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 sydneyleigh
Joined: 3/21/2008
Msg: 770
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Dinner Date - Who Pays?Page 7 of 38    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38)

Sorry but NEVER in human history has the guest paid more than the host. That's bad etiquette.


Thank you, JohnDuke, that's the point.
I was unemployed for a while (damned layoffs) and I never, and I repeat NEVER suggested to my boyfriend that we go out. WHY? Because if its my idea, and I do the asking, I PAY. He is my guest!

I did, however, suggest that we watch a movie in, cook dinner at home, go to a free concert in the park... go hiking or camping... things I knew I could afford.

Now, because he did take me out (more often than I'm comfortable with, actually, because I couldn't reciprocate in kind) I have planned a vacation, my treat.... because I want to make sure he knows that when I have it, I am VERY willing to share. He's going to fight me on this, but its something I feel like I WANT to do, because dammit, he deserves to be treated as nicely as he's treated me.
 Pete73052
Joined: 1/29/2006
Msg: 776
Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 9/3/2008 7:29:49 PM
Man pays. It's not about dependence - it's about being polite and somewhat traditional. It's nice. I always pay unless she specifically says she's taking me out. I like paying. I like not having to look at the prices to make sure I'm not ordering something that might pinch the budget of the other person. That's anxiety I don't want to deal with - I'd rather just pay.

I'm sure it's VERY DIFFICULT for women to accept meals from men they hardly know. They DO go through that anxiety - sizing up how well the guy likes her, should she just get a salad or does she dare order the Orange Ruffy and can she cover her meal if he complains. It must be horrible to go through that. I know I couldn't.

Ladies, I'm buying...
 zangie
Joined: 5/30/2007
Msg: 777
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Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 9/3/2008 7:40:24 PM
Ace: What I don't understand is why because women still enjoy kindness and romance...that them liking it must mean we go back to the old , bad ways? Why are they bundled together? I just don't get that.

Why do you, obviously, and some other men, keep insisting one can't exist without the other?

Both are about treating someone with kindness and respect...you say you want men to be shown respect...why does it follow that it isn't disrespectful to a woman to treat her like another guy, or pal? Why is it said we have to give up being treated nicely in the dating world, because we are now being treated better in the civil world? It's like men want to punish us for "equality"...by saying we have to give up anything that is feminine or biological as regards to dating and feelings.

I am not dependent...I own my own home, I work for a living..I am not looking for "help"...I just enjoy the sense of being treated as a date...not a buddy.

I have paid for myself, I have paid for both ( heck , I even supported my last LT BF)..what bothers me , is men who it bothers...it just seems like punishment...or rude...or too return on investmentish...I do not expect it, I don't think I am entitled...but, I sure enjoy it when it happens...and I reciprocate often...and I don't keep score...

To me, it just seems like men who are so adamant about it are thinking with their heads...not their hearts...and that is something I will avoid at all costs. When I invite anyone out...I pay...and I certainly don't make them earn it in any way....
 Pete73052
Joined: 1/29/2006
Msg: 779
Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 9/3/2008 8:47:03 PM

Sorry but any man who excepts anything less than equality is whipped.


Much as I enjoy the occasional lash, I must wonder if the man you are talking about is also VERY VERY LONELY.
 Pete73052
Joined: 1/29/2006
Msg: 782
Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 9/3/2008 9:10:57 PM

So if a man doesn't pay he'll be lonely? That might be sometimes true.
But what does that say?
That he's basically paying for company and sex. What does that make his woman?


That makes "his woman" a date, or a companion, or his wife, or whoever she happens to be. There's nothing more beautiful than two people enjoying each other's company - and nothing uglier than the price of a frickin dinner standing in the way of that.

Worrying about who pays when, and feeling cheated if the spreadsheet doesn't balance... what does that make YOU?
 zangie
Joined: 5/30/2007
Msg: 783
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Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 9/3/2008 9:17:39 PM

Why can you treat your friends but not your bf?

Seems like you're above his friends. And he's below your friends.

Why date a woman who has friends who are treated better?


Quit deliberately misreading me john...I believe I said I treat too..I believe I even said I actually supported my last BF...so no BS about me not reciprocating...

