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 mimosa
Joined: 4/5/2005
Msg: 265
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Players! What is it like to play? C'mon be honest!Page 5 of 21    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21)
Good answer........You can't spot them because they don't show their game either.
Where would the fun be then.

I'm not implying I am a game player...... but it's fun sometimes to play with the player.
I do think you have the female version......she's not after money as some have implied. She's after the game itself.

Something like playing chess. A dance of wills.
 mimosa
Joined: 4/5/2005
Msg: 267
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Players! What is it like to play? C'mon be honest!
Posted: 12/3/2007 8:42:17 AM
^^^^ no denials here. Like the guy said I'm too old for this sh*t.
Sorry couldn't resist.

Hmmm.... M church you have a point there.
 OutMind
Joined: 2/13/2007
Msg: 268
Players! What is it like to play? C'mon be honest!
Posted: 12/3/2007 8:47:56 AM

Dude, don't tell me you rely on condoms. There are so many STD's that can be passed by skin contact alone.


Hahaha. Good come back. But when you're having multiple partners, some protection is better than no protection.
 svj
Joined: 9/15/2007
Msg: 269
Players! What is it like to play? C'mon be honest!
Posted: 12/3/2007 9:52:11 AM
For the people that don't quite understand the mentality of those that are successful with women:

I've noticed that most people who have trouble attracting a potential love interest... nearly all regard him/her as an opponent. A hurdle that has to be overcome on the way to the objective that they want. (whether that's a relationship, sex, whatever)

Ever been on a first date, and he constantly talked about sex, or groped you up against your will because you were forward enough to say "hello"?
Ever been on a first date, and she gives you the dreaded "job interview"? (ie. qualifying you as "marriage material")
This is ridiculousy common. In both cases it's the same. They're too busy keeping his eye on their "prizes". Right then and there, those people don't give a damn about you. If you "qualify", then they might consider actually getting to know you.

I don't think like that. While I'm not nearly as successful with women as Church seems to be... (I only date once, maybe twice a week. And I rarely let it get as far as sex anymore.) 9 times out of 10, a new girl I meet for the first time wants to see me again.

Why? Because I don't think of her as an opponent.
I'm virutally certain Church doesn't think of women like that, either.

Personally, I think of her as a "teammate".

Have you ever caught a fly ball?
Have you ever been up to bat?
Have you ever thrown a ball?
Taken a shot?

What are you thinking about when you're doing those things?
Probably nothing. You're running on instinct. You're just out there in the sun... all the problems and concerns of your everyday life are forgotten about. It's just you, the ball, and your teammates. Pushing yourself to your limits together was fun and exhilirating... wasn't it?

You don't hold back in the middle of a game. When you're throwing or catching the ball (in the middle of the game), you're not thinking about next week's game. (sex, rel'n/marriage) If you are, you're distracted. If you're not concentrating on the right here, right now, with every fiber of your being... you're going to be waaay off target. That ball is going to slip through your fingers. And if you can't play ball worth a damn... who's going to want to be on your team?

I don't know what the "don't give a damn about them, I just wanna f*ck" guy thinks about.
If you want to know about that mentality, ask the guys yelling "all women only want *ssholes and jerks"!

I care about my teammates. I want them to have as much fun out there as I'm having.

But at some point in the future, we're probably not be playing for the same team. In fact, odds are pretty good we won't be. Someone's going to leave. Someone's going to get traded. Eventually, at some point in the future, odds are we're likely going to be opponents.

It's not like we're going to hate each other if/when that happens. I realize that people eventually go their separate ways. I give them a hug when I/they get the call, and I genuinely wish them all the best. 90%+ of relationships end up not working out, you may not like it, but that's real life. People go their separate ways eventually. Personally, I accept it. That's just the way life is.

But that's the future. And for the right here, right now... we're in this thing together.
Giving it everything we've got.
It's just not fun to play ball with someone that's always distracted... thinking about something else... not losing themselves in the moment... not having fun.

I care about my teammates. I want them to lose themselves in the moment, just like I do.
I want them to have as much fun out there as I'm having. Even if they're in town for only a week or two.

And if you're always in the moment... If you're always having fun... odds are you're going to be playing some pretty good ball.

