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Show ALL Forums  > Current Events  > The New USA War....."Illegals"....      Home login  
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 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 68
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The New USA War.....Illegals....Page 5 of 5    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5)

IF,....we ever get serious,....as Punishment,..we could use these "illegals" to build the Fence at the Border,..saving Millions in Labor, then where their time is up,..ship them to the other side with a Warning,..

"You come back again, and we catch you again,...your looking at 5 to 10 years Hard Labor !"

Getting the "illegals" to go back home wouldn't even be hard if every News paper from Coast to Coast had the same Headlines,...
ILLEGALS TOLD TO LEAVE, OR BE DEPORTED-ANY ILLEGALS CAUGHT AFTER THIS 90 DAY GRACE PERIOD WILL GO TO PRISON FOR 5-10 YEARS-THEN DEPORTED
For a person who is so concerned about what the supposed "illegals" are costing the US just being here on the streets, that would be a drop in the bucket compared to what it would cost the US to lock up all of the supposed "illegals" ... and then for 5 - 10 years?

It's also against the law to work inmates at "Hard Labor", so now you're talking about needing to change still another law in addition to the law that gives a person born in the US citizenship status.

I guess you've got a lot of work cut out for yourself there ... eh?
 Imported_labor
Joined: 3/7/2008
Msg: 69
The New USA War.....Illegals....
Posted: 10/28/2009 10:18:55 AM
OK,...I wanted to read from your point of view,...but all you links did, was take me to a Web Page, of Search Links,...not a direct link.


The link is at the bottom of the quoted article. I tested it by putting it in the address line and clicked GO. It went directly to the article.

I understand that you want to have the "illegal aliens" removed from the country. I am not against controlling the "illegal immigration" problem that we have, but I don't have any illusions that just by deporting millions of Mexicans we will solve the problem once in for all times. Unless the underlying problems are resolved we will continue having the same problems, as people will continue taking their chances by crossing the border without authorization if they know that employers are hiring people without legal documents.

I am against the policies that encourage people to trample over other people's rights. I am especially opposed to giving carte blanche to criminals to violate the rights of American citizens and legal residents in the name of enforcement of the laws. Once you start giving the law enforcement agents reasons to act like criminals, by giving them quotas of arrest that they need to meet, or by offering them bonuses based on the number of arrests, there will be nothing to stop them from behaving like criminals. They will surely violate the rights of anyone who looks or sounds like an illegal alien. They may even help themselves to objects of value belonging to the people that they arrest, because their main motivation will be to profit from their enterprise of arresting "illegals," just as much as the employers of illegal aliens who knowingly hire them to exploit their labor, and then when payday comes, the employer calls the MIGRA to raid the place so the "illegals" have to run away without getting paid for their labor.

Check this story. (link provided below the quoted article.)


Report Says Immigration Agents Broke Laws and Agency Rules in Home Raids
By NINA BERNSTEIN
Published: July 22, 2009 The New York Times

Armed federal immigration agents have illegally pushed and shoved their way into homes in New York and New Jersey in hundreds of predawn raids that violated their own agency rules as well as the Constitution, according to a study to be released on Wednesday by the Benjamin N. Cardozo School of Law.

The study by the school’s Immigration Justice Law Clinic, backed by several law enforcement experts including Nassau County’s police commissioner, found a widespread pattern of misconduct by agents from Immigration and Customs Enforcement after analyzing 700 arrest reports obtained from the agency through Freedom of Information lawsuits.

The raids were supposed to focus on dangerous criminals, but overwhelmingly netted Latinos with civil immigration violations who happened to be present, the study said. Raiders mistakenly held legal residents and citizens by force in their own homes while agents rummaged through drawers seeking incriminating documents, the report said.

Acting without judicial search warrants, the agents were required to obtain informed consent from a resident before they entered a private residence. But the study found that in 86 percent of the Nassau and Suffolk County arrest reports that it analyzed, and a quarter of the New Jersey cases, no consent was recorded.

“If any local law enforcement agency in the nation were involved in these types of widespread constitutional violations it would prompt a federal investigation,” said Lawrence W. Mulvey, the Nassau police commissioner, who led a panel that guided the Cardozo report. “Federal immigration agents simply need to play by the same rules as every other law enforcement officer.”

Immigration and Customs Enforcement responded with a brief e-mail statement defending the conduct of its agents and the home raids — the same kind of response it has made to similar criticism since the Bush administration vastly expanded their use in 2006."

