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Show ALL Forums  > Current Events  > Bush Vetoes Kids Health Insurance Bill - Again      Home login  
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 designingwoman
Joined: 9/4/2005
Msg: 26
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Bush Vetoes Kids Health Insurance Bill - AgainPage 2 of 11    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11)
Cotter has made some very good points on this thread.

Health care should be considered a basic, essential human right, not a privilege.
 Ravennaux
Joined: 6/5/2007
Msg: 27
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Bush Vetoes Kids Health Insurance Bill - Again
Posted: 12/13/2007 5:57:33 PM
Actually the Federal Gov't is the last place I'd like to see handle health care,talk about inefficient,the Gov't is a bottomless pit and the phrase universal healthcare payed for by the govt really means everybody is paying for everyone else,tax the workers to death for something they already pay for for themselves.Better we all work and pay for our own health care.I'm all for State govt's helping those that are in need,but those that can do for themselves should...read the Constitution,it is not our Federal govt's place to take care of us cradle to grave.Better the Feds cut taxes so we can each afford to take care of our homes and families and not depend on govt to keep us.With gifts come dependance.
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 28
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Bush Vetoes Kids Health Insurance Bill - Again
Posted: 12/14/2007 5:45:34 AM
I guess I don't understand what all the talk is about the funding of health care ... people will be paying into it. It's not like the government is going to foot the whole bill. The government doesn't foot the whole bill in Canada either … right? I know they sure didn't in Germany which is where I first experienced government organized health care. It sure was a blessing

Everyone pays into it ... everyone gets benefits. Granted, some will no doubt pay a little more because they have a higher income. Everyone pays what they can. The most important thing is that everyone will have coverage no matter what their income is.

No one will ever have to be concerned about losing their roof over their head because they can't afford to pay the doctor for needed health care. No one will ever have to worry about going on Welfare because they can't pay their medical bills. The rich won't have to be sooooo very concerned that their tax dollars are going to POOR people who have lost everything because they couldn't pay their medical bills.

I guess I don't understand why the rich are so afraid that the poor might benefit from something. They b1tch and complain about increased taxes to take care of the poor but can't see past the end of their nose as to what is creating the doggone situation to begin with.

Without health care, we are turning into an unhealthy nation. Do none of you understand how this impacts our population on the other side of the coin? I know women who are dying of breast cancer because they couldn't afford the mammogram to detect it. They have lost everything trying to pay the medical bills related to the surgery and treatments.

I guess I don't understand the logic in this … An unhealthy person cannot hold down a job and ultimately pay taxes that supports numerous government programs among such that promote (for example) AIDS funding to third world countries.

We have an AIDS crisis here, but our government is apparently more involved in helping other countries with their AIDS problems instead? I know people who got AIDS from tainted blood transfusions. They did not get it from sharing needles or having unprotected sex with random AIDS infected people. With appropriate health care, they stand a good chance of continuing to work for some time … paying taxes, owning property (that also gets taxed) providing for their families who spend money on items that also reaps taxes. If you keep the nation's work force healthy, you keep people working and taking care of themselves. WHAT'S WRONG WITH THAT?

How many posting in here have ever been in a situation that they couldn't get health care benefits? No matter how much you look for a job that will allow you to earn the money to support yourself ... they will not offer benefits. They purposely will not offer you the hours it takes to qualify.

Here's how it works … A company has one position available ... 40 hours a week. They hire two employees for 20 hours a week on purpose so that neither qualifies for benefits ... voilà ... the employer has their needs met. The employee has nothing but the opportunity to look for a second job so they can at least put a roof over their head because you can't even do that with just 20 hours a week.

How many here have had to work two jobs to support yourself because you work for two such employers? How many have had to take a third part-time job just so you could earn the money it takes to buy "private" health care benefits?
 word nurd
Joined: 8/30/2007
Msg: 29
Bush Vetoes Kids Health Insurance Bill - Again
Posted: 12/14/2007 8:30:58 AM
The government has no and should have no obligation to forcibly try and make your life better.


(Emphasis above is mine)

WTF? Will jackbooted doctor/thugs break down your door, hold a gun to your head, and take your gall bladder with a rusty knife?

This argument is silly. Every other civilized nation in the world offers health care to each and every one of its citizens. While there is no "obligation" to do so, everyone seems pretty pleased, for the most part.

How would those citizens react if their governments suddenly stopped offering "free" (and it's most certainly not free, as taxes pay for health care) services? There would be revolution! The system here is profit-driven, and those without insurance indeed suffer.