If that doesn't make any sense to you... don't worry about it.
I'm more typing this for me than for you.
Writing helps me organize my thoughts.
 gmm765
Joined: 11/24/2007
Msg: 270
Players! What is it like to play? C'mon be honest!
Posted: 12/3/2007 8:02:17 PM
I think you can learn to spot the player, just like you can learn to become a player.

Look for a persona, an image--that is generally someone who believes that appearance is more important than the real thing. Does the guy have photos with other women draped about him? Players do that to create an image of high status. Are you shallow and attracted to status,fame and money, then you're very vulnerable to the players because they will manufactor that image to flip you on your back.

And ask yourself, are you attracted to a guy honestly or to the image of some guy? Are you interested in getting to know him , or do you like the mystery of not knowing much about him--so that you can manufacture that wonderful fantasy about him? Players create the interpersonal distance so you will create a fantasy in your head ,and once you're in fantasy mode--the panties come right off. He's the perfect man....and you're ready to be pounderized.

Another thing is don't put much meaning into body langauge. Body language is not a language. Players believe it is a language and that they are experts at conveying information with that language. Women believe in body langauge and believe that they are experts at interpreting that language. Both groups have watched too many Hollywood movies. Most of what we communicate is verbal. Emotional intelligence is a garbage , and falsified theory (see my post on that). All it takes to falsify "Body language" beliefs is critical thinking ability. I've done it many times while sparing with players.


I've heard women say that they can know just about everything about a guy by the way he walks. In other words, by his body langauge. What crap. When I tryed out a walk-described by a renowned player--a walk which makes you "appear to be" a motorcycle hoodlum, guess what I got --attraction in a grocery store (hot chick too). To do that walk--you get instructed in just the way a Hollywood director would instruct an actor to appear to be motorcyle hoodlum. So that women who had attraction, had no real attraction to me. She's attracted to an image ,an image that Hollywood has manufactored. The chick has watched too many hollywood movies, and believes you can learn from life by watching those movies. She has poor critical thinking abilites/skills. The reality of screwing some hell angles (85% of whom have felony records--according to a cop friend) is quite a bit different than the reality presented by some Hollywood movie.

The rise of the players? A culture drenched in false Hollywood images.
 OutMind
Joined: 2/13/2007
Msg: 271
Players! What is it like to play? C'mon be honest!
Posted: 12/3/2007 8:15:24 PM

The chick has watched too many hollywood movies, and believes you can learn from life by watching those movies.


Actually, it was the other way around. Hollywood learned from what was going on in real life, just gave it steroids. Most of what women are attracted to have not change in the last 10 thousand years. They only have become updated. I believe the ultimate aphrodisiac. The one that beats money, power, good looks, but is associated with it is competitiveness. Women go ga ga for that.
(okay hit me with a good argument and I mean here dudes and dudettes. Hehehehe)
 gmm765
Joined: 11/24/2007
Msg: 273
Players! What is it like to play? C'mon be honest!
Posted: 12/3/2007 8:37:42 PM
Those images are being manufactored by directors in Hollywood. You believe that Hollwood portrays real life--I don't. I don't at all. Those people, who control hollywood, are crafting the culture--that is the "habits and beliefs" of a people. Hollywood has an agenda. You have to look crosscultural to see it. People in different cultures have different beliefs and habits.

(Most) women are attracted to competitivness and that's prefered over money, power, good looks? I know that statement can be falsified empirically. But who has the time or the inclination to do so? I don't.
 rspadez
Joined: 10/28/2006
Msg: 274
Players! What is it like to play? C'mon be honest!
Posted: 12/3/2007 8:42:25 PM
dont blame the player, hate the game, its all a game
 OutMind
Joined: 2/13/2007
Msg: 275
Players! What is it like to play? C'mon be honest!
Posted: 12/3/2007 8:52:42 PM

Those images are being manufactored by directors in Hollywood. You believe that Hollwood portrays real life--I don't. I don't at all. Those people, who control hollywood, are crafting the culture--that is the "habits and beliefs" of a people. Hollywood has an agenda. You have to look crosscultural to see it. People in different cultures have different beliefs and habits.

(Most) women are attracted to competitivness and that's prefered over money, power, good looks? I know that statement can be falsified empirically. But who has the time or the inclination to do so? I don't.


