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Show ALL Forums  > Current Events  > The New USA War....."Illegals"....      Home login  
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 whisper67520
Joined: 9/29/2006
Msg: 53
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The New USA War.....Illegals....Page 4 of 5    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5)
Sorry Cotter, I'm still having trouble figuring out which side of the fence your standing on. You bounce from one extreme position to the other. Do you want enforcement or should we just give away the whole dang country to anyone who says they want a piece of it?

My position is: Enforcement of our immigration laws. I don't care if its students who overstay, green card holders who over stay, black, brown, white or yellow who enter illegally, round them up and send them home. The laws the law and it's meant for EVERYONE......We can not teach our children to OBEY THE LAWS OF THE LAND and then say......but oh well, we can pick and chose which ones to obey and enforce. That's pretty hypocritical and no wonder our kids have no respect for our government and their elders.

And we are wondering about the moral decay that is happening all around us and why our kids have lost respect for their elders. hummmmm seems pretty clear to me......why
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 54
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The New USA War.....Illegals....
Posted: 10/26/2009 7:40:50 AM

We can not teach our children to OBEY THE LAWS OF THE LAND and then say......but oh well, we can pick and chose which ones to obey and enforce.
Then I suggest you teach your children to go in and rip a baby from the mother's breast and send it to an orphanage and ship the mother back home. I'll be teaching my children to look for fair solutions that will help all who are involved.

The mother of that child you have taken could be a teenager who came to our country with her family illegally or was even smuggled in as a sex slave ...not of her own will. The baby is a citizen, the mother is not. The baby has a right to stay, the mother does not.

So you go right ahead and teach your children that it's all cut and dried ... carved in stone ... the baby can stay ... the mother has to go. (Mind you, the mother may not even know any more where she has to go to if she was so young when brought here illegally that she can't remember where home is.) And I will teach my children (as I did) that solutions to such problems are dependent on the situations.

We all wish that obeying the laws of the land were so cut and dried as you would portray them, but it just doesn't work that way.
 whisper67520
Joined: 9/29/2006
Msg: 55
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The New USA War.....Illegals....
Posted: 10/26/2009 9:59:04 AM

Then I suggest you teach your children to go in and rip a baby from the mother's breast and send it to an orphanage and ship the mother back home. I'll be teaching my children to look for fair solutions that will help all who are involved


Most bleeding hearts wish to make it sound as if ALL the folks who have engaged in the activity of entering our country illegally are "isolated islands" with no means, but the worst scenarios.

Most who have entered our country illegally still have family members in their country of origin, whom they visit on a regular bases, using their stolen id's to pass back and forth across the borders and send millions of dollars back to relatives still living in their country of origin, as documented by the millions of dollars wired from the USA to bank accounts and people still living in other countries.

Not meaning to pick on our neighbors south of the USA border, but funds wired from the USA to Mexico are one of the highest import incomes of that country. I don't have the figures at hand, but you are welcome to research the facts.

I was not myself in attendance, but information from a trusted, reliable source, informed me that young girls here illegally, are coached to get pregnant at a very young age, even at 13 years of age, to get pregnant, deliver an anchor baby to help ensure it complicates the deportation process and most likely will guarantee deportation procedures will not be processed against them.

Would that not be comparable to us telling our underage children, go ahead and break the laws, commit crimes before you reach age 18 years, because it will give you immunity from adult prosecution and juvenile records are sealed. If they are committing serious crimes, is this justified to not hold them accountable?

If illegals are having children, in hopes of circumventing the laws, it is not our Governments fault or responsibility to look the other way and say........Oh well....lets just ignore our laws, things will get better.

We all are held, individually accountable for our actions and the fact of being an "illegal" does not give the perpetrator a "free pass" to try to circumvent our laws, in hopes of not suffering the consequences of their decissions.
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 56
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The New USA War.....Illegals....
Posted: 10/26/2009 10:21:10 AM

Most who have entered our country illegally still have family members in their country of origin, whom they visit on a regular bases, using their stolen id's to pass back and forth across the borders and send millions of dollars back to relatives still living in their country of origin, as documented by the millions of dollars wired from the USA to bank accounts and people still living in other countries.
Post a link that verifies that. Post a link that verifies that those illegals picking crops are sending millions back to relatives still living in their country of origin ... then I will become a crop picker ... because apparently there is millions to earn.

The more I read from your posts, the more it sounds like propaganda rhetoric. The lack of verifiable links is also suspicious of propaganda rhetoric.

I was not myself in attendance, but information from a trusted, reliable source, informed me that young girls here illegally, are coached to get pregnant at a very young age, even at 13 years of age, to get pregnant, deliver an anchor baby to help ensure it complicates the deportation process and most likely will guarantee deportation procedures will not be processed against them.
Then it is the coach you should be going after first.

I don't know of any law that is cut and dried ... black and white ... to the point that we just can't take individual situations into consideration.

I've said it before ... if you want the "illegal" problem to decrease ... crack down on the people who are hiring them. Once the word gets out that even if a person does illegally enter our borders they will not find work ... it will be less interesting to illegally enter our borders.
 Imported_labor
Joined: 3/7/2008
Msg: 57
The New USA War.....Illegals....
Posted: 10/26/2009 11:47:46 AM
I've said it before ... if you want the "illegal" problem to decrease ... crack down on the people who are hiring them. Once the word gets out that even if a person does illegally enter our borders they will not find work ... it will be less interesting to illegally enter our borders.


Totally agree. I said that before but got no answer, even though she has been saying that she is for "enforcing our immigration laws." Interestingly enough she always fails to mention that the enforcement effort should include the application of serious penalties to the employers of "illegal aliens." That is already stipulated in the laws, but seems to be the law that she isn't ready to have enforced, because the ones violating it aren't Mexicans, but mostly Americans who hire the "illegal aliens" to make a buck out of their cheap labor. Not enforcing the law against the employers of "illegals" is like rewarding their greed. I guess that in her view of the world that must be a good lesson to pass on to her children and grand-children.

