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 VolcanoBoy
Joined: 12/4/2007
Msg: 69
Open Letter to the Government from an AWOL Soldier Page 5 of 9    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9)
...the US people become lazy...

This is worth making a new reply. I've posted about it once before. If people truly believe the system is corrupt they [the people] can't just throw votes into a system the they claim to be corrupt and hope a president will be their knight in shining armor!
America seems to be the perfect place for peaceful demonstration, don't you agree?
Unlike how it was for the Tibetan monks, if people had the strength to gather by the millions and demonstrate they don't have to fear being slaughtered! It is no time to be lazy.

Hmm I think the URL got copied wrong. Getting a wrong page sort of deal.
"There is an end-user problem. If you have reached this site from a web link,"
But yes, Americans cannot put blind faith on a perfect president arising.
If they truly believe elections to be rigged and all the other things we both hear of there should be stronger action.
 VolcanoBoy
Joined: 12/4/2007
Msg: 72
Open Letter to the Government from an AWOL Soldier
Posted: 12/12/2007 1:35:00 AM
Get that link working, lol.
It looks promising.

But yeah, I've heard lots of people saying they don't see worthy candidates, find officials and judged cherry-picked for the wrong reasons, find businesses to dominate politicians, see both parties as working for the same side... but even if they are right, they still have the power to change it. Claiming to be powerless is looking for the easy way out of effort.


http://daccessdds.un.org/doc/UNDOC/GEN/N99/300/44/PDF/N9930044.pdf?OpenElement
This one. Not opening a PDF. Just baby blue page with an error message?
Do I not have authorization or accessed improperly? I don't get it.
I have acrobat.

""There is an end-user problem. If you have reached this site from a web link,
- Through your internet options, adjust your privacy settings to allow cookies or
- Check your security settings and make sure this site has not been blocked or
- You are probably using a very slow link that may not work well with this application.
Otherwise you have reached this site through unauthorized means.""
 VolcanoBoy
Joined: 12/4/2007
Msg: 74
Open Letter to the Government from an AWOL Soldier
Posted: 12/12/2007 1:53:51 AM
"The PEOPLE should NEVER fear their government, but the GOVERNMENT should always fear the people"

I like it.

And still the same error :( I'm not a stubborn mule with unchangeable opinions.
At least on Afghanistan - if the link works. Maybe I'll try to navigate their info on my own.
I'll have to do it tomorrow. Leave the link that comes the page before it maybe so I have somewhere easy to start?

Grrr not even the base of the URL
http://daccessdds.un.org/
Is giving me access. Unfortunate.
Edited post above to show full error message.
I am aware of in your post history you know a thing or two about computers.

Thanks again for mature discussion
Working on Uni application process then sleep.
Night.
 VolcanoBoy
Joined: 12/4/2007
Msg: 76
Open Letter to the Government from an AWOL Soldier
Posted: 12/12/2007 2:09:27 AM
Ack. Same thing but with ads and free web hosting and a pop up.
Oh well don't worry about it.
 irish5
Joined: 8/25/2007
Msg: 92
view profile
History
Open Letter to the Government from an AWOL Soldier
Posted: 12/12/2007 3:02:19 PM
VolcanoBoy: Your name suits you.....volitile, full of hot air and not quite a man yet.

Just out of curiosity, after reading all the comments re: the awol soldier, I viewed your profile and was not suprised after I read it. In it you state," HOWEVER even if the world is out of control I want to spend my time squeezing out the last of the FUN rather than devoting all my time to slow the inevitable, or simply arguing." It seems that you comments to a soldier who served her time and HAS been there, were very hateful and argumentative. So basically you do not even stand behind your own "profile" of yourself so how can anyone take your comments seriously. What exactly do you stand for?

Oh yeah.......people who haven't been there shouldn't speak of how it is. You made comments assuming that nona had not been there and now you just look foolish.

Someone who volunteers to join the military and wants all the benefits that go with it should stay true to their word. Lots of people were all too happy to join and get the traveling, medical , financial, and educational benefits but when it came time to DO THEIR DUTY they cower away. sad sad sad.... And yes I beleive the "poor soldier" everyone was speaking about should have been court martialed!
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 95
view profile
History
Open Letter to the Government from an AWOL Soldier
Posted: 12/12/2007 6:08:57 PM
There is nothing cowardly about what this man has done. I think it's extremely brave to stand up and admit that you have made a wrong decision for yourself. I think he only went AWOL out of desparation.