In 2007, Mr. Mulvey sharply criticized raids that brought scores of agents from around the country to Long Island, some brandishing shotguns, and rousted many citizens and legal residents from their beds in what Nassau officials called a poorly planned antigang operation.

The report said a similar “cowboy mentality” emerged in many other raids. In Paterson, N.J., last year, legal residents from Guatemala and their 9-year-old son, a United States citizen, were threatened with guns by immigration agents who had entered their home while the boy’s mother was in the shower.

In a Staten Island case, an immigration judge recently ruled that the conduct of agents acting without a warrant was an “egregious violation” of fundamental fairness; they had entered a man’s bedroom armed with pistols, “forced him into the hall and required him to stand in his underwear before his brother, sister-in-law and their children.”

In an e-mail message obtained under a Freedom of Information request, a federal immigration agent in Connecticut invited a state trooper to join a scheduled set of raids in New Haven, writing: “We have 18 addresses — so it should be a fun time! Let me know if you guys can play!”

The report also found a strong suggestion of racial profiling in the difference between the ethnicity of the named targets — 66 percent Latino — and of the “collateral” arrests — 87 percent Latino in New Jersey and 94 percent on Long Island.

Such concerns have surfaced repeatedly around the country in news articles and lawsuits since 2006, when the Bush administration raised the arrest quota of each raiding team eightfold, to 1,000 a year.

Six months into the Obama administration, with the same spokesmen in place from the Bush years, Immigration and Customs Enforcement responded to the Cardozo report with a general defense of its agents.

"The men and women of I.C.E. are sworn to uphold the laws of our nation,” the agency said in an e-mailed statement. “We do so professionally, humanely and with an acute awareness with the impact enforcement has on the individuals we encounter. While I.C.E. prioritizes our efforts by targeting fugitives who have demonstrated a threat to national security or public safety, we have a clear mandate to pursue all immigration fugitives."

The Cardozo report said that Janet Napolitano, secretary of the Department of Homeland Security, had changed some policies that contributed to the abuses it found, like eliminating the arrest quota. But the report recommended more drastic steps.

Home raids should be “a tactic of last resort, reserved for high-priority targets,” and then only after agents have obtained judicial warrants, the report urged. A high-level supervisor should be on site, and home raids should be videotaped, it recommended.

Agents should have to note why they initially seized and questioned any person, the study said. “That’s the bread and butter of any arrest report,” said Peter L. Markowitz, who teaches at Cardozo and is one of the report’s authors. Such a note was missing from two-thirds of the arrest reports analyzed in the study.


http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/22/nyregion/22raids.html

So my question is Who are behaving like criminals?

My main concern is avoiding these situations by not giving anyone the incentive to behave like criminals when enforcing the laws. That is the reason why I prefer to enforce the law against the employers, because there is no need to make "mistakes" where the victims are always people who look and sound like the "illegal aliens."

Enforcing the laws against the employers of "illegal aliens" doesn't require acting violently, or trampling over people's civil and human rights. All it takes is to accumulate enough evidence to haul them into court, prove them guilty, fine them out of business, and give them a good vacation in the slammer.

Do a few of those and you will see how fast the other employers get the message, and the "illegals" start heading home when they can't get a job.

It may not be perfect, but that is my position.
 whisper67520
Joined: 9/29/2006
Msg: 70
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The New USA War.....Illegals....
Posted: 10/28/2009 12:59:01 PM

Enforcing the laws against the employers of "illegal aliens" doesn't require acting violently, or trampling over people's civil and human rights. All it takes is to accumulate enough evidence to haul them into court, prove them guilty, fine them out of business, and give them a good vacation in the slammer.

Do a few of those and you will see how fast the other employers get the message, and the "illegals" start heading home when they can't get a job.



I must say.........I agree with you.....100%
 Imported_labor
Joined: 3/7/2008
Msg: 71
The New USA War.....Illegals....
Posted: 10/28/2009 1:53:27 PM

I must say.........I agree with you.....100%


Who would have thought of it?

Are you sure that you want to do that?

You're not kidding with me, are you?

I'm still shocked! This is the first time that I get someone from the other side to agree with me, 100% no less!