Oh, no! How would that be possible! That couldn't be the self-righteous author of message # 82 that outed me as a hypocrite, liar and an enabler of the criminals:


f you did come from another country and are now an American Citizen, and you support criminal activity, then you are a liar and a hypocrite, because I believe you took an oath to uphold the Laws of the United States and it does not appear to me that your support and beliefs are aligned with the oath you took. Sorry, but that is the way I see it.


A straight shooter like her that can chastise me for not persecuting the powerless and disenfranchised, the most exploited people in our country, those doing the labor that most American don't want to do and that only receive slave-wages for their labor, and hate and disdain for being poor and having a different complexion; a person like her would not lie and would not be so hypocritical as to give a pass to some criminals while pointing her finger to others. I guess that she thinks that the Oath of Citizenship obligates me to persecute the poor and powerless and protect and support the rich and powerful. If the latter, out of greed, are breaking the law by hiring the former to exploit them and to increase their wealth, it is hypocritical in the extreme to fail to indicate that it should be first law that should be enforced.

Put those law-breakers, the employers of illegal aliens, out of business and you will see how fast the problem of "illegal aliens" in this country will start to resolve itself.
For those who come hoping to find work it would be very easy to understand that it doesn't pay to come to a place where there is no work: No work, No money! Let's go back home!
 whisper67520
Joined: 9/29/2006
Msg: 58
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The New USA War.....Illegals....
Posted: 10/26/2009 1:13:02 PM
Where have you ever seen me say.........Don't prosecute the EMPLOYERS. I do believe it is against the law to employee persons who do not have a right to be working in the USA. I totally support E-Verify and feel all employers who turn a blind eye to hiring those not eligible to be working, need to be held accountable and prosecuted.

I do believe, those of us, who support enforcement of our immigrations laws, do support the enforcement of EMPLOYERS, breaking laws also, 100%. No one should be given a "Pass Go, get out of Jail" card, with regard to our immigration laws. The fines and jail time should be so serious, that it differently deters "Law Breakers" and makes it unworth while.
 Imported_labor
Joined: 3/7/2008
Msg: 59
The New USA War.....Illegals....
Posted: 10/26/2009 3:47:02 PM

Where have you ever seen me say.........Don't prosecute the EMPLOYERS.


No, you didn't say it, but your participation in the discussion here, writing only against the "illegal alliens," mostly Mexicans, coupled with your attacks against me waving my "MEXICAN FLAG" while being "a liar and a hypocrite," because I was trying to show you the other side of the coin in the issue of illegal immigration, the side that you never mentioned at all, very much indicated to me that you were ignoring it, busy as you were expressing your rage against the "illegal aliens" from south of the border.

And let's not forget that you brought into the discussion a dubious story intending to inflame the passions against the Mexican "illegal aliens." I showed you that the author is a person who writes about immigration from the perspective of the right wing corporate interests. Instead of proving the facts of the story you preferrd to insult me personally. You even referred to my old age as a factor, when you should have well known that I am younger than you.

Well, I am glad now that you have spoken about the criminal employers that exploit the "illegal alien" workers to fatten their bank accounts, leaving the whole country to pay for the consequences of their greed. Of course you didn't say as much, but whatever you said is a start. It is never too late to start seeing the light!
 whisper67520
Joined: 9/29/2006
Msg: 60
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The New USA War.....Illegals....
Posted: 10/26/2009 10:42:49 PM
My post #67, several days ago....
Until "OUR GOVERNMENT' enacts E-Verify for all employers and enforces it....and discontinues birth right....the problem will have no end.....


I don't pick and chose what laws to enforce, but say "Enforce ALL OUR IMMIGRATION LAWS" against ALL THE LAW BREAKERS.

I've always told my children......"You know what the laws are, You know whats right and whats wrong and if you chose to break the law thinking your not going to get caught or do something you know is wrong and get caught.............you give up the right to complain about the concquences you have to pay for your decissions. It was your choice. No one did anything TO YOU, you did it to yourself"

I feel the same way concerning the "pity me" "bleeding hearts" "cry me a river" illegals and the position they find themselves in, the position they put their children in and the employers who encourage illegals to come here unlawfully, employee them unlawfully and take advantage of their labor.

But keep in mind.....People are inclined to treat you the way you allow them to treat you and the illegals do have the choice to wait in line and come to the USA LEGALLY.
 Imported_labor
Joined: 3/7/2008
Msg: 61
The New USA War.....Illegals....
Posted: 10/27/2009 4:27:50 AM

Until "OUR GOVERNMENT' enacts E-Verify for all employers and enforces it....and discontinues birth right....the problem will have no end.....


While should employers wait until the government enacts another program (which may take many years to be operational) to start complying with the existing laws?

It is not rocket science to spot a fake social security card. If in doubt, call the Social Security local office to have verification of name and matching SS #. I did that when I worked in a place where I had to process that information before new employees would be placed in the payroll. That would take care of eliminating a very high percentage of the illegal hiring of "illegal aliens."

There is no excuse for the employers to continue reaping profits from their illegal activities. They should be complying with the laws right now, and anyone saying that they need another government system to verify documents is just passing the buck, and not assuming their personal responsibility for the crimes that they are committing. To them you should be saying:

......"You know what the laws are, You know whats right and whats wrong and if you chose to break the law thinking your not going to get caught or do something you know is wrong and get caught.............you give up the right to complain about the concquences you have to pay for your decissions. It was your choice. No one did anything TO YOU, you did it to yourself"


Can you explain how would it work when the government "discontinues birth right." That would require ammending the constitution, correct? How would that work?
 whisper67520
Joined: 9/29/2006
Msg: 62
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The New USA War.....Illegals....
Posted: 10/27/2009 11:49:49 AM

Can you explain how would it work when the government "discontinues birth right." That would require amending the constitution, correct? How would that work


Your the scholar with the graduate degree.......how bout you explaining it to me.....The why's it might be difficult, the laws that would need to be changed and how it could be brought about. Lord knows we need it changed.