I firmly believe if he had appealed to be allowed to leave (or not deploy) they never would have let him. From things my daughter told me when she was there ... if a person said too much about not wanting to be there ... not believing in the supposed purpose for being there ... they could pretty much expect a bullet to the head ... from their fellow soldiers.

How very sad ... I thought we as humans had progressed past such acts of insanity.
 irish5
Joined: 8/25/2007
Msg: 98
view profile
History
Open Letter to the Government from an AWOL Soldier
Posted: 12/12/2007 8:33:05 PM
I feel no pity for someone who joins the MILITARY and doesn't think they need to fulfill their oath. I guess too many people think it's ok to break your own word. I just don't understand!!!What do people think when they join a military organization? If they are required to go to war by orders passed down to them why would their be an alternative to doing that? They are in the military not a college frat. Once again if you don't want the possiblity of being sent to war don't join the military. That is the bottom line.
 irish5
Joined: 8/25/2007
Msg: 99
view profile
History
Open Letter to the Government from an AWOL Soldier
Posted: 12/12/2007 8:36:24 PM
cotter: I am also glad your daughter made it home. Warm wishes to you and yours on her safe return.
 VolcanoBoy
Joined: 12/4/2007
Msg: 100
Open Letter to the Government from an AWOL Soldier
Posted: 12/13/2007 1:59:48 AM
VolcanoBoy: Your name suits you... hateful&arguementative to Nona...ect

most volcanos are not in danger of eruption, contain lot more than hot air.. ah but I digress.
If you really want to know what I associate with the name you can message me.

Me hateful? I was a bit shocked at the violence people wished on the AWOL soldier so I respond with a fraction of the ire Ive seen. Ive cooled down since then and most posts responding to her have been respectful and civil as i am at most times. I liked the last quote I saw for example.

Foolish? Im not clairovoyant and I've already addressed that specifically.
Arguementative? Girl you might want to take a good look at yourself. I don't grab for straws trying to insult someones name, and quoting their profile for a thread because it happens to contain the word "arguing". Irony.

What do I stand for?
Learning, talking about more than celebs and seinfeld, planning ahead, not being so serious about life that I seem like a stiff, drinking lots on the rare times I do drink, pleasuring female partners as a priority before my own. It's a tough question which you don't care about so
what's your point?

Oh and did you know Ageism is a form of discrimination?
Apologize in PM and I'll forgive you.
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 108
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History
Open Letter to the Government from an AWOL Soldier
Posted: 12/13/2007 6:51:32 AM

I _____ swear (or affirm as the case may be) to be trued to the United States of America, and to serve them honestly and faithfully against all their enemies opposers whatsoever ......
This is what my daughter and several of her fellow officers had a problem with ... the so-called "ENEMY".

Once many of our soldiers get to Iraq and actually see what's going on over there (and here at home), they realize that they are there for the pure greed of a few. They are putting their lives on the line so that a few can line their pockets. They are being killed, maimed, and mutilated so that a few can get richer.

They know they are killing innocent people so that a corrupt administration can satisfy it's lust for greed and power. I can well understand that a soldier who is truly dedicated to the job of defending his/her country could get very disappointed and upon realizing exactly what they are doing ... change their mind about it.

That does not make them a COWARD.

It takes guts to realize when you have made a mistake and stand up and say so. It also takes guts to stand up for what you know in your heart is not right. It takes guts to tell a superior that what they are asking you to do is above and beyond the call of duty ... or better yet ... not even an expectation in the line of duty.

It's not the job of our military to be at the beck and call of a warmongering greedy administration ... H3llbent on steeling OIL from other countries. Any soldier that does not believe in aiding and abetting that crook in the white house and his cronies ... should not have to go to Iraq.

Iraq had nothing whatsoever to do with the Twin Towers being destroyed ... there is no reason for our military to be there.
 VolcanoBoy
Joined: 12/4/2007
Msg: 110
Open Letter to the Government from an AWOL Soldier
Posted: 12/13/2007 8:18:09 AM
At any time congress could re-enact the draft in the USA, just as easy as they shut it down and I'll be you every dollar in the Federal Reserves that there won't be very many problems with AWOL

Just opinion here but if the draft was re-enacted, or Iran invaded and the draft re-enacted, I think a lot of things would fall apart. I don't think it would be working with the same kind of people as before- could they really respect an oath or promises forced on them? There would be so many AWOL soldiers, and people trying to flee to Canada - which I don't think would work with Harper. He might just ship em all back under pressure. Or not and get Canada invaded lol.
But maybe they would honor it. I would be incredibly surprised.
I'd suspect civil war though.