I think that I will go downstairs and treat myself to some tea and cookies to celebrate this event.
 whisper67520
Joined: 9/29/2006
Msg: 72
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History
The New USA War.....Illegals....
Posted: 11/13/2009 8:56:54 AM

1,200 Illegal Workers Fired in Minnesota
Tuesday, November 10, 2009, 11:20 AM EST - posted on NumbersUSA


Minneapolis, Minn.
In the largest immigration enforcement action under the Obama Administration, 1,200 illegal aliens working as janitors in Minnesota were fired last month. The illegal aliens worked for a San Francisco-based company, ABM, that is contracted to clean many of the office buildings in Minneapolis and St. Paul.

Shifting from the Bush policy of conducting worksite enforcement actions, the Obama Administration pressured the company to fire the illegal workers. The company has not said how big their Minnesota workforce was, but legal workers who continue working said about 80 percent of the workforce was fired.

Unlike the Bush-era enforcement actions, no action was taken against the fired workers. ABM will likely be prosecuted. Former ICE agent, Mark Cangemi, is unsure if the new strategy will prove to be effective.

"Why give people an opportunity to leave the employment without taking any action against them as individuals?" Cangemi told Minnesota Public Radio. "Put them into proceedings. Let them argue their case. If they have a case that allows them to remain in the United States under the law, so be it. If they don't, then the law stands to be enforced."

In an interview with MPR, an anonymous janitor said, "I really want people to hear -- and if possible even get to the ears of President Barack Obama -- that we don't come here for anything other than to work."

The unemployment rate in Minnesota in September was 7.3%. Of the 1,200 job openings created by the firings, apparently all the jobs have been filled.


Pressure of this sort, will help to turn the tide of the "illegal problem." If your company hires or does business with companies that hire "illegals" speak up and open jobs for unemployed Americans. There are unemployed Americans, waiting to fill these job openings.
 Imported_labor
Joined: 3/7/2008
Msg: 73
The New USA War.....Illegals....
Posted: 1/8/2010 9:55:32 AM
Pressure of this sort, will help to turn the tide of the "illegal problem." If your company hires or does business with companies that hire "illegals" speak up and open jobs for unemployed Americans. There are unemployed Americans, waiting to fill these job openings.


That's right! Who would have thought that all these pillars of our society would be braking the laws on immigration, undermining the economic stability of our country and impoverishing the lives of working Americans just to line their own pockets?

Who is the enemy is this war? Maybe they don't all look like the vegetable pickers, you know, short pants, huaraches on their feet, and wide brim Mexican sombrero on their heads. Maybe they just look like the well attired gentleman that you meet every week at your church's services. Who would have thought of it?

Kind of dis-heartening, isn't it?

Now comes the news that the NFL, or at least a part of it, has also joined those who would save a buck by hiring contractors that mosts likely give them the low bids because not all their workers may be documented workers! I know there will be people making excuses for them. As for me, I'm done buying anything that has remotely any link with the NFL. And this will apply to the companies that advertise during their games. I will consciously make an effort to buy brands other than those linked to the NFL.

Check this link:

http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2010/01/08/detained_immigrants_were_set_to_clear_gillette_snow/

"Dozens of immigrants pulled over Wednesday in Foxborough during a federal search for fugitives from deportation were on their way to Gillette Stadium to shovel snow before this weekend’s New England Patriots playoff game, Guatemala’s consul in Rhode Island said yesterday.

The federal operation, possibly the largest involving Guatemalan nationals since the 2007 raid on a leather-goods factory in New Bedford, raises questions about the legal status of temporary workers at one of the state’s premier sports complexes, and about the responsibility of companies that hire subcontractors to verify the legal status of their employees."

The rest of the article found at link posted above.
 BikerBiker53
Joined: 6/11/2005
Msg: 74
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The New USA War.....Illegals....
Posted: 1/8/2010 4:06:41 PM
I just wanted to respond to the article that states that,...



“If any local law enforcement agency in the nation were involved in these types of widespread constitutional violations it would prompt a federal investigation,” said Lawrence W. Mulvey, the Nassau police commissioner, who led a panel that guided the Cardozo report. “Federal immigration agents simply need to play by the same rules as every other law enforcement officer.”


Law Enforcement Agencys across the nation, has went above and beyond peoples Constituional Rights, and Legal Rights, probably Hundreds of Thousands of times,..its just that you dont hear about it often,.....

