No. She deserves to have a life that works with a man who can actually be there for her, and I pray that he turns up.
 AceOfSpace
Joined: 5/28/2007
Msg: 316
Why are most men looking for Friends with Benefits?
Posted: 12/24/2007 2:32:42 AM
Just a curious question...does that mean she has to make at least as much money as you do? For example...what I do for a living just pays ok...my talents and degree aren't big money makers...so when a man says equally?..Does he mean the same amount of money? My experience says that men still tend to have talents that pay better?


Not to me. I don't believe that pulling one's weight necessarily means contributing equally. But it does mean contributing in a way that is substantial, so that we can both take pride in your accomplishments and celebrate the rewards that _you_ earn.
 tchofclas
Joined: 12/24/2005
Msg: 317
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History
Why are most men looking for Friends with Benefits?
Posted: 12/24/2007 4:31:20 AM
Daisypetals, I have read ALL of the posts, from the beginning. Personally, I think a lot of so called relationships are nothing different than friends with benefits, but to each their own, or as Dyno said, live and let live already. But you are making it clear your opinion is nothing more than "My way, or the highway". Fortunately, there are a lot of intelligent people on here, capable of making their OWN opinions on what they want to do with their lives, but of course if they choose a different path than the one you preach, and that's what you are doing, preaching, hell fire and brimstone to all who don't choose to follow what you have decreed to be the only way, not only will they never have happy relationships, but for sure they will rot in hell, too!
If your plan works so well, why are there so many divorces, and why are you here? Trolling for more book fodder? The fact you have a book out there that more than likely extols the views you have on here is downright scary, as a lot of people think the written word is law, and don't realize anyone can write a book.
And you are still sidestepping Ace's question? Maybe you need to reread his posts to get it. I think he ask a very direct question, and it should be simple for you to answer it, but we're still waiting.
To all the posters who have expressed their opinions in such articulate ways, I thank you. I am sure that is what the OP was looking for in the first place, opinions. But no matter how well you express yourself, unfortunately the old adage, "you can't win a pissing match with a skunk" is still true!
 AceOfSpace
Joined: 5/28/2007
Msg: 321
Why are most men looking for Friends with Benefits?
Posted: 12/24/2007 9:06:23 AM
Wow, been here done this!! I met someone online over 2 years agao, we started in a relationship and yes I still think of him even though he was an abuser what not, call me nuts!! Anyway, we broke up numerous times over the years because I wanted respect and to date only one man


This doesn't sound like FWB to me. This sounds exactly like they system of mutual lies that Daisypetals was talking about. A friend wouldn't mooch, wouldn't abuse, and would recognize that constancy is more important to you than getting your itch scratched. A friend simply would not have sex with you given your values.

I have a very good friend who shares your sensibilities and I don't have sex with her because I want to keep her friendship--even though there are times when we both would really enjoy it.

BTW, women who have different values than yours might also have morals. To me, morals are about making choices that reduce the risk of needless harm to self and others.

Before the Pill and penecillin, "illicit" sex had direct consequences that could ruin peoples' lives and so impulse control was _very_ important. With HIV/AIDS and other STDs, unprotected sex with untested partners is still risky and dangerous, and therefore immoral.

However, with technology comes more freedom to explore in safety, and some people, including women, want to do that. Is hang-gliding immoral just because it could get you killed? It's still risky now, but it would have been sheer suicide when I was a kid!

I'm just saying that if you're still hurting over that guy (who was clearly a bad choice for you), you might want to cut yourself a little slack before going after what you really want.

Back in the bad old days of rigid morality, the fact that you'd ever been with a man like that would have tainted you for life. Thank goodness that's over! So, even if you don't agree with all of these adventurers and don't want to go where they go, the fact that they've gone there and lived to tell the tale has brought you some real benefit. Now you can look back on that episode as a simple mistake and not a scandal that would destroy your hopes forever. You don't have to lie about it. You aren't a "fallen woman."

Yes, I guess I am starting to get tired of the rush to judgment about the "immorality" of others by those who benefit from their willingness to take risks.

I'll take simple gratitude over heartless moralizing any day.
 lancer5250
Joined: 3/14/2007
Msg: 323
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History
Why are most men looking for Friends with Benefits?
Posted: 12/24/2007 9:29:43 AM
Probably for the same reason that women like you make repeated, unfounded generalizations about men.