Total equality is impossible..do you have some method of computing every little action of each person and weighing it? Rating it? I don't want equality in the sense of tit for tat..and anyone who keeps score that way is small minded and not capable of really loving someone...

Paying isn't masculine...paying is kind, generous and nice...from any gender. The rest of your post is hogwash and assumptions...obviously based on someone (or ones) who you know...you don't know me...and you are way off base...I don't expect men to pay because they are men...I like when they pay because it feels good...just like anyone would feel good by a kindness or gift...I like when anyone does something nice for me...and I sure appreciate it...

To resist something that, in the scheme of things, is trivial, in order to make some extreme point that applies to a small minority, is self defeating.

Since no man I have ever dated has complained about my generosity , nor have they "demanded" that I pay for a first date...I think I am doing just fine.

I don't find the demand to pay any less of an entitlement than women who feel entitled to special treatment...I like when a man treats precisely because I don't feel entitled to it..it is always a nice surprise...
 sydneyleigh
Joined: 3/21/2008
Msg: 796
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Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 9/4/2008 12:44:11 PM
See, I just handle things differently, since I'm the one bringing home more money, and working more hours....

the housekeeper takes care of my clean house and thoughtfully prepared dinners, or I make reservations. Cause frankly, my time is worth more without the chores. Neither my partner nor I do the cleaning and cooking (unless we choose to cook)

And I'm always willing and eager with my affection. Because my partner loves and respects me. (and well, he's HOT)

Ace, you can find that woman - you just gotta look for the one who wants to be a SAHM, and as long as you are making plenty of $$ to support her, shouldn't be a problem. (because she can't do all that you want AND hold down a full time job outside the home, that's not EVEN a reasonable request)

Oh, might I suggest trying an ultra-christian church? Some of them are really into the "submissive wife" thing. Might be worth a look.
 zangie
Joined: 5/30/2007
Msg: 809
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Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 9/4/2008 8:42:18 PM
^^^^well said, lil brooker..better than I could...

To some men it seems to be about money and equality..to myself, and some women, it is about how it feels..appears to be the oft quoted mars vs venus thing...

No matter how "equal" I think I am..I can not change my biological responses...which respond to men who act in ways that make me feel "safe", "protected", "liked"...sure a guy can fake it...but, not over a period of time..still, it is worth the risk...I never again want to be in a position to feel like I am not "worth" it, or my value is monetary, or based on how "equal" I am to him...

No matter how logically my brain can ponder this "equality" means same thing...my feelings & heart just aren't there...and I trust them too, probably more...

I never imagined equality being a thing where some men made us feel somehow less because we aren't "equal" enough...or like them enough..I tend to see this as another type of oppression... to them, somehow, no matter what..we will just never be good enough...
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 815
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Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 9/5/2008 6:45:07 AM
I hear you Space... and I want to pick up on this aspect of your post...

The stay-at-home-wife thing is what men my age and older were promised,

Promised, eh? I doubt you were promised it, not anymore than anyone is promised good weather or a happy life. Still, we complain about bad weather just as if it WAS a promise that someone has failed to deliver on and we resent it.

And who 'promised' it? Your parents? Because that is how they lived their life and you expected to carry on with it? Society? When the 60's and 70's of your childhood/adolescence had vast societal change splattered all over the news and our psyches? And that includes a wide, wide variety of things from JFK getting shot when you were around 5 years old all the way to civil rights movement, Kent State and bra burnings.

The point I'm trying to make here is you weren't promised this life, and arguably were "promised" something entirely different and much more turbulent ... yet unexamined, the subtle resentment of the perceived "broken promise" colours our life experiences.
 zangie
Joined: 5/30/2007
Msg: 819
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Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 9/5/2008 10:08:18 AM

Does the traditional custom of having the man invite (and therefore pay) make us more free, more proud, more equal? Or are we trading off something very important for a momentary sense of comfort.


Is it just me? Because I totally don't understand your point in that comment?

Being free, proud and equal just isn't something that would even occur to me in a dating venue?

