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 AUTHOR
 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 69
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Women who take the initiative...Page 2 of 5    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5)

we're supposed to take the initiative to ask the guy out, pay the bills, have their kids to raise by ourselves, look like a supermodel, clean the house, work on the house, fix the car and not complain.


Do you see a connection between that sort of male and the "liberal cesspool" this state has become? Just curious. I grew up in L.A., and I was expected to do all the usual guy things--my parents didn't much like excuses. Whatever they or my older sister didn't teach me, I picked up on my own, and I'm glad I did. I can pay the bills, fix just about anything on a car or around the house, clean that house better than a lot of women would, and cook pretty nice meals, too. And I don't bother to complain about it, because no one would want to hear it anyway. I don't mean that to sound boastful, because I also have good friends who do the same things when they need to and don't make a big deal of it. I'm sure there are lots of younger guys who see these things the same way--even in California--so you don't need to settle for the fey and helpless ones.
 mamasboy069
Joined: 11/6/2012
Msg: 70
Women who take the initiative...
Posted: 3/31/2013 8:19:06 AM
Answerguy
really good post.










Happy Easter
 SFGIANTSFAN_IN_SOCAL
Joined: 5/19/2008
Msg: 71
Women who take the initiative...
Posted: 3/31/2013 8:36:57 AM
The guys are just a little tired of driving the bus themselves all the time and would welcome a break from the constant driving and welcome some initiative on the part of women


I disagree. I take the initiative. I manage my life. I pay my way. I don't get much help from my son's father in any way shape or form (child support, visititation, etc.) and still we live in a nice home in a good area and he's getting a great education. The last two relationships I've been in have been, to my knowledge, "equal". As in, we made the same income or I made slightly more. I cooked, I cleaned, I took care of the kids (mine and theirs), and I worked full-time just like they did. At the end of those relationships, within a year, they were married to women who had kids and the women needed to be completely supported. As in, they didn't even have JOBS. Their job was to be supported.

I don't think men want an indepedent woman AT ALL. I think men "think" they want someone who takes initiative and who carries their weight, but in reality, they want someone who is completely helpless and dependent.

I find it funny that the thing that made me initially so attractive in these relationships ended up being the one thing they could do without in the end.
 Rabbitman49
Joined: 10/20/2005
Msg: 72
Women who take the initiative...
Posted: 4/1/2013 12:58:05 PM
Women are very good at taking the initiative. They take everything else too, especially in a Divorce!
 LAgoodguy
Joined: 8/21/2008
Msg: 73
Women who take the initiative...
Posted: 4/1/2013 2:14:13 PM
SFGIANTSFAN IN SOCAL, are you really sure that the reason they left were because you were indepedent???
I hear alot of women say that man dont want smart women or indepedent women. It's always something that is too good for the men. When in realty it might be something else about you that he didn't like. Did you ask them why they left?? You might get a diffrent answer then you think.
 j_ff_ray
Joined: 1/23/2013
Msg: 74
Women who take the initiative...
Posted: 4/1/2013 2:45:18 PM
Welcome to California. Where women are men and men are women and nobody knows what role they are supposed to play. Some of them even change genders and expect the government to pay for it. (san francisco). I'm surprised that this state actually voted no on gay marriage since half the state is fruity. Yes, mominatrix, we're supposed to take the initiative to ask the guy out, pay the bills, have their kids to raise by ourselves, look like a supermodel, clean the house, work on the house, fix the car and not complain. Basically, we're supposed to have two roles, both men's and women's, and the guys can just sit back on their asses and play video games. I'm so glad for equality and to be able to live a liberal cess pool, ooops, I mean state.


That is one way to look at the issue of women taking initiative in a relationship here. That the state is a liberal cesspool and fruity. It's because of politics. And Obama maybe?

Another might be that in the real world, generally women do make a first 'move,' it is just incredibly subtle. Proximity, friendly conversations, a softer voice, an extra half second glance. Traditionally, women generally initiate contact with a man by making subtle cues that they are available and then waiting for men to initiate contact and take the next step.