I recently had a kidney stone. Easily one of the most painful experiences of my life. I had started a new job, but the insurance hadn't kicked in yet. Bad timing! Over $6,000 later, I'm going to be in debt for years, as I can't afford to pay it. Multiply that story a few millionfold, and you get a sense of the disastrous situation many people are in. How is this beneficial to the economy?

The leading cause of bankruptcy in the US is medical bills. It is an idea completely foreign to most people outside the US. People shouldn't be forced into deciding between necessities like medication or emergency surgeries and feeding their families, but it's a sad reality for far too many.

The US is (arguably) the greatest nation on Earth. When it comes to health care, however, we are a Third World Nation, at best. Our technology is second to none. Our practitioners are also amongst the best. But our lack of compassion for (and/or denial of services to) those without resources or insurance is shameful and pitiful, and is the reason we rate so poorly.

There simply should not be a two-tiered system for health care, of "haves" and "have-nots". Socialized medicine is far from perfect, but it is infinitely better than our current profit-driven one.
 designingwoman
Joined: 9/4/2005
Msg: 31
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Bush Vetoes Kids Health Insurance Bill - Again
Posted: 12/14/2007 5:10:18 PM
I will second slysterling. No one should be stuck with thousands of dollars worth of medical bills because of the greedy private insurance system. I say it's high time we Americans rose up and got the slimeballs fired once and for all, replacing our current, disastrous system with a REAL health care system that emphasizes HEALTHCARE not profits!!

One health "care" insurance CEO gets $1 billion a year. What I have to say about that is not suitable for publication in a family newspaper!!
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 32
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Bush Vetoes Kids Health Insurance Bill - Again
Posted: 12/14/2007 5:51:42 PM

The leading cause of bankruptcy in the US is medical bills.

People shouldn't be forced into deciding between necessities like medication or emergency surgeries and feeding their families, but it's a sad reality for far too many.
As a home health nurse, I took care of people who were in that position. Sometimes I'd buy them food so they could buy their prescriptions. Other times I'd buy their prescriptions so they could buy food or pay the electric bill.


No one should be stuck with thousands of dollars worth of medical bills because of the greedy private insurance system.
I got extremely ill about three years ago. I had to be hospitalized for two days in the "observation" section of the ER.

It cost me over $15,000.00 and I'm still paying it off. I made a deal with the hospital that as long as I pay at least $150.00 per month, they won't send my name to the collection agents. That gave a little over 8 years to pay.

Now imagine if that happened to a family that could not afford the $150.00 per month … not that I can. It means I'm always having to work overtime to get the money to take care of myself due to that bill and the other bills for the physicians that I also incurred.
 SpaceSquirrel
Joined: 4/22/2006
Msg: 33
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Bush Vetoes Kids Health Insurance Bill - Again
Posted: 12/15/2007 12:40:58 AM
LogisticEarth asks how we would pay for universal health care.

Take the money that currently goes to health insurance companies and put it into a system like Medicare instead. This could end up SAVING money even after including the 30+ million currently uninsured because Medicare is so much more efficient than most (if not all) private insurance companies (around 2% administrative costs vs. ~20%+ for private).

Personally, I would MUCH rather be giving my money to the federal government (who's reason for being is to help and protect the citizens) rather than an insurance company (who's reason for being is to make a profit in part by avoiding paying my claims whenever possible).

As for the S-CHIP veto, an additional reason that I haven't seen mentioned here is that the Democrats wanted it paid for in part by an increased tax on tobacco, and Bush didn't like that idea.
 EpisodeIV
Joined: 6/28/2006
Msg: 34
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Bush Vetoes Kids Health Insurance Bill - Again
Posted: 12/15/2007 12:15:41 PM
It's a matter of simple economics. The bill obviously doesn't put any or enough money in his or his friends' pockets. His reasons for vetoing the first bill were about things that weren't even in the bill.


...it moves our country's health care system in the wrong direction," Bush's statement said. "Ultimately, our nation's goal should be to move children who have no health insurance to private coverage....



...said he was willing to go higher as long as his conditions were met.


It's all about the almighty dollar and whether or not he is getting his and his friends share. Screw the kids.

Makes me wonder about his conversations with god. What god? The god of dollars?