Hollywood is all about money. The days of the directors that shot from their gut and did their thing are far in between. The guy how did Gladiator, went from the gut. But most of Hollywood depends on poles, research and tons of sh¡t to get the pulse of the culture. Then they off course put it on steroids. That is why the are called the mirror makers. It feeds back and forth.

Now, I don't know if you agree with the second statement, but I've seen a hell of a lot of women cheat on their wealthy husbands with guys with no money. So tell me about that?

Hehehe.
 OutMind
Joined: 2/13/2007
Msg: 276
Players! What is it like to play? C'mon be honest!
Posted: 12/3/2007 9:03:38 PM
If she starts sliding her tongue down your throat while you're dancing, she's either very attracted, drunk or placing an alien larva in your digestive tract


Dude, this is funny. However, it has been my experience. And I am not like you, experienced. When it evolved to that in the dance floor, club however. THAT WAS IT. No more. Tell me about that. When I held back, played with her a little then pulled back. Denied her. Well, she came home with me. You are the expert. Explain that. You tell me?
 gmm765
Joined: 11/24/2007
Msg: 277
Players! What is it like to play? C'mon be honest!
Posted: 12/3/2007 9:16:25 PM
Ok so women cheat on their wealthy husbands with bad boys who have no income.

The women are bored, emotion seeking, soap opera hungry crap females and they have no consequences for their behavior. Often times they can take the poor guy to the cleaners in divorce court. Does that explain it? Of course. When women leave a marriage because they are bored, they should leave with the ****ing clothes on their backs. Kick these ****es to the curb. You'll see them do a 180 degree turn. They can live in the streets.

In China, that's what happens. And the women are not hot for bad boys. The chinese men do not put up with anywhere near the crap that we do with women. The consquences for crappy behavior are sharp and decisive there: she is on the streets.
 OutMind
Joined: 2/13/2007
Msg: 278
Players! What is it like to play? C'mon be honest!
Posted: 12/3/2007 9:27:30 PM
Anger, Anger.

Dude. Read this book about evolutionary psychology. It will make more sense out of the senselessless. It's called "Why beutiful people have more daughters".

Trust me there dude.
 southernlass
Joined: 5/2/2006
Msg: 279
Players! What is it like to play? C'mon be honest!
Posted: 12/3/2007 9:37:40 PM
Svj said:


Ever been on a first date, and she gives you the dreaded "job interview"? (ie. qualifying you as "marriage material")
This is ridiculousy common. In both cases it's the same. They're too busy keeping his eye on their "prizes". Right then and there, those people don't give a damn about you. If you "qualify", then they might consider actually getting to know you.

I don't think like that.


Here's why I don't think you think like that, Svj, and here's why I think that could potentially change in the future, though I'm sure you will probably doubt what I say now.

You're young. You're only twenty nine years old. At twenty nine, you're not yet middle aged and getting closer to the end of life versus the beginning. You're not yet experiencing erectile dysfunction and the need for viagra (which sometimes works and sometimes doesn't, so I'm told). You haven't had children yet and probably aren't even worried about it. You're not concerned about "settling down." You're not looking at what you have contributed to this life you've led. You're not looking back on things in order to see how it all came out in the wash and what it all meant.

Yet.

I say "yet" because it's quite possible that one day you'll be an older man and everything won't be as easy as it used to be. And you'll begin to want someone to carry on your name (possibly?). You may begin to care about who is "marriage material" and who might be the kind of woman that would make a good wife and mother. Those things will begin to matter as you age, Svj. They don't make much of a difference now in the scheme of things but aging does strange things to our values and what becomes important and meaningful in our lives.

I would say the same thing to M. Church, except that M. Church is forty six years old and apparently what I'm mentioning isn't happening to him. Yet. Amazingly, some people wait a really long time before they discover true meaning in their lives and find the purpose of why they are here on this planet to begin with. Then there are the unfortunate people that never discover it and when they're sixty plus and find it a lot more difficult to attract anyone and their equipment and parts don't function so well anymore, and suddenly they find themselves unable to play like they used to, and the desire to play is actually gone... and maybe they chose never to settle down so they don't have kids or grandkids and it's just them, alone. Well, for some people it's too late then.

We women call this our "biological clocks." I'm not sure when the clock starts ticking for men but I think a lot of men start listening to it a lot too late and by the time they hear it, they can't go back and change things anymore.