Men that hit on women without any of these cues are often considered creeps, stalkers, playboys, letch, whatever horrifies that woman the most. So (most) men learn to not just hit on every girl they see in a nice dress. This is reality.

However, online, that isn't possible. Men waiting for some kind of a sign to proceed are not finding it, so without any social cues, some feel they have to go the letch route and blindly throw themselves at the attractive woman they see here. The online dating process is not quite perfected and doesn't reflect meeting people in the real world.

There is also a backlash against the 'Rules' that are having girls put no effort into relationships. The reality in that situation is that men feel like they are dating an unresponsive brick. It is emotional manipulation that only works on certain people.
 SFGIANTSFAN_IN_SOCAL
Joined: 5/19/2008
Msg: 75
Women who take the initiative...
Posted: 4/1/2013 4:25:18 PM
SFGIANTSFAN IN SOCAL, are you really sure that the reason they left were because you were indepedent???
I hear alot of women say that man dont want smart women or indepedent women. It's always something that is too good for the men. When in realty it might be something else about you that he didn't like. Did you ask them why they left?? You might get a diffrent answer then you think.


Of course I asked! I knew one of them for 25 years before we started dating. I firmly believe in trying to figure out what I can do better. These were serious relationships, not a first date where the guy never called again. Both answers were variations of "you don't need me". Maybe they were feeding me bullsh*t, but they didn't have to.


Normally, I would let this pass, but I've heard this time and again from my girlfriends. One of my girlfriend's, Andrea, was a Director of Marketing at SalesForce. She was great friends with this guy who was her surf instructor and after a couple of years they started dating. They broke up about 6 months later and he moved a woman with 2 kids and no job in even though he had previously told Angela that he wasn't interested in her because she had no ambition. They ended up getting married.
 Hoopsfan68
Joined: 2/17/2013
Msg: 76
Women who take the initiative...
Posted: 4/5/2013 4:07:06 PM
To rabbitman49: I hope you are not suggesting ALL women take everything in a divorce because that's a bunch of BS. In my case, there was a small possibility I would have to pay alimony. In my case, I was extremely fair because I wanted out. I did not touch his 401K, which was 1/2 mine (it was a nice chunk of change)(married 19 years). So, please don't lump all women together. I am sure there are many guys out there that have taken a lot from women in divorce, too.

==================
As far as women taking the initiative, I like a man who takes the lead, especially in the initial stages.
I believe men do like independent women; however, men like to be needed. Since, obviously, I am partially to blame for my divorce, I am now proactive in trying to understand men. (long way to go no doubt) And, because I have read many relationship web articles, I do agree men want to feel needed, appreciated, admired, etc..(who doesn't right??).I have a different mind set on relationships than I used to....actually, don't think I ever had a mindset until my divorce. Go figure.

For me, I want a man to be a man and I want to be a woman.... in our modern world. By the way, I have worked full time since 18, raised 2 kids, cleaned, volunteered for school/sports/etc...BUT I did not cook..(hated it)..the ex-husband did it, and thank goodness for that! Or my kids would have been eating cereal forever....ok joking....gotta put things into perspective :)
 VolcanoKing
Joined: 8/6/2012
Msg: 77
Women who take the initiative...
Posted: 4/6/2013 12:30:03 PM
This conversation seems to have broadened into something way beyond what the original question was..which is about the man making the first move. Like, in contacting you off a website and asking you out.

With all the dates I have had from online, I initiated all of them. No one had problem with it. Sometimes, the men you might be interested in do not contact you first, or have never run across your profile. So, you sift thru, find some interesting people and contact them. I don't find this to be an issue for me, as a woman. Wouldn't I rather go out with someone I think I want to?

The other issue is alot more complex..once you are involved with someone, how do you feel, as a woman..about him being the one that seems to be needed to be "taken care of"..is that the question people are mulling over? Once the relationship has been established, I prefer a back and forth, no one should shoulder more of the burden. I work, have a car, and a place to live, by myself. I would expect, at the very least, the guy has the same. This is best for privacy, transportation (especially here in Los Angeles) and being able to go out and do stuff, have spending money.