Let's spend billions, no make it a trillion plus on a crusade... er, regime change in a part of the world where his family is making millions based on poor intelligence and fabricated or falsified "facts" 'cause it'll insure the cash flow to his own and his friends. Shortsighted though because if we don't spend at home and let or help the youngsters grow up to be soldiers our "empire" might get in jeopardy.
 designingwoman
Joined: 9/4/2005
Msg: 35
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Bush Vetoes Kids Health Insurance Bill - Again
Posted: 12/15/2007 8:01:53 PM
It's sad when a president things that Big Tobacco is more important than children's health care Children should take precedence over Big Business any time!!
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 36
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Bush Vetoes Kids Health Insurance Bill - Again
Posted: 12/15/2007 10:55:49 PM

... and adding to our ridiculous national debt.
Anyone who has ever lived with "socialized health care" knows good and well that everyone pays into it. ... ... and it will benefit the nation one hundredfold if we can keep our work force healthy ... keep the children growing into the work force healthy as well.

The same folks that oppose any kind of national health care plan here in the US though have no problem pumping funds into foreign countries for the health care of those people. Hmmm ... I guess they just don't seem to get the picture yet that "charity begins at home"?

What I find more insulting than the implications that it could never work here ... is that the bulk of the criticism appears to be coming from folks who are no doubt either still wet behind the ears ... or could never really know what it's like to be without health care benefits ... unless they grew up in a homeless shelter.

It never ceases to amaze me how people who have been coddled all their lives know so much about what it must be like to live for years without something as basic as health care benefits. These people have no idea what it must be like to have to foot the bill for expensive surgeries or say a child with cancer.

**How could they possibly know what it must be like to be forced to live out of your car because you have lost everything trying to pay your own or your child's medical bills?
**How could they possibly know what it's like to be strapped with a medical bill that one pays off longer than most people pay on their current late-model vehicle?
**How could they possibly know what it must be like to live at the homeless shelter or under a bridge ... pick food out of dumpsters and shower at the truck stop on the edge of town just to exist?

This situation does not come from lazy unproductive work ethics. My co-worker who lives out of her car is not lazy and unproductive ... does not expect hand-outs. She has no choice. She's a nurse and her daughter is just trying to finish high school so she too can go to work to help pay off the medical bills incurred when her little brother fell ill and died.
 Politically INCORRECT
Joined: 8/14/2007
Msg: 37
Bush Vetoes Kids Health Insurance Bill - Again
Posted: 12/16/2007 6:36:53 AM
Etourdi

You move your pieces into place to accomplish a goal that is many moves away.

Careful here....starting to sound like a conspiracy theorist...
....Based on the current set up and other finangling going on, I'd put money on it.
Be that as it may...minimum you'd have healthier illegals working , and of course a greater influx of illegals...but that won't matter for too much longer, as North America mutates into the United CanMex Union of god knows what. j/k...maybe.

~*~* Cotter for Prez~*~*~]
 Love_on_Fire
Joined: 11/18/2007
Msg: 38
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Bush Vetoes Kids Health Insurance Bill - Again
Posted: 12/16/2007 7:40:39 AM
God forgive him as i wont



I take it that comment was directed at Geaorge.W. Bush and what he did with this Vetoe?

I for one can't understand why he would do that. I don't remember Cheney telling him to do anything like that. So where on earth did he get information to do such a thing.??

Dick Cheney and his good budy Bush will be out of the white house in a years time.

Hopefully the next administration will be better in the discernment and judgments.
 exodusi1
Joined: 8/19/2006
Msg: 39
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Bush Vetoes Kids Health Insurance Bill - Again
Posted: 12/16/2007 3:20:03 PM
Healthcare IS a right in every other industrialized nation on the Planet. Only in America does greed outweigh the health of its citizens.

Sad that we have so many selfish people. It is a sad comentary on the future of our nation!
 exodusi1
Joined: 8/19/2006
Msg: 40
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Bush Vetoes Kids Health Insurance Bill - Again
Posted: 12/16/2007 3:40:10 PM
So what you ARE saying is that it is OK to let someone DIE because they don't have enough money to go to the doctor!

That IS what you ARE saying!

Let them Die!

I don't care, it will raise my taxes, so let them DIE!

Merry Christmas!
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 41
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Bush Vetoes Kids Health Insurance Bill - Again
Posted: 12/16/2007 4:05:33 PM

I am not interested in paying for the health care of someone who isn't RESPONSIBLE enough to have it before they decide to pro-create.
LMAO ...

As if having a national health care plan is only about providing health care for people who have children ... too funny.

Working single adults have no need for obtaining health care benefits ... only if they pro-create.

The single work force in the nation will be thrilled to hear that ...


We can make a system that works without doing something ridiculous like declaring the well-being of eact citizen to be the charge of the government.
Providing an opportunity for each and every citizen to have adequate health care does not make anyone a "charge of the government.

The citizens of Canada (for example) are not a "CHARGE" of the government any more than those here who are in a health care plan are a "charge" of that insurance company.

