Plentyoffish dating forums are a place to meet singles and get dating advice or share dating experiences etc. Hopefully you will all have fun meeting singles and try out this online dating thing... Remember that we are the largest free online dating service, so you will never have to pay a dime to meet your soulmate.
Show ALL Forums  > Religion  >      Home login  
Joined: 4/26/2008
Msg: 104
Psychic Ability...Are U a Believer?Page 9 of 10    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10)
Most people who are highly psychic don't study it so they can read your mind better. They actually start to study so they can't read you. Well I am a believer because I am psychic. Have been all my life. From reading the posts there are a lot of things people don't understand about being psychic. I hope I will be able to clear somethings up for you.
First, if you want to investigate proof contact Atlantic University in Va. They will be able to provide you with all the proof that you need.
Another point is that no one who is psychic will entertain the discussion of having to prove their abilities to anyone. We are people, we don't do tricks or sit up or roll over.
Because so many people are cynical to us we have learned to keep our mouths shut. It is a shame really because we really could help people. But that is the way the world is and there is nothing much we can do about it.
The third thing is that yes, psychic can be passed down but it is not limited to certain genetic types. I has been proved that psychics have more frontal lobe activity than non psychics. Scientists are currently trying to determine whether psychic ability is where mankind is evolving too or are we loosing the abilities that were once our main survival instincts from when we were cave men.
The fourth thing. Remote Viewing was once use by the US Military in WWII. These people have to be highly trained. From what I have read they were also very successful. There are a number of psychics who are registered with different organizations. Getting registered isn't easy. You need a certain number of valid predictions from other parties. Then the other parties are investigated. Some of these people were approached by the government some 20 years ago. The psychics refused to work with the government. From what I understand the program has been abolished.
Fifth point. Getting paid. Psychic ability is just like any other ability. Please stop deifying it. Did God give us this ability? Yes God also gave me my brown eyes. God also blesses people with extraordinary abilities to play a piano, dance, or sing. But even though they have been blessed they still have to work and study very hard. So do psychics. 15 years of studying, reading, classes (and I mean college courses). Time, money, and hard work. If you want a person (psychic or not) to take their good time to help you, at least give them the respect of paying them for their services. Some psychics wont charge. That is up to them. But that doesn't mean that they are good. In fact the good ones are the professionals who have studied. And Yes they will charge you. Every one has the right to live. And they have the right to charge a reasonable rate so they can live. To think otherwise is just plain foolish.
The psychics who work with the police often do not charge the police. This is because of another reason. One that I wont go into now.
Most people who are highly psychic don't study it so they can read your mind better. They actually start to study so they can't read you. And they don't study to be a professional. How a psychic starts reading people is a whole other discussion that I wont go into. It is a thing that we don't think you will believe so we just don't talk about it to non-psychics.
I hope that this helps. Any other questions just ask I will try to help.
Joined: 1/4/2008
Msg: 105
Psychic Ability...Are U a Believer?
Posted: 5/3/2008 7:34:46 PM
First time on this topic ... very much believe in the ability ... when you can go to someone on the same day you make an appointment & you know you have never met, talked or even seen them before ... & they can tell you about your past years, present including what you have in your house & about others in your family that you aren't even aware of & then to find out that last one is true of what they say ... oh yes, very much a believer ... have had too much happen in my life to NOT believe ... but like everything else, you still have to be careful who you go to ... HgSS
Joined: 1/4/2008
Msg: 108
Psychic Ability...Are U a Believer?
Posted: 5/7/2008 3:21:30 PM
Thanks Enigma252 ... I think I would enjoy having a conversation with you sometime ... it would be interesting ... Hg
Joined: 10/29/2006
Msg: 112
Psychic Ability...Are U a Believer?
Posted: 5/9/2008 4:56:26 AM
I heard that the subconscious is extremely adept at sorting through information and coming to logical conclusions. That when the abstract and logical parts of the brain are working in unison efficiently enough and the subconscious is capable of communicating with the conscious efficiently enough, a person can notice things we normally couldn't notice.

