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 AUTHOR
 AceOfSpace
Joined: 5/28/2007
Msg: 388
Why are most men looking for Friends with Benefits?Page 6 of 50    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41)

It would be hard to fit that FWB into the McKinnon definition of an inherent imbalance of power ...


Yes, I'm aware of that. I actually think that the relationship you had would be an exception that she might well have approved of.

I agree that some women here are arguing that because of the different hormonal responses involved between women and men, there is only one respectable option on the menu of relationship choices for women.

I see two challenges to the logic of freedom of choice and personal responsibility when it comes to relationships. The first is the blind adherence to traditional mores which assume that women require the protection of men. That's the same logic that once justified the divine authority of kings. It's simply nonsense.

The second is blind adherence to the idea that because men were seen as the privileged class, all social ills are the fault of men. If we're equal, then we're equally responsible, regardless of the active or passive roles our predecessors might have adopted.

So for me the question isn't so much "who's at fault," as it is, "who's willing to put some effort into making things better." That includes thinking things through in order to see what valuable point a person might be making even when the expression of that point is ugly, painful, or otherwise hard to take.

The implicit threat of _deserved_ rape was implicit in the old rules of courtship. It's obvious once you look at it. Happily ever after means free from the threat of it, except of course when it's your husband who's horny and you're not. Then you must "submit." No, I don't like those old rules. I have no interest in being my beloved's keeper/jailer. However, if that's what it takes for me to be gratified sexually, and in fact the only respectable way it can happen for me, I could easily see myself slipping into that role and coming to see it as my due. Just ghastly.

So, I might not like McKinnon's accusatory tone, because it shows absolutely no compassion for the position of the male. And, I might despise her contempt toward men--which I do. However, I can't honestly deny the underlying logic of her argument. Can you?
 AceOfSpace
Joined: 5/28/2007
Msg: 389
Why are most men looking for Friends with Benefits?
Posted: 12/29/2007 1:26:59 PM

It doesn't show me how to prevent women from shifting into "permanent, exclusive relationship" mode, thereby forcing me to feel bad by destroying their illusion.


Yes, that's a tough one!
 AceOfSpace
Joined: 5/28/2007
Msg: 391
Why are most men looking for Friends with Benefits?
Posted: 12/29/2007 1:34:03 PM

Most women aren't capable of NOT shifting into a permanent, exclusive relationship, regardess of what they believe about themselves.


I think there's a difference between incapable and unwilling, and I'm betting on the latter. Whether that's reasonable or convenient is open to debate, but let's not condescend. Women are raised to want that and feel it is their due, and when they don't get it they feel cheated.

Whether that's any different than the ways in which men feel cheated because women are no longer willing to be the obedient and supportive and submissive wives that tradition said men were entitled to is subject to argument. My view is that you can either have equality, or complementary roles with unequal privileges, but not both.

I don't feel at all cheated by the fact that I can no longer expect a woman to be a submissive wife to me. Why would I want that if I can love, and be loved by, a woman who is my equal?
 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 392
Why are most men looking for Friends with Benefits?
Posted: 12/29/2007 1:38:23 PM

Most women aren't capable of NOT shifting into a permanent, exclusive relationship, regardess of what they believe about themselves.


Now, I had a couple of FWB things where the guy started steering into "permanent exclusive" waters, or an arrangement that would have become a "relationship by default."

Like I said in another forum, I learned to separate my heart from my sex organs, it was an excellent and empowering learning experience.But at the end of the day I prefer to drive them as a pair...
My perspective has changed. At this point I don't care to invest time and effort in something that isn't gonna go anywhere important. I'm not talking about dating a guy or having a relationship not work out. That's the way the cookie crmbles sometimes. But to wilfully involve myself in something that's mostly about sex with no prospect of it becoming a serious relationship? Right now I choose NOT to do that.
Cindy O
 AceOfSpace
Joined: 5/28/2007
Msg: 395
Why are most men looking for Friends with Benefits?
Posted: 12/29/2007 2:06:57 PM

Okeydokey... it takes both a boar and a sow to complete a 'friends with benefits' situation.