BTW, I corrected your misspelled "ammending". wink
 Imported_labor
Joined: 3/7/2008
Msg: 63
The New USA War.....Illegals....
Posted: 10/27/2009 1:02:12 PM

YOU ARE the scholar with the graduate degree.........how bout you explaining it to me.....


Yeah, but constitutional law is not my field of expertise. I know my limitations. Do you know yours?


how bout you explaining it to me.....The why's it might be difficult, the laws that would need to be changed and how it could be brought about. Lord knows we need it changed.


So, you don't know what you are talking about, but you and God know that some babies born in the USA aren't the same as others, and therefore shouldn't have the rights given to them by the Constitution of the United States. I know that you hate them very much, but did you have to also bring God down to the gutter level discussion that you seem to enjoy?


BTW, I corrected your misspelled "ammending". wink


I know that when I am typing I make mistakes, and English being a foreign language for me it is not abnormal that I make spelling mistakes, especially when it comes to using double consonants. I almost never sure if a word has a single or a double consonant. Sorry for butchering that word.

Let me reciprocate the favor making use of my expertise, although my training was in Spanish, not English. Anyways, if you notice in the first sentence of yours that I quoted above, there are two words that are capitalized. You used an incorrect word in that sentence. The possessive adjective YOUR can't replace the subject YOU and the verbal form ARE. You can contract those two words, but the one that you used is not the correct form. But I guess that you knew that, and you only made a typing error, right?
 BikerBiker53
Joined: 6/11/2005
Msg: 64
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The New USA War.....Illegals....
Posted: 10/27/2009 1:14:27 PM
You don't even bother to read the links provided, do you ?

All you can do is "ATTACK - ATTACK - ATTACK"

Why dont you try reading the link given, to get the whole story, so you can see how wrong you are....before you go straight into your "ATTACK MODE".


Obama: Immigration enforcement equals terror
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=69612

Sen. Barack Obama, speaking to the annual conference of the National Council of La Raza yesterday, pumped up the crowd by describing how Hispanic communities are "terrorized" by government immigration officers

"When communities are terrorized by ICE immigration raids," Obama said, "when nursing mothers are torn from their babies, when children come home from school to find their parents missing, when people are detained without access to legal counsel, when all that is happening, the system just isn’t working, and we need to change it."


This is Obamas way of "Bad Talking" our Country, and the men and women who enforce our Countries Laws....(and this is only one instance)

If,.....You would of read the "Link",..you would of found out that NO nursing BABY, was torn from its Mothers breast,...you'd know that if you read the link.

Obama,....was addressing the National Council of La Raza, sucking up to them to get their support, and over exaggerated, and bad mouthed our Law Enforcement,...who's job is to arrest CRIMINALS, who break our Laws.


Sen. Barack Obama, speaking to the annual conference of the National Council of La Raza yesterday, pumped up the crowd by describing how Hispanic communities are "terrorized" by government immigration officers.


It doesn't matter, if its a Male,..or Female when it comes to our Nations Law...You break the Law you suffer the consequences.

What about the "illegals" that "Terrorize" our streets and neighborhoods by Gang Intimidation, selling Drugs and committing acts of Rape, Robbery, and Murder, against law abiding Citizens


"Our duty is to ensure laws are enforced," San Diego ICE spokesperson Lauren Mack told WND. "The people who violate those laws should understand they are subject to arrest and removal."

Mack explained that the ICE's enforcement operations are not random acts of shock meant to intimidate or terrorize, but carefully planned and targeted arrests, backed by months of investigation and surveillance, similar to the steps police take to apprehend any form of criminal.

"Our agents are experienced and well-trained," she said. "They know ICE policies on dealing with families and always take humanitarian issues into account in any arrest situation."

In November of last year, following an incident where a mother and nursing baby actually were separated by ICE action, the agency released new written guidelines for handling single parents, pregnant women, nursing mothers and other special child or family care situations. The New York Times reported the new guidelines allow nursing mothers to be released unless they pose a national security risk.

"We are faced with these sorts of situations frequently, where a large number of individuals come illegally or overstay and have children in the United States," an ICE spokesperson told the Times. "Unfortunately, the parents are putting their children in these difficult situations."


Its a shame that sometimes children, even Babies,...are caught in the middle of situations like this.

This "illegal" problem should of been addressed years ago,..instead of continued Amnesty programs, that have just kept making things worse, instead of better.
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 65
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The New USA War.....Illegals....
Posted: 10/28/2009 5:51:18 AM
All this griping and complaining about all the "illegals" ... other than E-Verify, how else would anyone go about finding and capturing these "illegals" and then containing them to ship them back to their native country?

What do you propose?

Should we start putting bounties out on these folks ... start paying people to hunt them down and capture them for us?

I think it would be effective to start naming and shaming employers who repeatedly employ "illegal" aliens ... along with heavy fines and locking them up. Just fining them would not be effective since they are probably so well off. The money could go towards offsetting US expenses incurred in (for example) health care provided for them?
 Imported_labor
Joined: 3/7/2008
Msg: 66
The New USA War.....Illegals....
Posted: 10/28/2009 6:01:28 AM
You don't even bother to read the links provided, do you ?


That is good one!

No!! It is not!! Is a ridiculous lie, like most of the stuff that you post in these threads.

Case in point. You posted a repetition of an article, including the name of the reporter, which was missing the first time that it was posted by another poster. I READ the link, and I researched, and I proved to you my suspicions about the veracity of the information in your article. The author of the article is someone who writes about immigration issues voicing the lines of the corporate right wing interests, not very concerned with giving a balanced perspective of the complex issues of the "illegal" immigration problem.