Lol had to come back and check to make sure I didn't say we. I used to have that issue. So much crossover media, cartoons, news and everything here.
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 112
view profile
History
Open Letter to the Government from an AWOL Soldier
Posted: 12/13/2007 3:16:51 PM

If your daughter along with "others" had such a problem with it,then
why did they still join?
My daughter signed up before "Mr. McGreedy" went after Iraq's OIL.



It's not the job of our military to be at the beck and call of a
warmongering greedy administration ... H3llbent on steeling OIL
from other countries.
actually, yes it is, no matter the administration, the military is
a tool and I would suggest if someone does not want to fight, do not
join, it's that simple, as compared to getting scared and running like
a coward.
With all due respect ... the military is not the president's "personal" tool to use as he wishes ... whether it is to go in and blatantly steal / rob another country's natural resources or put up Thanksgiving decorations on the white house lawn.

There is a specific purpose to have a military in place and it's not being used for that purpose in Iraq.
 msquared
Joined: 8/31/2004
Msg: 127
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History
Open Letter to the Government from an AWOL Soldier
Posted: 12/16/2007 10:38:48 AM

Actualy what he is saying and it is true, diplomacy with terrorists does not work, history shows this and has showed this time and time again


If history has shown this time and time again, it shouldn't be difficult for you to present some examples of this. I challenge you to do so.
 msquared
Joined: 8/31/2004
Msg: 131
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History
Open Letter to the Government from an AWOL Soldier
Posted: 12/16/2007 12:11:05 PM

Any more challenges? Let me know. Thanks


You haven't answered my first one yet. You gave me examples of negotiations under extreme circumstances, in which the terrorist action is currently happening. What I asked for are examples of diplomacy, which is commonly used to prevent this kind of situation.
 msquared
Joined: 8/31/2004
Msg: 134
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Open Letter to the Government from an AWOL Soldier
Posted: 12/16/2007 8:49:34 PM

Yes I did give you an example how negotiations do not work, along with hijackings of planes, cruise ships, etc..you just refuse to see it obviously, not my problem,


While diplomacy often involves negotiation, negotiation by itself is not diplomacy, especially under the conditions you gave as examples.


I proved my point and can prove it forward if necessary, and I do not understand why you would ask me to give you examples of diplomacy with terrorists organizations when I have indeed stated diplomacy does not work with these particular organizations.


When something has not been given a real attempt, claiming it won't work is not a plausible excuse.
 Montreal_Guy
Joined: 3/8/2004
Msg: 137
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Open Letter to the Government from an AWOL Soldier
Posted: 12/17/2007 10:25:18 AM

Hell, Germany and Japan is STILL OCCUPIED over 50 years later.


Ummm......no ?

Having military bases in a country isn't occupation, seriously.

In both those cases, by roughly 1950 I think the term occupation would be certainly considered overkill.
 msquared
Joined: 8/31/2004
Msg: 140
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History
Open Letter to the Government from an AWOL Soldier
Posted: 12/17/2007 11:25:40 AM

I gave you an example of how diplomacy does not work with terrorists,
as well as bringing up hijackings of planes, etc, therefore, I
supplied you with what you requested, therefore, don't change
the question just because I followed through.


I asked for examples of diplomacy, not negotiation. My question has not changed.

And I'll give you a bit of leeway, since you seem to think I meant people who are actively committing acts of terror. I meant diplomacy with people who are considered hostile to the US with a strong possibility of becoming terrorists.
 msquared
Joined: 8/31/2004
Msg: 148
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History
Open Letter to the Government from an AWOL Soldier
Posted: 12/17/2007 9:04:08 PM

Therefore you are changing your question, I was speaking of terrorists, which I made the comment on within the first place, you then asked for examples of where diplomacy with terrorists did not work, and I did so, now, if you want to debate another question, that is great actually, I'm all up to possibly learn something new or enable someone else to learn something new, but do not pretend I did not get the question, for I did, and you have indeed changed the question pretending that you did not ask the original question, which I did provide an answer too. We were talking about "terrorists", not people who are considered hostile with the possibility of becoming terrorists.