That sounds like a fkbuddy situation to me.

What happens between lifelong friends is actually nobody else's business.
 zangie
Joined: 5/30/2007
Msg: 396
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History
Why are most men looking for Friends with Benefits?
Posted: 12/29/2007 2:12:15 PM
That any FWB relationship, no matter how powerful the woman, is "obviously" a man "using" the woman. Which to me is a ridiculous argument to make, and one rebutted by the reality.


I would submit, Melo...that the women who are that "powerful", confident or whatever it is are still in the minority..kind of my point..and I refuse to accept that they are the only "good" women, and the rest of us are sick, emotionally unbalanced..or defective? More power to them if that is how they are....but, it isn't me, and isn't something I can fake...and I think enough of myself to believe I am still a good "woman", in many ways...


Most women aren't capable of NOT shifting into a permanent, exclusive relationship, regardess of what they believe about themselves.


Kinda my point...

So, like aceofspace says...what do we do to reconcile this obvious difference in the way we see these things..for those of us who do see it differently? Because, no amount of gentle (or aggressive) persuasion is going to change how I feel about it. I'm fifty...took me years to understand what works for me....and why....


Edit: guys..what you are describing sounds great..truth is most of the opportunities myself and most of the women on here are talking about, are not about life long friends ..they are about men looking for sex only relationships(on dating sites)..THEY call it FWB..if that is the only experience we have of it? Then that is what we think....and that is what I am sure the original poster is talking about...not ,these mutually agreed to things..you are defending something that isn't the subject...what we are really complaining about..isn't those types of relationships...great for you if that's your experience..our point is..on dating sites..it's called FWB...and we object to sex only relationships...and the fact that a lot of men think it's ok to suggest them?
 Dracoa79
Joined: 9/23/2007
Msg: 398
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History
Why are most men looking for Friends with Benefits?
Posted: 12/29/2007 2:17:11 PM

Because they're cheap, have no feelings, can have sex without loving someone, etc. They want to get their rocks off so they can concentrate on chasing some dollybird, taking her out on the town, etc. and then when they get horny, they have a fwb to screw over:(


Wow, sound bitter much? Besides, I think this post here says a lot about you as a person. I can't speak for anyone else, but I do love my friends, it may not be a romantic love, but there is more than one kind of love. Love for family, romantic love, and yes, even platonic love. IF I were to have a FWB type situation, there would be that platonic love for her, seeing as she would be my friend. Or maybe you just don't (at least didn't at the time of the quoted post) realize that the F in FWB stand for FRIENDS. Generally there is some sort of connection or bond between REAL friends, if you've never known that, either the knowledge or the experience, then I pity you for that.
 HeartoGold50f
Joined: 11/28/2007
Msg: 399
Why are most men looking for Friends with Benefits?
Posted: 12/29/2007 2:18:05 PM
Some have been hurt, and can't do the emotional thing at all!

Some are too lazy and just want sex!

Some are cheap, lazy and hurt! Its true...many males of all ages, told me that they are afraid of getting hurt again, but more told me they just want their cake and to eat it too...and why not if she gives it to him? I think its sad what our world has come to!

Making love for FWB? Is merely grunt, and groan...empty sex! I don't want that with my true friends anyway!

The classy men/women do not like FWB's...at least those w/morals, values, and INTEGRITY!!
 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 400
Why are most men looking for Friends with Benefits?
Posted: 12/29/2007 2:32:09 PM

I think that people are confusing f*ck buddy w/ FWB.

I'm not confusing anything. Both of these sex based arrangements require setting aside the premise that sex is another way of expressing love in a committed relationship. I am NOT saying that setting aside that premise is wrong. Oh HELL no. But it is more complicated than it sounds. All too often somebody gets attached, or the "ledger "gets unbalanced and somebody starts feeling "used",especially in that basic f*ck buddy arrangement.
Cindy O
 zangie
Joined: 5/30/2007
Msg: 401
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History
Why are most men looking for Friends with Benefits?
Posted: 12/29/2007 2:34:39 PM
What does she do. She throws her tits at him and practically rapes hi, in trying to keep him.