Our Civil and Constitutional rights have become meaningless, unless you happen to have a Lawyer present,..or capture it on Video,..then you still have to prove you case in court....either way its gonna cost you.

But for all the "Abuse Of Power" that some of the Law Enforcement have used,..it still is the best defence we have against Criminals.

Its just too bad we have so many Bleeding Heart Liberals that insist that Criminals have more Rights, then their Victims.

Now as far as "Illegals" go,..they should have NO RIGHTS,..and not be subject to the
provisions that American Citizens are protected by,...but still should be treeted Civil, as Im sure most are.

If Illegals do not want to be rousted out of bed at pre dawn hours, then they should NOT be here as an Illegal.

What part of "ILLEGAL" do people NOT Understand ?

These people are Law Breakers, and a lot of times they are repeat Law Breakers.

The first Offence is NOT a Felony,...but after being Deported once, and returning, it becomes a FELONY,..yet most get a slap on the wrist, and Deported,...Again.

Most Illegals are Repeat Offenders,..Drug Runners,...Criminals,...and Sex Offenders.

Do YOU still what to whine about ILLEGALS RIGHTS ???

Try going to some other Countries as an Illegal, and see how YOU get treeted.
 scorpiomover
Joined: 4/19/2007
Msg: 75
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The New USA War.....Illegals....
Posted: 1/11/2010 8:51:34 AM
RE Msg: 107 by Montreal_Guy:
Count me in with those that support the idea of making sure ANY company that knowingly hires an illegal alien to do work will face brutal fines - and that those responsible for deciding to hire them face the real possibility of jail time for doing so.
In the UK, it used to be illegal to employ illegals, and companies would face heavy fines for doing so. Then the law was repealed, and suddenly immigration swelled.

The trouble with that is that illegals can be abused to make more profit, and they often wind up paying money into government plans that they will never collect on as an illegal. Those that do so benefit handsomely, while both illegals and Americans suffer.
The same goes for the UK. Money talks. Of course, in the longer term, the problems due to illegals working illegally is likely to make things worse. But few seem to be interested in long-term capitalism, only in short-term capitalism.
 Imported_labor
Joined: 3/7/2008
Msg: 76
The New USA War.....Illegals....
Posted: 1/12/2010 1:48:02 PM

The same goes for the UK. Money talks. Of course, in the longer term, the problems due to illegals working illegally is likely to make things worse. But few seem to be interested in long-term capitalism, only in short-term capitalism.


The NY Times reported yesterday that Italy is experiencing its own war dealing with immigrants, legal and illegal.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/11/world/europe/11italy.html?scp=1&sq=immigrants%20+%20Italy&st=cse


Race Riots Grip Italian Town, and Mafia Is Suspected
By RACHEL DONADIO
Published: January 10, 2010
ROME — More than a thousand African workers were put aboard buses and trains in the southern Italian region of Calabria over the weekend and shipped out to immigrant detention centers, following some of the country’s worst riots in years.

The clashes began Thursday night in Rosarno, a working-class city amid citrus groves in Calabria, the toe of Italy’s boot, after a legal immigrant from Togo was lightly wounded in a pellet-gun attack in a nearby city. It is not clear who pulled the trigger — the authorities said they were investigating whether organized crime had provoked the riots — but the consequences were severe.

Blaming racism for the attack, dozens of immigrants burned cars and smashed shop windows in Rosarno in two days of riots, throwing rocks at local residents and fighting with the police. More than 50 immigrants and police officers were wounded, none seriously, and 10 immigrants and locals were arrested before the authorities began sending the immigrants to detention centers elsewhere in southern Italy on Saturday.

The images emerging from Calabria over the weekend — of torched cars and angry African immigrants hurling rocks — were the most vivid example of the growing racial tensions in Italy, which have been exacerbated by an economic crisis whose depth has only recently been acknowledged in the national dialogue. Both the official and underground economies increasingly rely on immigrants, while Italy remains torn between acceptance and xenophobia.


[Complete article and pictures found at link posted above]

Interestingly enough, the police, in response to information that the Mafia was involved, has acted swiftly enough by arresting those suspected in the provocation of violence.


Italy Arrests 12 Mafia Suspects In Race Riot Town
By REUTERS
Published: January 12, 2010

Police arrested 12 mafia suspects Tuesday in the southern town plagued by racial violence last week, in a swoop the interior minister said was the best response to organised crime's exploitation of immigrants.