Like Salty posted earlier, I heard the develop of language and other types of thinking have actually weakened certain brain functions that were incredibly sharp at the time of our birth. Babies have been observed to have very acute pattern recognition abilities.
Joined: 1/2/2008
Msg: 114
Psychic Ability...Are U a Believer?
Posted: 5/16/2008 7:53:31 AM
This book looks at John Edward and other medium's gifts under a microscope.
This is the story on the woman who won 2/3 of the lottery.

saying that it's been proven without providing links doesn't help open people's minds. demanding proof doesn't mean someone with proof is willing to provide it, but makes you look like a demanding and impatient person.

you are a spiritual being having a human experience, not a human being having a spiritual one. The sooner people realize this the better. Science has yet to open the door to this so until they do, they will be limited to the mundane physical world. Why argue with something so limited? Your soul is capable of experiencing so much more than what 'science' allows.

so prarie shaman, how long have you lived in/near the same city as me?
Joined: 3/15/2006
Msg: 117
Psychic Ability...Are U a Believer?
Posted: 6/17/2008 12:45:54 PM

What is your opinion on psychic ability?

It exists.

Have you ever had a psychic experience?


Do you think we all have it or not?


If you have, what happened?

I got used to it and it is now just a fact of the past and at times present.

Some people go to psychics for predictions on their love lives, what do you think of that?

Silliness, in my opinion.

Are you aware that the police use psychics on a regular basis but do not advertise it?

Very aware. It's about time.
Joined: 7/21/2005
Msg: 121
view profile
Psychic Ability...Are U a Believer?
Posted: 7/14/2008 10:07:22 AM
It is a common belief in my family, many of the women seem to have had some ability.
My Mom's first cousin is a well known psychic and has worked with police in Ca. many times. I've seen her being interviewed on TV in this regard, the first time was startling. I was channel surfing and stopped when I saw her, because she looks exactly like my great-grandmother. Then I began to listen to the interview and realized who she was. She and my Mom knew each other as children, but I'd never seen her, her family always lived in another state. It was sort of strange to recognise her like that.

Joined: 4/8/2008
Msg: 123
Psychic Ability...Are U a Believer?
Posted: 7/26/2008 10:50:42 AM
Yes... I truly believe in it, but few have developed their ability..., yet. I was going to just be sarcastically humourous, and say: "Of course I do, because I KNEW you were going to ask this question".... but, that would make me appear as a non-believer, and I truly believe that many of us will develop our talents even further, as time moves ahead. Everyone has their own right to agree, or disagree, as you know the little saying about opinions, don't you?
Joined: 1/26/2008
Msg: 130
Psychic Ability...Are U a Believer?
Posted: 8/2/2008 8:41:58 PM
Yes I believe and I love it!

What I don't believe is to try and convince non-believers its true or to try and convince believers it's false. We should respect others right to believe in what they want, the same as in religion.

A good part of this post is taken up by a few that want to argue on the subject and it got very boring. Just like a Christian vs Muslim vs athiest debate.

Great to see likeminded ppl who do believe.

I will go and see a pshycic and I don't mind paying for it either and I have been dogged for doing so but hey, I might spend $50 to feel better about things over the next 6 months and they spend $100 for one night at the pub to feel better and crap the next day. lol I feel the winner here but whatever works for each
Joined: 3/22/2007
Msg: 131
Psychic Ability...Are U a Believer?
Posted: 8/2/2008 9:32:51 PM
I grew up with a mother that was into that kind of thing,she was always reading her tarot cards(the devil has t i t s..)..I beleive it could be possible..for example..
When you know someone and really listen to them and pay attention,after a while you can predict what they are gonna say and or do,for me this the basic form of psychic can make a post on here and actually have an idea of what a certain poster is going to respond..if you read the forms and threads and get to know the posters after a while you know what they are gonna I think that everyone can have that basic ability.When a psychic really gets into learning about people and the very many different types of people,one can predict a love life in the near future,you are there asking for it,the psychic knows this and knows that there are very many people looking for love,so it is very easy to say,that in the near future you are gonna meet someone,that you are gonna feel is very right for you..if it gives someone some light and hope..then there is nothing wrong with that..i do believe that people do have certain abilities and capabilities and even tapping into the unknown senses.
Joined: 1/4/2008
Msg: 134
Psychic Ability...Are U a Believer?
Posted: 8/3/2008 7:31:12 PM
I know from experience ... if you make a phone call, block your number, give the person only your first name, you have never met nor know the person, you get in to see them within a couple of hours that same day ... then during the session they give you information about your past, present & future of things that have, are or will happen about self & family -- yes, I do believe ... there was no way of any kind that the person could have gotten any information about me or my family or my home from anyone else or the internet & yet gave me info that I was able to confirm & other info I had to seek out from family members to confirm as I did not know what he was talking about ... there were no tricks with this one ... just one -on-one information given ... sorry but personal experience -- yea, gives me more validation than anything else or anyone else who says it's phoney ...
Joined: 4/8/2008
Msg: 141
Psychic Ability...Are U a Believer?
Posted: 8/6/2008 4:03:58 PM
Wow!! Why is it that forums are suppose to be a place for people to "share their opinions" with others, and yet... the most of what I see on this & many other forums here, are people getting all defensive with each other, when someone has an opposing view? Hey! IT'S JUST A FORUM!! No one is saying that you are going to die, if you are proven wrong, and I don't think anyone is going to get any awards, for being right.