I have NEVER in my entire life done this..and you were the one that said stop muckraking..I don't go out with someone who says up front what they want and I don't have the same goal..I respect honesty..it's the dishonest ones that are causing the problems....

OK..and also the fact that more men seem to want them than don't ..it is disappointing for someone who doesn't.....
 zangie
Joined: 5/30/2007
Msg: 407
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History
Why are most men looking for Friends with Benefits?
Posted: 12/29/2007 11:48:41 PM

Relationships that began with an emphasis of "friends first" may well have achieved that, and while the deep "love" never came, it was nice being together, and you naturally moved to sex being part of it. That's FWB, even if never labeled as such.


Sigh...I find it necessary to point out...I'm actually not a proponent of the "friends first " thing....It's not on my profile, and it's not my intent...friendships develop over time with everyone....my point is romance and romantic feelings..that's what I'm looking for..the friendship follows..I've never dated just to date...

And no, I've never experienced that...because I don't keep dating or sleep with men who have no romantic interest in me, or I in them...I have many male "friends"...but, I don't sleep with any of them...changes the dynamic too much, for one thing...feels weird to me too...I'd sooner sleep with a hot stranger...
 TipicalCanada
Joined: 5/27/2007
Msg: 416
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History
Why are most men looking for Friends with Benefits?
Posted: 1/28/2008 10:15:52 AM
It's funny you mention this because I've had girls who did this also its not just restricted to men. You notice it all over the military. It's not just the guys hooking up with girls from port to port its the women too.

I keep in contact with many girls everywhere from scottland to Abu Dhabi.
 Vannili
Joined: 7/8/2008
Msg: 425
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History
Why are most men looking for Friends with Benefits?
Posted: 7/26/2008 3:19:48 AM
These men were burned by divorces or some others reason. Some person doesn't care about feelings of attachment they only care orgasm. Some men goes to prostitutes to pay for sex, but they got smarter, they go to bars and prey for drunk women with a little sweet talk ,they can get it for nothing. and those friends that give benefits mostly are married and those men are just their spare.....
 VaFishnetstockings4u
Joined: 9/3/2006
Msg: 427
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History
Why are most men looking for Friends with Benefits?
Posted: 7/26/2008 8:11:52 AM
I have been on POF since November 2007 - I'm finding that many are on here
saying they want L/T but afraid to commit. Then the other part of them wants
somewhat of relationship that involves sex this is where friends with benfits comes
into the picture.

They have been burned and are scared of committing to a,
Fun healthy relationship and well then they get selfish
say lets have FWB's nothing else who knows
babe it may work out.

The point I'm making here is a to them it's something that is convent,
for them till they one they truly want comes into this lovely picture.

I've also been told who knows maybe after being a FWB's item we may just grow on
each other .
I bite my tounge on this one and it tares me up to see grown ups like this
that want there cake and eat it too kinda thing.

I want no parts of FWB's cause it to me
is away for them having pleasure with no strings attached and hot sex with no feeling.
Sorry I'll pass and will not settle for less when I can have the best.

Great Topic
Thank you for posting it.

Happy Dating All , Enjoy The Rest Of The Summer

Remember - Don't settle for sloppy seconds when you can be #1
Yours,Brenny
 Turn On My Brain
Joined: 5/6/2008
Msg: 432
Why are most men looking for Friends with Benefits?
Posted: 8/28/2008 8:34:21 AM
very simple answer lots of really sturpid self absorbed people who prey on women/men with no self esteem, so DON"T DO IT and quit complaining if you do, YOU are responsible for your actions quit blaming everyone else, a little SELF ANALYSIS will help oh yes, what's with the all my friends think I'm great just once I would like to here I am not perfect and was responsible for my marriage/relationship not working, but alas too many people wouldn't appreciate the truth would they , we all make dumb mistakes but like the politcians we blame, we lie to ourselves all the time
 Vonstallin
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 439
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Why are most men looking for Friends with Benefits?
Posted: 8/28/2008 4:47:24 PM
I will admit Im looking for a Best Friend whom one day will be my wife for life.
But at times you find some women that are real cool and maybe almost what you want but for me I know she might not be "The One". I might still hang out with her and we might end up playing off of what we both want at the moment. Company or an artificial BF/GF untill "The One" showes up.

