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Joined: 4/2/2006
Msg: 99
Things in Afghanastan- what is there if you look.Page 4 of 19    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19)
John, in case you haven't noticed, several of these people function in another reality than the rest of us - they lie about or deny what they said, cite sources that make the other side's point and then claim you are putting a 'spin' on it (that got me howling!), impute their own meanings to what they read - cite dictionary definitions for a word that purportedly describes them, i.e. liberal, and claim that since the word has a positive meaning, then liberalism must be even more wonderful - what I absolutely cannot figure out for the life of me is, how do liberals and democrats get elected, when these are the types of people who support them. Can't they figure it out? Oh wait...I just answered my own question, didn't I?
If it weren't for the one or two liberals (LIEberals?) with intelligence who occasionally show up here, I'd abandon the forums entirely. With them, there's hope of intelligent discourse, even when we do disagree.
Joined: 4/2/2006
Msg: 100
Things in Afghanastan- what is there if you look.
Posted: 10/22/2007 9:21:21 PM
""I have no idea how any one can say there is not good stuff happening. Our combat troops are winning as well , have in every battle."

@ dunrich - The people who are decrying what is happening in Afghanistan are people with an agenda. They hate it when strong minded and/or conservative initiatives work, they hate it when their "limp-wristed, 'love all the misunderstood terrorists', hate America" philosophy is shown to be not just wrong, but foolish and mean spirited too. There are people on this thread who believe that the only goal in Afghanistan and Iraq is to rape and pillage these countries of whatever wealth can be found. They absolutely cannot believe that, by a determined show of force, that evil people can be forced to retreat so that good can prevail, that by standing strong and supporting the decent people of these countries, that they can and will ultimately prevail. It is a complete rout of their philosphy (if we can grace their stinkin' thinkin' with that term) to see that might sometimes IS right...that sometimes in this world, you have to stand up and fight for what you believe in.
They would rather see America run from this fight - and leave the women and children of these countries to suffer again under the Taliban, they would rather the medical facilities were never built and the schools never re-opened. "What", they say, "that isn't what we want at all! We want all these things...."
Well, if America and Canada and the forces supporting these rebuilding efforts should abandon the fight, as these liberal minded posters want, then all of those things will come to pass - and worse. And anyone who says different is either stupid, or wilfully ignorant of the facts, because when Taliban was ruling, they had the chance to do these things - and didn't.
Joined: 5/16/2006
Msg: 101
Things in Afghanastan- what is there if you look.
Posted: 10/22/2007 10:05:20 PM
"You are an arrogant cryptofascist bully who is a patsy to the man and can't see THE REAL REASON"

"You're a stupid hippie coward who wants to solve all the worlds problems with rainbows and kittens"
Joined: 4/2/2006
Msg: 102
Things in Afghanastan- what Main Stream Media Is Not Reporting
Posted: 10/22/2007 11:06:48 PM
@ paderB - great stuff, thanks for the contribution to this discussion, nice to have some facts instead of silly suppositions from wooly minded left wingers who have never been there and who only read about the situation from people who have ... never been there.
I wouldn't expect much of a response to your post tho - most of the people on this thread have a problem with reality and tend largely to either deny or ignore it.
Joined: 6/4/2007
Msg: 103
Positive Things in Afghanastan- what Main Stream Media Is Not Reporting
Posted: 10/23/2007 3:34:03 AM
great post.

its about time people get to read about the good thats being done. but its funny. all you ever hear is about the bad. and when you read about the good. its (propaganda) being fed to you. to the media death sells. sorry but its true.

i stand behind all the soldiers who are fighting for all of us. and to them i say.

thank you come home safe and i am proud of you all.

Joined: 5/13/2006
Msg: 104
Positive Things in Afghanastan- what Main Stream Media Is Not Reporting
Posted: 10/23/2007 7:50:07 AM
PaderB Great to hear your input.

It verifies what I have been hearing talking to soldiers on face book, where they have groups supporting the troops . Also what I have been told by 3 family members who have served there , one of whom will be returning in Feb.

Of the perhaps 20 soldiers that I have talked to about Afghanistan, ( including some Americans ) not one has showed any question about the work we are doing there.