All you can do is "ATTACK - ATTACK - ATTACK"

Why dont you try reading the link given, to get the whole story, so you can see how wrong you are....before you go straight into your "ATTACK MODE".


Not really, I proved in the paragraph above yours that I read the links. It is not true that I always "ATTACK - ATTACK - ATTACK." Sometimes I tell stories that help ellucidate some points, and many times I write my reflections on certain issues. This is true though, I will attack as hard as I can when people write lies, disinformation and false stories posted only to give legitimacy to expressions of racial hate and out-of-control, irrational xebophobia. As an American citizen, I feel that is my duty to try to uphold the values that our country proclaims to believe in, especially when it comes to treat all human beings in a fair manner.


Obama,....was addressing the National Council of La Raza, sucking up to them to get their support, and over exaggerated, and bad mouthed our Law Enforcement,...who's job is to arrest CRIMINALS, who break our Laws.


I know already that you really like to bash president Obama, with or without reason. I am sure that the poster who wrote about the nursing baby will respond to you about that issue. I will take you up on the issue that president Obama "bad mouthed our Law Enforcement,...who's job is to arrest CRIMINALS, who break our Laws."

Since you read the links and I assume that you understand them, why don't you take a minute to read this story, and the explain to us, how is this man a CRIMINAL, and if he is not one, the who are the CRIMINALS in that story.


AP IMPACT: Citizens Held as Illegal Immigrants
AP IMPACT: In crackdown on illegal immigrants, American citizens get caught in dragnet
By SUZANNE GAMBOA Associated Press Writer
April 12, 2009 (AP) The Associated Press

Pedro Guzman has been an American citizen all his life. Yet in 2007, the 31-year-old Los Angeles native — in jail for a misdemeanor, mentally ill and never able to read or write — signed a waiver agreeing to leave the country without a hearing and was deported to Mexico as an illegal immigrant.

For almost three months, Guzman slept in the streets, bathed in filthy rivers and ate out of trash cans while his mother scoured the city of Tijuana, its hospitals and morgues, clutching his photo in her hand. He was finally found trying to cross the border at Calexico, 100 miles away.

These days, back home in California, "He just changes from one second to another. His brain jumps back to when he was missing," said his brother, Michael Guzman. "We just talk to him and reassure him that everything is fine and nobody is going to hurt him."

In a drive to crack down on illegal immigrants, the United States has locked up or thrown out dozens, probably many more, of its own citizens over the past eight years. A monthslong AP investigation has documented 55 such cases, on the basis of interviews, lawsuits and documents obtained under the Freedom of Information Act. These citizens are detained for anything from a day to five years. Immigration lawyers say there are actually hundreds of such cases.

It is illegal to deport U.S. citizens or detain them for immigration violations. Yet citizens still end up in detention because the system is overwhelmed, acknowledged Victor Cerda, who left Immigration and Customs Enforcement in 2005 after overseeing the system. The number of detentions overall is expected to rise by about 17 percent this year to more than 400,000, putting a severe strain on the enforcement network and legal system.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=7318392#


Give it a try! I really would like to know how you reach your conclusions.

And if I had time I would have "attacked" this pearl from your post:


What about the "illegals" that "Terrorize" our streets and neighborhoods by Gang Intimidation, selling Drugs and committing acts of Rape, Robbery, and Murder, against law abiding Citizens


Unfortunately I have to do other things today, otherwise I would have tried to straighten you up on that topic, however futile my attempts would be. I guess nothing will work with someone that come here to post with ulterior motives. I may come back to the "criminals" issue that you are attaching to "illegals," if you continue presenting an imbalanced view, or if you would like me to enlighten you and give you more information about who the "criminals" are.
 BikerBiker53
Joined: 6/11/2005
Msg: 67
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The New USA War.....Illegals....
Posted: 10/28/2009 8:23:29 AM
OK,...I wanted to read from your point of view,...but all you links did, was take me to a Web Page, of Search Links,...not a direct link.

But I've read it before, so no big deal,..

But if you want me to read a story, please provide the direct link, that take me to the direct link you've "Copy & Pasted" in your post,...



AP IMPACT: Citizens Held as Illegal Immigrants
AP IMPACT: In crackdown on illegal immigrants, American citizens get caught in dragnet
By SUZANNE GAMBOA Associated Press Writer
April 12, 2009 (AP) The Associated Press


I tried,....
"AP IMPACT: Citizens Held as Illegal Immigrants"
just a web base search engine with numerous links

I tried,....
AP IMPACT: In crackdown on illegal immigrants, American citizens get caught in dragnet
just a web base search engine with numerous links


I don't give you web page search engine links, why do that to me,..you want me to read something, give me the direct link.

I agree with you,..its a shame about "Pedro Guzman",..and his tragic story,...I agree with you, that's horrible,..and NO, there is now way Id even try to accuse you of being biased, or refuting your credibility,..I know your heart is in the right place, I sympathize with these people too,..at least the Hispanics that come here illegally looking for a better life....not the Gang Bangers and Criminals.

I've said before,..we have to do something to change our system,.....but allowing 12 to 30+ million Illegals to burden our country isn't it.

And to reward the illegals, that's already here, to be allowed to "Go To The Front of The Line",...if granted Amnesty, is a slap in the face, to those who have done the right thing by filling out the required paperwork, and are waiting in line.

The way to remove "Illegals" wouldn't be very hard at all,....
Enforce the existing Laws that's already in place,
instead of having Sanctuary Cities, where the Police cant even ask you if your an American Citizen...is that NUTS, or what ?

Employers, are finally being prosecuted for hiring "illegals"....

If no one would Hire the "illegals",.....they would return home on their own.

If no Landlord would rent to "illegals",..they would return home on their own.

YES,..I know there's flaws in everything,...anyone "legal" can rent a place then turn it over to an illegal,....