I will still stick with my original posting and say that: "I'm a believer" (add the MONKEES song here). But..., I will also go back to one of the Madfiddler's postings, where he talks about "shams". In my experience, about 85% of the people in the world who make a claim to having psychic abilities are "fakes". ...And yes Madfiddler, they are usually the ones "charging money" for their exhibitions & "teachings" (what a ridiculous concept, because you either have it, or don't have it... It can be developed, but not "taught").

Of those 15% that do have genuine abilities (all my OWN opinion folks, so keep your knickers in place) these people are like Enigma's post metioned: about 85% accurate. No one is right ALL the time, but if you are going to one off these "shams" and they ask/tell you: you will meet a dark haired man/woman; you will see a bird cross your path tonight; you will see a red car by your home; etc. ..OR... Do you like animals?; Are you married?; What is your occupation? etc... these are all pretty good signs that someone is either trying to "plant" an idea in your head (get you to observe something/look for something that you may very well see every day, but not pay any attention to) .. OR... they are asking questions that THEY WOULD ALREADY KNOW, if they were a true psychic. Hope this helps.

And... Hey! Let's relax a bit people.... because "I KNOW" someone out there will be having a bad night, if you don't.....
Joined: 10/11/2005
Msg: 145
Psychic Ability...Are U a Believer?
Posted: 8/8/2008 9:33:20 PM

Have you ever had a psychic experience?

Sure, I predicted someone would ask a question like that.
Joined: 7/19/2005
Msg: 148
view profile
Psychic Ability...Are U a Believer?
Posted: 8/9/2008 7:58:06 AM

I think this is a dead issue we're discussing.

Why? Because you're clearly in the minority on this particular thread?

until they open their minds and educate themselves on how to rationally explain their experiences using logic and evidence that we have already proven to be real.

See, when you hear of Medicine Men who have rocks following them as they walk, how does one rationally explain this? I would really like to know, really, and I am not being facetious or mocking with you.

Or when I'm in a strange city, and I meet up with a stranger who is also from elsewhere, in an elevator, who tells me to call home immediately as my son is critically ill, how does one explain this??? Please tell me. I would really like to know.

Or when I was told to move my car as the seemingly sturdy hundred year old elm tree would fall during the night, and it did. How did she know??? Tell me please.

Or when an unknown child approached me out of the blue and advised me not to worry because my Grandmother would make things ok? (all of my grandparents are dead)

How does one explain all of this rationally, using logic and evidence?? I would really like to know.

Cheers, Raven
Joined: 11/21/2007
Msg: 153
Psychic Ability...Are U a Believer?
Posted: 8/11/2008 3:20:03 PM
I beleive there are things out there that no one can explain or truly prove.
I beleive that some people are more tuned in to the world around them and can connect to other people or energies on a higher level.
I have had some experiences but none that are insane or out there.
And I am aware that the police use psychics on a regular basis.
Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 155
Psychic Ability...Are U a Believer?
Posted: 8/12/2008 9:01:15 AM

there's just not enough evidence to say 100% it's real or not

Perhaps not, but the onus is on the person making the claim of something's existence to prove it does exist, it isn't up to non believers to prove it doesn't exist.
Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 156
Psychic Ability...Are U a Believer?
Posted: 8/12/2008 9:07:32 AM
And I am aware that the police use psychics on a regular basis

Hmmm I never see this shown on the news, in many cases the "psychics" send unsolicited information to the police forces to "help them out". Then when the case is solved, tweak what they sent the police so it jibes with the facts.