"Most men" aren't looking for what you either think they are, or you say they are.

And judging by the tone of your post, I'd say that the men you know are looking to not put up with the judgmental mentality you have, or the demands you try to place on them.

By the by: You don't have the right to judge anyone else's choices. You aren't allowed to decide for anyone else other than yourself what is appropriate, right, moral, etc.

Merry Christmas!
 AceOfSpace
Joined: 5/28/2007
Msg: 325
Why are most men looking for Friends with Benefits?
Posted: 12/24/2007 10:01:07 AM
Women deserve to have choices and to have their choices _respected._

The signals that I look for in a potential lifetime partner are these. Your mileage may vary.

1) Is she self-directed? Does she know where she's going in her life and is she doing everything in her power to get there?

2) Is she responsible? Does she pull her own weight, or is she looking for a knight in shining armor to ride in and rescue her?

3) Is she growing? Will she continue to develop herself or is it a what you see is what you get deal with her? If she's complacent, I'm gonna get bored and want to move on.

4) Is she taking good care of her body? I'm simply not interested in someone who doesn't attend to her own health.

I could go on, but you get the idea. I want to be with a woman who enjoys me but doesn't need me for anything--who chooses to be with me on a particular day because she sees something in me that day--not because she's developed some hormonal attachment that she doesn't have the guts to face up to when being with me no longer serves _her._

I don't consider that sort of "attachment" healthy for either of us, and if the only thing that's holding a woman to me is the fear of grief, we're done. I am simply not responsible for managing her feelings. If she wants to burden me with that, she's not partner material as far as I'm concerned.

That doesn't mean I'm not sensitive to the pain. I've been through things too and I can certainly empathize. But there is grief and loss involved in _any_ relationship, whether it's a ONS and the recriminations that follow, a FKBUDDY and the unmet yearnings that arise, an FWB and the inevitable wondering about why not more, or a 50-year marriage when you know that one or the other of you is going to die first.

Perhaps the simplest definition of love is a willingness to endure the grief.

If the aim of life was simply to avoid grief, Daisypetals formula could work for everyone. But far too many people confuse the pain of grief with the stigma of guilt, and the kind of moralizing that used to pass for morals just made things worse for everyone. So, you tried the FKBUDDY thing and it didn't work for you. Fair enough.

If it no longer feels good, stop doing it!
 El_Mariachi
Joined: 4/21/2007
Msg: 330
Why are most men looking for Friends with Benefits?
Posted: 12/24/2007 7:01:53 PM

Sounds like you had an EWB (enemy with benefits)


Is that the set up where the angry sex happens? That could be fun.
 El_Mariachi
Joined: 4/21/2007
Msg: 332
Why are most men looking for Friends with Benefits?
Posted: 12/24/2007 8:08:32 PM

ditch the quebecoise reference!


Nothin doing.. I am what I yam.
 zangie
Joined: 5/30/2007
Msg: 333
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History
Why are most men looking for Friends with Benefits?
Posted: 12/24/2007 9:36:06 PM
Broward: Even I would rather have a friend with benefits, than an enemy with benefits..lol..

I hate when I have enemies..

BTW- Everyone:





 tchofclas
Joined: 12/24/2005
Msg: 335
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History
Why are most men looking for Friends with Benefits?
Posted: 12/26/2007 2:17:16 PM
Just did a Google search on Oxytocin. It is a drug I am familiar with as it is used in horses when mares don't pass the afterbirth, as well as tocause milt to let down. Used this way in cattle as well, and I knew it is what they use to induce labor in humans. What I did not know is that it is released during orgasm of BOTH sexes. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxytocin) So Daisypetals, seems that would shoot down your theory, as the male should be getting just as attached as the female, hmmm?
 kitelover3
Joined: 10/26/2007
Msg: 337
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History
Why are most men looking for Friends with Benefits?
Posted: 12/26/2007 6:03:02 PM
Well I sure would like to know the answer to this one. Yes most men are only looking for fwb. I am on other sites to and its always the same. "If I'm nice to you do i get sex?" I have heard this so much. No different here.
 Javan2
Joined: 7/9/2005
Msg: 340
Why are most men looking for Friends with Benefits?
Posted: 12/26/2007 11:47:43 PM
From what I've read here so far. I find it funny that the men who want the FWB situation get no credit here for being open & honest with women. A man could lie to a woman & still date multiple women. So, if a man is being honest; he gets degraded & put down, huh? Ladies continue to complain about men who want a FWB situation & soon many of them (as if so many don't already) will lie to you about their agenda. Think women !!! The men who tell you that they only want a FWB situation; are the ones who are being honest with you. Too many of the liars will talk right off about rings & marriage.
 zangie
Joined: 5/30/2007
Msg: 343
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Why are most men looking for Friends with Benefits?
Posted: 12/27/2007 12:15:45 PM