This isn't an attempt to lecture anyone on values or sway anyone on anything, it's really more of an observation from my own experience. I think your mindset of not seeing someone as what you refer to as an opponent, or someone to fill some specific purpose in your life is purely because of your age. Right now you're interested in fun and good times and living in the moment. I think you should enjoy this time in your life a great deal because it won't be that way forever and things will change; at least this is what I've learned from watching people age and talking to them at length. Those that discover what really matters in life and bring that about are content when it's their time to go and those who missed the boat, well, there they are, as they are.
 OutMind
Joined: 2/13/2007
Msg: 281
Players! What is it like to play? C'mon be honest!
Posted: 12/3/2007 9:50:08 PM

This isn't an attempt to lecture anyone on values or sway anyone on anything, it's really more of an observation from my own experience.


Damn. What an awesome expose on your experience. Just awesome, girl. Will you marry me right now. Hehehehe.
 OutMind
Joined: 2/13/2007
Msg: 283
Players! What is it like to play? C'mon be honest!
Posted: 12/3/2007 10:14:25 PM

Get a clue man! Move your trailer away from the ditch, and stop hating all women in the world just because the ones you have come in contact with have rejected you. You may think it's because you have a small back account and a no where job, but it's really just your mentality


dude. Did you misplaced something. What are you talking about and to whom? If you do not where this thread has been don't post. If you do. Research. Okay dude.
 svj
Joined: 9/15/2007
Msg: 284
Players! What is it like to play? C'mon be honest!
Posted: 12/4/2007 12:14:32 AM
Southernlass:
You're young.
My first instinct is to tune out your opinion right then and there. I actually stopped reading your post, and read everyone else's instead. I was generally impressed with the amount of rational thought that is going on in this thread from the people that genuinely want to understand a perspective different from theirs. These threads are normally hate-fests and pity-parties.

Based on that, I came back and read it. After I had read everyone else's first. I still found it condescending. (Step into my shoes, read it as if you were me. You've dismissed my viewpoint based solely on my age.)

The "youth" thing is crap and we both know it. We both know I simply said something that you really disagreed with, and "Youth" was the easiest way you could dismiss my opinion.

With that being said, I also sense that you were posting out of a genuine interest and you're honestly trying to help me understand your different point of view. First a parent, and then as someone who sees merit in the "job interview" approach to dating. And that I respect and appreciate. And that's why I am responding to your post. Well, OK. That and a small case of insomnia. LOL

Being able to dissociate one's self from the situation is a vital skill in looking at something objectively. So let me ask you a few questions.... that may help you to dissociate, step back, and look at things in a more objective context.

Now that you've been married (or LTR), and had kids... are you any closer to finding out the meaning of life now than you were when you were single without kids?

Do you believe there is only one way to have a "meaningful life"?

Say if you decided to pursue a career you truly loved and enjoyed... or did something else, like building schools in Africa, or climbing Mt. Everest... don't you think you would, at this point in your life, also be able to look back and have found just as much meaning in those lives as well?

What really brought out the "Wow... I think I love him!" feeling in you? (If you've never felt that, then you've never been in love... and your entire argument is flawed, so I'm assuming you've been in love at least once.)

Not your first answer, either. Not the bullsh*t "intellectual" answers we all usually give on the boards. Look down at your body. Now. Think back to what that love felt like. As you think back, the feeling will build up somewhere in your body... I know you can feel it, if you've been in love before, it's there. Just think back. Was it in your chest? Your stomach? Your throat? Your head?

OK. Now let me ask you... what was more important to you in making that love? Was it his job? Was it his ability to provide? Was it what your friends and family thought of him? No. Obviously not. At least, not if it was true love. Was it the way the two of you interacted with each other? The way he made you feel when he was around? The feeling you got when you thought of him, even when he wasn't around? That feeling you remembered just now?

Now let me ask you... Do you think the best way to find that true love (or a good husband and father, for that matter) is to sit a guy down and go through a list of "interview" questions like "What is your job? Do you own your own house? How often do you work out? What is your relationship with your mother like? You don't watch NFL all Sunday, do you?"