One chap I use to work with, whose son served there in the artillery last year, has knocked it. Dont know how much of that was from him or his son though.

Polls taken in Afghanistan this week also showed great support for Nato and the work they are doing there. Thanks again for the first person report.

The press is really not getting the good stuff out like they should. Guess only bad news sells papers.
Joined: 8/13/2006
Msg: 105
Positive Things in Afghanastan- what Main Stream Media Is Not Reporting
Posted: 10/23/2007 8:42:47 AM
To dunrich, PaderB, and gottabeme. All this thread really shows is the wide gulf between those with an apparent personal bias against doing "anything" in Afghanistan and those that have no agenda and truly want to help the Afghan people.

I'm on the side of help.

Joined: 5/13/2006
Msg: 106
Positive Things in Afghanastan- what Main Stream Media Is Not Reporting
Posted: 10/23/2007 9:27:57 AM
Hey Motown

Something I notice is the guys with their feet on the ground there, all support helping the Afghan people.

The ones back here in safe N America, are the ones knocking the effort.

Quite funny really, we have the NDP `ers here , saying we should be in Darfur rather than Afghanistan. " Peace Keeping".

Duh, guess they just want our troops to watch and take notes though, since they are opposed to using force to stop massacres. Proud of traditional Peacekeeping like in Ruwanda where the UN watched blood letting, against what is being done in Afghanistan.

Personally, I am proud of our troops there, was ashamed of the UN missions where they were not allowed to stop genocide.

Support the troops!
Joined: 8/13/2006
Msg: 107
Positive Things in Afghanastan- what Main Stream Media Is Not Reporting
Posted: 10/23/2007 10:33:35 AM
Dunrich, the people that write on these thread topics usually fall into these categories when it comes to force......

No force or intervention whatsoever – Of course, what they "really" mean is no force from one side, usually by what they consider "evil and exploiting" USA and her allies, because there's plenty of force being applied by endemic groups in regions where conflict is epidemic. The UN is usually a toothless tiger, and their "peace-keeping" efforts devoid of any real peace keeping because they avoid military response at what seems like all costs.

Force, but under such stringent rules one side is basically handcuffed – Again, it’s usually one-sided and prejudiced against everybody's favorite target and NOT the groups doing most of the intimidation, torture, killing, and genocide.

Force used sparingly, and targeting only those that won't stop fueling the violence – This is always open to interpretation, because one side's insurgent or terrorist is another side's "freedom fighter". That's why you have to look at a conflict's history, background, dynamics, and motive of the people involved. I believe we're applying this doctrine in Afghanistan and Iraq, although I know many disagree and think, through their distorted lens, that WE'RE the only "aggressors" in both situations.

Use overwhelming force in all situations – This "show the bad guys whose boss, bomb them back to the Stone Age, make the country a parking lot" mindset, which is just as extreme as the Do-Nothing advocates, and equally as dangerous.

Obviously, I'm only for the third option because in many situations "some" force is not only required, but desperately needed. Darfur is a classic current example. That genocide has been practically crying out for military intervention for how long?, but the UN is unwilling to commit the necessary troops and resources, and the rest of the world is evidently content to watch on the sidelines and would rather waste time heaping abuse on everybody's favorite Boogie Man and Bad Guy of choice, the US. I'm rather tired of it, frankly.
Joined: 5/13/2006
Msg: 108
Positive Things in Afghanastan- what Main Stream Media Is Not Reporting
Posted: 10/23/2007 2:39:48 PM

That is a very good assessment, nothing more can be added to it.

Afghanistan is a better place today because of American/ Canuck intervention. The Afghans agree , so dont let the anti Yank crowd get you down.

They are wrong, completely.
Joined: 5/13/2006
Msg: 111
Things in Afghanastan- what is there if you look.
Posted: 10/23/2007 9:46:29 PM
In 2001 , seven hundred thousand children were enrolled in school, all boys. In 2007 , six million, including 2 million girls, are enrolled. This is direectly related to the program EQUIP. Biggest contributor to EQUIP ? Canada with a contribution of 60 million. This is being paid for salaraies of 270,000 civil servants. Of those 270,000 civil servants , 144,000 of them are teachers.