That's definitely my motivation, I'm into the degradation thing!


Well, that explains a lot...lol..


The men who tell you that they only want a FWB situation; are the ones who are being honest with you.


I'm not complaining that they are honest..I like honesty, I appreciate it..I was sad that so many feel that way in the first place....

Also, to add to frzn...I'm not looking to get married either..hate to say never, but, it's not on my agenda at the moment..just exclusivity, committment, and feelings...
 Cowgirlup822
Joined: 7/19/2007
Msg: 344
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Why are most men looking for Friends with Benefits?
Posted: 12/27/2007 4:58:42 PM
That is the best question.. I think the answer is that we are expected not to have morals or self respect anymore. They are not common, apparently. i have had the same guy ask me to sleep with him eight different times and each time I have told him not without a comitted relationship. I finally asked him what made him think I was going to answer him differently this time? his response... time. There is no comprehension of what I am saying to him, he just thinks if he keeps asking, eventually I'll give in. Guys, we are out here, the ones who still have morals and self respect, waiting for the ones who appreciate us.
 zangie
Joined: 5/30/2007
Msg: 346
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Why are most men looking for Friends with Benefits?
Posted: 12/27/2007 7:27:05 PM

The "self-respect" to me is the silliest concept of all. In the current era of equality in the workplace, and societal expectations of men and women that are roughly equal, why would there be a difference between men and women, in terms of sexual behavior, and why would one acting on one's needs be contrary to "self respect"? In fact, to repress one's needs and the normal response to them, would seem to be emotionally unhealthy to me.


For someone I know to be pretty pragmatic, that's an awful idealistic view to take melo...it isn't representative of the real world..some men agree with you (though, in my experience, some are just paying it lip service in another way to "convince" you)...some don't..I'm sure you've read the posts from the very extreme of this side..women who have had several sexual partners, let alone, sex for the fun of it are s***s, w****s, ad infinitum...

For whatever reason, I actually know more, who even if they publicly proclaim women and men are equal in matter of sex..privately don't believe any such thing..men have tradition and biology to overcome too...


Having said that, I am not motivated by others perceptions of me, (obviously..lol). I am, however, motivated by what feels "right" or "moral" to me..and being a somewhat spiritual person, have looked to a higher power for my answers..as much as we would all like to believe that "morals' are universal...they really aren't..everyone has their own..and I for one, would not make a judgment on someone's else's moral beliefs..I am not arrogant enough to think I have the answers for all..only the answers that work for me..(hoping that most people agree on issues like murder and rape , at least)...sex is no where near that black and white.

And I venture to guess that all people (men and women) have different levels of need...sexually and otherwise..and none holds the absolute for the others. We all, aren't we, basically choosing to do what works for us.

I though about this a lot...I want sex...I don't "need" it...proven by the fact that I can go without for periods of time, and though I miss it..it isn't painful. I don't wither up and die. I don't stop wanting it either. Now, I may need it as part of a loving relationship, but that's an entirely different thing isn't it?

I can't speak for anyone else...but, I am not repressing anything, because I am waiting to meet the guy who really rocks my world, before I act on this want. If I was motivated by my wants, I would be having sex all the time. If if was a true need for me..I might even make bad decisions for me to satisfy it..I find that to be a healthy thing..

Many women (certainly not all)..just see sex as this really incredible thing you only share with someone special..I refuse to see that as a "defect", or weakness. Just a difference.

For those of us who do feel this way..FWB's are insulting, and pointless. Nothing wrong with it if it works for you. But, please, don't say it's the only option..or the only right one.