With a national health care plan in place though, no one would have to be concerned about pre-existing conditions. Often the pre-existing conditions are situations a person has no control over. My sister (for example) needs thyroid medication. She can't help it that she needs it. Nothing in the way she was leading her life influenced the fact that her thyroid slowed down. My other sister has Gastroesophageal Reflux Disease (G.E.R.D.) and requires medication for that so the lining in her esophagus won't get eaten up with stomach acid. Nothing in the way she was leading her life influenced the fact that she has that problem.

Both are gainfully employed and pay into a health care plan. Both have changed employers over the years to better their earning ability ... mostly because they went back to school and earned higher degrees ... changed jobs to use their education.

One of their daughters has diabetes ... has had it since she was quite young. She did nothing to contribute to that situation yet she is shut out of getting any benefits from health insurance companies as it is viewed as a "pre-existing" condition. DUH ... she's had it since she was 7 years old.

Insurance companies however can refuse to pay for trips to the doctor related to both problems they deem "pre-existing" and they also refuse to pay for medications. A national health care plan would not discriminate against them. With appropriate medical care, they would continue to be healthy, continue to work, continue to pay taxes ...

None of them are looking for a HANDOUT ... none are looking for anything for FREE ... none are looking for the government to take care of them or to become a CHARGE of the government.

All they want (as do most of us) is the opportunity to be insured with a health care plan that will not discriminate against them.


Aside from that, if someone has a chronic disease, etc. then yes. Death is an inevitability.
WOW ... that speaks volumes. If your parents or family members ever get a chronic disease ... I challenge you to stand by and do nothing and just watch them die. WOW ... now that is one caring individual!!! If you ever have a family ... lets hope your wife or child never gets sick. I can picture it now ... you standing over them as they lay there ... "Too bad you got sick, you just need to die. Death is an inevitability ... guess your time has come."

If that is the mindset behind all who oppose a national health plan, then this nation is in a whole H3ll of a lot of trouble. OMG ... a society of people growing up who don't care about anyone but themself.

WOW ... that's astounding that someone could be so uncaring.
 exodusi1
Joined: 8/19/2006
Msg: 42
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Bush Vetoes Kids Health Insurance Bill - Again
Posted: 12/16/2007 4:06:32 PM
No, that't NOT the way the world works. IN EVERY OTHER INDUSTRIALIZED NATION IT DOESN'T!

Your greed is apalling! But your honesty is at least commendable.

We already have a national healthcare system. It is called bankruptcy. Healthcare costs are the number one cause of bankruptcy. You pay for that with higher fees, costs, higher medical costs, the economy suffers because small businesses have costs written off. You pay, you are just ignorant of where the money comes from.
 exodusi1
Joined: 8/19/2006
Msg: 43
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Bush Vetoes Kids Health Insurance Bill - Again
Posted: 12/16/2007 4:40:56 PM
that's why it is so important for more people to become educated and vote, so we can erase that kind of greed. And yes, it is greed. But the irony is your greed doesn't save you any money. People suffer without reason, because your medical costs are increased to pay for those who can't pay. So you pay anyway, you just don't do it efficiently.

Instead of someone going to a GP, they go to an ER. They can't get into a clinic without paying, but the ER has to take them.

Unfortunately, that kind of abject greed causes 18,000 American deaths each year, because the preventative medicine that could have saved their lives didn't.

That kind of ignorance and greed Kills 6 times as many Americans each year as the terrorists on 9/11 did. So that greed and selfish behavior is FAR worse than the terrorists that we are supposed to be so afraid of.

Ironic, isn't it?
 exodusi1
Joined: 8/19/2006
Msg: 44
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Bush Vetoes Kids Health Insurance Bill - Again
Posted: 12/16/2007 5:18:41 PM
Yeah, right!

That's why our system ranks 42 in the WORLD!

47,000,000 Americans don't have coverage.

Another 50,000,000 + don't have adequate coverage.

Your solution, let them go to te ER, brilliant, then they can just ruin their credit, and hope that they received treatment in time.

I am so sick of that type of attitude. I'm glad I don't associate with people like that in my life!
 exodusi1
Joined: 8/19/2006
Msg: 45
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Bush Vetoes Kids Health Insurance Bill - Again
Posted: 12/16/2007 6:18:22 PM
That's fine. I know I come across as being pretentious. I am altruistic. But I am firm in my beliefs. UHC will cost me more money, because I HAVE great healthcare. I work for an exceptional company. I love my job and am compensated well with both income and benefits.

My push is because it is what is right, not what is right for me. So, I am allowed to be pretentious, because I hold the high moral ground.