Or do you think the best way is to find the person that makes you feel that feeling that you remember... deep inside? The feeling that you got when you looked into each other's eyes... the feeling you had when you laughed and felt the joy and exhileration of just being alive together? When you forgot about all that superficial stuff, and just lived in the moment together?

There came a time for you, where you wanted to settle down, get married, and have kids. That time may come for me. Don't you think a guy that you're crazy about, and is crazy for you would be a lot better for you, and a lot better father for your kids than a guy that simply fills in the boxes on a checklist?

Now remember, as a general rule, a guy has to pursue, if he wants to meet the woman of his dreams. Do you not think it's not a good idea for a man to learn how to pursue properly?

If anyone else wants to tackle these questions as well, feel free.
Keep in mind, though... I respect those who disagree with respect.
And I will spank the (emotional) toddlers here who fill their answers with hate.
 southernlass
Joined: 5/2/2006
Msg: 285
Players! What is it like to play? C'mon be honest!
Posted: 12/4/2007 2:28:14 AM
(I apologize for the length of this but these questions were rather deep).

Svj says:


Based on that, I came back and read it. After I had read everyone else's first. I still found it condescending. (Step into my shoes, read it as if you were me. You've dismissed my viewpoint based solely on my age.)


Honestly, I didn't dismiss your viewpoint. Not at all. I carefully thought about it at length and couldn't quite put my finger on what was niggling at me that I wasn't getting. Then it was like a light bulb coming on and the thought came that "Ohhhhh, okay. I see. He's not there yet, (where I am, pretty much). He doesn't see because he's not at the same place I am yet." And that's really the truth of what I thought.


The "youth" thing is crap and we both know it. We both know I simply said something that you really disagreed with, and "Youth" was the easiest way you could dismiss my opinion.


I sincerely wouldn't disrespect your opinion by blowing it off due to your age. I'm really pragmatic and blunt, Svj. I don't think you're immature at all, quite the opposite. You appear to be someone who has a lot on the ball, who is intelligent and very mature, but the fact is that age and life experience can't help but play a big role in our perceptions on various things.


With that being said, I also sense that you were posting out of a genuine interest and you're honestly trying to help me understand your different point of view. First a parent, and then as someone who sees merit in the "job interview" approach to dating. And that I respect and appreciate. And that's why I am responding to your post. Well, OK. That and a small case of insomnia. LOL


Heh. Well, we've got the same problem then because I'm awake too; however after studying for the last several hours for finals, I'm a little wound up. Anyway, I appreciate your taking a second look at my post and I do apologize that you initially and maybe even still do see it as coming across in a condescending way. I don't mean it to. And I hope I don't come across like that now. Anyway, onto your questions...


Now that you've been married (or LTR), and had kids... are you any closer to finding out the meaning of life now than you were when you were single without kids?


I almost dread writing out these answers because you're tapping into my passionate side and I'm not really good at camouflaging my emotions ;-)

The answer to this is that yes, I've been married and yes, I've been divorced. Unfortunately, even though I was in love, he was apparently not; at least not what I would consider love. He probably felt infatuation he confused with love; but anyway, I've found much meaning of life through learning and maturing enough to soak in everything I could about how to have a successful marriage/love relationship, how to be a good and loyal lover to my partner, and how to be a real, loving friend to my partner and my friends. I do believe that great joy and serenity can come about through a successful partnership/romantic relationship, but I don't think it's at all easy to achieve such a feat. I think it's an ongoing daily process in humility and compromise, and being willing to be open to and forgiving of the other person and their needs, states of being, etc. Being married in the past taught me what not to do, though I still have a lot to learn to be a success at marriage/a ltr in the future.

As for kids, if you could only know what this is like. You've probably heard it said before, but having a child of your own is the closest one comes to the greatest love of their life. It really is and don't let anyone tell you any different. I had this spouted off to me way back when and I never got it. I didn't get it until I looked into my daughter's eyes and continue to look into them day after day. It is the deepest, most profound, most life altering thing in my life, and I fell in love with her from the moment I laid eyes on her. This kind of love is truly life-changing and differs completely from romantic love. You see yourself within this small being, actually looking out from within their eyes. And you get a chance to watch it all come out different for them, meaning everything you wish might have been for you. You make a huge, significant difference for them as you guide and teach, and all the while you feel this love so overwhelming that it's absolutely terrifying at times. lol. I could go on and on about this so I better stop but I think you get the picture. Yeah, I've found the meaning of life through my little girl and it's awesome! I hope you don't miss this, Svj.