Illegals can and do, get Bogus ID's, and Social Security Cards, which is illegal in its self,..
so when caught, you not only have an "illegal" that broke our Countries Laws,...you also have someone with Phony ID, and or Phony Social Security Cards,.....more charges against him in a Court of Law,...

Its time to enforce those Laws instead of "Granting Amnesty"....

More and more "illegals" come here all the time, because they know were not aggressively pursuing them, and face no real punishment if caught,...that's the problem.

When, the USA, starts enforcing its Laws,..we wouldn't have any where near the problem we face today,...simply by enforcing our existing laws.

Are we going to wait till some "illegal" slips over the Border with a Nuclear Weapon and blows a city like San Francisco off the map, killing millions before we decide to take action, and clamp down on the Border, and "illegals" ?

I guaranty you,..if that happens,..our country will be rounding up every "illegal" they can get their hands on, by the Bus Load...that will cause so much trouble,..there will be hundreds of,.. "Pedro Guzman's",..being caught in the middle.

Do we wait, for something like that to happen, and cause mass pandemonium, or should we do it in a humane, sympathetic way, that causes less problems ?

IF,....we ever get serious,....as Punishment,..we could use these "illegals" to build the Fence at the Border,..saving Millions in Labor, then where their time is up,..ship them to the other side with a Warning,..

"You come back again, and we catch you again,...your looking at 5 to 10 years Hard Labor !"

Getting the "illegals" to go back home wouldn't even be hard if every News paper from Coast to Coast had the same Headlines,...
ILLEGALS TOLD TO LEAVE, OR BE DEPORTED-ANY ILLEGALS CAUGHT AFTER THIS 90 DAY GRACE PERIOD WILL GO TO PRISON FOR 5-10 YEARS-THEN DEPORTED

And get rid of this "Anchor Baby" situation,...simply by changing the Law,.....if the Mother, or Father, is an "illegal",...then the baby is "illegal".....you can even write into the Law, that if the Baby/Child, was born in the United States, they can apply for Citizenship when they turn of Legal Age.

Simple
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 68
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The New USA War.....Illegals....
Posted: 10/28/2009 9:39:14 AM

IF,....we ever get serious,....as Punishment,..we could use these "illegals" to build the Fence at the Border,..saving Millions in Labor, then where their time is up,..ship them to the other side with a Warning,..

"You come back again, and we catch you again,...your looking at 5 to 10 years Hard Labor !"

Getting the "illegals" to go back home wouldn't even be hard if every News paper from Coast to Coast had the same Headlines,...
ILLEGALS TOLD TO LEAVE, OR BE DEPORTED-ANY ILLEGALS CAUGHT AFTER THIS 90 DAY GRACE PERIOD WILL GO TO PRISON FOR 5-10 YEARS-THEN DEPORTED
For a person who is so concerned about what the supposed "illegals" are costing the US just being here on the streets, that would be a drop in the bucket compared to what it would cost the US to lock up all of the supposed "illegals" ... and then for 5 - 10 years?

It's also against the law to work inmates at "Hard Labor", so now you're talking about needing to change still another law in addition to the law that gives a person born in the US citizenship status.

I guess you've got a lot of work cut out for yourself there ... eh?
 Imported_labor
Joined: 3/7/2008
Msg: 69
The New USA War.....Illegals....
Posted: 10/28/2009 10:18:55 AM
OK,...I wanted to read from your point of view,...but all you links did, was take me to a Web Page, of Search Links,...not a direct link.


The link is at the bottom of the quoted article. I tested it by putting it in the address line and clicked GO. It went directly to the article.

I understand that you want to have the "illegal aliens" removed from the country. I am not against controlling the "illegal immigration" problem that we have, but I don't have any illusions that just by deporting millions of Mexicans we will solve the problem once in for all times. Unless the underlying problems are resolved we will continue having the same problems, as people will continue taking their chances by crossing the border without authorization if they know that employers are hiring people without legal documents.

I am against the policies that encourage people to trample over other people's rights. I am especially opposed to giving carte blanche to criminals to violate the rights of American citizens and legal residents in the name of enforcement of the laws. Once you start giving the law enforcement agents reasons to act like criminals, by giving them quotas of arrest that they need to meet, or by offering them bonuses based on the number of arrests, there will be nothing to stop them from behaving like criminals. They will surely violate the rights of anyone who looks or sounds like an illegal alien. They may even help themselves to objects of value belonging to the people that they arrest, because their main motivation will be to profit from their enterprise of arresting "illegals," just as much as the employers of illegal aliens who knowingly hire them to exploit their labor, and then when payday comes, the employer calls the MIGRA to raid the place so the "illegals" have to run away without getting paid for their labor.

Check this story. (link provided below the quoted article.)


Report Says Immigration Agents Broke Laws and Agency Rules in Home Raids
By NINA BERNSTEIN
Published: July 22, 2009 The New York Times

Armed federal immigration agents have illegally pushed and shoved their way into homes in New York and New Jersey in hundreds of predawn raids that violated their own agency rules as well as the Constitution, according to a study to be released on Wednesday by the Benjamin N. Cardozo School of Law.

The study by the school’s Immigration Justice Law Clinic, backed by several law enforcement experts including Nassau County’s police commissioner, found a widespread pattern of misconduct by agents from Immigration and Customs Enforcement after analyzing 700 arrest reports obtained from the agency through Freedom of Information lawsuits.

The raids were supposed to focus on dangerous criminals, but overwhelmingly netted Latinos with civil immigration violations who happened to be present, the study said. Raiders mistakenly held legal residents and citizens by force in their own homes while agents rummaged through drawers seeking incriminating documents, the report said.

Acting without judicial search warrants, the agents were required to obtain informed consent from a resident before they entered a private residence. But the study found that in 86 percent of the Nassau and Suffolk County arrest reports that it analyzed, and a quarter of the New Jersey cases, no consent was recorded.