Incidentally, many on this thread, seem to be describing FWB's in a pretty idealistic way too..and if that is your experience...well, good for you..but, in my entire life I was never asked to be part of such an arrangement until I got online..and 100% of the offers for it have been by men who didn't even KNOW me yet..it was their offer from the get go. Even you might find that insulting? So, maybe the true definition is as you say..however, the general online dating world uses it as an euphemism for " sex only' relationships...and you might not be aware of that..being male..but I can't even count how many times it's been suggested to me..and I won't bore you with my story of how very wrong that can go...
 Randominternetguy
Joined: 12/25/2006
Msg: 348
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Why are most men looking for Friends with Benefits?
Posted: 12/27/2007 7:56:42 PM
Msg 454:


What I did not know is that it is released during orgasm of BOTH sexes.


Not just during orgasm, but caressing of certain areas of the body (e.g. breasts)

However, estrogen enhances the effect of oxytocin, while testosterone inhibits it.

Msg 466:


Friends with benefits is a nice way to say "**** buddy". 9 times out of 10, you're "friends" BECAUSE of the benefits


While I'm sure there are cases of people wanting to be inaccurate about their intentions, fundamentally "friends because of benefits" is not friends with benefits.

Msg 467:


A true FWB involves more than just sex


If the truth of the situation is you would not spend time with someone without the benefits, then I believe using the term friend is incorrect. When I think of my own life, I have game buddies, work buddies, and sports buddies, and I don't associate with them outside the specific area of common interest. In that sense, a sex buddy is a very consistent useage of the terminology. Very in depth, specific activities where the subject matter is what brings us together, not the personal relationships.

While this is not a definition, my friends are people I would make arrangements to see without knowing what we are going to do, because I enjoy spending time with them, pretty much no matter what we do. The personal relationships are what bring us together, not the specific activities.

It's been argued in other threads that a relationship without sex is called friendship. I tend to disagree with that sentiment. A friendship with a romantic element is a relationship. Now some people equate sex and romance, or sex is sacred. Therefore, if we are having sex we are a couple whether we agreed to it or not. I am of the opinion we are a couple when we explicitly agree we are such.

Being a couple should be explicitly discussed and agreed upon, in my opinion. I don't believe being a couple is something that happens by default, or an unspoken, implicit understanding. Just because some people get married for the wrong reasons, some people have children for the wrong reasons, some people get into relationships for the wrong reasons, and some people have non-exclusive sex for the wrong reasons, doesn't mean that applies to everyone.

Often the case is a person has several issues going on inside of them, and they manifest themselves as various behaviors. Many people feel lonely, and just about anything they do as an indirect way of dealing with that is probably a mistake, whether it's finding a FB or a boy/girlfriend.

If you want to talk biology, many men seperate sex and love because of testosterone's inhibition effect on oxytocin, and many women connect sex and love because of estrogen's amplification effect on oxytocin. Now while that may be statistically significant for any large group, it may not be for two specific individuals.

I think you will spend a lot of wasted energy trying to change the behavior of the other gender. Accept them as they are and mingle with them, or wait till you find that special one and delete/block the rest. And if you are unhappy that leaves you with no one, maybe some self assessment is in order.

Bob
 Letsmeetncwhathappens
Joined: 12/22/2007
Msg: 349
Why are most men looking for Friends with Benefits?
Posted: 12/27/2007 8:07:34 PM
Can anyone say that if they had a chance to be in a relationship with someone they really clicked with they would not want that? I think friends with benefits usually occurs when one person is truly interested in the other person and hopes something more will happen. I think more often then not the other person is just waiting to find someone who they really are interested to come along. Basically though more often then not one person is not going to like this arrangement.
 LauraPaige
Joined: 12/14/2007
Msg: 354
Why are most men looking for Friends with Benefits?
Posted: 12/28/2007 4:47:05 AM
Coz most men these days r f*ckers