Do you believe there is only one way to have a "meaningful life"?


Oh no. Absolutely not. Each person must discover what is most meaningful and deep to them. And that can differ person to person; yet many find that love, specifically the love of our families, our true, real friends, partners, children, and the memories and time spent nurturing and sharing with these people are the most meaningful, notable, life experiences of all.


Say if you decided to pursue a career you truly loved and enjoyed... or did something else, like building schools in Africa, or climbing Mt. Everest... don't you think you would, at this point in your life, also be able to look back and have found just as much meaning in those lives as well?


Again, absolutely. I'm doing that right now. I'm pursuing my dream and am very close to making it come true. The meaning is in the experience of going for it, not just in the reaching of the goal. And I'm sure I'll find even more meaning through the daily experience of working in my career in capacities I'm currently unaware of. I definitely believe that work you feel true, real passion for is one of the most meaningful life experiences one can have.


What really brought out the "Wow... I think I love him!" feeling in you? (If you've never felt that, then you've never been in love... and your entire argument is flawed, so I'm assuming you've been in love at least once.)


I felt that fairly quickly, through a series of several emails within a week. Some might say it was infatuation but I sensed honest concern and caring for what I was going through at the time. I sensed someone who was unique, who stood out in the crowd in certain ways. And then there was just this incredible draw toward him and as time has gone by, I discover more and more that he fits in ways I never would have imagined in the beginning, or even thought to ask about. And these are ways that are very important for me as I'm coming to know myself more and more. These are ways that I cannot compromise on and really must have in my life in order to be who I'm meant to be.


Now let me ask you... Do you think the best way to find that true love (or a good husband and father, for that matter) is to sit a guy down and go through a list of "interview" questions like "What is your job? Do you own your own house? How often do you work out? What is your relationship with your mother like? You don't watch NFL all Sunday, do you?"


I think this is a place you start, through email, on the telephone, over coffee, over foot and back rubs, and activities both enjoy. I think you ask and ask and learn the person. I think this is a very good way to see who this is and how they'll fit into your life, your goals, your dreams, etc. In the long run though, I trusted something far greater than myself, whom I choose to call God, to lead me to the person he wants me to marry. I believe He has.


Or do you think the best way is to find the person that makes you feel that feeling that you remember... deep inside? The feeling that you got when you looked into each other's eyes... the feeling you had when you laughed and felt the joy and exhileration of just being alive together? When you forgot about all that superficial stuff, and just lived in the moment together?


Actually, for me this time it's been about a lot more than feelings. I find feelings to be very transient and changeable. I can't always put a lot of trust in my feelings and definitely have learned not to base my relationship on them. There are times when I could cheerfully murder my partner and think that I utterly hate him. So I can't depend on feelings, or on lust, or on the way it is when we make love. This is about something more and it's hard to define. I guess the best way to put it is I have found someone who is loyal. I have found someone who understands fidelity, who loves the whole package -- the good with the bad. That's what I needed most. That's what makes me feel the most secure.


There came a time for you, where you wanted to settle down, get married, and have kids. That time may come for me. Don't you think a guy that you're crazy about, and is crazy for you would be a lot better for you, and a lot better father for your kids than a guy that simply fills in the boxes on a checklist?


I think that someone whose love is solid, realistic, and enduring, who isn't impulsive, who you can trust deeply will be a better parent for your kids and a better spouse for you. Yes, I think it's important that there is passion and that you feel crazy in love, but that kind of thing blends into the background through life's shared experiences and you can't base a relationship on it, in my opinion. I think loyalty, true devotion and commitment to a partnership that agrees to have children and raise them together is the most important of all and you only find that out through learning the person and discovering what their values and character are. This seriously takes time and most people if they are "in love" are too anxious to wait and find out, and they jump into things pretty quickly and before you know it, they already have kids and with them the true tests character arrive and start to show what you're really made of (and what you're relationship is made of).


Now remember, as a general rule, a guy has to pursue, if he wants to meet the woman of his dreams. Do you not think it's not a good idea for a man to learn how to pursue properly?