BTW...if anyone had asked my opinion...I would have never agreed to an "equality" that included losing my identity as female...
 real1foryou
Joined: 1/28/2008
Msg: 824
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Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 9/6/2008 12:40:54 PM
When going out for dinner on a date, the 15 year old boy pays for the dinner.
If you are adults, your dating life has matured beyond that stage. The tradition comes from the young boy showing that he will provide for the woman and their kids and she will bear children, take care of his home and children. So you need to ask yourself? are you a 15 year old and she will fulfill the balance of the equation? If not, adults never expect others to pay their way for anything whatsoever. There is no such thing as 'inviting' when you are an adult. You may suggest an activity to do together and it's up to the other person to decide if they want to go as well which includes if they can afford it or want to spend their time or money in that manner along side of you. Slow dancing in the living room is romantic, shows mutual interest, and doesn't have anything to do with financial ability or expectation.
 real1foryou
Joined: 1/28/2008
Msg: 827
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Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 9/6/2008 4:50:11 PM
Dinner date is a teenage thing. Nothing romantic about paying an adults bills; house, car, or food. We do outgrow teenage habits but that doesn't mean romance isn't alive and well at any age. Just wrong to tell people that just because they come up with an idea for doing something together that it means it's an invitation. As a matter of fact, invitations for weddings often involve spending much more as the invitee than the those who sent out the invitation. Going out to dinner is not an invitation. It is an offer of his time ONLY. That fact that you find guys who will pay for YOUR time doesn't mean you aren't a vicious user of men.
 zangie
Joined: 5/30/2007
Msg: 828
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Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 9/6/2008 9:32:51 PM

Good point. Paying does not show any romance, especially if its expected by both parties. It needs to be shown in other ways.


Well, obviously, it isn't the only way..however, first of all...I am not going to anyone's living room, or theirs to mine on a first or second date?

Second of all...I don't think other people can define what is romantic for anyone other than themselves...everyone has their own ideas of what they find romantic..and men and women vary widely all over the board, as they seem to these days in everything....


I would not let customs dictate what decides your identity as a female. Such as staying in the home taking care of children till your husband gets home with a fully cooked meal.


Custom doesn't dictate...but, my own feelings, thoughts, perceptions do...and whose job it is to do chores has nothing to do with gender in my opinion...first of all.. I have no children, and never will...secondly...if both people are working full time...chores are shared..or, actually, I eat out a lot...