lol

I speak the truth
 tchofclas
Joined: 12/24/2005
Msg: 355
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Why are most men looking for Friends with Benefits?
Posted: 12/28/2007 5:33:22 AM
I think if some people who profess to be so adamantly against fwb were to be honest with themselves about some past relationships, they would realize in retrospect that's what they actually were, although the term may have been non existent at the time. Having been married twice, I don't feel I really want to go that route again, though never say never, lol. However, that doesn't give me the right to tell everyone who reads a forum they should never get married again, just because it's not my choice. Which seems to be the general consensus of people who are against fwb. Personally, I think it is all about freedom of choice. To all those who say someone always gets hurt because one person has more feelings than the other, I defy you to tell me this has never happened in a past relationship, or even a marriage for that matter. I think an equal commitment of feelings is probably a rarity. And if you read all the posts with an open mind, you should be able to see there is a difference between the terms, fb and fwb. And if someone you've just met asks for fwb, it surely has nothing to do with friends.I don't understand why some people can't see there is a difference between apples and oranges.
I think my biggest beef with some posters on a fwb thread is that fact they want to dictate how other people should live their lives. I'm old enough to remember when people who 'lived together' were for sure going to hell, so that must mean there is plenty of room in heaven for those 'holier than thou' these days. Maybe it's off topic, but so many will say an older woman/younger man relationship will not last, he'll leave her for someone younger, but doesn't the same thing happen in marriages of people with similar ages. If two people are happy with what is working for them, why is it anyone else's business, if no one else is getting hurt?
If you read the posts with an open mind, you realize those advocating fwb, both sexes, on the whole, are people who have first hand experience, and the biggest naysayers haven't been there, done that. I think Mr Dyno expressed it best, live and let live.
Disclaimer: notice I've said what __I_ think, and feel, not what you should!!! (And if after reading this, you e-mail me for either term,ain't gonna happen, lol, 'cause you ain't my friend, and I'd never do fb, fwb I'm maybe open to, haven't decided, gotta find the right friend first!
 El_Mariachi
Joined: 4/21/2007
Msg: 362
Why are most men looking for Friends with Benefits?
Posted: 12/28/2007 3:59:24 PM

Because they're cheap, have no feelings, can have sex without loving someone, etc.


Good God!

There's so many things going on there, that I can't even pinpoint a place to start.
 rdcnorm
Joined: 3/7/2007
Msg: 368
Why are most men looking for Friends with Benefits?
Posted: 12/28/2007 4:57:56 PM
I'm kind of wondering if most men are pigs,, may I suggest looking up intimate encounter,,

It wasn't till a few years ago,, I heard the phrase Friends with Benefits,, I was floored,, with the meaning,, That same night, I was asked( bye a woman) if I would be intersted..
I can not tell you how many times after that,, it has happened to me,, my point,, their are some woman who want the same thing as some men,, it's not just some men...

If it works,, go for it,, if not to each their own,,
 rdcnorm
Joined: 3/7/2007
Msg: 373
Why are most men looking for Friends with Benefits?
Posted: 12/29/2007 7:02:39 AM

Geeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeze . . . guys . . . either way . . . ya are in the Barn!


Just goes to show that I haven't tried everything. Bestiality is not among my experiences.
good one ........

I wonder,, Cat house
Brothel
Sporting house
House of ill repute
Red-light district
= must not have straw on the floor.......with lights,,, cash or credit


 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 377
Why are most men looking for Friends with Benefits?
Posted: 12/29/2007 10:32:19 AM

Not sure about the purpose of all of the name-calling.
If you don't want a FWB relationship..then don't get in one...
Or leave one that's starting to turn into one.

Last time I checked,FWB is a choice....

Yep!

"Friends" = established friendship
"w/benefits" = adding to that friendship that which benefits BOTH people.

Not that complicated.
 AceOfSpace
Joined: 5/28/2007
Msg: 382
Why are most men looking for Friends with Benefits?
Posted: 12/29/2007 12:13:09 PM

Not understanding something though, doesn't make it "wrong", and unless one is a devotee of Prof. McKinnon, who views all heterosexual sex as "rape", it is quite possible for two people who like each other to have sex, and for both to "win" from the experience.


Hey Melofelo, just a quibble about McKinnon. She doesn't actually say that all heterosexual sex is rape, but that within a patriarchal society rape is implied in any sexual contact. Why? Because of the inherent imbalance of power. Can a woman really say "no" to her husband without running the risk of being cast out amongst men who will take advantage of her? As long as she's with her husband, he's at least providing her with material support and keeping her safe from all the other men. He might even love her. However, the difference in power still acts as a coercive force.

Until women have their own ability to secure their own safety and material support, or more to the point, have their needs and safety honored by all men and not just their husbands, the threat of rape colors every male-female interaction. That's her point as I understand it.
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