For example, " hey, my message to the police said they should be looking near a lake or river for the body, and the body was found on Water Avenue !!! That proves I'm psychic".

If these psychics exist, it's a pity they can't contact and help the police BEFORE somebody is missing or murdered, that'd be a big help.
Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 158
Psychic Ability...Are U a Believer?
Posted: 8/15/2008 10:31:38 AM

was wondering if you remember or heard of a plane in chicago that crashed right when they took off,years ago? some guy had a dream that a plane had just left the runway ,flipped in mid-air and crashed,turning into a huge fireball.he contacted the faa,various airports and all kinds of authority figures.this was after he had the exact same dream 12(?) nights in a row,of course. people thought he was crazy or setting up a terroristic situation. the authorities watched him for a short while until the plane actually crashed just as he had predicted.

Hmmmm and the media didn't publish any of this before the crash? The guy didn't make a point of telling the local papers/radio etc about it? I'm sure they would have run something ( maybe a mocking bit about a kook ay tthe very least?) .

Noooo as usual, the "facts" come out after the incident, and is pointed at as proof of psychic ability.

I'm psychic too btw. I see a murder/suicide taking place sometime in the spring. My abilities are cloudy tho, so I can't say which ( or when) in the spring, or whether it's a married couple or lovers. I do know that it happens near a river ( not sure what constitutes "near" though, and it may be a street named River, or possibly their or a neighbor's name; or possibly in a place named Riverton).
Joined: 1/6/2012
Msg: 159
Psychic Ability...Are U a Believer?
Posted: 2/16/2012 3:20:21 PM
IM experience, many women believe they have some sort of paranormal voodoo like ability

Until someone uses their ability to win the lotto, play the market and make a few million bucks, or grow back a missing leg, I remain a skeptic.
Joined: 1/12/2012
Msg: 160
Psychic Ability...Are U a Believer?
Posted: 2/26/2012 3:32:15 PM
Yeah I am. Only thing is I can't control when I'm going to know something. When I do know something I trust it though. It has saved my life more than once.
Joined: 2/24/2012
Msg: 161
Psychic Ability...Are U a Believer?
Posted: 5/13/2012 7:26:35 PM
The really cool thing is the universe continues to work as it will whether you believe it or not. So those of us who believe it is possible to, sometimes, tap into the universal energy can continue to do that whether anyone else believes it or not.

In a world where the more tools and opportunities one has, the more likely they are to be successful, the non-believers are welcome to their limited 5 senses. I'm happy to use my 7 senses.

Peace y'all.
Joined: 2/24/2012
Msg: 162
Psychic Ability...Are U a Believer?
Posted: 6/17/2012 4:12:23 PM

What are the other 2 senses?

Google (or Bing) can be your friend. There are several ‘scientifically acknowledged’ senses beyond the commonly known 5. I accept that 2 additional senses manifest in my life.

So those of us who believe it is possible to, sometimes, tap into the universal energy can continue to do that whether anyone else believes it or not.
... Peace y'all.

There is a million dollar prize for anyone that can prove a psychic ability but no one on Earth has been able to get positive results yet.

Let me be more explicit - I'm not here to argue with nonbelievers. Go about your merry way in peace.
Joined: 2/24/2012
Msg: 163
Psychic Ability...Are U a Believer?
Posted: 6/18/2012 9:44:41 PM

A broadly acceptable definition of a sense would be "A system that consists of a group of sensory cell types that responds to a specific physical phenomenon, and that corresponds to a particular group of regions within the brain where the signals are received and interpreted." Disputes about the number of senses typically arise around the classification of the various cell types and their mapping to regions of the brain.

One reason this definition is so difficult is because the evolving science of neuroplasticity keeps redefining brain mapping. Even so,

One commonly recognized categorisation for human senses is as follows: chemoreception; photoreception; mechanoreception; and thermoception. This categorisation has been criticized as too restrictive, however, as it does not include categories for accepted senses such as the sense of time and sense of pain.

Note categories that do not correspond to the traditional 5 senses?