7 million children have recieved immunization shots , from Canuck sponsored programs. This is all available from the Canadian Governmnet web site on Afghanistan.

You know what bothers me ? If this information is available to any body, then its a certainty that the left wing politicains also have these figures.

Why wouldnt Jack Layton and especially Dion, not be bragging about what Canada has done over there? Especially Dion! Yes, it was his government who rightly sent our troops to Afghanistan which led to this good work being done.

For political expediency, these two charltans would ignore work done by their own people, and have Canada quit doing probably the most important foreign affairs mission done by Canada since WW2.

Kind of reminds me of the movie Dirty Rotten Scoundrels ", loL.

Then you have the press, doing nothing to point out the work done by the sacrifices of NATO Troops that ensures the security that makes all this possible.

A whole generation of Afghanis will now have oppurtunities that would never have happened under the heavy hand of the Taliban.

Guess the left wants to talk the talk of woman rights, education, helping unfortunates, not willing to walk it though. No wonder Dion has so many of his own party trying to dump him. There are some liberals who are willing to walk it.

Quite ironic , the same ones who like to knock the US for being uncaring, militaristic, are the ones wanting the US to stop doing all this good work that is going on in Afghanistan. This is one mission done right, both militarily and in aiding the country involved.

For the US bashers, this is the Marshall plan of this century. Not just a symbol ( UN loves symbols) of US generosity, but the real thing. Canada has been an integral part of this rebuilding of a nation, with a say and prominence we have never had previously in history !

All paid for by the blood of our brave soldiers who had a higher calling. While we have fought many battles, lead many victories, never has Canada had such a direct impact in the peace afterwards ,as we were always overshadowed by larger Nations. Not in this case though, most of the larger nations kept caveats to keep their soldiers from the south. This time, Canada lead the way in the south.

Never have I been so proud of being a Canuck.

If I could, I would buy every Canuck, Yank, Brit, Rommanian , Dutch soldier who fought in the south a drink. For they have rewritten history. The new one, is a lot kinder , gentler and more secure one.

Since I noticed this thread I am amazed at the progress that has been made there. Previously I was mostly interested in the military aspects. Have been amazed at how much rebuilding, electrical lines, generators, even 180 street lamps in Kabul, all in place and working from Canuck involvement.

Pull out now, let it all be for naught? That isnt the true Canadian way. we didnt run after the terrible losses of Dieppe, Vimy, D Day. We shouldnt run from this one. Yes, the " torch' mentioned in Flanders Fields was passed on to this generation of Canadian troops, they caught it and ran with it.
Joined: 8/13/2006
Msg: 112
Things in Afghanastan- what is there if you look.
Posted: 10/24/2007 4:43:48 AM
Bravo, Dunrich. Canadians have done amazing things in Afghanistan and many other places.

People doing any brave, dedicated, challenging, unselfish work to help others usually don't blow their own horn and crave media attention for their personal gain. The press, even when they're well-meaning, is usually more drawn to stories involving violence and death because the situations are more dramatic, emotional, and, quite frankly, "sexy" to the wider public. That doesn't mean the quiet, "boring" stories of good deeds should go unnoticed or unheralded, and maybe in some small way a few people in this thread are illuminating such work. The more the better. Here's my addition……

Afghanistan Reconstruction (updated August 17th, 2007)

Since 2001, the United States has provided more than 14 billion dollars to support the rebuilding effort. And in January, U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice announced that President Bush would ask Congress for an additional 10.6 billion dollars for the next two years.

The additional funds would be used for security and reconstruction projects such as road building, electricity generation, rural development and agriculture, and training centers. Such reconstruction efforts by the United States and the international community are paying off. The Afghan economy is growing. More than one billion dollars were invested in 2006, double the amount of 2005, and over 3,000 kilometers of roads have been completed.

Reconstruction Team's Projects Are Afghan Community Favorites

White House: America's Fund for Afghan Children

Other Rebuilding Efforts

Rebuilding Afghanistan Archive

Humanitarian Missions as Important as Combat for U.S. Military

These are exactly the types of things the Taliban is trying to disrupt and destroy in order to sabotage efforts and win the country back. They have nothing to offer but fear, poverty, profound austerity, and no hope for a better life.