“If any local law enforcement agency in the nation were involved in these types of widespread constitutional violations it would prompt a federal investigation,” said Lawrence W. Mulvey, the Nassau police commissioner, who led a panel that guided the Cardozo report. “Federal immigration agents simply need to play by the same rules as every other law enforcement officer.”

Immigration and Customs Enforcement responded with a brief e-mail statement defending the conduct of its agents and the home raids — the same kind of response it has made to similar criticism since the Bush administration vastly expanded their use in 2006."

In 2007, Mr. Mulvey sharply criticized raids that brought scores of agents from around the country to Long Island, some brandishing shotguns, and rousted many citizens and legal residents from their beds in what Nassau officials called a poorly planned antigang operation.

The report said a similar “cowboy mentality” emerged in many other raids. In Paterson, N.J., last year, legal residents from Guatemala and their 9-year-old son, a United States citizen, were threatened with guns by immigration agents who had entered their home while the boy’s mother was in the shower.

In a Staten Island case, an immigration judge recently ruled that the conduct of agents acting without a warrant was an “egregious violation” of fundamental fairness; they had entered a man’s bedroom armed with pistols, “forced him into the hall and required him to stand in his underwear before his brother, sister-in-law and their children.”

In an e-mail message obtained under a Freedom of Information request, a federal immigration agent in Connecticut invited a state trooper to join a scheduled set of raids in New Haven, writing: “We have 18 addresses — so it should be a fun time! Let me know if you guys can play!”

The report also found a strong suggestion of racial profiling in the difference between the ethnicity of the named targets — 66 percent Latino — and of the “collateral” arrests — 87 percent Latino in New Jersey and 94 percent on Long Island.

Such concerns have surfaced repeatedly around the country in news articles and lawsuits since 2006, when the Bush administration raised the arrest quota of each raiding team eightfold, to 1,000 a year.

Six months into the Obama administration, with the same spokesmen in place from the Bush years, Immigration and Customs Enforcement responded to the Cardozo report with a general defense of its agents.

"The men and women of I.C.E. are sworn to uphold the laws of our nation,” the agency said in an e-mailed statement. “We do so professionally, humanely and with an acute awareness with the impact enforcement has on the individuals we encounter. While I.C.E. prioritizes our efforts by targeting fugitives who have demonstrated a threat to national security or public safety, we have a clear mandate to pursue all immigration fugitives."

The Cardozo report said that Janet Napolitano, secretary of the Department of Homeland Security, had changed some policies that contributed to the abuses it found, like eliminating the arrest quota. But the report recommended more drastic steps.

Home raids should be “a tactic of last resort, reserved for high-priority targets,” and then only after agents have obtained judicial warrants, the report urged. A high-level supervisor should be on site, and home raids should be videotaped, it recommended.

Agents should have to note why they initially seized and questioned any person, the study said. “That’s the bread and butter of any arrest report,” said Peter L. Markowitz, who teaches at Cardozo and is one of the report’s authors. Such a note was missing from two-thirds of the arrest reports analyzed in the study.


http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/22/nyregion/22raids.html

So my question is Who are behaving like criminals?

My main concern is avoiding these situations by not giving anyone the incentive to behave like criminals when enforcing the laws. That is the reason why I prefer to enforce the law against the employers, because there is no need to make "mistakes" where the victims are always people who look and sound like the "illegal aliens."

Enforcing the laws against the employers of "illegal aliens" doesn't require acting violently, or trampling over people's civil and human rights. All it takes is to accumulate enough evidence to haul them into court, prove them guilty, fine them out of business, and give them a good vacation in the slammer.

Do a few of those and you will see how fast the other employers get the message, and the "illegals" start heading home when they can't get a job.

It may not be perfect, but that is my position.
 whisper67520
Joined: 9/29/2006
Msg: 70
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The New USA War.....Illegals....
Posted: 10/28/2009 12:59:01 PM

Enforcing the laws against the employers of "illegal aliens" doesn't require acting violently, or trampling over people's civil and human rights. All it takes is to accumulate enough evidence to haul them into court, prove them guilty, fine them out of business, and give them a good vacation in the slammer.

Do a few of those and you will see how fast the other employers get the message, and the "illegals" start heading home when they can't get a job.



I must say.........I agree with you.....100%
 Imported_labor
Joined: 3/7/2008
Msg: 71
The New USA War.....Illegals....
Posted: 10/28/2009 1:53:27 PM

I must say.........I agree with you.....100%


Who would have thought of it?

Are you sure that you want to do that?

You're not kidding with me, are you?

I'm still shocked! This is the first time that I get someone from the other side to agree with me, 100% no less!

I think that I will go downstairs and treat myself to some tea and cookies to celebrate this event.
 whisper67520
Joined: 9/29/2006
Msg: 72
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The New USA War.....Illegals....
Posted: 11/13/2009 8:56:54 AM

1,200 Illegal Workers Fired in Minnesota
Tuesday, November 10, 2009, 11:20 AM EST - posted on NumbersUSA


Minneapolis, Minn.
In the largest immigration enforcement action under the Obama Administration, 1,200 illegal aliens working as janitors in Minnesota were fired last month. The illegal aliens worked for a San Francisco-based company, ABM, that is contracted to clean many of the office buildings in Minneapolis and St. Paul.

Shifting from the Bush policy of conducting worksite enforcement actions, the Obama Administration pressured the company to fire the illegal workers. The company has not said how big their Minnesota workforce was, but legal workers who continue working said about 80 percent of the workforce was fired.

Unlike the Bush-era enforcement actions, no action was taken against the fired workers. ABM will likely be prosecuted. Former ICE agent, Mark Cangemi, is unsure if the new strategy will prove to be effective.

"Why give people an opportunity to leave the employment without taking any action against them as individuals?" Cangemi told Minnesota Public Radio. "Put them into proceedings. Let them argue their case. If they have a case that allows them to remain in the United States under the law, so be it. If they don't, then the law stands to be enforced."