If you were indeed only referring to people who are actively committing terrorist acts, then your claim was faulty to begin with. Diplomacy is not used in such a situation, as it is already too late then. Being as so many people with your views refer to all hostile people in the Middle East as terrorists, I presumed that is what you meant to begin with. Therefore I did not change my question.
 Montreal_Guy
Joined: 3/8/2004
Msg: 151
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History
Open Letter to the Government from an AWOL Soldier
Posted: 12/18/2007 6:35:56 AM

You are commander of the Army of an army that has just entered what some call and illigal was.Your army is in shambles.They are Starving,freezing,haven't been paid no clothing or supplies.Part of your army has been over run and you are in jeopardy of defeat when say 100 of your men start talking about mutney of outright desertion.these 1oo are led by two non coms and are causing dssention amount your troops.WHAT WOULD YOU DO?}


Tough scenario.

You've been placed in a situation where you are not being resupplied, you've been partly overrun, and in danger of defeat. It's one of those "Valley Forge" moments, as a commanding officer.

The problem is that the situation has deteriorated to a point where you may lose the battle, and it won't take much to tip it morale wise. If one hundred men are talking openly, then there are probably a thousand that are thinking about it.

One has to do a straight tactical analysis of what the real facts are. Is withdrawal possible ? Is standing your ground going to accomplish much more than getting everyone killed or taken prisoner. In that case, the overall war effort is weakened as the entire unit is wiped out.

If it's a "do or die" mission, with some chance of actually accomplishing something in the big picture - then you place the NCO's under arrest, gather the men together, and try and salvage something and get their spirit back up.

That's actually that should have been done long before that moment, as those things in your example are indications of morale being destroyed. Once it is, it's hard to get back.

If it's a lost cause, tactically, you still place the NCO's under arrest - and formulate a plan to withdraw. Afterwards, it may be proved they were right in wanting to pull out.
 Montreal_Guy
Joined: 3/8/2004
Msg: 153
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History
Open Letter to the Government from an AWOL Soldier
Posted: 12/18/2007 7:41:14 AM
As I said, I agree with the premise that a deserter is a deserter.

Someone else is going to take his place, and that person will be changed by the experience, perhaps physically wounded, or dead.

If you disagree, stand up and take the punishment like a man - convinced of your moral cause.

If you don't have that courage, then either fight - or realize you are a coward.
 mungojoe
Joined: 11/15/2006
Msg: 166
Open Letter to the Government from an AWOL Soldier
Posted: 12/18/2007 6:48:32 PM
I would say that the gov't is likely to start recieving a lot more "open letters" with the way things are going

Army Desertion Rate Jumps Sharply
Associated Press | November 16, 2007
WASHINGTON - Soldiers strained by six years at war are deserting their posts at the highest rate since 1980, with the number of Army deserters this year showing an 80 percent increase since the United States invaded Iraq in 2003.

While the totals are still far lower than they were during the Vietnam war, when the draft was in effect, they show a steady increase over the past four years and a 42 percent jump since last year.

According to the Army, about nine in every 1,000 soldiers deserted in fiscal year 2007, which ended Sept. 30, compared to nearly seven per 1,000 a year earlier. Overall, 4,698 soldiers deserted this year, compared to 3,301 last year.

The increase comes as the Army continues to bear the brunt of the war demands with many soldiers serving repeated, lengthy tours in Iraq and Afghanistan. Military leaders - including Army Chief of Staff Gen. George Casey - have acknowledged that the Army has been stretched nearly to the breaking point by the combat. And efforts are under way to increase the size of the Army and Marine Corps to lessen the burden and give troops more time off between deployments.

Despite the continued increase in desertions, however, an Associated Press examination of Pentagon figures earlier this year showed that the military does little to find those who bolt, and rarely prosecutes the ones they get. Some are allowed to simply return to their units, while most are given less-than-honorable discharges.