Interestingly, this is where I have found some men REALLY get resentful if they dont have a job or car, and it becomes a concern for me. Like I am asking for the world, for some unreasonable, gold digging request, for a guy to at least be employed, whatever job it may be. There was a time when men did not WANT to date, or feel they had enough to offer, if they were not employed, or had the means to take a woman out, without her being the taxi all the time. This has NOTHING to do with being materialistic..it is about finding an equal, self sufficient, has-it-together partner. Now, it's an INSULT if a woman asks that a man be self sufficient.

I've had men get very upset and indignant over my concerns with their living at home with their parents and being unemployed...well..sorry. I am not asking for anything that I myself do not bring to the table. I don't think that is being unreasonable. What happened to male pride? I get that people go thru hard times, and sometimes have to stop and back up, but to bark at a woman because of her concerns..which in this case I feel are fair, unless you want to have sex with his parents in the other room..you know what I mean.

No one wants to accept certain limitations their lifestyles choices might present, and would rather scream at someone about how "judgemental" they are.

Back to the initiation thing..I've initiated both online and offline..which once lead to an 8 year relationship. But I do not *chase* a man. If we've set a date and he's a no show, or if I make some suggestions about possibly getting together and doing something, and he isn't responsive to it, I move on. There is no lingering with people who don't show interest. I have my own rejection to deal with, all of us do.

I wish we all had more understanding about this, instead of the spew, indignation and anger that results when you are honest with someone.
 VolcanoKing
Joined: 8/6/2012
Msg: 78
Women who take the initiative...
Posted: 4/6/2013 12:37:26 PM
This conversation seems to have broadened into something way beyond what the original question was..which is about the man making the first move. Like, in contacting you off a website and asking you out.

With all the dates I have had from online, I initiated all of them. No one had problem with it. Sometimes, the men you might be interested in do not contact you first, or have never run across your profile. So, you sift thru, find some interesting people and contact them. I don't find this to be an issue for me, as a woman. Wouldn't I rather go out with someone I think I want to?

The other issue is alot more complex..once you are involved with someone, how do you feel, as a woman..about him being the one that seems to be needed to be "taken care of"..is that the question people are mulling over? Once the relationship has been established, I prefer a back and forth, no one should shoulder more of the burden. I work, have a car, and a place to live, by myself. I would expect, at the very least, the guy has the same. This is best for privacy, transportation (especially here in Los Angeles) and being able to go out and do stuff, have spending money.

Interestingly, this is where I have found some men REALLY get resentful if they dont have a job or car, and it becomes a concern for me. Like I am asking for the world, for some unreasonable, gold digging request, for a guy to at least be employed, whatever job it may be. There was a time when men did not WANT to date, or feel they had enough to offer, if they were not employed, or had the means to take a woman out, without her being the taxi all the time. This has NOTHING to do with being materialistic..it is about finding an equal, self sufficient, has-it-together partner. Now, it's an INSULT if a woman asks that a man be self sufficient.

I've had men get very upset and indignant over my concerns with their living at home with their parents and being unemployed...well..sorry. I am not asking for anything that I myself do not bring to the table. I don't think that is being unreasonable. What happened to male pride? I get that people go thru hard times, and sometimes have to stop and back up, but to bark at a woman because of her concerns about his stability..which in this case I feel are fair, unless you want to have sex with his parents in the other room..you know what I mean.

No one wants to accept certain limitations their lifestyles choices might present, and would rather scream at someone about how "judgemental" they are.

Back to the initiation thing..I've initiated both online and offline..which once lead to an 8 year relationship. But I do not *chase* a man. If we've set a date and he's a no show, or if I make some suggestions about possibly getting together and doing something, and he isn't responsive to it, I move on. There is no lingering with people who don't show interest. I have my own rejection to deal with, all of us do.

I wish we all had more understanding about this, instead of the spew, indignation and anger that results when you are honest with someone.