I think there are a lot of things more important than learning to pursue properly. I think if you learn to know and love yourself, and you learn to know and really respect others, that you begin to learn what is really really important to you in life (as in what really counts for you) and that then you will have no problem pursuing what you want and need and you will make wise choices and selections when you choose your teachers. I believe the people we choose to have serious relationships with are our teachers. (When the student is ready, the teacher appears). And I think lessons arrive from the most unexpected of places ;-)

I also think that a casual, bantering style that cuts through the bullshit and tells you about this person's values, dreams, and goals goes a long way toward selecting an eventual long term partner for love and to have kids with. Certainly you're not reading questions off from some interview sheet though, by any means. It's a process over time of learning the other person with the intent of finding one who you believe fits you as your end goal, who will be your companion on the journey, your lover, parent to your children, and sincerely your best friend.
 OutMind
Joined: 2/13/2007
Msg: 288
Players! What is it like to play? C'mon be honest!
Posted: 12/4/2007 7:09:07 AM

You are one that make sense when you post. Weather I agree with what you have to say or not. Even when you seem to miss the point. But that guy is just a basher! Post after post. He has used just about every topic available to bash women and tear them apart.


Hmmm. I see your point.
 svj
Joined: 9/15/2007
Msg: 289
Players! What is it like to play? C'mon be honest!
Posted: 12/4/2007 7:47:19 AM
I think there are a lot of things more important than learning to pursue properly. I think if you learn to know and love yourself, and you learn to know and really respect others, that you begin to learn what is really really important to you in life (as in what really counts for you) and that then you will have no problem pursuing what you want and need and you will make wise choices and selections when you choose your teachers.

It seems we are in 100% agreement. Allow me to explain.
The average "nice" guy feels that the person doing the chasing is inherently inferior to the person being chased. When she shows disapproval, he feels he needs to justify himself to her. His actions are dictated by how he thinks she will react, because he believes, deep down, that if he did what he wanted to do, she wouldn't love him. It's not very attractive, but it's the way he's come to think after being rejected time after time after time after time after time after time.

They basically wait for a woman's "biological clock" to take over, and she has to "settle" for a "nice" guy to have the family she dreams of. Know how to spot which marriages/LTRs those are? Usually they're the ones where sex pretty much stops when the kids are born.

Sadly, no one taught him to catch the interest of an attractive woman...
His frustration with this is expressed in words like "sluts!" and "gold-diggers!"
And no one ever taught her to keep the interest of an attractive man.
Her frustration with this is expressed in words like "Player!" and "Head Games!"
Don't be fooled... Most women are every bit as clueless in the game of love as most men.

S0 it seems that we actually agree. You see... the biggest component of learning to build attraction (pursuing properly) is learning to know and love yourself, and learning to know and respect others.... while still respecting yourself.

Both men and women, IMO, need to become "master players" of their own "inner game", before they can enter into a relationship that can stand the test of time.

The vast majority of people don't. And because of this, most long-term relationships fail before marriage. 50% of marriages fail. Of the half that remain, it's reasonable to say that only half of those are actually more satisfying to their participants than before they got married.

I was raised by one of those marriages (on the "successful" 50%) where both grew to actively dislike each other, never mind love. Personally, I refuse to bring my kids into that kind of situation. I love them too much for that... and I don't even have them yet.

Once the "inner game" becomes second nature... you can forget all about the facts and figures. Your instincts are now experienced and developed enough to look after you, without having to consciously think about it, like riding a bike. You don't think about balancing... you just do it.
That leaves you free to have fun and live in the moment... because you now know that you can trust your instincts not to let you fall in love with someone that isn't good for you. You can just enjoy the ride.
 OutMind
Joined: 2/13/2007
Msg: 290
Players! What is it like to play? C'mon be honest!
Posted: 12/4/2007 7:59:21 AM

The average "nice" guy feels that the person doing the chasing is inherently inferior to the person being chased. When she shows disapproval, he feels he needs to justify himself to her. His actions are dictated by how he thinks she will react, because he believes, deep down, that if he did what he wanted to do, she wouldn't love him. It's not very attractive, but it's the way he's come to think after being rejected time after time after time after time after time after time.