I'm not talking about traditional gender roles...I am talking about the fact that emotionally , physically, and in some ways mentally... I amvery different than men...and I have no desire to change that, and don't think I should have to..it is who I am.
 Lynsteph74
Joined: 12/1/2005
Msg: 829
Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 9/6/2008 10:32:23 PM
I was always taught that the one who ASKS, PAYS...but I was also taught to never go on a date unless I ahd the cash to pay for my half,and that it was rude not to offer to apy my half. I usually insist on paying the tip, at least...unless there is a huge wage discrepancy, in which case I will reciprocate, the next date, but it is something mroe in line wiht my budget.
 real1foryou
Joined: 1/28/2008
Msg: 831
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Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 9/7/2008 12:54:20 AM
A lady always pays for herself. She is no less of a person because she is a lady. In fact, being a lady implies that she is resourceful, undemanding, unexpecting, and a good companion. A good companion NEVER puts on airs or puts themselves above others. If you want to be the 'lil woman' then play games about men making a first move, or paying for another adults' bills. If you want to be a partner and be respected, then be a lady.
And you men who are trained dogs, stop telling us that you were 'taught' such and such. Grow up. Get a college degree. And treat women with respect. Let the ladies be partners. When you view them as frail, you diminish the tough, strong, conservative women who do their part in relationships. If you are paying the way of women you barely know, then you are desperate. It has NOTHING to do with respecting women. You are weak and are rationalizing your weakness. Women do NOT respect fools who spout off how they are going to take care of a female even when they don't know her. These ladies aren't dumb. Good luck to all. Life is about chivalry amongst the worthy, NOT about being a ceremonious fool. There are a lot of things your parents told you that do not apply across the board. Ask them. They grew up and learned also. So you should too. I remember my dad teaching us to wear a suit to church. So as an adult I still do. But I learned that for the last 20 yrs of dad's life that he didn't wear a suit to church or even own a suit. He said.. times change. Never would have guessed that from how he drilled into our heads that you ALWAYS wear a suit and tie to church. Same thing here. Grow up. If you are a gal, get over what they told you as a teenager. If you are a male. Be a man which means to know HOW to apply chivalry in a way that is recognized as being a solid male respected by men AND women.
 real1foryou
Joined: 1/28/2008
Msg: 833
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Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 9/7/2008 3:09:05 PM
The American Idol and Guitar Hero crowd always confuses good advice as a tirade. Yes, education in a profession will help you learn to think. Please write to your congressmen if you don't agree so they won't provide advanced education to the population from my taxes. Thanks.) I do wish you well and to be on a useful path one day that will advance beyond the 'As long as it works for you' defeatism. I am a gentle and generous spirit but do know that a Drill Sergeants yell is not a tirade but the appropriate tool to clear out the misguided and negligent teaching of the recruits youth. Boy thoughts are replaced with manly action with confidence. Even the corporate world today expects people to challenge what they have been taught to see if it really holds up under multiple factors. Living childhood cliches all throughout your adulthood is the cause of so much stress. It's like a lifelong anxiousness over the arrival of Santa Claus. Good luck and let's hope this world isn't dependent on 'As long as it works for you.' The answer to the OP is still that spending time together doesn't have any monetary obligation to it regardless of who generated the thought about spending that time together. Expect nothing, appreciate everything, live easy, love freely...when you die, there are no strings attached.
 real1foryou
Joined: 1/28/2008
Msg: 834
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Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 9/7/2008 3:25:20 PM
I doubt that anyone calling women gold diggers means it in the simplistic way of accepting an offered meal. Actually, most people I know (women more than men) would profusely refuse to accept such an offered meal.
I'm sure you know by now that the gold digger accusers are talking about the attitude, the demanding posturing, the entitlement mentality that goes with the term gold diggers.
Sort of like the back and forth with the guy who says I PAY! He might be as simple and naive as that but I doubt it. Otherwise he'd be running up and down the street giving money to strangers because he loves doing that. I can give him a way to send me money by paypal if that was as simple as his thought processes are. BUT HE IS NOT THAT SIMPLE.... I'd rather believe that there are charming and giving ladies that he knows very well that factor in to his 'respect' (otherwise he is using the wrong word for his feeling toward them.) He is probably NOT a fool and there are many cues to him that the gal is not a gold digger or a dead beat or a panhandler. He just didn't put it in his post.
Most guys, when dealing with good ladies are caring and fair. We do know a great many females who aren't endearing in attitude and genuineness and so we just don't spend time with them. The guy who posted that I PAY! just doesn't let the bad apples get that far. Let's think the best of him. I am VERY generous to crippled children and elderly causes and generous to family and friends, I'm just not into the gold diggers cause. Just not into that at all.
Much success to the rest of you,
Judge
 zangie
Joined: 5/30/2007
Msg: 863
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Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 9/8/2008 7:35:40 PM

I've been on these forums a very long time & I find that every time a "Who pays" topic comes out at least halve the women, if not more, simply conflict with the data you state in your "Book". Yes the women & men for that matter, in these forums have spoken quite well in that regard. I usually find the same few people jumping up and down that a man pays ect, when it seems the majority are more open minded with going dutch, who asks pays, taking turns paying.


Here's the thing, cooldude...the forums aren't very representative of real life...at least not my real life...I have never, in one instance, had any of these issues come up in my entire life , in the real world...for that matter, every date I have had from online dating, there was none of this arguing about who's paying for what... I didn't even know this was an issue till I got on the forums ( and most of the other issues on here too)...I think either the kind of people who like to post, or the kinds of people drawn to argue about gender differences are just drawn here in bigger numbers...and certainly some angry and bitter people too...I try to avoid those in either venue...

As vulf has said...in my life..who ever invites pays...it has always worked, and I'm sure it will continue to work in my world...so, anything I say here is just for the fun of debate...since the kind of guys I attract or are attracted to, follow the same patterns...I don't really have to worry about it...

And not once , in my entire life, has anybody accused me of taking advantage of anyone else...