Police said they had dismantled the local clan in the town of Rosarno of the 'Ndrangheta, Italy's most powerful mafia group, which operates out of the southern Calabria region.

They issued 17 warrants for mafia activity, including five for people already in prison on other charges.

Interior Minister Roberto Maroni used the arrests to head off criticism of his handling of the violence, in which more than 50 people were injured in clashes between locals and African immigrants.

"This is the best answer we could give," Maroni told parliament. "It is the proof that the state is present in Calabria and will not let up in hunting down the 'Ndrangheta."

The government evacuated most immigrants from Rosarno over the weekend, sending those without residence papers to centres from which they risk expulsion to their countries of origin, and helping others to leave the town to avoid attacks by residents.

The opposition attacked Maroni for saying the Rosarno violence was due to excessive "tolerance" of illegal immigration, and some media commentators, including the Vatican newspaper, said racism was on the rise in Italy.

Some 8,000 illegal immigrants work in Calabria, most as day labourers picking fruit and vegetables, and critics say authorities turn a blind eye until it stops being politically convenient to do so.

Many live in abandoned factories with no running water or electricity and human rights groups say they are exploited by the 'Ndrangheta.

Protesters in central Rome carried oranges covered in fake blood to symbolise the violence towards immigrants and their exploitation in Italy's citrus fruit harvests.

Egypt's foreign ministry said the Rosarno incident showed "religious and racial discrimination and hatred of foreigners," and called on the international community to respond.

Italian Foreign Minister Franco Frattini said the violence was "unacceptable" but had no religious motives.


http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2010/01/12/world/international-uk-italy-mafia-racism.html?_r=1&scp=7&sq=immigrants%20+%20Italy&st=cse
 BikerBiker53
Joined: 6/11/2005
Msg: 77
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The New USA War.....Illegals....
Posted: 2/14/2010 10:08:04 AM
Im glad to see that a lot of people understand and agree that our nations laws should be upheld, and that Employers who Hire Illegals should face harsh punishment by implimenting arrest, convictions, and $FINES$ to the highest degree.

I have advocated arresting Illegals by the bus loads and still do,.yet that doesnt mean Im against people wanting a better life for themselves and their familys and loved ones,...

But compassion must be met with understanding.

Understanding that the previous 7 Amnesties had zero effect on stopping more Illegals from entering our country, in fact, its had an exact opposit effect, encourging more Illegals to venture the journey to our country, because we DONT met out the Punishment to Illegals the way we should.

Now with Obama and others still pushing an Amnesty for Illegals its just going to continue to make matters worse by over burdening our system,...then here will come a flood of more Illegals.

See where Im going with this ?

I dont think opening the borders is going to do anything to help our Economy one bit.
The only thing it will do is make matters worse.

So YES,..lets start busting these Employers that Hire Illegals, and make an example of them.

Hopefully that will set an example, and hopefully it would start the turning of the tides as far as Illegals expecting to get jobs here in the US.

Just think how unfare it is to the people that have filled out the proper paperwork to get Visas to come to our country, and apply for citizenship,...only to be over run by the Illegals that will be granted citizenship before them , if Obama and followers have their way?

Common Sense, seems to be in very short supply these days.

I've been called out, as inhumane, insensitive, a bigot, a racist, among other things,
yet I love my friends, my neighbors, of all colors,...and I love my family, of different colors,...

I strive to continue my efforts in my community to ensure we all have the same rights, and the ability to live in, and walk our streets in safety, and help to make sure that our laws are enforced, even if it means someone must go to jail, a place I dont wish on anyone.

But if you break the Law,..Our Law,..and you are caught, you have to face the courts decision, be that what it may.

It saddens me to see one side of the Law trying to do its best to controll this Illegal problem, then see the other side of the law trying to stop the efforts of the others.

When we all get behind our Laws, and apply them equily, the way they should be, then maybe we could solve our problems without punishing the ones thats only offence is trying to build a better life for them and their familys.

Its time we all get on the same page, and encourage our leaders to do the same.

Instead of worrying about Health care, Obama should be worried about our Economy,
Our Troops, Creating Jobs,..so that more people may WORK,..then address the issue of Illegals, and figure out a way to solve the Illegal problem by adding a "Fast track" to approving applicatiants already waiting in line, then figure out exactly how many Visas we can approve, per year, to allow more people to come to America, in "Legal" status,..instead of as Illegals.
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