Well said. If you go into an interaction seeking her approval. You lose. If you go into the interaction ready to respond to her interview. You lose. So, don't seek approval, do not play to her interview. Just have fun. If it means making a joke that totally bombs. Let it be. She is not attracted to your ability to make that joke, but the attitude that you just don't care of the outcome. Like you said.


like riding a bike. You don't think about balancing... you just do it.
 OutMind
Joined: 2/13/2007
Msg: 293
Players! What is it like to play? C'mon be honest!
Posted: 12/4/2007 6:58:26 PM

Confidence is being able to walk up to a woman, who is expecting you to try some lame line on her, and without a word, kiss her, and have her melt in your arms and knowing that it will work.


Very good M. I have never been able to do that. However, I remember working up a woman for that first kiss. Yet after you've done that a few times and you become kind of c0ckvy and instead you go. No. I want her to be the one that just ravages me with a big one. So I can pull her away. And you suddenly get good at it. And it works about 90% of the time. So you are pulling back and they are just coming into you.

(Different technique, I guess, for us shy guys.)
 OutMind
Joined: 2/13/2007
Msg: 296
Players! What is it like to play? C'mon be honest!
Posted: 12/8/2007 1:48:37 PM

The only "real players" are those who lie and deceive. The married people, as an example, who hide the fact, get involved in "relationships", while continuing to live their real lives in their marriages. Or the con artists, who embezzle money from wealthy paramours, by putting out a false front, funded by the proceeeds from their last victim. How many of those are there, though?


Melo, I totally disagree with you. You may be trying to give a title to a particular type of individual a player, but what currently culturally known as a player or PUA is not what you describe above. That doesn't mean that some may not be lier and deceivers, but the ones I've known are pretty straight forward about their intentions. Perhaps the one lie that they do commit is not admitting to being a player. But they will tell you that they do meet a lot of women. So, two totally different animals.
 OutMind
Joined: 2/13/2007
Msg: 297
Players! What is it like to play? C'mon be honest!
Posted: 12/8/2007 1:52:05 PM

PLAYERS DO NOT LIE. ITS THE PPL WHO DATE THEM WHO MAKE ASSUMPTIONS BASED ON NO TRUTH! players dont have to lie. actual players are very up front that they arent exclusive to anyone they date. and just for the record, it doesnt make them void of or incapable of forming lasting relationships. what they avoid are the typical bs pitfalls of traditional attachments.


Well said. But I am going to tell you why players in general do not lie. Not because they can not, some actually do. The problem is that if you begin to lie, you can't keep up what you told one person as opposed to another. And one thing a player does, he is nurturing probably about an easy 6 fires at the same time and at different stages of evolvement.
 nikonflash
Joined: 9/2/2007
Msg: 301
Players! What is it like to play? C'mon be honest!
Posted: 12/9/2007 2:55:26 AM
This subject always amazess me, players are players both male & female. They have no heart & have no empathy, they are only into there own needs. Players feel no pain & genuine people get hurt. Without a doubt if I became a player I would get all the sex i want I know coz of all the female responses & in everyday life, but I will never scoop so low & become a player. Unfortunately I'm on the lower end of the genuine scale here, so most people on here don't give a crap both male & female.
 OutMind
Joined: 2/13/2007
Msg: 302
Players! What is it like to play? C'mon be honest!
Posted: 12/9/2007 7:48:15 AM

a player stops being a player and becomes a commonplace low life scum lookin to stroke their own ego is when lying comes into the equasion. these are not varying degrees of a character, they are totally different things.


Well said. Also Mello, I think what you are calling a Player and a Womanizer my be correct terminology a long time ago, or in psychology books, or in academia, but the current language as used in perhaps over 20 different books and the people who are PUAs is the other way around. I want to clarify this with you, because I know you are very stubborn and will not switch labels, but also because once the labels are switch you can realize we are talking the same thing.

Eazk, That whole dialogue thing was funny. I have one also in what I do for living that could drag out for half an hour and it was totally fun.

After the response "what do you think this is, a job interview" type of comment and I conceded to tell them, I would say "I shoot people." Many times they would automatically respond, "so you're a cop." "Not really, but I do interrogate them before I shoot them." That of course would lead to a ton of other little talk. The point is that if I had spent that half an hour telling her the technical aspect of my work, she would be going in her head "I wish he would shut up." Instead, they were laughing, asking weird questions, that sometimes got sexual on their own accord, and both had fun.
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