No, I don't associate at all with greedy, selfish or racist people. If I learn that someone I know portrays those character traits, I stop associating with them. My life is compiled of a finite number of minutes on this planet. Those minute are too precious to be wasted on people lacking in character.
 designingwoman
Joined: 9/4/2005
Msg: 46
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Bush Vetoes Kids Health Insurance Bill - Again
Posted: 12/16/2007 7:24:24 PM
I will give Exodus backup here as I agree fully with his generous, kindhearted, caring spirit. It saddens me to see that others only care about themselves and not about the well being of other people on this Earth. I think the private health care system is a sham and should be eliminated for the benefit of EVERYONE, rich and poor alike. Everybody would benefit from having a good universal health care system in our country to take care of ALL of us. I would like to see more of a "We're in it together!" attitude among Americans. That would make our country much stronger and our nation would stand taller in the global community by having a more unified approach.

I wish there were MORE people like Exodus in our nation who care very much about his fellow citizens. Cheers, Exodus!
 exodusi1
Joined: 8/19/2006
Msg: 47
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Bush Vetoes Kids Health Insurance Bill - Again
Posted: 12/17/2007 5:04:25 AM
DW, thanks for the kind words.

LE;

You are not one of those I was talking about.

Some of my best friends, including my two best friends are Republicans. They are very religious and that has shaped their political awareness. They are very good people, who do not understand just how evil the politics of the neocons is. They are true conservatives in the Goldwater, Stockdale, Ike mold. Those men are long gone as is their integrity.

what if I told you that a national healthcare system would be, in the long run, far less expensive? 1/3 of the current costs goes to insuranc companies. Billions in profit goes to a handful for your care. The majority of bankruptcies are due to medical bills. Thus, UHC will eliminate the majority of bankruptcies. That alone will stimulate our economy. Approximately 18,000 fewer Americans will die each year due to lack of coverage. That is an overwhelming benefit to society, as our citizenry will be healthier and more productive. Fewer families without a breadwinner means fewer people on welfare. The benefits of UHC have been well substantiated by the rest of the industrialized world. Ask someone from Canada, Sweeden, Finland, England, France or Germany if they want to eliminate their UHC. It also reduces the overall burden, especially on smaller companies, as they no longer have the expense to take care of their employees. What about those million plus Wal Mart workers? They don't get healthcare, despite working their @$$es off? Yet they work for one of the largest corporations in the world. UHC is a way of preserving our nations populace and protecting them from the avarace that takes 18,000 of them each year.
 Politically INCORRECT
Joined: 8/14/2007
Msg: 48
Bush Vetoes Kids Health Insurance Bill - Again
Posted: 12/17/2007 5:52:46 AM

“He who has health, has hope. And he who has hope, has everything.”

Tell that to :

One of their daughters has diabetes ... has had it since she was quite young. She did nothing to contribute to that situation yet she is shut out of getting any benefits from health insurance companies as it is viewed as a "pre-existing" condition. DUH ... she's had it since she was 7 years old.

She hasn't a hope in Hell under the US system...

Strange...where is the 'Humanity' in that?

How anyone can defend a system that is so corrupt? Unimaginable...
It must be true, "Ignorance is bliss."

A system that "doles" out health care on the basis of whom is the Lowest Risk?...lol What a way to line the account. ..and it's Legal! People are kept deliberately blinded and stupid about the machination of "health care"...tragic. American Ignorance is what makes it possible...lol...sad.

50 000 000 Americans, a prayer is all they've got in the "great" USA...pardon the sarcasm...but there is simply nothing great about the US. Even less as time marches on...

Fortunately some are wiping the fog from their eyes, and recognizing that feeding on the entrails of their children is a high price to pay...for what?
 Seavoyage
Joined: 1/18/2007
Msg: 49
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Bush Vetoes Kids Health Insurance Bill - Again
Posted: 12/17/2007 6:28:23 AM
Part of the problem is that the government cannot afford this considering the huge cost of the War In Iraq. That war has been proven to be extremely costly. I personally would like to see more spending on health care, a roll back of the tax cuts (but that is tough during a recession), which would be used to pay the deficit as well; I definitely would like to see the troops out of Iraq by mid 2009 or at least the vast majority of them (i.e. no more than 50,000 soldiers in Iraq at that time).
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 50
Bush Vetoes Kids Health Insurance Bill - Again
Posted: 12/17/2007 2:35:35 PM
You've bought a bill of goods there buddy. The US spends far more per capita than any other nation on earth on healthcare. And you have mediocre results for the money. By any standard your healthcare is middling at best. You're paying Cadillac prices for K Car product.
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