Some guys strictly look for FWB, Me? It just ends that way sometimes but both parties are happy and have no hurt feeling.

Im the nice guy...
 zangie
Joined: 5/30/2007
Msg: 440
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History
Why are most men looking for Friends with Benefits?
Posted: 8/28/2008 6:58:07 PM

I feel people are short changing themselves by building up negative associations, and judgments relating to terms, and then transferring them to people because they use the term.


In my personal experience since I started the online dating thing...every guy who presented what they called a "FWB" was really just NSA sex..period...and they suggest it right off the bat, they don't even know me...so how can we be friends? And the stress is on the benefit to them, not the friend part. So, while your outlook ( though still one I personally would have reservations about) has more of a positive spin...I believe you are by far in the minority...most men who use it online really mean sex without commitment or emotional attachment (probably because they think women would be more receptive than if they used FB or NSA sex).

I am not making any judgments myself...I am just going by what I have personally experienced in my two years of online dating...

If one's intent is to establish a friendship that includes sex, and see where it goes...why the need for this term? That can be called just...dating? If one doesn't have an eye out for the "one", why a need to label the current relationship? Doesn't seem logical.

I think it is just a polite way for a lot ( not ALL, for those who get their panties in a twist about literalness) of men to put a spin on it that is more palatable for those women who are looking for more....


or if you are seeking an individual person that you want to be around and love because they are so great.


Like I said...most men who want these arrangements ..the last thing they want is for you to fall in love with them....it would be foolish for those of us who are looking for love..to make that assumption...when we know better...
 tg55344
Joined: 9/22/2008
Msg: 441
Why are most men looking for Friends with Benefits?
Posted: 9/26/2008 3:44:26 PM
because i'm not getting enough action at home. at least i'm honest in what i'm looking for and not interested in playing games or playing with women's heads.
 wolfy35
Joined: 5/8/2008
Msg: 442
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History
Why are most men looking for Friends with Benefits?
Posted: 9/26/2008 4:01:28 PM
I take offence to the implication that I may be like the so called most men .

I for one would never into this type of relationship. I need say no more except that people should think about what they type rather than post such sweeping generalisations
 Vannili
Joined: 7/8/2008
Msg: 443
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History
Why are most men looking for Friends with Benefits?
Posted: 9/27/2008 12:05:34 AM
There are some women that are willing to be friends with benefits.
 caesar0002
Joined: 6/20/2008
Msg: 445
Why are most men looking for Friends with Benefits?
Posted: 9/27/2008 6:12:02 AM
women want that too a lot of times.
 rdcnorm
Joined: 3/7/2007
Msg: 455
Why are most men looking for Friends with Benefits?
Posted: 9/27/2008 10:20:59 AM
Personally,, I think to many negative people are focusing on the sex when the term FWB is used,, The concept is friendship, I have both male friends and female friends,, do I see all of them all the time,, no.. yet I can hang out with some guy friends because we have things in common, we even may go out for a couple of drinks,, or I may visit with there wife and children,, that same holds true with my female friends,, yet most of them are not married.. I said that because,, we all have friends,, but it doesn't mean we have to hang out with them all the time..

Now because I may have a woman as a friend,, and we do enjoy each others company as friends,, yet we know that a long term relationship would never work,, just because of our differences,, and yes friends do not have to agree on everything,, nor will couple,,but we are mature enough to know what deal breakers are for us.