It's also amazing all the haters have been silent the past couple days? Maybe they've moved on to greener pastures? Better to find threads where their bias and one-sided diatribes get more sympathy and approval. Threads like these take too much work.
Joined: 5/13/2006
Msg: 113
Things in Afghanastan- what is there if you look.
Posted: 10/24/2007 6:49:52 AM

All that work is not going unnoticed. An Environics poll taken in Afghanistan for the C.B .C shows a lot of support there for the progress being made.

79% Nationally and 81% in Kandahar province , feel that the Karzai Governmnet is going in the right direction. It was a very in depth poll, where managers running it, went to homes to verify that they had indeed been polled.

The US , Canada , Britain etc. are on the right track there.

While there are a lot of US bashers around the world, you wont find them to be a magority in Afghanistan ( or the Balkans, Rommania , Poland ) The US is showing her true spirit over there, and many lives are the better for it.

I am proud that Canada has been a full partner in this endeavor , and very impressed with the US for its humanitarian spirit. ( Am sure that will stir up the loons,lol)

Twenty years from now, history will show that the work done there by Nato, was the right thing at the right time. All of it, done through the efforts of the Afghan army, supported by troops from the few brave NATO countries who keep the Taliban foreigners at bay in the south.

The RCR`S, Lord Strathconas Horse Rebiment , Princess Pats, Van Doos , 82nd airbourne are but just a few of the groups who have made this possible. God bless them all.

For the lasting peace their work is not finished, that border with Pakistan has to be taken care of sooner or later. Am optimistic that more support in that reagard will be forthcoming from Pakistan. Bhuttos return last week, and the courage she is showing against the cowardly bombers , augers well for that goal.
Joined: 8/13/2006
Msg: 114
Things in Afghanastan- what is there if you look.
Posted: 10/24/2007 7:31:04 AM
To put things we're doing in places like Afghanistan in perspective, California is enduring its worst series of brush fires in history. There is literally a 190 mile swath of destruction from north to south in the state, and it's getting larger, leaving tens of thousands homeless, hundreds of thousands evacuated, and billions in property destroyed. The Cali governor, Schwarzenegger, has declared the zone a national disaster and is calling for help. Just how many critics and haters in other countries that have benefited from American humanitarian aid and relief in times of crisis are lining up to give that help?

Not many I bet.
Joined: 5/13/2006
Msg: 115
Things in Afghanastan- what is there if you look.
Posted: 10/24/2007 7:50:48 AM
Well my freind, we have read support here for those who attacked the innocent on 9/11. Would not be surprised at all to find sickos who will actually enjoy watching the devastation there. Just as there were on 9/11 .

Then there are the loons, ones who think that 9/11 was an "inside job". probably they will be saying George Bush set the fires him self, wouldnt surprise me at all.

I better check and see what help Canada has offered or if. I know we did for Katrina, 9/11 , and helped smuggle the embassy staff from Tehran back in the Iranian hostage days. Hopefully, we are as quick to the plate for this disaster.

For one thing I know for sure, if something happened in Canada, you Yanks would be streaming across the border to help us.
Joined: 5/13/2006
Msg: 116
Things in Afghanastan- what is there if you look.
Posted: 10/24/2007 8:15:52 AM
The Quebec governmnet has already sent 2 CL-45 water bombers , they are willing to send more and have ordered crews to prepare equipment.

British Columbia has sent 1 H21 Water Bomber ( more being prepared right now for immediate dispatch) , Forest Minister Rich Coleman, is not waiting for an official request for more help. He has ordered an immediate inventory of all assets that can be sent and operating there with in 3 days.

An interesting one, is a private Company called Couson Aviation. They own the 2 largest water bombers in the world. One is already being sent without a contract , crew left in tractor trailors on Sunday with parts etc to keep it flying. They are " scrambling' to get the other one ready as it was part way thorugh getting layed up for winter storage.

These 2 ww2 era planes have the ability to scoop up 7,000 gallons of water in 25 seconds . It can scoop the water, be back over the target in 10 minutes. ( I am going to have to check those planes out more, facinating).