In an interview with MPR, an anonymous janitor said, "I really want people to hear -- and if possible even get to the ears of President Barack Obama -- that we don't come here for anything other than to work."

The unemployment rate in Minnesota in September was 7.3%. Of the 1,200 job openings created by the firings, apparently all the jobs have been filled.


Pressure of this sort, will help to turn the tide of the "illegal problem." If your company hires or does business with companies that hire "illegals" speak up and open jobs for unemployed Americans. There are unemployed Americans, waiting to fill these job openings.
 Imported_labor
Joined: 3/7/2008
Msg: 73
The New USA War.....Illegals....
Posted: 1/8/2010 9:55:32 AM
Pressure of this sort, will help to turn the tide of the "illegal problem." If your company hires or does business with companies that hire "illegals" speak up and open jobs for unemployed Americans. There are unemployed Americans, waiting to fill these job openings.


That's right! Who would have thought that all these pillars of our society would be braking the laws on immigration, undermining the economic stability of our country and impoverishing the lives of working Americans just to line their own pockets?

Who is the enemy is this war? Maybe they don't all look like the vegetable pickers, you know, short pants, huaraches on their feet, and wide brim Mexican sombrero on their heads. Maybe they just look like the well attired gentleman that you meet every week at your church's services. Who would have thought of it?

Kind of dis-heartening, isn't it?

Now comes the news that the NFL, or at least a part of it, has also joined those who would save a buck by hiring contractors that mosts likely give them the low bids because not all their workers may be documented workers! I know there will be people making excuses for them. As for me, I'm done buying anything that has remotely any link with the NFL. And this will apply to the companies that advertise during their games. I will consciously make an effort to buy brands other than those linked to the NFL.

Check this link:

http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2010/01/08/detained_immigrants_were_set_to_clear_gillette_snow/

"Dozens of immigrants pulled over Wednesday in Foxborough during a federal search for fugitives from deportation were on their way to Gillette Stadium to shovel snow before this weekend’s New England Patriots playoff game, Guatemala’s consul in Rhode Island said yesterday.

The federal operation, possibly the largest involving Guatemalan nationals since the 2007 raid on a leather-goods factory in New Bedford, raises questions about the legal status of temporary workers at one of the state’s premier sports complexes, and about the responsibility of companies that hire subcontractors to verify the legal status of their employees."

The rest of the article found at link posted above.
 BikerBiker53
Joined: 6/11/2005
Msg: 74
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The New USA War.....Illegals....
Posted: 1/8/2010 4:06:41 PM
I just wanted to respond to the article that states that,...



“If any local law enforcement agency in the nation were involved in these types of widespread constitutional violations it would prompt a federal investigation,” said Lawrence W. Mulvey, the Nassau police commissioner, who led a panel that guided the Cardozo report. “Federal immigration agents simply need to play by the same rules as every other law enforcement officer.”


Law Enforcement Agencys across the nation, has went above and beyond peoples Constituional Rights, and Legal Rights, probably Hundreds of Thousands of times,..its just that you dont hear about it often,.....

Our Civil and Constitutional rights have become meaningless, unless you happen to have a Lawyer present,..or capture it on Video,..then you still have to prove you case in court....either way its gonna cost you.

But for all the "Abuse Of Power" that some of the Law Enforcement have used,..it still is the best defence we have against Criminals.

Its just too bad we have so many Bleeding Heart Liberals that insist that Criminals have more Rights, then their Victims.

Now as far as "Illegals" go,..they should have NO RIGHTS,..and not be subject to the
provisions that American Citizens are protected by,...but still should be treeted Civil, as Im sure most are.

If Illegals do not want to be rousted out of bed at pre dawn hours, then they should NOT be here as an Illegal.

What part of "ILLEGAL" do people NOT Understand ?

These people are Law Breakers, and a lot of times they are repeat Law Breakers.

The first Offence is NOT a Felony,...but after being Deported once, and returning, it becomes a FELONY,..yet most get a slap on the wrist, and Deported,...Again.

Most Illegals are Repeat Offenders,..Drug Runners,...Criminals,...and Sex Offenders.

Do YOU still what to whine about ILLEGALS RIGHTS ???

Try going to some other Countries as an Illegal, and see how YOU get treeted.
 scorpiomover
Joined: 4/19/2007
Msg: 75
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The New USA War.....Illegals....
Posted: 1/11/2010 8:51:34 AM
RE Msg: 107 by Montreal_Guy:
Count me in with those that support the idea of making sure ANY company that knowingly hires an illegal alien to do work will face brutal fines - and that those responsible for deciding to hire them face the real possibility of jail time for doing so.
In the UK, it used to be illegal to employ illegals, and companies would face heavy fines for doing so. Then the law was repealed, and suddenly immigration swelled.

The trouble with that is that illegals can be abused to make more profit, and they often wind up paying money into government plans that they will never collect on as an illegal. Those that do so benefit handsomely, while both illegals and Americans suffer.
The same goes for the UK. Money talks. Of course, in the longer term, the problems due to illegals working illegally is likely to make things worse. But few seem to be interested in long-term capitalism, only in short-term capitalism.
 Imported_labor
Joined: 3/7/2008
Msg: 76
The New USA War.....Illegals....
Posted: 1/12/2010 1:48:02 PM

The same goes for the UK. Money talks. Of course, in the longer term, the problems due to illegals working illegally is likely to make things worse. But few seem to be interested in long-term capitalism, only in short-term capitalism.


The NY Times reported yesterday that Italy is experiencing its own war dealing with immigrants, legal and illegal.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/11/world/europe/11italy.html?scp=1&sq=immigrants%20+%20Italy&st=cse


Race Riots Grip Italian Town, and Mafia Is Suspected
By RACHEL DONADIO
Published: January 10, 2010
ROME — More than a thousand African workers were put aboard buses and trains in the southern Italian region of Calabria over the weekend and shipped out to immigrant detention centers, following some of the country’s worst riots in years.