And to be fair, I am sure men have plenty of stories about women who just kinda cruise along, happy to be supported by a guy...I know some..seems to be more socially acceptable so you hear less complaints..but unless she's got kids she is raising, or some medical issues, whatever..if an able bodied woman is just sitting screwing around with her iPad all day on a man's dime..meh.
 OCRebellion
Joined: 2/8/2011
Msg: 79
Women who take the initiative...
Posted: 4/7/2013 3:05:52 AM
I think one of the key things here is the woman. Does she have the career, etc. and remains feminine, caring, blah blah blah or have the career, money, independence give her masculine energy and, therefore, tries to be the Alpha in the relationship. I think that this type of woman is the one that ends up with the guy who sits on the couch and plays video games because he's ok with the woman wearing the pants, dictating, etc. I don't think it's so much about cleaning, cooking, etc. it's about the way she handles herself. Her conversations with her man, the way she talks about him to family, friends, the way she treats him, etc. Someone said that the guy she was seeing left her for someone that didn't work, etc. Perhaps it wasn't about the lack of working, it was about being with a "feminine woman." For successful career women, and I will include myself in this statement, you have to work at the balance. I cannot come home and be the career female in the house...I have to check her somewhere before the front door...lol. It's no secret that I've been jumped on by some of the women on this forum that haven't had dating success, think SoCal or Cali guys suck, but these are the same women that have what I would call masculine energy.
 Rabbitman49
Joined: 10/20/2005
Msg: 80
Women who take the initiative...
Posted: 4/7/2013 11:09:29 AM
RE: ^ - So where are these women who will pounce on us? I'm not finding them. Or are they only lezbos? ;-)
 SFGIANTSFAN_IN_SOCAL
Joined: 5/19/2008
Msg: 81
Women who take the initiative...
Posted: 4/7/2013 7:34:47 PM
OCRebellion...

I think you might be right. I read an interview by Cindy Crawford where she was quoted as saying that in order to save her 17 year marriage, she had to take a back seat and let her husband drive the bus. I'm paraphrasing, but the fact that she was financially secure in her own right made their marriage difficult because he didn't feel like he had anything else to offer; by letting "go" and letting him take control, it's saved their marriage.
 LAgoodguy
Joined: 8/21/2008
Msg: 82
Women who take the initiative...
Posted: 4/7/2013 11:21:51 PM
I'm with Steve many women who say they independed, Tend to me control freaks and think they are always right and if you don't agree with them then there is something wrong with you lol..
As for women who take the initiative that the only thing that works. For me personaly I never ask anyone out IRL any more. Only dates I had for the last few years were when I were asked out. So I would say that I only go out with women who take the initiative ...
 SFGIANTSFAN_IN_SOCAL
Joined: 5/19/2008
Msg: 83
Women who take the initiative...
Posted: 4/8/2013 11:03:00 AM
OMG. I have a friend who is such a control freak that she won't even go out to dinner with you if it's not what she wants to eat. It's totally bizarre. Drives me nuts. You know, sometimes the company is worth having a different kind of salad served at a different restaurant.
 Rabbitman49
Joined: 10/20/2005
Msg: 84
Women who take the initiative...
Posted: 4/9/2013 11:02:41 AM
RE: #101 - Aside: Your statement made me think about this: Women often accuse men of thinking with other than the head on their shoulders. Meanwhile, many women say that they're "open minded" when that really means that their legs are wide open. So who's really thinking with what they have below the belt?
 pseriouslyt44
Joined: 3/6/2013
Msg: 85
Women who take the initiative...
Posted: 4/9/2013 1:35:56 PM
I think when women says they are open-minded, what they are saying is they are open to anything but not obligated, like they are optional when it comes to choosing their guys to date. It is like they are taking the initiative of approach a guy if he is handsome and sexy but when it comes to a regular guy then he should do the approaching.