Hopefully the federal govenments are scrambling as well as the Quebec and British Columbia governmnets have been. Nothing shows yet though on a net search. I imagine that fire man all over Canada are also doing what they can to help , they did on 9/11 I know.

This thread has shown amazing contributions made by the US in Afghanistan. The Americans deserve the same help from others in return.
Joined: 8/13/2006
Msg: 117
Things in Afghanastan- what is there if you look.
Posted: 10/24/2007 10:26:05 AM
Dunrich, Canadians have always shown amazing generousity and goodwill whenever America needed help, and I for one am very thankful and appreciative of it.

I'm sure you're familiar with Gordon Sinclair's famous radio speech he delivered back in 1973. I also supplied this on another thread months ago in response to some America bashing. I never tire of reading the text so I hope you won't mind if I indulge.

"LET'S BE PERSONAL" Broadcast June 5, 1973 CFRB, Toronto, Ontario

The United States dollar took another pounding on German, French and British exchanges this morning, hitting the lowest point ever known in West Germany. It has declined there by 41% since 1971 and this Canadian thinks it is time to speak up for the Americans as the most generous and possibly the least-appreciated people in all the world.

As long as sixty years ago, when I first started to read newspapers, I read of floods on the Yellow River and the Yangtse. Well, Who rushed in with men and money to help? The Americans did, that's who.

They have helped control floods on the Nile, the Amazon, the Ganges and the Niger. Today, the rich bottom land of the Mississippi is under water and no foreign land has sent a dollar to help. Germany, Japan and, to a lesser extent, Britain and Italy, were lifted out of the debris of war by the Americans who poured in billions of dollars and forgave other billions in debts. None of those countries is today paying even the interest on its remaining debts to the United States.

When the franc was in danger of collapsing in 1956, it was the Americans who propped it up and their reward was to be insulted and swindled on the streets of Paris. And I was there. I saw that.

When distant cities are hit by earthquakes, it is the United States that hurries into help... Managua Nicaragua is one of the most recent examples. So far this spring, 59 American communities have been flattened by tornadoes. Nobody has helped.

The Marshall Plan... the Truman Policy... all pumped billions upon billions of dollars into discouraged countries. And now, newspapers in those countries are writing about the decadent war-mongering Americans.

I'd like to see one of those countries that is gloating over the erosion of the United States dollar build its own airplanes.

Come on... let's hear it! Does any other country in the world have a plane to equal the Boeing Jumbo Jet, the Lockheed Tristar or the Douglas 10? If so, why don't they fly them? Why do all international lines except Russia fly American planes? Why does no other land on earth even consider putting a man or a woman on the moon?

You talk about Japanese technocracy and you get radios. You talk about German technocracy and you get automobiles. You talk about American technocracy and you find men on the moon, not once, but several times ... and safely home again. You talk about scandals and the Americans put theirs right in the store window for everybody to look at. Even the draft dodgers are not pursued and hounded. They are right here on our streets in Toronto, most of them... unless they are breaking Canadian laws... are getting American dollars from Ma and Pa at home to spend here.

When the Americans get out of this bind... as they will... who could blame them if they said 'the hell with the rest of the world'. Let someone else buy the bonds, let someone else build or repair foreign dams or design foreign buildings that won't shake apart in earthquakes.

When the railways of France, Germany and India were breaking down through age, it was the Americans who rebuilt them. When the Pennsylvania Railroad and the New York Central went broke, nobody loaned them an old caboose. Both of them are still broke. I can name to you 5,000 times when the Americans raced to the help of other people in trouble.

Can you name to me even one time when someone else raced to the Americans in trouble? I don't think there was outside help even during the San Francisco earthquake.

Our neighbours have faced it alone and I am one Canadian who is damned tired of hearing them kicked around. They will come out of this thing with their flag high. And when they do, they are entitled to thumb their noses at the lands that are gloating over their present troubles.

I hope Canada is not one of these. But there are many smug, self-righteous Canadians. And finally, the American Red Cross was told at its 48th Annual meeting in New Orleans this morning that it was broke.

This year's disasters... with the year less than half-over... has taken it all and nobody... but nobody... has helped.