If anything...I am the antitheses of that statement...
 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 880
Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 9/10/2008 11:39:53 AM

Dinner Date - Who Pays?

It seems to me that was the original question.
Let me speak to that with a relatively short answer for those of us with ADD...

The most reliable course of action is the male asks the female out on a date and the male pays. It's a nice touch, a courteous gesture, a nod to "equality" if the lady offers to get the tip, and such a gesture should not be seen as proof that the lady is a militant feminist.Actually a "militant feminist" would be the one most apt to insist on separate checks.
Now if the male has decided he doesn't care to continue seeing this female, separate checks will generally ensure that won't be happening,unless she is in fact a very dedicated feminist,or very needy/desperate.( Dedication to a cause is always admirable,unless that cause pisses you off to no end...and I get the distinct impression that dedicated feminism does EXACTLY that to a lot of males. Desperation/neediness is just sad.)

IF the dating continues/becomes courtship then a woman worth knowing will try to make sure that a suitor she values is not being unduly burdened financially,and that his efforts are appreciated. Sex is an event of mutual desire, NOT a "reward", or an "expression of appreciation. Men who encourage the women they date to use sex as a medium of exchange DESERVE to find themselves in relationships where the woman uses sex as a tool/weapon.

So, guys, expect to pay for those first few dates. If doing that a lot is going to strain your budget, then you must screen/filter intensely when using "personal ads" as a means of meeting women,and keep those first meetings inexpensive. Or, stick to the "old school" ways of meeting women, so chemistry/physical attraction gets established BEFORE you start dating.
And ladies, never go on a date without money or a credit card,just in case,for whatever reason, you need to pay for the date or at least your share. That's called being a responsible adult who is capable of looking after themselves, a trait applicable to BOTH genders.
Do not ABUSE a man's generosity. If you find it necessary to date in order to bring food and entertainment into your life, then you need to to some serious re evaluation of not only your dating goals, but your life ones as well.
Cindy O
 Remagine
Joined: 5/17/2006
Msg: 882
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Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 9/10/2008 2:03:10 PM
Some of you guys are frikken cheap LOL. Hi, the Man pays for dinner. The way I see it is if they make it thru my super-secret screening process then they deserve a free meal. The rest, the POF professionals and ones with old and/or pixelated pics get Starbucks.
 zangie
Joined: 5/30/2007
Msg: 885
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Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 9/10/2008 6:34:35 PM
Thank you Bob...at least some men still like women ...lol...
 GoneSailinBabe
Joined: 7/6/2008
Msg: 890
Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 9/11/2008 3:02:56 PM
You pay.
You asked.

If she offers, suggest she buy the ice cream. And head for a shop where you can both snag a cone and talk.

Where you work and how much she makes is irrelevent and THAT comment is rude. Means you're thinking of the date already on monetary terms and comparing what you have to what she has. That's wrong thinking, dude.

It ain't about money!
 GoneSailinBabe
Joined: 7/6/2008
Msg: 892
Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 9/11/2008 3:22:39 PM
Dude! The ORIGINIAL date for this entire thread was last YEAR.
More than likely the damn poster has already had the date, had the girl, had a baby, and a divorce and is BACK on POF looking for suspect number 2 for his next baby. Move on.


Just say "NO!" to recycling threads and topics!
 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 893
Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 9/11/2008 4:06:45 PM

So.....if I often ask for separate cheques, what does that make me if I'm not a feminist?

The exact words I used were "most apt to". Asking for separate checks doesn't automatically make you a feminist but it does make you a suspect lol.

I GET the concept of establishing that one is not a gold digger...but I for one do not care to enter into an ongoing involvement with a man who is that damaged and fearful.

The other situation outside of hyperindependence or militant feminism is the woman who had had it up to HERE with men who think her ass is for sale, and that the price is dinner. I guess I could understand that, but I would wonder why she seemed to keep having that same experience.
Cindy O
 lil red corvette
Joined: 5/12/2008
Msg: 895
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Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 9/11/2008 4:40:27 PM
Not been on many date eh ?
If the lady offers to contribute .. ask if she is sure.. if she confirms let her share.

Hope you are ready for the more complicated choices to come ..... :)
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