Now the sex part of FWB... again we talk about what we are to each other,, we enjoy each other company,, and have a physical attraction,, we agree,, would sex be fun,, we are not seeing anyone,, we both have needs,, we like each other,, so why not..

Can some one get hurt,, sure,, but if honesty is in the forefront,, as it should be with any friendship,, both male and females friends,, the ability to work though those times is much easier, because of the mature responsible people that each of you are,,

It has been mentioned,, women are used for sex when it come to FWB,, I don't see that as the case,, if both parties agree,,

Well my lady friend just showed up,, were are cooking dinner tonight,, and watching a movie,, with no expectations of sex,,
 caesar0002
Joined: 6/20/2008
Msg: 457
Why are most men looking for Friends with Benefits?
Posted: 9/27/2008 10:36:14 AM
You women are bashing guys for wanting friends with benifits. I know some females that dont just want one guy so I am the booty call. So how's that grab ya?
 rdcnorm
Joined: 3/7/2007
Msg: 460
Why are most men looking for Friends with Benefits?
Posted: 9/27/2008 1:35:07 PM

Most women dont even climax during sex,so friends with benefits just doesnt make any sense for a woman to participate in,cause she probably isnt going to get any satisfaction anyway. So, it has to be for another reason.


Now from my point of view,, I haven't had sex with most women, and I'm pretty sure you haven't either,, however,, the women who were and still are my friends ,, the women who did happen share in the benefits of sex ,, they all have climaxed,, and enjoyed sex.. that also might be a reason for sex,, knowing that in life,, we/they,, can make decisions for ourselves without the judgemental attitude of others,, that is not saying people should have a right to their opinion as to why they may not want FWB.. but to say this...

I think only women who have a real lack of self esteem would even consider this option.

and you did say think,, I was wondering why you might think that when,, you really don't know most woman and the reason for them choosing FWB.. As a point in fact.. all the women that I have known, are quite responsible parents, highly educated,, really have no self-esteem issues,, matter of fact,, they are the woman who choose what they may do for just a few of the following reasons,, they realize they are not wanting a committed relationship as we might know it,, they as very secure in their own sexuality,, have the ability to express both through communication and with their sexual desires.. they would rather enjoy life the way they choose,, instead of being bottled up in a shell that some in society wishes that they would do,, so my opinion, these woman are strong confident woman,, not desperate or with a lack of self esteem..

Now on the other hand,, there are a few woman who might choose to have FWB for different reason,, and men as well.. but from my experience,, it's the intelligent woman who can see right through what a man's motive might be,, and the same would hold true for men.. In knowing that,, we as adults still make our decisions what our needs are, what our desires are,, and what is the outcome we wish to achieve,, again,, while maintaining a high standard of honesty both to ourselves and our partner... plus we know it is safe sex, instead of a one-night stand to fulfill our needs.

My friend wrote this below.................

I am a FWB and am a very confident woman ... knowing I don't want a committed relationship at this stage of my life. I don't see anything wrong with enjoying a friend with sexual benefits. If you enjoy someones company, whether it would be having dinner, good conversation or enjoying a night out ... why can't you enjoy other aspects of your relationship? That is not to say all my "men friends" have a FWB relationship with me. I care very much for my friend and will continue our "relationship". I also feel the term FWB is very demeaning because there is more to our relationship than sex.
 caesar0002
Joined: 6/20/2008
Msg: 462
Why are most men looking for Friends with Benefits?
Posted: 9/27/2008 3:14:27 PM
Ya women like to gang up on men. My ex told me that when her friend got in a arguement with her husband she always took her friends side even if she knew her friends husband was right. Some women in a relationship spend time with other females bashing their men. The poor guys are trying to just get by day to day and their wives keep knocking them back down. Some just want the drama of soaps in their real life so if it's not there they do create it. When I was married and we would argue. I would bring up something she just did like that day and she would have to go back 19 years instantly and bring up something from then. Mind you a paid many times for whatever it was but if she had no arguement she would grasp at something decades in the past and act like I did it all over again.


Then I get a hard time if I dont want to settle down again from some women.
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