I get very emotional when I read things like this, especially when they come from non-Americans. It shows that there are people out there that don't view everything we do with disgust.

In simple dollars and cents, Americans are the most generous people the world has ever known. And as far as I know, Americans don't parade around reveling in the aid we give and expect the world to fall on their hands and knees in supplication. But a simple "Thank You" once in awhile wouldn't hurt.

For audio of original broadcast:
Joined: 5/13/2006
Msg: 118
Positive Things in Afghanastan- what Main Stream Media Is Not Reporting
Posted: 10/24/2007 11:37:47 AM
Wow Motown , does that quote bring back memories .

Yes I heard it the day Gordon Sinclair said it. My Dad was a big fan of Gordon Sinclair, CFRB was the preset station on the radio when ever he was around.

A station replayed that statement by Gordon Sinclair the day after 9/11 . I was on my way to work when he replayed it. Right away, the memories of hearing it the first time on radio while driving my Dads 66 Chrysler Windsor came back.

It was true then, true on 9/11 2001 and true today . be assured all Americans reading this, the anti American bunch on here are the exception and not the rule up here.

Too many of us were raised by Dads, Grand Dads who saw American and Canadian blood staining the beaches of Normandy , too ever take that sacrifice for granted. Today in Kandahar, the 82nd airborne and Van Doos, are doing the same thing as the troops who freed Europe were doing, fighting evil.

. Our cause is the same, sacrifices the same, and generosity the same. All of us should be proud of what has been accomlished over there, and like the generation of our Parents and Grand Parents should be willing to stay the course. For the cause is just and right.

Just as it was back in their generation whaen they also faced a similiar evil.

Those who say there is no comparison? Fight against evil, which the Taliban represent, has a lot in common with the fight against the Nazi`s. The common denominator, is the courage shown by our collective soldiers.
Joined: 5/13/2006
Msg: 120
Positive Things in Afghanastan- what Main Stream Media Is Not Reporting
Posted: 10/24/2007 5:56:09 PM
I am very impressed with the panel members. John Manley did a real good job in Foreign Affiars, he was very impressive during 9/11. ( I was sorry he didnt run for the liberal leadership ) . Pamela Wallin is a real interesting choice, she is definatley her own person .

Peter Worthingtons assessment is of this panel is pretty accurate I think. This was a very savvy move by Harper, especially with his choices. It is an excellent way to get more infromation out to the public , as the press will not be able to ignore their reports or findings.

Read an interesting article in the Sun today by Licia Corbella. It concerns the poll done by the CBC by Environomics. Guess the CBC were taken by suprise at the positive results for foreign troops in Afghanistan.

She and Garh Pritchard were in Afghanistan a very short time ago. They were quite angry when the CBC showed that shop keeper on the news 2 weeks ago, what she refered to as a " needle in a hay stack" , a person wanting us to vacate the country. She claims of the possible 200 shop keepers, persons ,she asked over there, she had found no one wanting us to leave. Good column, every one should read it, good insight into the CBC.

Peter Worthington also wrote an excellent piece . According to him, the Liberal Star is doing their best to taint the poll results by pointing out that troops from India are more popular than Canucks. Since their humanitarian work is only being carried out because there are troops like Canada fighting in the south though, kind of a mute point.

Havnt checked the Star out my self yet, will have to wait till after the World Series Game, lol . Go Rockies ! (Francis a Canuck i is pitching tonight)
Joined: 9/13/2006
Msg: 122
Positive Things in Afghanastan- what Main Stream Media Is Not Reporting
Posted: 10/24/2007 6:52:43 PM
My son who is 19 years old is over in Afghanastan fighting for you and me!! Thank you to all who recognize the sacrifices that they chose in order for us to maintain our freedom...
I ask that you place all of our soldiers in your thoughts and prayers on a daily basis.
When you lay your head down tonight, regardless of your faith, ask your higher power to send our children back home the same way they left.

Thank you from a mother who only knows to well the cost of your freedom..........
Joined: 5/13/2006
Msg: 123
Positive Things in Afghanastan- what Main Stream Media Is Not Reporting
Posted: 10/24/2007 8:35:25 PM
Caughtcha : It is your son and you, that needs to be thanked by all of us enjoying our freedom paid for by their sacrifice. Be assured of my prayers and support.