I am not just saying this, I get that all the time lol.
 LAgoodguy
Joined: 8/21/2008
Msg: 86
Women who take the initiative...
Posted: 4/9/2013 4:03:30 PM
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ If women are not attracted to you then do you still expect them to chase you??? Do they have to do it just cause its you ??? I'm sure women are not as good people as you, After you you do chase women that you find only so so attractive.
Guys tend to whine and complain so much more then women do about being so nice and not getting the woman they want.. Guess most men have trouble handling being single unlike women. If you look at the big pic there are about as many women as there are men. so for every single guy there is a single woman that don't date. Guys need to get a life like women do and stop complaining
 OCRebellion
Joined: 2/8/2011
Msg: 87
Women who take the initiative...
Posted: 4/14/2013 6:29:33 PM
SF...I thought of you Friday night. I was watching Dateline and one of the stories was an interview with Gabrielle Reece; how she almost divorced and what she did to save her marriage. Not sure if you saw it, but the short version was that regardless of her recognized accomplishments and success, in order to save her marriage, she had to be her "feminine" self at home and, to some extent, submissive (she relates that to the man being the head of the house and she taking care of the home). I guess she's also written a book about all of this... might be an interesting read.
 SFGIANTSFAN_IN_SOCAL
Joined: 5/19/2008
Msg: 88
Women who take the initiative...
Posted: 4/21/2013 6:26:08 PM
Or...this could be part of the reason too...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpWkZiZaQsA&sns=sms
 SFGIANTSFAN_IN_SOCAL
Joined: 5/19/2008
Msg: 89
Women who take the initiative...
Posted: 4/21/2013 6:27:04 PM
OC...

I'll check it out. I've been giving it a lot of thought. My personality is so ingrained as a part of me that I would have a difficult time "leaving it at the door", but I recognize a need to "soften" in certain areas.
 tony5montana
Joined: 4/20/2013
Msg: 90
Women who take the initiative...
Posted: 4/23/2013 12:43:00 PM
Women who take the initiative know what they want so it's cool.
 mateo45
Joined: 1/17/2008
Msg: 91
view profile
History
Women who take the initiative...
Posted: 5/4/2013 9:58:51 PM
I keep hearing some men whine about how women never make the first move. So once again I find myself a bit curious...

Do you really want a woman who is going to singlehandedly drive the bus in a relationship? What if women who make the first move, then go on to propose? How will you feel about that? Would that be acceptable?

Or are you just too lazy to make the first move and want to sit around and wait, so you don't have to ever be rejected?

Guess I don't understand why it's ever an issue to begin with, unless maybe some folks have certain "expectations" re: gender "roles". I mean regardless whether you're a a man or a woman, if you're actually interested in someone, then fer godssakes, why not just say ''Hi'' and introduce yourself (and why do we even need to have these unspoken "rules" ... duh)?!!
 Bearfish13
Joined: 11/3/2012
Msg: 92
Women who take the initiative...
Posted: 5/11/2013 8:31:51 AM

Yep, I don't want any control freaks in my life. If a woman is easy going, fun to be with and adds value to my life then I want to be with her. If she throws up roadblocks, restrictions, starts making demands, and complicates my life then I'd rather be single. Sex is nice, but I'm actually ok without it too. Maybe that makes me weird, but I've never been led around by my genitals, and that frustrates the hell out of women who want to control me.


i agree with this
 lonelyguy555
Joined: 1/17/2011
Msg: 93
Women who take the initiative...
Posted: 7/8/2013 9:35:38 PM
Well in my case I would not mind if a woman was willing to take the drivers seat.
You see I'm very dyslexic and I don't drive. It makes it very hard for me to make the first move.
------ It's a concept that never seems to cross the minds of a modern woman - - - A guy with a social issue.

Yet I keep trying because I know women will not approach me, and I can't expect that.
Plus I know that every time I put my best foot forward . . . Ill most likely get kicked.

That's what 20 years of dating/trying to meet a nice women . . . has been like for me and for most guys. I think.
Not one has ever asked me out, flirted with me, offered to buy me a drink, or shown interest in me that was romantic.
Even if I went out of my way to do most of those things for her.

I'm far from lazy, but I don't meet any women who are as pro-active as I am.
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