Humans are considered to have at least five additional senses that include: nociception (pain); equilibrioception (balance); proprioception and kinaesthesia (joint motion and acceleration); sense of time; thermoception (temperature differences); and possibly an additional weak magnetoception (direction). Clinical Neurophysiology, Volume 111, Issue 11, Pages 1934–1935, A . Voustianiouk

Yah, SmilingSalmon, quit engaging in mere word play to make up senses that are not acknowledged by science. Coma White says so.
Of course Clinical Neurophysiology (a journal for psychic whackos if I’ve ever heard of one) sort of disagrees with our piano friend.
Joined: 2/24/2012
Msg: 164
Psychic Ability...Are U a Believer?
Posted: 6/18/2012 11:36:33 PM

Also, the burden of proof falls upon the people claiming that souls exist.

Why? Because you said so?

No one has to prove they don't exist.

Again. Why?

The majority of people believing the world was flat didn't mean the world was flat.

The world was truly flat until it was proven to not be flat.
Every culture throughout human history has believed in an animating force (e.g. soul). It is true until proven otherwise. It has never been proven there is no animating force. The burden of proof is actually on the non-believers.
Joined: 2/24/2012
Msg: 165
Psychic Ability...Are U a Believer?
Posted: 6/19/2012 10:17:20 PM
Who has the burden of proof?

Because the burden of proof falls upon the person making the claim, not the person doubting the claim. You can't be called upon to prove a negative.

the burden of proof is an integral part of reasonable public discourse. I won't go into the basics of logic and debate within the public arena because I assume most people know them.

Apparently not.

As I already demonstrated, the person making the claim carries the burden of proof. A person is innocent until proven guilty, not the other way around. If you charge a person with murder, then you have to prove that the person did the crime. You don't sit back and sip lemonade while the person has to prove they are innocent. If I want to bring up a philosophical matter, it's the same thing. I can make the claim that unicorns exist. The burden of proof is upon to me back up my claim.

Actually, you’re only partially correct. My point a few posts back may have been too subtle for you to grasp. I’ll preface this by stating I know we’re not in an American court of law but since you are trying to lay the ground rules let’s at least get the facts correct. In American jurisprudence the burden of proof is on the challenger, i.e. the person going against the status quo. This is slightly different than the person “making the claim” because in this case both sides are making claims.

But, if you want to use the “philosophic burden of proof” is the person making the claim, you still have the burden of proof backward.

In this case, who is the challenger (so who has the BoP)? I’ll leave room that there may be a single, isolated, tribe or culture here and there around the world whose majority does not believe in a ‘spirit’, or ‘soul’, or ‘animating spirit’, or ‘God’, or ‘reincarnation’, or ‘knowing’, or ‘gods’, etc. – you know, all those things the alleged ‘scientific’ folks (more on that later) claim is total ignorance. But,the status quo is nearly universal, for thousands of years, in every culture, every religion, every nation, every land, has a belief in the existence of/the reality of what the minority non-believers call non-provable. Therefore, the burden of proof is actually on you, the non-believer, the challenger to the status quo.

The ‘defense’ (i.e. the believers) can sit back and sip their lemonade unless/until you meet your burden of proof that there is no such thing as psychic ability. That you must prove a negative isn’t the defense’s problem.

Alternately, who is making the claim (so who has the BoP)? Let’s go back to OP. There are no claims in the original post; there are a series of questions. Only the last question could be interpreted as an implied statement formed as a question. Therefore, any claims are made by the people either stating they believe, or those stating they do not believe. So long as stated in the form ‘this is what I believe’, then there isn’t a challenge so there really isn’t anything to prove or defend. It is when a “claim” takes the form of a judgment, criticism, or attack that the “claim” becomes a challenge and the BoP is on the person making the judgment, criticism, or attack to ‘prove’ they’re right or the other is wrong. So, again, the BoP is on the poster(s) claiming the believers are ignorant for believing as they do.

The majority of people believing the world was flat didn't mean the world was flat.

It wasn’t offered to say that the world was flat, in fact. It was offered to demonstrate how the burden of proof works and who had it.
Define your terms

There is no such thing as "psychic ability." You can't know the future

A common problem on threads like this is people do not define their terms so it’s nearly impossible to actually engage in a discussion because slippery language prevents it.