The clashes began Thursday night in Rosarno, a working-class city amid citrus groves in Calabria, the toe of Italy’s boot, after a legal immigrant from Togo was lightly wounded in a pellet-gun attack in a nearby city. It is not clear who pulled the trigger — the authorities said they were investigating whether organized crime had provoked the riots — but the consequences were severe.

Blaming racism for the attack, dozens of immigrants burned cars and smashed shop windows in Rosarno in two days of riots, throwing rocks at local residents and fighting with the police. More than 50 immigrants and police officers were wounded, none seriously, and 10 immigrants and locals were arrested before the authorities began sending the immigrants to detention centers elsewhere in southern Italy on Saturday.

The images emerging from Calabria over the weekend — of torched cars and angry African immigrants hurling rocks — were the most vivid example of the growing racial tensions in Italy, which have been exacerbated by an economic crisis whose depth has only recently been acknowledged in the national dialogue. Both the official and underground economies increasingly rely on immigrants, while Italy remains torn between acceptance and xenophobia.


[Complete article and pictures found at link posted above]

Interestingly enough, the police, in response to information that the Mafia was involved, has acted swiftly enough by arresting those suspected in the provocation of violence.


Italy Arrests 12 Mafia Suspects In Race Riot Town
By REUTERS
Published: January 12, 2010

Police arrested 12 mafia suspects Tuesday in the southern town plagued by racial violence last week, in a swoop the interior minister said was the best response to organised crime's exploitation of immigrants.

Police said they had dismantled the local clan in the town of Rosarno of the 'Ndrangheta, Italy's most powerful mafia group, which operates out of the southern Calabria region.

They issued 17 warrants for mafia activity, including five for people already in prison on other charges.

Interior Minister Roberto Maroni used the arrests to head off criticism of his handling of the violence, in which more than 50 people were injured in clashes between locals and African immigrants.

"This is the best answer we could give," Maroni told parliament. "It is the proof that the state is present in Calabria and will not let up in hunting down the 'Ndrangheta."

The government evacuated most immigrants from Rosarno over the weekend, sending those without residence papers to centres from which they risk expulsion to their countries of origin, and helping others to leave the town to avoid attacks by residents.

The opposition attacked Maroni for saying the Rosarno violence was due to excessive "tolerance" of illegal immigration, and some media commentators, including the Vatican newspaper, said racism was on the rise in Italy.

Some 8,000 illegal immigrants work in Calabria, most as day labourers picking fruit and vegetables, and critics say authorities turn a blind eye until it stops being politically convenient to do so.

Many live in abandoned factories with no running water or electricity and human rights groups say they are exploited by the 'Ndrangheta.

Protesters in central Rome carried oranges covered in fake blood to symbolise the violence towards immigrants and their exploitation in Italy's citrus fruit harvests.

Egypt's foreign ministry said the Rosarno incident showed "religious and racial discrimination and hatred of foreigners," and called on the international community to respond.

Italian Foreign Minister Franco Frattini said the violence was "unacceptable" but had no religious motives.


http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2010/01/12/world/international-uk-italy-mafia-racism.html?_r=1&scp=7&sq=immigrants%20+%20Italy&st=cse
 BikerBiker53
Joined: 6/11/2005
Msg: 77
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The New USA War.....Illegals....
Posted: 2/14/2010 10:08:04 AM
Im glad to see that a lot of people understand and agree that our nations laws should be upheld, and that Employers who Hire Illegals should face harsh punishment by implimenting arrest, convictions, and $FINES$ to the highest degree.

I have advocated arresting Illegals by the bus loads and still do,.yet that doesnt mean Im against people wanting a better life for themselves and their familys and loved ones,...

But compassion must be met with understanding.

Understanding that the previous 7 Amnesties had zero effect on stopping more Illegals from entering our country, in fact, its had an exact opposit effect, encourging more Illegals to venture the journey to our country, because we DONT met out the Punishment to Illegals the way we should.

Now with Obama and others still pushing an Amnesty for Illegals its just going to continue to make matters worse by over burdening our system,...then here will come a flood of more Illegals.

See where Im going with this ?

I dont think opening the borders is going to do anything to help our Economy one bit.
The only thing it will do is make matters worse.

So YES,..lets start busting these Employers that Hire Illegals, and make an example of them.

Hopefully that will set an example, and hopefully it would start the turning of the tides as far as Illegals expecting to get jobs here in the US.

Just think how unfare it is to the people that have filled out the proper paperwork to get Visas to come to our country, and apply for citizenship,...only to be over run by the Illegals that will be granted citizenship before them , if Obama and followers have their way?

Common Sense, seems to be in very short supply these days.

I've been called out, as inhumane, insensitive, a bigot, a racist, among other things,
yet I love my friends, my neighbors, of all colors,...and I love my family, of different colors,...

I strive to continue my efforts in my community to ensure we all have the same rights, and the ability to live in, and walk our streets in safety, and help to make sure that our laws are enforced, even if it means someone must go to jail, a place I dont wish on anyone.

But if you break the Law,..Our Law,..and you are caught, you have to face the courts decision, be that what it may.

It saddens me to see one side of the Law trying to do its best to controll this Illegal problem, then see the other side of the law trying to stop the efforts of the others.

When we all get behind our Laws, and apply them equily, the way they should be, then maybe we could solve our problems without punishing the ones thats only offence is trying to build a better life for them and their familys.

Its time we all get on the same page, and encourage our leaders to do the same.

Instead of worrying about Health care, Obama should be worried about our Economy,
Our Troops, Creating Jobs,..so that more people may WORK,..then address the issue of Illegals, and figure out a way to solve the Illegal problem by adding a "Fast track" to approving applicatiants already waiting in line, then figure out exactly how many Visas we can approve, per year, to allow more people to come to America, in "Legal" status,..instead of as Illegals.
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