http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,156409,00.html?ESRC=army.nl
 TimPommell
Joined: 1/13/2005
Msg: 171
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History
Open Letter to the Government from an AWOL Soldier
Posted: 12/19/2007 7:42:04 AM
After reading the letter, I was moved by his passionate plea for an end to the divisiveness, and the claim that the responsibility for the war lies equally with all members of Congress as well as the President (my position in all previous posts). Then I reflect on my own military service and certain things come to mind:
1.) As a soldier, he was bound by voluntary oath to obey all lawful orders (this is one of the general orders, and something you are required to learn within the first few days of military service).
2.) If given an unlawful order, you are required to protest this order through the chain of command, all the way up the ladder if necessary, which of course ends at the White House (the President is THE Commander in Chief of the military). It is assumed that all orders are legal, given that few (none) at that rank or stage of training are recognized as legal experts in International or Constitutional law.
3.) Active duty in the military service is followed by an "inactive" period of military reserve and it is clearly identified in your individual contract for military service, i.e.; day 1. As a reservist, you are subject to be activated by Presidential order at any time during the contract period. Therefore extending a tour is not just legal, it’s something you voluntarily agreed to, and should anticipate in time of military conflict.
4.) The military is a tool used to accomplish a political end, when diplomatic efforts fail. It is not a democracy in which individual political opinions are weighed by the soldiers before agreeing to follow any particular order.

If he found that Conscientious Objectors were somehow ostracized in the military, just wait until he finds out how they feel about deserters, and that is precisely what he is.
 TimPommell
Joined: 1/13/2005
Msg: 173
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History
Open Letter to the Government from an AWOL Soldier
Posted: 12/20/2007 6:57:47 AM

federal court of taylor Diggs finds warrantless wiretap illegal.The administration is appealing that decision. Illegal? Yes, anyone being punished ,tried and convicted? No. Funny recurring sentence about legality ..if the mantra works.Keep the jingo simple repeat...
It’s been heard in several courts and she’s the only one who thinks it’s unconstitutional. Judge Diggs - Taylor has a conflict of interest in that one of her “side jobs” is partially funding the ACLU. It may be that failing to recuse herself from the case could result in disbarment. Taylor's ruling was subsequently overturned by the 6th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in Cincinnati. The Circuit Court ruled 2-1 that the people bringing the suit did not have standing. The Court's decision vacated the portion of Taylor's ruling concerning warrantless wiretaps.

yes unfortunately true,but look at charlie company situation where sgt.? shot himself in front of squad and they lost several others .Their solidarity in all refusing to go on patrol kept them from committing atrocities."we would have lit up everything",because they were over taxed are they traitors?in the eyes of the military?
were they hauled away?Did they do the right thing by disobeying an order?Heroes or
heretics ?What if this sort of thing happens to platoons, battalions, regiments Can you arrest them all shoot all of them as traitors ?This sort of event is occuring and has occured before, but gets covered up why?Morale?
If it gets covered up, how do you know about it? In my opinion, it’s an urban myth.


concientious objectors were somehow ostracized by the military

Damn straight .Any one ever been in knows that as fact,go spin ,deny,bleet all you want
does not erase that fact.I am not going to say how I know..end
Actually, Sergeant Alvin C. York, the most decorated US Soldier in WWI, was a Conscientious Objector… I find it ironic that a conscientious objector would even consider an all volunteer military as a viable career path, could it be they just feel they look good in camouflage?

war was legally claimed by Congress

Is poster saying in vasion of Iraq was declared by congress? I would like to see proof of that. Far as I know AUMF was authorized by Congress to invade Afghanistan,not Iraq
Read this…. It’s the 2002 resolution granting the authority to the President, specifically naming Iraq and the reasons for authorization for military action, and cites all appropriate UN Resolutions. http://hnn.us/articles/1282.html
 TimPommell
Joined: 1/13/2005
Msg: 176
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History
Open Letter to the Government from an AWOL Soldier
Posted: 12/20/2007 11:15:39 AM
I guess even lying to a sleeping congress to get your way (vote) works as well.
I wonder how many in this present administration are getting rich off the blood of the soldiers and families of Iraq? It really is a shame.
Guess you didn't notice where he blamed the continued funding of the war on democrats, and held them equally accountable as well... Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't principal prevent someone from continued support of a position that they know to be based on lies? Unless of course the notion they were lied to is in itself a lie.... Check the Congressional record, those screaming loudest to the CNN cameras that they were lied to are STILL supporting the war.....
 TimPommell
Joined: 1/13/2005
Msg: 180
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History
Open Letter to the Government from an AWOL Soldier
Posted: 12/22/2007 5:49:17 AM
What's the difference between Iraq and Vietnam??
George W. Bush knew how to get out of Vietnam.
Cute, inuendo and baseless accusations, but still cute!
Dan Rather may be gone, but clearly he is not forgotten!
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