Psychic ability is not synonymous with fortune telling, or prophesizing. In some cases, psychic abilities are used to (allegedly) tell the future. But notice that structure – psychic abilities = means, fortune-
telling = ends.
Psychic ability is (from Merriam-webster):

2: lying outside the sphere of physical science or knowledge : immaterial, moral, or spiritual in origin or force
(note the use of “or”, not “and”)
In other words, it is possible to be psychic that is not necessarily attributed to little green men, or gods, or ghosts, or fairies. Psychic ability may be only outside the ability of (current) physical science or knowledge to explain. There are other definitions that imply unicorns and gods at work, but I have provided at least one definition that does not require that.

Further, I’ve provided examples from authoritative scientific sources of senses or sensory perception that is beyond the common 5 human senses. In other words, scientifically accepted ‘extra-sensory’ (“residing beyond or outside the ordinary senses” Merriam-webster) perception (aka psychic ability).

What are valid forms of proof?

I'm here to discuss the topic. I can't do that because you don't understand the fundamentals of reasonable discourse. You didn't address anything I said, you just rambled on about some sort of Creator and me being a musician which has nothing to do with the topic.

I haven't seen one shred of evidence pointing to the idea that we have souls.

It's possible that everything has a soul. I would like to think that, but we have never seen any proof of it.

a) Then you totally missed the points SS was making, in other words, the forms of proof she was offering. They may not have looked like proofs to you because this is not a court of law, it is a discussion. She did not cite statistics, or claim levels of certainty, or cite so-called ‘experts’. She offered examples of “extra-sensory” perception, i.e. a/one form of psychic ability, that could be recognized in every day life. SS’s mention of the ineffable ability that sets a great musician apart from the merely technically good musician was an example of evidence of a soul that you totally failed to comprehend (thereby proving her point).

b) You are the one who doesn’t address anything anyone says, except to say they’re engaging in word-play (a specious argument if I’ve ever heard one), or don’t know what they’re talking about (i.e. implying they’re idiots or ignorant).

What proofs have you offered to meet your burden of proof?
1) That you don’t believe what other say – which is mere “I say”/”you say”. Basic fairness would say that your beliefs, without more hold no more validity than anyone elses; including the person you’re claiming is an idiot.

2) That no one has claimed the million dollar prize. This argument says more about you than about anyone claiming psychic ability. It says that you are, and believe everyone else is, motivated by money above all else. Sort of like the old joke about ‘guy asks woman to sleep with him for $1Million. She says yes. He asks if she’ll sleep with him for $1. She says no, what kind of girl do you think I am? He replies, I know what kind of girl you are, now we’re just arguing about the price.’ I will offer there are people who wouldn’t sleep with him for $1M, because there are things they value more than money. Just a couple reasons are they don’t want to play into the Randi circus, and they don’t feel they have the need to “prove” themselves or their ‘abilities’ to anyone. Given your value system I’m sure you don’t believe that but that’s not my problem. This, also, is not an opening to debate the whole Randi vs Sylvia Browne or Uri Geller circus.

There is no such thing as "psychic ability." You can't know the future. You can make guesses, but there is no such thing as knowing the future and always being right.
More of that slippery language. I don’t recall ever reading anyone claiming 100% accuracy in any form of psychic ability, including foretelling the future. 100% accuracy is not the standard in a court of law, nor the vast majority of scientific analysis. I believe the standard is usually expressed in terms such as “statistically significant”, or “more probable than not”, or “beyond reasonable doubt”. I hope you’re not truly claiming that less than 100% accuracy means not valid. I’d hate to have to present examples of things commonly accepted as valid even though not 100% accurate or 100% successful such as most vaccines and most contraceptives.

I'm open minded that it may be possible to develop some sort of "psychic ability" but it's good to test people so that frauds aren't allowed to scam the public.

Um, no that isn’t all that you’ve claimed. If that were your sole motivation, then there would be no reason to test (or for someone to prove) psychic ability of someone who is not using their psychic ability (extra-sensory perception) in the public sphere.

Finally, just for fun – if I understand correctly (and I may not) the 3 greatest modern era physicists (Einstein, Feynman, and Hawking) say that time is not linear, it is parallel or simultaneous. If that is true, then is it such a big leap of faith to accept there are people with extra-sensory (as in heightened/above the norm) perception who are able to periodically perceive ‘future’ time in the ‘present’(because the future is happening ‘now’ in parallel)?
Show ALL Forums  > Religion  >