The wives and Mothers of soldiers serving pay a particularly high price I know. My grand niece was born last Dec 24 while her Dad was serving in Afghanistan. It was a particularly lonly time for my niece, as that was right after Medussa and we had rather high casulaties.

We all needto remember the Moms, Dads, wives and siblings, and the high price they pay for their sacrifices as well.

Got to thinking tonight, the CBC wasnt the only ones "surprised" by the poll taken in Afghanistan showing huge support for our troops there. Bet you Stephane Dion choked on his cheerios this morning if he read the paper while eating breakfast.

All along, I have noticed that the opposition to our being there was very soft. In other words, most opposition was based on false information that we were losing, and their reservations to me, had a change of heart when I was able to show them what we have accomplished there.

Dion has made a terrible mistake I think. He based his get out of Afghanistan policy based on polls . Problem was, the polls asked for opinions from the general population who based there answers on misinformation. I really believe that when the facts about our accomplishments gets out, that opposition is going to waver.

This group set up by Harper is going to help in that regard a lot. The press will have to report on the findings and conclusions which will encourage debate. Most Canadians will agree with the mission when they find out all the accomplishments there.

Dion blew it big time. He should have had the courage to back the mission in spite of the polls, as he had supported our role in the south while a member of the cabinet. Nice to see a politician who didnt have the courage of his convictions suffer the consequances.

He might have scored over Ignatief by this cowardly policy on Afghanistan to win the leadership, but I believe it will lose him a possible Prime Ministership. Won a battle, lost the war in other wards.

Canada will stay the course there , I have no doubt at all.
Joined: 5/13/2006
Msg: 124
Positive Things in Afghanastan- what Main Stream Media Is Not Reporting
Posted: 10/25/2007 4:48:11 AM
Checked on USAID for Afghanistan this morning.

The States have built 650 schools , training through a special radio station for 65,000 teachers.

Afghanistan has one of the highest child mortality rates in the world. Under Taliban control the rate was 1 out of 5 children died before the age of 5.

The US has built 640 clinics, 3,000 health posts and supported 360 health facilities with drugs etc. Close to 3,000 kilometers of roads have been built.

All those people going on how its been 5 years , taking a long time? Looks to me like its a pretty fast pace, a whole country is being built. Russians sure didnt do this kind of work when they were there. Then again, the Russians were invaders, the States are allies of the Afghan people
 jetpowered unicycle
Joined: 9/29/2007
Msg: 125
Positive Things in Afghanastan- what Main Stream Media Is Not Reporting
Posted: 10/25/2007 5:47:20 AM
New reporting/2007/10/08/07/1008fa-fact-hersh
Huffington post .com jefferson-money/denied-in-full-federalb-69414.html
Joined: 8/13/2006
Msg: 126
Positive Things in Afghanastan- what Main Stream Media Is Not Reporting
Posted: 10/25/2007 8:11:25 AM
Our efforts may ultimately fail in Afghanistan. Nothing is guaranteed. But your comments tie into my post at the start of this page regarding the use of force.

Just what type of and how much force is appropriate when trying to "peace keep" a conflict? If you believe the genocide in Darfur will be solved by a lot of polite language, appeals to peace, and neutral behavior, you're kidding yourself. Sometimes, one must apply "some" force to back up strong words, or the side you're trying to influence will just laugh in your face and not take you seriously. Could there be "innocent" victims caught in the crossfire? Of course. A smart bullet or bomb has yet to be invented to "only" go after intended targets. But you can definitely minimize such occurrences.

The alternative is to do nothing and let the slaughter continue? I guess that's a moral question only you can answer.
Joined: 4/9/2005
Msg: 127
view profile
Positive Things in Afghanastan- what Main Stream Media Is Not Reporting
Posted: 10/25/2007 9:21:13 AM
Or one can frame the question better. There's more options. Force, no force, then there's gradations in between, and diplomacy. To frame something as an either-or argument leaves out many possibilities, and is an oversimplification, for there's more than just two choices for a given problem.
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